Correcting a Stranger's Parenting Tactics? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 05:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by natensarah
And since the title of this thread is, "CORRECTING A STRANGER'S PARENTING TACTICS," not "Supporting another mom having a hard time with her child," I do think that was the original intent of the OP.
Word. I mean.. "correcting?" That's the most holier-than-thou spew I've ever heard. It takes a special kind of person to think she's so great she can correct others in something like parenting. I think it's time to put down the parenting manual and get some fresh air!
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#92 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SunRayeMomi

Oh this is funny I'm just catching this... this kind of reminds me of that little thread that you posted about having a hospital birth similar to a homebirth. When you got replies that you didn't exactly agree with, you started swearing at people. Of all the tacky things... no wonder the thread was deleted. Here you are asking for advice and ideas, and then you shun it when you don't get, to quote you, "what you really want to hear"

This is a commune for like-minded people or at least those that are willing to accept th opinions of others. I never said I didn't accept any of the replies, I mean sheesh all I was trying to do was get a conversationg going, not approval. If you can't accept others without berating them, then why post?

If I recall correctly, I called someone on the ugliness she displayed when I had asked a simple question. I didn't mind hearing something like,"Well, a hospital birth really can't be like a homebirth and here's why...". The person I called on was simply being hateful. That's what got me going. She *was*being a nasty negative you-know-what. FWIW, I did get some wonderful advice.
The title of this thread( "Correcting the parenting tactics of others....") says, to me anyway, that you-the OP-consider your parenting tactics to be superior to others. The trouble with that line of thinking is that while you and I and a million other parents might agree that GD is the way to go, not everyone will embrace that idea. I truly think the best way to influence others is to lead by example.
How would you feel if you were trying to practice GD and your kids just weren't buying into it...when all of a sudden someone stops and says,"Why don't you smack your child and tell him to shut up?" You'd be horrified,right? Maybe embarrassed. In shock? This person doesn't know you or your values or your standards. This person doesn't know that, for you, spanking is not an option. And yet he feels compelled to tell you how to parent.
Do you see the point I am making now?
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#93 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by boston
Word. I mean.. "correcting?" That's the most holier-than-thou spew I've ever heard. It takes a special kind of person to think she's so great she can correct others in something like parenting. I think it's time to put down the parenting manual and get some fresh air!

ITA. I mean-how presumptive of someone to swoop down and correct the parenting skills of someone she doesn't even know?????
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#94 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by natensarah
Evaluating other people's parenting, IMO, only leads to competition, like who can be the better mother and which way is the right way. .
And aren't we, as mothers and as women, competitive enough as it is?
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#95 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 06:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loverlaydown
And aren't we, as mothers and as women, competitive enough as it is?
Oh, hell yeah!

~Nay

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#96 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 06:30 PM
 
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I think it's interesting that we feel inhibited about intervening on behalf of a child who is experiencing some emotional belittling or abuse.
I don't think a parent has a right to belittle/abuse a child. To say it's the parent's right to make mistakes with her child implies ownership of her child somehow. I am uncomfortable with that.

There are 4 child advocacy articles here (half-way down page) on Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place:

http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html

One article addresses whether it is "our business" or not and another asks "one can we do?". The last two are great stories of interventions.

P.S. I also realize that I am operating on a opinion that belittling is abusive...
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#97 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 06:38 PM
 
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I am also guessing that it troubled the OP to see a child treated that way. Perhaps she wasn't trying to "correct" or tear apart the mama as much as support the child.
I think I want to hear more of her intent. Was she wanting to help rather than "correct"?
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#98 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 06:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ahappymel
I think it's interesting that we feel inhibited about intervening on behalf of a child who is experiencing some emotional belittling or abuse.
I don't think a parent has a right to belittle/abuse a child. To say it's the parent's right to make mistakes with her child implies ownership of her child somehow. I am uncomfortable with that.

There are 4 child advocacy articles here (half-way down page) on Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place:

http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html

One article addresses whether it is "our business" or not and another asks "one can we do?". The last two are great stories of interventions.

