Can we talk about this forum? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:14 PM
 
AccidentalHousewif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: LaLaLand
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sledg
often what I see now is a lot of people trying to prove themselves right and win over other people.
As a newbie, and as someone not committed to a particular guru or POV and hoping to use this forum to inform my thinking along with reading books, that's what I see as well, and it has discouraged me from jumping into most discussions.

There's nothing wrong with debate, or with passionately stated beliefs, but there are better and worse ways to debate. And too often, it seems to me, the debate in this forum devolves into definitional hairsplitting and competitive quoting of preferred experts, not to mention thinly-veiled name-calling -- so much so that as a pp said it makes my head hurt. The tone of some threads becomes downright nasty. More than once I have logged out of the forum feeling less enlightened than struck by the medieval-theologian-weeding-out-heretics mentality of some GD devotees.

And as another pp noted, judgment is just a form of opinion, but some posts are imbued with an off-putting smugness, oozing the belief that what works for that poster's family, child, or children is going to work for everyone else if only they will do exactly as she has done.

Rather than any sort of rigid rules or splitting of the forum (because I do think that would be a shame as I suspect that there are many MDC members like myself who take an ecumenical approach to various GD doctrines, picking & choosing depending on the situation and the child, or still developing a definite POV), may I humbly suggest that we come to this forum from a place of humility as well as passion, so that we may offer our own experiences and opinions at the same time we acknowledge that what is ideal and efficacious for us may not be equally so for anyone else.
AccidentalHousewif is offline  
#62 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:15 PM
 
The4OfUs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, just one more, then I'm really going to make dinner

Johub, I guess the only way to go is to maybe interject if things are getting out of hand and ask that we all be as gentle with each other as we are with our children...

How about as a GD forum "guideline":

If you wouldn't say to your child, you shouldn't say it to another mama here.


I'm sure all of us are capable of expressing our feelings and opinions and values to our children without offending them, shaming them, taking their feelings into consideration, and not trying to prove them 'wrong' - that's what GD is all about, I think we all can at least agree on that....so why not extend that same consideration to other mamas looking for ways to be more gentle with their own children? Why not be as gentle with them as you are your own child?

OK, now I really need to get moving. Fortunately, DS has been fascinated by a balloon he got at the supermarket for the past 2 hours, playing with it wiht me in a thousand different ways...can't wait to see how he uses it in the kitchen!!!

Heather, WAHM to DS (01/04)DD (06/06). Wed to DH(09/97)
The4OfUs is offline  
#63 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:21 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donosmommy04
How about as a GD forum "guideline":

If you wouldn't say to your child, you shouldn't say it to another mama here.

I love it.
I'm game.
johub is offline  
#64 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:31 PM
 
TripMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizelenius
Well, I have to say, I do get something out of differing beliefs. When I was in a real-life GD group, one mom used time outs. I don't. So what? She can ask why I don't or not, and vice versa. But, I learned other things from her, and hopefully she did from me. I learn things from the TCS people AND the people who are not. Don't make me pick what I am-- I can't even pick a religion!
But the spectrum is so wide here. I like hearing a range of opinions too . . . but I really am trying to practice GD within a certain spectrum (basically around PD and Jane Nelsons books) - its hard. I try to reread the book to refocus myself. I go to a monthly book club to discuss it. But I really would find an active board useful to keep myself focused on consistency with the practice. Its just not possible when the views are so extreme to the left (and its the definitely the left) and so damning and vocal. And if you are a newbie - how could you even figure out what's what? I really feel like a few sub forums would be helpful.

For instance - I have had more than 1 poster respond extremely negatively to Jane Nelson and PD? Completely trashing it as cruel, etc. Well - its on the recommended Book List for GD on the sticky? So -- where is this board GD-wise? I shouldn't feel intimidated to post about my practicing a GD method explicitly approved/recommended by this board?

