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#151 of 158 Old 01-14-2006, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by johub
I am sorry you have misunderstood, so I will restate. I think that clarifying a belief with an "I think" or an "I believe" IS the way to go to make statements that are diplomatic. I was advocating this very thing.
It is my belief that the statement "time outs are damaging to children" is less
Ah, I did misunderstand. In the examples that I remembered you using as diplmatic, I was remembering you saying "In my family . . . " or "For my child . . ." I think those are completely different statments than "I believe xxx is wrong" because they are not qualified in some way. Looking back, I see that I was just remembering in a distorted way.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Mama to Nate (11/02) and due 4/12/11
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#152 of 158 Old 01-14-2006, 03:57 PM
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a bit off topic but....aira, I've never heard that POV expressed as you did. that was a very eloquent post and it gave me something to think about...

teapot2.GIF Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)  ribbonjigsaw.gif blogging.jpg homeschool.gif

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#153 of 158 Old 01-15-2006, 03:21 AM
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I have to admit that at times i've thought things have gone a bit too far,and then low and behold i open my mind and start learning something new! I find that this forum is a mind opening experience.There is so much to learn in this world every day.I also feel that the posters are a pretty strong bunch of parents with alot to say. I, myself am pretty sensitive.It can be difficult to be strong/weak all at once.For the most part i don't think anyone is intentionally trying to cause hurt.As a pp said (in so many words)it would be nice if we treated others on this board with the same respect as we purport to treat our children.I couldn't have put it better.
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#154 of 158 Old 01-16-2006, 12:04 PM
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I've been thinking about this thread, this forum, and my part in both.

I would like to apologize if people have been hurt or offended by anything I've said here. Truly, I'm sorry. It's not ever my intent to cause anyone bad feelings.

And, I've been thinking about why that may have happened and if I have been rude here, etc. And I realized that I often do get frustrated here. And then I've tried to discern why.

Firstly, I don't think I've realized how shocking (and almost like a betrayal) it is for me to read about discipline practices by other GD moms, that don't seem gentle *to me.* It's one thing to go to a mainstream board and read all sorts of things that make me cringe--I guess I expect it. I don't feel the same kinship to those posters, like I do here. It just doesn't bother me as much. But when I hear it here, I just feel awful. I feel threatened, I think. Threatened that I may no longer be in the right place. Which is why I felt so badly when people suggested that we leave or move.

The second reason I think I've felt so frustrated here, is that I'm really tired of seeing (or posting, myself) a non-coercive suggestion to a situation and having someone say, "Yeah, RIGHT! I'll just let them do whatever they want all the time. B/c that's the real world!" Or some such response. It's hard to continue a dialogue after that, you know? But, I also feel it's important not to just let misperception remain. So, I probably get a bit defensive and stridant and posty trying to clarify how it really can work.

Anyway, I am going to work on identifying and changing my behavior in these situations.

And my apologies, again.
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#155 of 158 Old 01-16-2006, 05:58 PM
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I miss the good old days of years gone by.

I think that many of us forget that the name of this forum is Gentle Discipline. Some people will see gentle discipline as positive reinforcement, gentle timeouts when needed and logical consequences. Some people will see gentle discipline as only natural consequences and absolutely no coersion. Frankly, I think we are forgetting the "discipline" part of the title, it's not Gentle Parenting. I don't have a problem at all with a parent coming here and asking for advice on how to make time out work more effectively for them. Here is where I feel the problem lies. It seems like so much of the time we feel the need to "convert" people from their "ignorance," and thus we get in on the thread and start talking about how damaging we feel timeouts are and how if they would try our way life would be peachy.

What we forget is that perhaps the poster has read the non-coersive parenting posts but still feels that timeouts are the way to go. What is wrong with that parent being able to discuss timeout with other parents who want to responsibly practice time out. Some people don't punish, some do, as long as we are all gentle in our discipline we should be able to post. There is a vast plain of what is considered Gentle Discipline on the spectrum. Just because we don't agree with something doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who does it is wrong. Yet that seems to be the sentiment that is so often seen.