P.S. I also realize that I am operating on a opinion that belittling is abusive...
Thanks for the links!

~Nay

Reneé, 34 year old mom to Antonin 8/04 and Arianna 9/06  (6 weeks) 5/08. Married to Matt since 6/03 .  
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#99 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ahappymel
I think it's interesting that we feel inhibited about intervening on behalf of a child who is experiencing some emotional belittling or abuse.
I don't think a parent has a right to belittle/abuse a child. To say it's the parent's right to make mistakes with her child implies ownership of her child somehow. I am uncomfortable with that.

There are 4 child advocacy articles here (half-way down page) on Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place:

http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html

One article addresses whether it is "our business" or not and another asks "one can we do?". The last two are great stories of interventions.

P.S. I also realize that I am operating on a opinion that belittling is abusive...
Hi.I read the articles and they were sad..but i think that the content of those articles went beyond anything the OP is talking about. I think that we all have varying ideas as to what "belittling" and "abuse" is...For example, some people might view the phrase "Hurry up!"(when spoken to a child) to be belittling and abusive, while other parents may not-kwim?
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#100 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 07:21 PM
 
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so loverlaydown, can you re-read the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunRayeMomi
I was at DD's soccer game and there was a couple there whose son is on dd's team, but who also has a 2-3 year old dd who comes to watch the game with mom and dad. Dad is assistant coach so he is off on the sidelines, and I talk casually to mom and her dd (who happens to look a lot like mine with bright blonde hair ) Anyway hers is usually quite well behaved but I think she was getting bored at this game. For some reason she hit mom and was whining, etc. Mom then proceeded to use many tactics that I myself have found ineffective, including:

"Apologize to me right now!"
"No, go sit in your own chair I don't want you on my lap anymore"
"If you don't apologize you can't go to the cider mill after the game with us"
"If you don't stop yelling I'm taking you to the car!"
"If you don't apologize right now I'm telling your dad!" (what?!)
Meanwhile the child was begging her mom to let her say something....but mom said "Be quiet right now, no I don't want to hear what you have to say"
"I am going to count to three...."
and so on for like 15 minutes, and I could tell that mom was getting embarrassed and just wanted the girl to please SHUTUP! as if she was on the brink of screaming at her, and the whole time I just wanted to offer a polite and sincere suggestion SOOOOOO badly, because I have used these lines before and have since found ways that work better for us. But that would be totally inappropriate right, since unsolicited advice is never welcome, is it? It was torture having to listen to this!
So the dd gets mom to calm down enough ( ) and says "Mommy, please can I say something?" which she had been trying to do the whole time and mom says "WHAT?" "Sorry mama" and the mom had the nerve to say.... "sorry for what....?" I think this mom could have benefitted from some advice from someone (but I didn't have the guts to give it). Just to show her that there are ways to deal without using empty threats.
and use THIS EXAMPLE? this is more than "hurry up". in THIS case, is it enough? do you see this as warranting anything? your original mantra was to mind your own business no matter what...now you seem to be softening that a little bit...so with that new softness, what do you think?
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#101 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 07:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loverlaydown
I think that we all have varying ideas as to what "belittling" and "abuse" is...For example, some people might view the phrase "Hurry up!"(when spoken to a child) to be belittling and abusive, while other parents may not-kwim?
:

I've seen the term "abuse" used quite loosely.

TripMom . . . . . loving mom : to DS (7) and BBG (4.5)
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#102 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 08:09 PM
 
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I personally would not have said anything because i have had days with my kids where i was just exhasperated on what to do with them b/c my normal disapline was just not working (I use the 123 magic tactics) sometimes my kids are just having an of day too. unless i see someone abusing their childeren i don't intervene no matter how mch i would like to. and believe me sometimes i really want to say something! so i think did the right thing in that situation. I am sorry for some of the things ppl r saying to u and i am not trying to be rude in anyway.
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#103 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 08:30 PM
 