TripMom . . . . . loving mom : to DS (7) and BBG (4.5)
TripMom is offline  
#65 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:36 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripMom
But the spectrum is so wide here. I like hearing a range of opinions too . . . but I really am trying to practice GD within a certain spectrum (basically around PD and Jane Nelsons books) - its hard. I try to reread the book to refocus myself. I go to a monthly book club to discuss it. But I really would find an active board useful to keep myself focused on consistency with the practice. Its just not possible when the views are so extreme to the left (and its the definitely the left) and so damning and vocal. And if you are a newbie - how could you even figure out what's what? I really feel like a few sub forums would be helpful.
Sub forums?
Not a separate forum. Not two separate forums, one "old fashioned gd" and one "tcs/non coercive/consensual" but room for everybody and inclusiveness plus some "safe space" to keep some threads on track.
Was this considered before when they discussed splitting forums way back?
I like the idea of subforums ( I guess I am liking all the potential solutions that get mentioned! LOL)
johub is offline  
#66 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:50 PM
 
TripMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
Sub forums?
Not a separate forum. Not two separate forums, one "old fashioned gd" and one "tcs/non coercive/consensual" but room for everybody and inclusiveness plus some "safe space" to keep some threads on track.
Was this considered before when they discussed splitting forums way back?
I like the idea of subforums ( I guess I am liking all the potential solutions that get mentioned! LOL)
That was my thought. Like parenting forum - so if you want to post in the "general" GD forum - you can - and you will get feedback from everyone. But if you want to reach those mommas who practice PD, for instance - you can post in that forum. SeeWIM?

TripMom . . . . . loving mom : to DS (7) and BBG (4.5)
TripMom is offline  
#67 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:54 PM
 
aira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: missing the Grandmother Lodge
Posts: 3,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I see the value in having sub-forums where certain bandwidths on the GD spectrum are discussed. It has worked in the other forums on MDC, as far as I can tell...
aira is offline  
#68 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 07:57 PM
 
loraxc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the Truffula Trees
Posts: 4,480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey, I like the subforum idea as well. Good compromise! Very GD!

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

loraxc is offline  
#69 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 08:16 PM
 
sophmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: with a brush in my hand
Posts: 2,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the subforums have their draw backs but it would be like on the Bfing board - they have the CLW board since not all moms do CLW but we all support those who do - they belong there but there got to be a bit of an issue with MLW and CLW right next to each other - a subforum created a place to focus on that practice within breastfeeding. Or the EC forum on diapering. Yes it does segregate converstation a little but it also makes it a little sane to visit the boards and it gives those POV's a place to congregate and really talk without interuption. But I wouldn't want anyone to feel segregated. However from MY perspective, I would enjoy the board a lot more if there was a REAL peaceful solution like this.

What do those of you from the other side of the issue think? Would you want a TCS/non coercive subforum? Do you have other solutions? Do you think there is a real issue here? I'd like the PD forum or something that categorized me - I'm not sure what category I fit in though - still figuring it out. I just want to be able to post somewhere without fear of being pounced upon.
sophmama is offline  
#70 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 08:42 PM
 
Magella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm having a little trouble understanding why adults need separate forums or subforums to talk. To me, this seems like sending my kids to separate areas of the house when they are disagreeing about something and can't find a peaceful solution. Sure, for the moment it brings peace but it doesn't foster communication or learning.

I am having some trouble understanding, also, this negative undercurrent toward TCS/non-coercion-this desire to just put it elsewhere so we don't have to experience the discomfort of the conversations involving people who practice this method of parenting. I am not a TCS-er by any stretch of the imagination. But that doesn't mean I don't benefit from hearing about it in the course of an average discussion of discipline. Yes, TCS/non-coercion does challenge everything we've ever been taught or that we've ever understood about parenting and about children. And that brings out strong emotional reactions. Is that really a bad thing? Or could it be that we have the choice to open up just enough to have the opportunity to learn from it in some way?