Why is it so hard to not post to a timeout thread if you don't practice timeout. Why do we all feel the need to prove how GD we are and convert everyone to our precise way of parenting. Can parents who practice time out, not coexist with those who practice TCS? Can we not understand that what is gentle discipline to one may be coersive to another, yet that doesn't make either of them "right?" The older I (and my children) get, and the more life and parenting experience I have under my belt the more I realize how these petty arguements mean nothing in the long run. The parents who practice time out and set limits are no less loving or AP to their children than the parents who practice non-coersive parenting. On the flip side, those children who had limits and gasp -- punishments on occasion don't love their parents any less than those who never had limits or punishment.

I don't think that we should all have to have read a particular book or author to post on the GD board. How boring would it be if we all had the exact same parenting ideals. Heck, we wouldn't need this board. What we need to remember is that it is okay that we all choose to raise our children a little bit differently. If I choose to set limits, bedtimes, and use timeout, it doesn't make me a lesser parent than you who might choose to parent non-coersively. I also don't feel that anyone should feel I'm doing it "wrong" just because I'm not doing it their way. After all, my parenting has evolved and continues to as I become a more experienced parent.

I guess what I don't understand is why we can't have a more varied set of topics without everyone feeling that they need to make their opinions known on topics they don't agree with. I read many posts that I don't agree with the theory, but you know what, I respect the opinions of the posters, and their right to have those opinions and feel that way. I don't feel they are wrong in their parenting, if it works for them, great. I don't feel the need to try to convince them that their life would be easier if they would set a bedtime for their child, or take away the crayons if the wall has marks on it. We don't feel the same way, and I feel it's disrespectful as well as useless to try to make them feel exactly as I do. My way isn't their way, and that's okay.
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#156 of 158 Old 01-17-2006, 12:28 AM
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Reading with interest...GD is my favorite forum on MDC. I love the hot debates here and I love the threads where parents are getting loving support in a time of need. They're not always so great when combined though : )

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#157 of 158 Old 01-17-2006, 01:55 AM
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Piglet, you are my hero.
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#158 of 158 Old 01-17-2006, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Piglet68
You know what else I find interesting? On boards where people have met IRL, you rarely get any sort of flaming or bad threads. In my "local MDC tribe" forum we are overly polite and respectful, easily apologize for anything misconstrued...but that rarely happens. It's really interesting to see how differently people act (post) when it's a real person on the other end that you know and will run into from time to time.
It's definitely different for me. It's because I don't like to disagree with people I know in IRL and because I don't take advice well from people I know IRL. I like to get and give here. Also because I'm more comfortable talking about new ideas with people I don't know well...fewer expectations and all. I was just talking about MDC to a friend and how much I appreciated talking about issues with people who didn't have preconceived ideas about me and my life. It's therapeutic in a way. Now if they'd only make a coupling.commune

I finished reading and wanted to say how sorry I am to read that people feel uncomfortable here. I've always felt really comfortable in the GD forum because I get thoughtful advice and stimulating discussions.

What I noticed and what I was alluding to in my first post is that they're not always best when combined. I do think there is a certain amount of obligation to respect the OP if they are discussing their personal life and their discipline struggles. While I know that respect and support can take different forms, ongoing unwanted debate about a member's personal life as the subject is rude, imo. If a person shares something for support only, or for only one kind of advice or if they become uncomfortable then the conversation should continue on neutral territory. JMO.

I'm also sorry to see the debate over the TCS there a name for this...PD, authoritative...regular GD? I didn't see if this was mentioned but I think TCS was actually banned here for a while. And, I'm surprised because, although I'm not TCS, I find it really interesting and I've always appreciated the perspective. I also appreciate the perspective from the more authoritative parents here.

Anyway, I can see that this conversation is maybe coming to and end and I know there have been a lot of wise words. I also hope that we can find a way to make everyone feel welcome and comfortable. Hugs, mamas.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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