bf wants to spank, I absolutely don't - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have tried to show him countless articles about why spanking is bad and alternative methods of discipline, he stands firm on spanking. He was spanked, and no he didn't turn out good, nor did any of his siblings (3 others). Is there any hope of convincing him? What will I do?
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#2 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 03:03 AM
 
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headed for bed, forgive the short post:

here is a link I happened to have bookmarked
http://www.nospank.net/stang2.htm

The argument that works most often for me is to ask if they would spank an elderly family member... that often will get them thinking.

good luck

-Angela
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#3 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 03:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrayn
I have tried to show him countless articles about why spanking is bad and alternative methods of discipline, he stands firm on spanking. He was spanked, and no he didn't turn out good, nor did any of his siblings (3 others). Is there any hope of convincing him? What will I do?
Keep working on him till the cows come home or resign yourself to never leaving the child alone with him.
I would also tell him that until he can provide as much documented evidence supporing spanking as you can provide against it, there will be no discussion and no spanking.
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#4 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 03:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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he makes fun of me b/c "I learn to parent from the internet" and he wants to go by his "instincts"
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#5 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 03:26 AM
 
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My Dh gave me that excuse once. I managed to help him see that an anger reaction is NOT the same as an instinct. Hitting children is not a human instinct it is learned bahavior. He should know.
In my house we have a zero tolerance for hitting. Including dh and I. I made it abundantly clear that in my opinion spanking is a deal breaker. HE may be my love and my soulmate, and even the father of my child. But I would protect my children with my life. WE are very fortunate that he was convinced because it would have been a HUGE issue. And Iwould really have been screwed to be a single mom of 4! Geez.
Actually interestingly enough. My research did not change his mind. He spanked DS once. He even told me he did, and I went out and got all the mandatory reading material.
I found out later that the way he felt after he spanked our son (on his thickly cloth diapered bottom, who didnt even notice) was so horrible that he knew then he would never do it again. It wasnt instinctive after all. It just felt so so WRONG. WE had had a good fight about it and everything, and I could have saved my breath.
Good luck to you, and stand firm,
Joline

ps. and Oh, I would suggest that you stop using the word "spank" and just use "hit" in all your discussions on the subject. The word itself "spank" implies that hitting is somehow different, ok and justifiable with a child. like 'spankign' is ok but 'hitting' is not. The two words imply such different things in our brains. Make it clear that all spanking is HITTING. And it is not ok just because it is a child.
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#6 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 03:50 AM
 
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How old is your child?
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#7 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 04:07 AM
 
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I just looked at your photos and wondered how anyone could want to hit something as sweet as that. No one deserves to be hit, no one. Sorry I don't have any concrete advice. I agree with Joline, it's hitting and it's not ok. If dh hit me I'd be out, why wouldn't I do the same for my child?

Mama to 3:
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#8 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 12:35 PM
 
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Moved to Gentle Discipline.

anna kiss partner to jon radical mama to aleks (8/02) and bastian (5/05)
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#9 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 12:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrayn
he makes fun of me b/c "I learn to parent from the internet" and he wants to go by his "instincts"
Yeah, this is the biggest issue I have when people say 'Follow your instincts"--as if all instincts make sense.

The pix in your sig shows an infant. Your bf can't possibly be thinking about spanking that gorgeous baby. Unless he decides to follow *your* instincts, I'd never leave her alone with him.

Is he her Dad? I mean it's easier to blow him off if he isn't.
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#10 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jrayn
He was spanked, and no he didn't turn out good,
If he didn't turn out well, why are you with him?

dar

 
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#11 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 02:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UUMom
Yeah, this is the biggest issue I have when people say 'Follow your instincts"--as if all instincts make sense.
That. And the reality is that what most people call "instinct" is actually learned behavior from years of being mistreated by their own parents.

Ask him how much research he'd do before buying a car... or a stereo. He should be willing to do at least as much on learning how to parent a child.

I agree with the person who said to call it "hitting" when you talk with him about it. "Spanking" is a comfort word that people use to separate it from what it actually is.