You know, there are at least a few Positive Parenting or Positive Discipline boards out there that are more mainstream, where you don't run into conversations about TCS every day. But MDC is a gem of a place where you can be exposed to so many ideas that are so rare in our society at large. This just can't be a bad thing, in my book.
Magella is offline  
#71 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 08:56 PM
 
sophmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: with a brush in my hand
Posts: 2,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't have a problem with hearing about TCS/non-coersion in really any thread - it's more the way it's presented and if the presenters don't feel an obligation to be gentle about it or they feel too passionate about it to do so, I thought the board might be more welcoming to GD practicers in general if they had an area to talk about it - IF THEY WANT IT - not trying to get rid of them. Want to let them have a place like the CLW forum if they want it. I don't know what exact title of my sub group would be because I don't have one really. I only want that IF THEY WANT IT!


Again, it's not the philosophy that offends, it's the presentation style.
sophmama is offline  
#72 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 09:16 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sledg
I am having some trouble understanding, also, this negative undercurrent toward TCS/non-coercion-this desire to just put it elsewhere so we don't have to experience the discomfort of the conversations involving people who practice this method of parenting. I am not a TCS-er by any stretch of the imagination. But that doesn't mean I don't benefit from hearing about it in the course of an average discussion of discipline. Yes, TCS/non-coercion does challenge everything we've ever been taught or that we've ever understood about parenting and about children. And that brings out strong emotional reactions. Is that really a bad thing? Or could it be that we have the choice to open up just enough to have the opportunity to learn from it in some way?

.
I have no problem at all with TCS or Non coercive parenting. I mean I am not at all interested in it myself. But I have no problems with it being described and advocated.
I do have a problem with this idea being pushed in almost every thread, regardless of whether or not it is related.
There are TCS/non coercive posters who are very respectful and helpful and contribute in positive beneficial ways wherever they post.
There are those who are not so much. Who appear from my position to be on a path to convert all, and to trod on any other idea or pov.
I am sure there are particularly agressive posters on either side, but of course my view is limited. (heck in "this side" it is probably me )
So my issue is not with the philosophy but how some choose to share it.
I am for an all inclusive definition of GD, and it is this which causes most of the "debates" I particpate in. Nothign against TCS or non coercive parenting. Just against the attempts to define GD in a way that excludes those with a more traditional approach.
johub is offline  
#73 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 09:22 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: raising the revolution
Posts: 4,883
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I do have a problem with this idea being pushed in almost every thread, regardless of whether or not it is related.
I don't know where it wouldn't be related... I mean, if someone has a question related to *discipline* and someone practices non-coercive parenting or consensual living, I would imagine that person would share their perspective. Everyone "pushes" their agenda so to speak, just by the mere fact that they are offering suggestions as to how THEY would handle a situation according to THEIR parenting philosophy. I mean, I wouldn't ever go into a thread about a baby not sleeping and say something like "I don't agree with this AT ALL... but why don't you try crying it out?" ... The same way I am not going to enter a thread with certain parenting beliefs and say something like "though I am into consensual living, just force the kid to brush his teeth" kwim?

Perhaps people should put in their OP that they DON'T want advice from people who practice consensual living....because in most of the topics I read, people say "ANY advice appreciated etc"...

You are "pushing" your agenda every time you suggest something you would do....
captain crunchy is offline  
#74 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 09:31 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy
I don't know where it wouldn't be related... I mean, if someone has a question related to *discipline* and someone practices non-coercive parenting or consensual living, I would imagine that person would share their perspective. ..
Well for example. In any of a million threads where somebody posts "How do I get my child to do x" This person has already made a decision that X is important and they want to figure out how to get a point where their child does x.
IT is irrelevant to go into that thread and debate X and why anybody should ever do it or make their child do it and how it really isnt important anyway when it comes to your child's free will etc. . .
Now If the thread was "Is X important enough to coerce my child?" Then this type of argument would be related.
For example there have been several threads recently by moms who want to solve problems without coercing their children.
I read these threads and magically did NOT post. Because they really were not looking for somebody to say "YOU are the mom. TUrn that TV off!" or "you were right on to make your child get into his own carseat" or whatever.
Certainly I had ideas and suggestions which would have addressed the issue these posters wanted to solve, but they made it clear they were not looking to coerce their child and therefore my input would be unrelated.
johub is offline  
#75 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 09:49 PM
 
Proudly AP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls
I agree with this sentiment.

