Hmph! Guess we're not using diapers anymore. - Advice needed!! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 123 Old 01-27-2006, 12:29 AM
 
miziki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ohio-ish
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Well, I certainly wasn't advocating letting him sit in poop... especially if he's in disposables, sitting in a wet diaper for four hours or so wouldn't be a major catastrophe... For what it's worth, in this situation I would just tell my kids, "Wet and poopy diapers have to be changed, even if you don't want to," and go ahead and change it. I certainly don't think kids should be left to sit in yucky diapers... Apparently I suck at this GD thing, because my suggestions are usually criticised as too controlling, yet when I try to come up with creative alternatives, those are crummy too!

dharmamama, I totally understand that you were NOT advocating letting him sit in poop! And I definitely believe that your suggestion came from a very kind, loving, good place. Plus, your suggestion IS creative and clever from the angle that it provides the toddler with a clear, predictable routine/plan to avoid conflict - which, IMO, is very GD!

Please accept my apology - I did not intend to criticise you (or anyone else), and my apologies if it came across that way. It was not my intention!

My only concern about your suggestion was that an UNINTENDED/accidental result of having "only a certain number of scheduled changes a day" could result in poopy diapers not getting changed immediately... getting pushed off until later... and later. Same with pee. And while that's not the end of the world for that to happen on RARE occasions, this type of thing happening even once daily builds up over time, and our kids AS WELL AS us, the parents, become desensitised to the feeling of dirty diapers and out of touch with the process/frequency/signals of elimination. All of that adds up to making potty training even harder in the long run, whenever, as a family, we decide to commit to the potty learning process.

This is why diapers are such a double-edged sword: super convenient, but potentially sooo convenient & habit-forming for both parent and child that it's actually really mentally difficult for parents and quite physically difficult for kids to break out of the cycle of using them. P.S. - I *know* the convenience of diapers - we used them, too! So this is NOT an accusation or criticism of parents who diaper - just problems that I see with diapering in general, as we do it in our culture currently. Does that make sense?
miziki is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 of 123 Old 01-27-2006, 12:51 PM
 
Magella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,442
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama
Sledg, I think you bring up and interesting point, and I agree with you partially. Both of my kids potty trained with several weeks of running around what we call here "naked butt" and having between 10 and 20 whizzing and pooping accidents.

BUT! This was after the kids had already shown interest in the potty and had gone through a period of indicating to me (while still wearing diapers) that they wanted to go and sit on the potty.


I think that makes a difference for a lot of kids. I'm not sure that just taking diapers off a kid who has not really shown any interest in going to the potty and just expecting them to learn, after however many accidents, to go in the potty, is the right way to go.
ITA!!!
I wasn't clear. I apologize. Certainly the most important part is that a child shows interest. I waited for all of my kids to show definite interest in the potty before even thinking about helping them learn to use it. I guess I take that so for granted that I didn't even think to say it. I also didn't make clear that I understood the op's child is not currently interested, and was more thinking of his initial interest and his future interest. I think I did say I was mentioning it to keep in mind for when he's ready and she's ready to try again.

The other piece is, though, that a child can lose interest if they feel pressured to use the potty. I know when I have gotten frustrated about accidents for whatever reason and have started pressuring them to go on the potty or showing irritation at the accident, they resist. That's my cue to back off a bit and get back to gentle encouragement, and when faced with accidents just say "oh, you peed. That happens. Next time you'll make it to the potty. Let's clean up." YK?
Magella is offline  
#33 of 123 Old 01-28-2006, 02:38 AM
 
JenniferC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Praising the Lord in Nova Scotia
Posts: 940
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I can share our experiences. DD is potty trained now, but around 18 months I noticed she would wet herself when I was going to the bathroom (we have an open door policy), so I started setting her on a little potty when I was going, and she often would. She still wore diapers for quite a while (she'd been mostly dry at night for quite some time and I pottied her in the morning too and last thing at night), but just eventually transitioned out of them. She does have misses when she's sick, and has had a couple of relapses but is doing well.

As far as if you want to keep your DS in diapers, does he have a favourite doll or stuffed animal? Whenever DD is resistant to going in her carseat we buckle her special 'car seat' puppy in with her, that's his only job really, he lives in the car. At times when she would resist the potty we'd say one of her dollies had to go, and she'd take the dolly and set her between her legs (we did this a few times when we were learning the potty, with both of us on at once), wipe the dolly off etc. Maybe this would work with diaper changes? "Bear needs a diaper change, let's go!"
JenniferC is offline  
 
#34 of 123 Old 01-28-2006, 05:00 PM
 
blessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lots of good points here.