If ds' dad and I were still together, I can honestly say that hitting my child would be a dealbreaker. My child deserves the same protection that I do, and I would never stay where someone was hitting me.
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#12 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dar
If he didn't turn out well, why are you with him?

dar


That's what I was wondering too.
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#13 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 04:34 PM
 
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People are not for hitting and children are people too.

Here is a recent thread with a woman in your shoes about a boyfriend with the same opinion:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=358868


Best wishes,

Pat

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#14 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 06:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dragonfly
That. And the reality is that what most people call "instinct" is actually learned behavior from years of being mistreated by their own parents.
ita
its very hard to separate "instinct" from the ideas that are around you all the time- other parents talking, how we were parented, magazines, books, even comments from our non-parent friends. ykwim.

"too much" education is NOT a problem.

Sorry, no real advice yet- I'm thinking though

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

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#15 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 11:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by johub
I made it abundantly clear that in my opinion spanking is a deal breaker. HE may be my love and my soulmate, and even the father of my child. But I would protect my children with my life.

ps. and Oh, I would suggest that you stop using the word "spank" and just use "hit" in all your discussions on the subject. The word itself "spank" implies that hitting is somehow different, ok and justifiable with a child. like 'spankign' is ok but 'hitting' is not. The two words imply such different things in our brains. Make it clear that all spanking is HITTING. And it is not ok just because it is a child.
Joline--I told DH before we got married that there were certain parenting items that were not negotiable and that if he could not live with them, then we were not going to be together. Spanking was way up there. He could not imagine raising kids without striking them, but he said he was willing to try. Now he never even thinks to harm them.

And I agree with wording. I am gearing up for a big debate a preschool about our parent ed library and whether to include pro-spanking books. In evereything I have prepared, I use either "hit" or "strike". People try to use spank to somehow lessen the impact (both literally and figuratively, I think).

OP- If someone is going to hit your kids AND is not willing to change, you don't need to be with that person. Your kids DEFINITELY do not need you to be with that person.
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#16 of 27 Old 10-30-2005, 11:24 PM
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I would make it crystal clear that you consider hitting your child at least as bad as if he were planning to hit you, if not far worse than this because your *baby* is so defenseless against him. GRRRRRRRRR. I wonder what recourse you have for filing assault charges?

Would letting him know that spanking is so repulsive and ineffective and cruel that it is illegal in some parts of the world help to change his opinion at all?
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#17 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Dar
If he didn't turn out well, why are you with him?

dar
As far as how he didn't turn out good, he has and still does handle many issues agressively, most recently a young man around 20 was gocarting on our street and spun out in our drive way, he decided to tell this guy he would fight that guy and anyone he wanted to bring along. He is not the most happy person either, he also has good points and that is why I have stayed with him, he's funny, we have common interests things like that but honestly we were going to break up until we found out I was pregnant, now we are trying to make it work. We discuss discipline methods b/c I am so anti-spank and his niece is spanked I told him that I absolutely don't want that and that is how this topic has been since my dd was a few months old. Everyone is right that I shouldn't put up with my child being hit absolutely.
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#18 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 01:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Dal
I would make it crystal clear that you consider hitting your child at least as bad as if he were planning to hit you, if not far worse than this because your *baby* is so defenseless against him. GRRRRRRRRR. I wonder what recourse you have for filing assault charges?

Would letting him know that spanking is so repulsive and ineffective and cruel that it is illegal in some parts of the world help to change his opinion at all?
I heard that if you call the police about assault charges, when it involves a mother and child, the child will be taken away by dcf for the child's safety....
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#19 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 01:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jrayn
I heard that if you call the police about assault charges, when it involves a mother and child, the child will be taken away by dcf for the child's safety....

I dont really knwo what is true for your state. But once when my dd was maybe 3 years old and was spending the night with her biological father and stepmom, they got in a physical fight and the police were called. He was taken to jail on assault charges. The police called my house to have someone come and get my dd. No cps people were involved as a result of a child being there.
I knwo it is a different scenario. If he lived with you and hit the child and you called the police due to teh assault. They would certainly want to make sure you were not living there with the child when he got out of jail.
But of course you wouldnt be.