But that does not prevent me from taking into account that there is another human being at the recieving end of what I am saying. I hold that person in highest respect and not having any intent of ever inflecting pain or hurt on another person I try to apologise, re-word, whatever it takes to make sure they understand it was not my intent to hurt them in any way.

I don't do it because I feel responsible for their feelings, as you say they are entirely responsible for their own responses and feelings, I do it in the name of peace and harmony. Because I have nothing to gain by making statements that hurt others. I never do it on purpose and if I do it accidentally I apologise. Because it's the right thing to do. I don't do it for them, I guess I do it for me.

Every person on this earth is on thier own journey and no one person is exactly in the same place as me. I try to always keep that in mind...some are further along and some are further behind. Some are to the left, some are to the right. It's actually more like a compass than a straight line.

Truth is I learn as much from those behind as I do from those ahead. The right as much as the left. And I don't mean "ahead and behind" in a better or worse sense. Just in...different places. I know what I want to say but it's not coming out right.

So while I know I am not responsible for others feelings, they are, I still have respect for others feelings and try to honour them.

Of course when I'm in a bad place I fail miserably but most days I do pretty well.



Carolyn


ITA with all of this. well-said (and well-intentioned, obviously), carolyn!
Proudly AP is offline  
#76 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
Dragonfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: On the Brink
Posts: 6,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
Well for example. In any of a million threads where somebody posts "How do I get my child to do x" This person has already made a decision that X is important and they want to figure out how to get a point where their child does x.
Are you sure about that? I originally came here with the belief that certain things were important. I've since changed my mind on some of them because people have helped me to find a better path for me in my parenting. I wouldn't have known about it if those people had stayed away from my threads because they thought I was just looking for solutions within a specific framework.
Dragonfly is offline  
#77 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 10:07 PM
Banned
 
~member~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: on a lily pad
Posts: 13,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Are you sure about that? I originally came here with the belief that certain things were important. I've since changed my mind on some of them because people have helped me to find a better path for me in my parenting. I wouldn't have known about it if those people had stayed away from my threads because they thought I was just looking for solutions within a specific framework.
Same here! I've learned so much and feel like I have really made progress in becoming the parent I want to be, and, no, I am not all the way there, but I do feel like I am pretty close to being that parent the majority of the time, kwim?
~member~ is offline  
#78 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 10:12 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: raising the revolution
Posts: 4,883
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why is it that most of us disagree with anyone telling us what to do with our bodies, how to vote, what religion to believe... but at the same time, some people think nothing of turning around and telling people how to post, what to say, what threads to answer, how to frame our responses, how to interact with people, how to title our threads, and how to conduct ourselves within this forum...good luck getting a bunch of people who believe in non-coercion to buy that.....

I think I am respectful in more posts than I am disrespectful but hey, that is subjective. Respect is subjective. I refuse to mull over every word I type in case someone, somewhere may find it offensive. It seems around here a lot of the time, people find any challenge whatsoever of the way someone is *disciplining* offensive.

If you are asking for help, suggestions and advice...you're going to get it. That is the nature of the board. If you are asking for blind support and a pat on the back, ask for that too. It would save a lot of confusion I imagine.
captain crunchy is offline  
#79 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 10:34 PM
 
TripMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Really really really would like subforums. Really a lot. Reason being . . . if a PD mom wants to have a PD discussion on these boards . . . . she should not have to spend an entire thread defending herself for actions that are PD. She should also not have to read posts such as "you are cruel" . .. "I would never do X to my children." It would be nice to hear from other PD moms about PD approaches.

I don't know what TCL is? I am getting a feel for non-coercive parenting though. And maybe these are the names of the GD styles that are more left leaning than PD. In subforums we could deal with "our tribe" so to speak. And we could post in the main forum if we wanted to hear from a wider spectrum of GD parents.

Strong appeal for subforums.