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Some might feel that it is inappropriate and disrepectful to talk to a child in a belittling and threatening way while others view it as emotional abuse.
I feel that if it ultimately wears down and destroys a child's self-esteem it is abusive.
I realize that not everyone feels this way. Rather than focus on how we each define abuse as parents, let's look at the effects on the children. That gives us a clearer picture of what cuts and what builds.
I know we all have bad days but those are especially the days when some gently intervention and empathy helps the most. I don't like being "corrected" or chastised by a stranger, but as article 2 of the link I previously posted pointed out, there are ways to offer intervention that helps both parent and child.
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#104 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 08:39 PM
 
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I agree that we don't want to promote "competitiveness" among moms...but this is really about some empathy and gently intervention when another mom is exasperated and a child is being humiliated and put-down/pushed-away.
I see that as helping in a more of a tribal way than competition.
I know the other person might not take it that way, but perhaps they might...
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#105 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natensarah
And since the title of this thread is, "CORRECTING A STRANGER'S PARENTING TACTICS," not "Supporting another mom having a hard time with her child," I do think that was the original intent of the OP.


Word. I mean.. "correcting?" That's the most holier-than-thou spew I've ever heard. It takes a special kind of person to think she's so great she can correct others in something like parenting. I think it's time to put down the parenting manual and get some fresh air!
Whoa whoa whoa people, the title is just intended to give you an idea of what the post may be about.... Stop taking it so literally! I intended this post as a DISCUSSION, so SETTLE DOWN! I truly hope you aren't inadvertantly assuming I think that I am "holier-than-thou" because I've said it it seems like a MILLION times that this is a DISCUSSION, not me searching for absolution! SHEESH!

~Sara, WAHSingMomi to girls R and AV, S.O.A.R. Scout Leader and Homeschooling In Detroit Blogger

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#106 of 129 Old 10-26-2005, 10:33 PM
 
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May I ask you, SunRayeMomi, would you tell me why you wanted to intervene?
It seems some posters are assuming that you were being righteous whereas I am assuming you were in protective/empathetic mode.
If you can tell us, I think it would clarify a lot.
Why did you want to intervene?
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#107 of 129 Old 10-27-2005, 01:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Hazelnut
Also, I'm guessing we have all experienced people giving us advice, even if we're doing something "right." I've been told to let my child cry more hundreds of millions of times, it seems. So it's not like you have to really screw up to hear the unsolicited advice that makes some of us cringe. This latter instance of course doesn't apply to the op's situation, but I think it's a good example of how prevalent advising parents is, and why it's not always welcome or helpful.
Oh absolutely. But there's no reason why you can't turn the tables on the well-meaning but obviously unenlightened person and explain some GD to them while you're both there having conversation.

I must not have a mommy microscope. I was running while pushing the buggy at wal*mart tonight. Ds thought it was a blast. (Don't worry--the aisle was empty)

~Nay

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#108 of 129 Old 10-27-2005, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Ahappymel
May I ask you, SunRayeMomi, would you tell me why you wanted to intervene?
Hello

Well, I think I've answered this question quite a few times, but I will again because maybe you didn't read all the posts. I know the other posters did though, since they have been replying to this thread since it's beginning Why they don't believe my replies is beyond me. They took everything I said in the first post quite seriously, but after that they stopped listening. This post was only intended to start a discussion. That's it. It seems if people will take every word I use personally, next time I post a topic I should PM everyone on MDC first to make sure they agree with my choice of words, that way no one will be confused or take them different than I had intended....? I dunno.... I'm kind of exhausted with this.

As for your question, I was just asking everyone here to share their stories or opinions of situations similar to this that they have been in. I know most people have been at the store or somewhere and either had someone come up to them during their child's tantrum, or wanted to offer support for someone else. And it looks I was right: I'm not the only one out there who feels funny when they see this going on. I didn't want to correct her, but I do wish there was a polite way to help a mom out in a sit like this. I got a lot of good ideas, but some people think there is a way and some people don't. Mostly I tend to just keep my opinions to myself (to err on the side of politeness). I post my opinions here to get them off my chest. KWIM?