Joline
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#20 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 02:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jrayn
I have tried to show him countless articles about why spanking is bad and alternative methods of discipline, he stands firm on spanking. He was spanked, and no he didn't turn out good, nor did any of his siblings (3 others). Is there any hope of convincing him? What will I do?
Sometimes in relationships there are non negotiable points. For me, hitting my child is not open for negotiation or compromise. We don't hit. Period. We don't hit our pets, our friends or each other. Including children. If my dh insisted on spanking ds, it would become such a source of distress for me I know that eventually our relationship would dissolve. Spanking is THAT big of a deal to me. So isn't yelling, name calling and domineering parenting.

I'm puzzled though. Aren't you half the equation? Doesn't your input count on how to raise your dd? Not only does it seem like your bf is not putting himself in your dd's shoes, it appears he's disregarding your feelings and values as well. Hitting a child is only one way of teaching them how to manuever through this world. There are lots of options other than hitting. Inflicting physical pain as a way to teach someone to listen to you, is really quite absurd IMO. Hitting kids only teaches them to be afraid of you and to NOT do things that would cause them harm. It doesn't teach them confidence or how to choose the right way for themselves.

Imagine if your boss hit you evertime you were late? I know, that sounds far fetched. (Of course your boss wouldn't hit you, because that would be assault.) But what if he wasn't beating you, but just grabbed your face with his hands, yelled at you and then whacked you on the arm, hard enough to hurt you and bring tears to your eyes, but not hard enough to leave a bruise? He's not reaaaaally abusing you, he's just teaching you a lesson,..Right? And you'd certainly rush to work to get there on time. But not because you knew the value of being punctual, but because you were scared that you were going to be humiliated, made to feel powerless and physically attacked.

As far as what you can do, it really depends on how strongly you feel about this issue. If you find it mildy distressing, but not enough that you rock the relationship, well then you've made a choice. You can try to educate your bf, but you can't control him. What you can control is you and your dd's environment.

I can't tell you what to do. I can tell you what I would do. I would simply not allow anyone to inflict pain as a method of teaching, not on my child, not on my dogs. For me, there could be no compromise. My son is defenseless and it's my job to protect him and raise him to be a strong, positive, kind man. Not only that, I don't want my son growing up to hit my future grandkids! So, no one hits my son. And if dh felt the need to, he'd have to go through me first.
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#21 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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wow it really is sad that if he can't be more open-minded, that it would cause me and dds whole world to be turned up-side-down, hope it doesn't come to that but everyone is making great points, I do have to protect my daughter, that is all there is to it.
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#22 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 09:22 AM
 
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good luck with this...i can imagine it must be scary for you, especially since you feel like the pregnancy sort of stuck you with him. with all of this talk about instincts...i think you should follow *yours*. that still small voice that lets you know if it is worth it to remain in a relationship with this person. maybe it is worth it, i can't answer that for you obviously. it is quite clear that you are putting your daughter first, and that is fantastic. kudos to you for doing that.

obviously i agree that hitting is a deal breaker. when i was pregnant with my ds, we had the conversation (it hadn't occurred to me to talk to him before). he was spanked and although he wasn't all gung-ho about spanking, he wasn't against it either. we had been together since 10th grade and he's the most non-violent person i've ever encountered...but he still had those discipline tactics drilled in his brain as appropriate or even "necessary sometimes". we had been together for 12 years. he was the only person i've ever loved. the only person i'd ever been with. my soulmate and best friend. i told him in NO uncertain terms that if he EVER raised a hand to any of our children i would leave him and never look back. i think he thought i was kidding at first but we had many converstions after that about the things that i thought we SHOULD try instead. he's the same as your bf in that he thinks the internet isn't the best place for advice. LOL my situation is different in that i'm getting a PhD in human development, so i have some expert advice under my belt from coursework and articles, etc...but it still took a bit of convincing.