TripMom . . . . . loving mom : to DS (7) and BBG (4.5)
TripMom is offline  
#80 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 10:41 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The whole MDC site is a 'spanking free' zone. There is a Toddler forum, Childhood forum, Teen forum in which 'old fashioned' discipline is welcome. I understand the GD forum to be a more progressive forum promoting to understand that children have reasons for their behavior and that *cooperation* can be engaged to solve shared problems. Cooperation obviously does not include imposing anything or focusing on controlling or modifying behavior. The stated goal appears to specify "rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrong doing" as they learn about limits and boundaries. Not that punishment is utilized or promoted because some believe that children are manipulating. I don't infer this belief that children are manipulative from the guidelines at all. On the contrary.

Certainly, folks will come with these beliefs; this forum is sited for those with "the intent to learn more about Gentle Discipline". Not to promote or maintain the 'old fashioned' discipline. One can certainly also start a "Positive Discipline according to Jane Neilson" tribe in Finding Your Tribe forum. Just as there is a TCS-ish tribe, TCC-ish tribe, and an Unconditional Parenting tribe.

Per googling, there are many 'Positive Discipline' forums nationally too. Just as there are TCS, TCC, and Unconditional Parenting forums nationally.

From the forum Guidelines:
Quote:
Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.

Hitting is never the best way to teach a child. Even in the case of real danger - as when a child runs out into the road - you can grab him, sit him down, look him in the eyes, and tell him why he must never do that again. The panic in your voice will communicate your message much more effectively than any spanking. You can be dramatic without being abusive.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara
And what is so objectionable about promoting *seeking mutually agreeable solutions* in EVERY THREAD? Radical? Far left of what?

Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#81 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 10:50 PM
 
sunnysideup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am not really TCS or non-coercive, but I don't punish. I am feeling like my view point isn't welcome here. Which seems silly. Aren't there a lot of non-punishers in the GD forum at MDC. The discribtion of GD in the sticky seems to advocate a non-punitive approach to teaching discipline.
Quote:
And what is so objectionable about promoting *seeking mutually agreeable solutions* in EVERY THREAD? Radical? Far left of what?
:
sunnysideup is offline  
#82 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 10:55 PM
 
owensmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: watching Dr. Horrible
Posts: 4,794
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The book list is not some sort of sanctioned-read-and-passed-the-MDC-GD-test by a GD guru list. It is only made up of suggestions by people on the board. Unconditional Parenting isn't on there, because nobody has told the mod to list it yet. PD is on there because someone found it helpful to them in their pursuit to GD and it was put on the list.
owensmom is offline  
#83 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 11:26 PM
 
Llyra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 9,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I dunno about sub-forums. I don't always agree with the TCS/non-coercive mamas, but I'm really glad they're here. It's what's so special about MDC-- that there are so many viewpoints and ideas taken for granted here that would be considered too radical even to consider, on a lot of the more mainstream parenting boards. For instance, I don't EC, but I'm glad there are ECers on MDC, because I might not have otherwise known about that.

I think that MDC is a challenging place, especially if you're new to AP/NFL/etc. It's hard to start out here as a newbie if you're not already on board with a lot of the principles that many mamas here take for granted. So some sort of helpful attitude is needed from more experienced GD mamas, when the poster asking for help is clearly not conversant with non-coercive parenting etc. Also, such mamas have to realize that there are others here who are more authoritative. But I really hate the idea of segregating those discussions to a separate forum--- there's so much I would never have heard of, if I hadn't learned it here. And I do want to hear that perspective. I want to know what my options are, so that I can make informed choices.

But I also want to feel safe offering a more authoritative approach as a suggestion, when such a suggestion might be appropriate. I'm a GD mama, too, although of a different brand.

I guess I like all the debate. It's stimulating. I say keep things the way they are, because I think that the fact that we're having this discussion at all means people are thinking a little more about how to have these kinds of stimulating discussions while still maintaining civility and thoughtfulness. I've been on other boards where the minute a discussion gets heated, the mods yank the whole thread. Yikes. I don't want to see stuff like that here, ever, not that it ever would, but still.