When I posted "correcting..." I didn't think the term would be picked apart. In fact, if you think about it, no one did pick it apart until way into the discussion. So why now? I am feeling like I am being picked apart. That's not fair, I didn't attack anyone in my OP so why do they attack me? Am I being oversensitive? I am glad for the discussion. But I guess this is what happens when a person introduces a thought-provoking subject. They get slammed

~Sara, WAHSingMomi to girls R and AV, S.O.A.R. Scout Leader and Homeschooling In Detroit Blogger

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#109 of 129 Old 10-27-2005, 06:35 PM
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I've returned this thread for discussion. I want to remind everyone that:

1. harsh, attacking, adversarial posting is inappropriate
2. calling a member "troll" or trollish is inappropriate
3. posting in a personally pointed manner, discussing the individual rather than the topic, is inappropriate.

Some posts will be removed if not edited.


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#110 of 129 Old 10-27-2005, 07:38 PM
 
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I keep thinking about this thread, and I'm glad it's back because I think this is an important topic.

I think that when we see someone doing something that is harming, or is likely to harm, another person we might have an obligation to speak up-to intervene on behalf of that person. If we all went around just minding our own business, nothing in this world would ever change and it would remain just as violent as ever.

That said, I think we also have an obligation to keep a few things in mind as we speak up (assuming the situation is not an emergency, like an obvious beating, but rather a gray area-what many would see as a matter of parenting styles or choices). I think we have an obligation to be aware of the fact that we very rarely know the whole story-there's usually plenty of information we don't know regarding the people involved and their circumstances. I think we have an obligation to attempt to understand why the person we're about to speak to may be doing what they're doing-for the simple reason that a problem cannot be solved until we understand what is causing it. We have an obligation to remember that the person we are about to speak to is more than the sum of their (perceived) faults, that they are in fact fully human and deserving of the respect that simply being human demands. We have an obligation to remember that we cannot change a person's parenting, and the lifetime of learning and cultural messages that created it, in a single encounter. (In fact, all we can do is be a positive influence in some way-we can't change anyone else.) We need to remember that though we believe fervently in something, our beliefs and ways of doing things may not be the only correct ways or beliefs even when we can't imagine how this could be. We don't know everything.

(edited for clarity) I think that if we want to help others, the best way to do it is to cultivate within ourselves real, sincere compassion for our fellow parents. To cutivate within ourselves the willingness to offer others sincere kindness and to cultivate the willingness to offer real help in a sincere and humble manner when we see a need. A hand carrying things, a kind word of encouragement or sympathy-from the heart, one human being to another.

I will end my thoughts here with my favorite quote: "When you plant lettuce, if it does not grow well, you don't blame the lettuce. You look into the reasons it is not doing well. It may need fertilizer, or more water, or less sun. You never blame the lettuce. Yet if we have problems with our friends or our family, we blame the other person. But if we know how to take care of them, they will grow well, like lettuce. Blaming has no positive effect at all, nor does trying to persuade using reason and arguments. That is my experience. No blame, no reasoning, no argument, just understanding. If you understand, and you show that you understand, you can love, and the situation will change."-Thich Nhat Hanh
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#111 of 129 Old 10-28-2005, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've returned this thread for discussion.

Thanks and to everyone:

~Sara, WAHSingMomi to girls R and AV, S.O.A.R. Scout Leader and Homeschooling In Detroit Blogger

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#112 of 129 Old 10-29-2005, 03:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SunRayeMomi
When I posted "correcting..." I didn't think the term would be picked apart. In fact, if you think about it, no one did pick it apart until way into the discussion. So why now? I am feeling like I am being picked apart. That's not fair, I didn't attack anyone in my OP so why do they attack me? Am I being oversensitive? I am glad for the discussion. But I guess this is what happens when a person introduces a thought-provoking subject. They get slammed
Sara, I'm sorry if my post offended you. But please don't take it personally! I was simply stating MY reaction to what you wrote. I don't know you, I may not have gotten your full tone and intention, and I meant no offense. And you did introduce a thought-provoking subject, which I'm glad you did. Thanks!