and i will say that once in a while, when our GD tactics seem to be not working, he'll mention some non-GD things as alternatives. he's never mentioned hitting/spanking again (he's no fool LOL) but he has advocated for less-gentle methods. i deflect them all and find something else that might work and eventually it does.

it will take time for your bf to rewire his brain, so don't expect to move mountains with a couple of links and articles. the best proof will probably be watching the way you interact with your daughter...once she's old enough to really start doing things that he might think are spanking-worthy, show him the many many many many alternatives that aren't damaging to your daughter.

most people don't love the act of spanking. even those who are FIRM believers in it as a discipline tactic. most would use alternatives in a heartbeat if they *really* thought they would work as effectively. so maybe, with your bf, the best thing would be to implement the no spanking rule on a temporary basis. say that for the next 6months there will be absolutely NO spanking. you will use your heads and your hearts to create logical alternatives for discipline and check in with each other after that time. i dunno...i haven't thought that through entirely, it's just a suggestion...someone else might have a reason why that's not a good idea. LOL

anyway...i also think you should stick around here...for those days when you're running out of great ideas.
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#23 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 09:25 AM
 
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LOL ok i *just* looked at your siggy and see that your daughter is a lot older than i thought! she's beautiful!!!!
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#24 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 09:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jacksmama
Sometimes in relationships there are non negotiable points. For me, hitting my child is not open for negotiation or compromise. We don't hit. Period. We don't hit our pets, our friends or each other. Including children. If my dh insisted on spanking ds, it would become such a source of distress for me I know that eventually our relationship would dissolve. Spanking is THAT big of a deal to me. So isn't yelling, name calling and domineering parenting.

I'm puzzled though. Aren't you half the equation? Doesn't your input count on how to raise your dd? Not only does it seem like your bf is not putting himself in your dd's shoes, it appears he's disregarding your feelings and values as well. Hitting a child is only one way of teaching them how to manuever through this world. There are lots of options other than hitting. Inflicting physical pain as a way to teach someone to listen to you, is really quite absurd IMO. Hitting kids only teaches them to be afraid of you and to NOT do things that would cause them harm. It doesn't teach them confidence or how to choose the right way for themselves.

Imagine if your boss hit you evertime you were late? I know, that sounds far fetched. (Of course your boss wouldn't hit you, because that would be assault.) But what if he wasn't beating you, but just grabbed your face with his hands, yelled at you and then whacked you on the arm, hard enough to hurt you and bring tears to your eyes, but not hard enough to leave a bruise? He's not reaaaaally abusing you, he's just teaching you a lesson,..Right? And you'd certainly rush to work to get there on time. But not because you knew the value of being punctual, but because you were scared that you were going to be humiliated, made to feel powerless and physically attacked.

As far as what you can do, it really depends on how strongly you feel about this issue. If you find it mildy distressing, but not enough that you rock the relationship, well then you've made a choice. You can try to educate your bf, but you can't control him. What you can control is you and your dd's environment.

I can't tell you what to do. I can tell you what I would do. I would simply not allow anyone to inflict pain as a method of teaching, not on my child, not on my dogs. For me, there could be no compromise. My son is defenseless and it's my job to protect him and raise him to be a strong, positive, kind man. Not only that, I don't want my son growing up to hit my future grandkids! So, no one hits my son. And if dh felt the need to, he'd have to go through me first.
Exactly!

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#25 of 27 Old 10-31-2005, 10:22 AM
 
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OP, do you want my true opinion, even though it is not supportive of your relationship with BF? Or are you asking for support to remain in the relationship and change his mind?
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#26 of 27 Old 11-01-2005, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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OP, do you want my true opinion, even though it is not supportive of your relationship with BF? Or are you asking for support to remain in the relationship and change his mind?
support to remain in the relationship and change his mind.

michelemiller - she is 10 months old as of 10/21 - some think she looks older b/c of her hair I guess.
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#27 of 27 Old 11-01-2005, 02:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jrayn
support to remain in the relationship and change his mind.

michelemiller - she is 10 months old as of 10/21 - some think she looks older b/c of her hair I guess.
OK, thanks for clarifying.
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