Just adding my thoughts to the general pool. I'll stop rambling now.

me knit.gif, he bikenew.gif, my three reading.gif, sleepytime.gif, and fairy.gif-- and the one we lost angel2.gif
Llyra is offline  
#84 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 11:33 PM
 
Yooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripMom
Really really really would like subforums. Really a lot. Reason being . . . if a PD mom wants to have a PD discussion on these boards . . . . she should not have to spend an entire thread defending herself for actions that are PD. She should also not have to read posts such as "you are cruel" . .. "I would never do X to my children." It would be nice to hear from other PD moms about PD approaches.

I don't know what TCL is? I am getting a feel for non-coercive parenting though. And maybe these are the names of the GD styles that are more left leaning than PD. In subforums we could deal with "our tribe" so to speak. And we could post in the main forum if we wanted to hear from a wider spectrum of GD parents.

Strong appeal for subforums.
There is a way to get what you want now without having subforums. Simply state in your title or OP that you are only open to PD help.

I do not see a need to break up the forum.
Yooper is offline  
#85 of 158 Old 01-11-2006, 11:50 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoopervegan
There is a way to get what you want now without having subforums. Simply state in your title or OP that you are only open to PD help.

I do not see a need to break up the forum.
THis will only work if everybody agrees to respect the intent stated in the title. And I get the impression that there are a few who have no intention of limiting what or where they post.
johub is offline  
#86 of 158 Old 01-12-2006, 01:00 AM
 
MamaE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Perpetual DIY-land
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donosmommy04
How about as a GD forum "guideline":

If you wouldn't say to your child, you shouldn't say it to another mama here.
And, I've said before in other threads, if we can't GD each other how can we expect or claim to GD our children?

I think it's very fitting to the forum that if we GD our kids, we ought to GD each other. There are so many instances over the past few days of people syaing things they would never say to their children or of treating people in ways they would never treat their children. If GD is all about mutual respect, let's start by respecting each other and by guiding each other as gently as we guide our children.

As for subforums, hmm, I would probably vote no if I thought we could get everyone to adhere to a simple guideline of mutual respect and gentle guidance. Yeah, right!
MamaE is offline  
#87 of 158 Old 01-12-2006, 01:28 AM
 
aira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: missing the Grandmother Lodge
Posts: 3,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy
It seems around here a lot of the time, people find any challenge whatsoever of the way someone is *disciplining* offensive.
And it's gotten really out of hand.

I was struck by the recent thread where some mamas were getting offended over spanking being described as the violent act that it is.

I couldn't believe I was on MDC.

Sorry, I won't be giving e-hugs to that kind of sentiment.



As far as using how we are with our children as a guideline... Well I have to mull that over. My unformed, unedited thoughts about it are that I'm not a child, you are not chilren, and we don't have a relationship where any person is a guide to another. It certainly will happen that we find guidance here from those whose ideas speak to us.

I certainly don't care to have anyone try coersion or manipulation on me. For those who do that with their kids, it's not a good litmus test for posting.
aira is offline  
#88 of 158 Old 01-12-2006, 02:06 AM
 
annab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN
Posts: 785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow. This forum has been busy today. I only have skimmed the other posts, but I want to jump in here. I would say that 90% of my total posts since joining MDC have been in this forum, so I feel that I have a vested interest in it.

Several years ago, a friend of mine said she was hanging out in the MDC Gentle Discipline forum a lot. I said, "I never go there." I was an MDC lurker at the time. "You will when he's older...." she told me.

And I did. This was a place of solid, loving, help-a-mama-while-helping-her-kid advice. I read things that did not apply to my situation and catalogued them, knowing that I would probably need it someday.

In the last six months, this place has become disrespectful and a "you're wrong, I'm right" kind of playground shoving match. I hate it. I think that there are a lot of 'judge first, assist later' posts popping up. I think some people are more interested in being heard and being considered 'right', than being helpful.

There are people whose posts I avoid. There are people whose posts I look for first in a thread. I end up reading almost all of them because even though I am almost sure that I will disagree, there may be some nugget of usefulness for my kids. However, when a poster goes negative and seems to be trying to make someone feel bad for her choices, I ignore her for the rest of the thread.