Mommy to kids

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#113 of 129 Old 10-29-2005, 04:55 PM
 
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This is a very interesting discussion. It's so hard to know where "the line" is between being supportive vs criticizing... especially when you don't agree with the parenting style.
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#114 of 129 Old 10-29-2005, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by natensarah
Sara, I'm sorry if my post offended you. But please don't take it personally! I was simply stating MY reaction to what you wrote. I don't know you, I may not have gotten your full tone and intention, and I meant no offense. And you did introduce a thought-provoking subject, which I'm glad you did. Thanks!

no problem, I think the next post after yours which called my wording "holier-than-thou-spew" offended me much more than your just bringing it to the table.

~Sara, WAHSingMomi to girls R and AV, S.O.A.R. Scout Leader and Homeschooling In Detroit Blogger

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#115 of 129 Old 10-29-2005, 10:19 PM
 
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my .02:


i think that if you're cringing with the need to do something the best thing to do is offer support to the mother. Like a pp or the op said - i can't remember who - she may have just been having one of those days. I'd have given the mom a meek smile that said something like "i've been in your shoes before" - if she opens up for dialogue in response to that implied invitation, then go for it.

[nak, btw]
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#116 of 129 Old 10-29-2005, 10:34 PM
 
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Ok, I have to ask what does "nak" mean? I have tried guessing for days now.

Thanks immensely.

Curious,

Pat

I have a blog.
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#117 of 129 Old 10-30-2005, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Nursing At Keyboard, Pat

~Sara, WAHSingMomi to girls R and AV, S.O.A.R. Scout Leader and Homeschooling In Detroit Blogger

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#118 of 129 Old 10-30-2005, 12:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunRayeMomi
Has anyone felt compelled to offer advice to a stranger?
Yes, but only about babywearing!

Quote:
How does it make you feel when you see something like this go down right next to you? Have you ever considered offering advice and why?
When I was a newer mom (when DD1 was under a year), I thought such situations were horrible, and never could understand how parents could treat a DC (or anyone) like that.

Fast forward to having 2 children . . .now I still feel horrible in those situations, and even more so, because I know I've had moments like that with MY DC. . . .and it pains me to see what the receiving end looks like! I use those moments as reminders and teaching moments-- for myself. I think what pps said about starting a conversation, not even about discipline-- just something to help the mom regain herself, would REALLY help me if I were the mom. That's what I'm going to aim for in that situation.

 2/02, 4/05, 2/07, 11/09, and EDD 12/25/11 wave.gif

 

 

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#119 of 129 Old 10-30-2005, 05:32 AM
 
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I am not sure there is any way to offer advice without it being transparent. I know if I had been the mom having the off day (so very very many days that is me....) any attempt by a stranger, aquaintance, or someone closer would have only added to my stress and embarassment. Maybe it is just me, but particularly if someone tried to 'diffuse' by interacting with my child I would be livid, as I would interpret that as the person trying to 'save' my child from me- not allowed in my book.

And changing roles here, if I was the person witnessing the ineffective parenting, I would just physically remove myself from the area, particularly if it was a situation and/or reactions by the other adult and/or child that I did not want my own children witness to. They learn so much by example! Most especially the undesireable behaviors I myself have learned that nobody cares- people are going to do it their way, and nothing I am going to say will ever change their mind. And even that most times being a good example only makes people think I am condemning *their* lifestyle by the way I live my own
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#120 of 129 Old 10-30-2005, 11:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierratahoe
I'd have only added to my stress and embarassment. Maybe it is just me, but particularly if someone tried to 'diffuse' by interacting with my child I would be livid, as I would interpret that as the person trying to 'save' my child from me- not allowed in my book.
I wouldn't like someone to interact with my child either, in that situation. I love it when someone interacts with ME, though, to diffuse the situation.

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