I hope things improve here. I don't like the idea of subforums. I would rather just self-moderate. I hope this is a place to which I can return happily someday soon.
annab is offline  
#89 of 158 Old 01-12-2006, 06:00 AM
 
gaialice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sledg
People, there just isn't a lot of actual communication going on here. That is the problem as I see it. There is an awful lot of defensiveness and proving of one's point, and very little actual communication. I am always hopeful, and I have always loved to take refuge in this place, but even I am getting very discouraged.
I am sorry you are feeling that way Sledg. I really enjoy reading your posts and your advice has been really great for me so I hope you keep posting. I really disagree that there is not a lot of communication on this forum. I see a lot of people taking time to explain their POW calmly and considerately. Recently there was a thread with a discussion about TCS. Strong opinions were expressed on both sides, but it was a thread that was meant for discussion. A lot of other threads are just requests for help, which is offered very tactfully. Yes, you get different suggestions from different people, but, is that not the beauty of this forum? I am feeling sorry to see so many of you disappointed, because, as I said, I just love this forum and I do not want to see it broken up or anything else...
I think that you will all at least agree that one the main quality of this forum is that it moves fast. You can post a question today and get 10 or 20 reply over the weekend. That happens precisely because there is so much debate. Precisely because there are so many different viewpoints. This is what draws people here. Debate is enriching. Yes, you can find author-specific forums out there. But then, they move very very slowly. Why? Because people are getting very little that they do not already know and the guidelines are so specific and containing that there is little room for real discussion.
I am not married to a style of parenting or a specific author. Within a certain spectrum - I do not want to spank, call names, lay guilty trips etc. - I will do what works best. So I am thrilled that there is so much debate, and that every thread is responded to, with so many good ideas and suggestions by so many of us.
gaialice is offline  
#90 of 158 Old 01-12-2006, 11:19 AM
 
Magella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaialice
I really disagree that there is not a lot of communication on this forum. I see a lot of people taking time to explain their POW calmly and considerately. Recently there was a thread with a discussion about TCS. Strong opinions were expressed on both sides, but it was a thread that was meant for discussion. A lot of other threads are just requests for help, which is offered very tactfully. Yes, you get different suggestions from different people, but, is that not the beauty of this forum? I am feeling sorry to see so many of you disappointed, because, as I said, I just love this forum and I do not want to see it broken up or anything else...
Hmmmmm....I think I did say that the beauty of this forum, what I have always loved about it, is the diversity of thought and opinion. What discourages me is the amount of....well, I guess hostility and offense-taking that I'm seeing here when that diversity of opinion begins to be expressed. That is what I'm talking about when I say I don't see a lot of communication....I see lots of arguing and defensiveness. And yes, there is some real listening and sharing of ideas. But I think that somehow lately the defensiveness and argumentative nature of some threads is really so discouraging. It's just so much negative energy, which is so sad to see. I feel sad about it because this isn't what I'm used to seeing here at MDC, and it doesn't feel as peaceful as I would like it to be. And this desire to separate out forums just...well, I just don't understand it, frankly. I see no need for it, and I don't see it as desirable or beneficial.

Here's what I think: I love, love, love to hear all the many points of view that people bring here. I will not agree with all of them. I do not feel unwelcome or offended when someone else brings up a suggestion or point of view with which I disagree, even if that wasn't the direction I was looking in for advice. No one besides me has the power to make me feel offended, or frustrated, or angry or whatever. No one has that much power over me. When I'm feeling offended or frustrated or whatever, the source of that is within myself. My feelings are my responsibility. And that is why I have the power and freedom to let it go, to decide that instead of being offended I can find something enriching about whatever has been said-even if that enrichment comes in the form of solidifying the belief I already have. Heck, I don't even have to continue feeling sad or frustrated about this forum-instead I could choose, as I am trying to today, to accept and work with things as they are and just let the rest go.

Maybe if we all just take what people offer here for what it is-a suggestion truly in the spirit of helping-we can make the peace here that we all wish to find. We are never going to all agree on anything, except the fact that we'd all like to help each other do our best to parent our children as responsibly, respectfully, and gently as possible. We're all more alike than we are different, I think.
Magella is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off