On a side note, I wonder about the concern over yielding to your toddler when faced with tantruming.

With our kiddo, I learned early on that if I was laying down the law about something, it was imperative for me to follow through on it. Consequently, she virtually never bothers trying to tantrum with me. She recognizes that some rules are just inflexible - car seats, holding hands at street crossings, so forth. Diaper changes are a reality of life, and so pretty much fit the category of 'tough cookie, kid. It's gotta be done'.

Most kids come to hate diaper changes. It interrupts their play, it's tedious, they feel cold and exposed. But Baby learned early on that when mom decides it's the right time, then nothing she can do is going to change that. I do play and comfort her, making it as quick and pleasant as possible. And I'm understanding and realistic about her ability to be completely cooperative at her age. If she squirms and fusses, well, she's doing the best she can. Modifications like doing the change in a standing position are a nice compromise if that seems to help.

But when she pulls away, cries or is physically resistent, she's told in firm tones "Oh no! That's not how we act. Come here please. You heard me, young lady", and so forth, all the while gently and firmly proceeding with the task at hand. She knows the diaper is getting done, period, so screaming, kicking and other drastic measures are not getting her anywhere.

I don't think it matters so much what the particular rules are. But it's so common these days to see oppositional behavior in older children, who are now labeled ADHD, and so forth. I really believe that in most cases the kids just learned early on that they can control the situation with extremes of behavior. If they fight hard enough, they get their way.

That doesn't mean that baby never gets her way. She very frequently does, but it's in the context of cooperative behavior and with my permission.

If you find it hard to get cooperation out of your two year old, just imagine what it'll be like when he's six, or ten, or seventeen.

Thoughts?
blessed is offline  
#35 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 01:21 AM
 
MissRubyandKen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Thoughts?
OK but only because you asked . This seems OT to me.

Quote:
I don't think it matters so much what the particular rules are. But it's so common these days to see oppositional behavior in older children, who are now labeled ADHD, and so forth. I really believe that in most cases the kids just learned early on that they can control the situation with extremes of behavior. If they fight hard enough, they get their way.

That doesn't mean that baby never gets her way. She very frequently does, but it's in the context of cooperative behavior and with my permission.

If you find it hard to get cooperation out of your two year old, just imagine what it'll be like when he's six, or ten, or seventeen.
oppsition-The action of opposing something that you disapprove or disagree with

My thoughts and opinions- To oppose something is normal and HEALTHY, much more so than always doing as you are told. All people are different, people learn different, have different personalities, temperaments, etc. Some people learn by watching, some listening, some doing. Some people are introverts, some extroverts, etc. etc. etc. SOME people like to LABEL people who are different than the majority. Just because a child does not fit into the neat little box of a standardized learning environment does not mean they need MEDICATED.

AND the behavior I see in a two year old has little to do with what I can expect from a six or seventeen year old. Tantrums are a behavior the average toddler displays. I find it hard to believe how the parent reacts to this one specific behavior would cause a child to have ADHD, which it sounds like you are implying. AND the OP was not talking about her dc tantruming over a chocolate bar or something anyhow, she was saying her dc doesn't like diaper changes and teeth brushing. MUCH DIFFERENT.

blogging.jpg

MissRubyandKen is offline  
#36 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 03:11 AM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Thoughts?
I think you will spice the place up. There are many of us who disagree with your authoritarian view of controlling children. Welcome to MDC.

Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#37 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 01:26 PM
 
blessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubamama
I think you will spice the place up. There are many of us who disagree with your authoritarian view of controlling children. Welcome to MDC.

Pat
Thank you. It looks as though your prediction will hold true .

It's funny. I never, ever thought my parenting would classify as 'authoritarian'. We don't spank (of course), don't yell, don't 'time out'.

What seems to work great with my girl is to explain why I'm asking for something to be a certain way. Even when she was certainly too young to understand my words, she still seemed to understand the reassuring nature of my communication. When she got hold of something sharp and tried to put in in her mouth, I could say 'oh no! That's not for babies. That will cut you if you eat it!' She would just agreeably hand over the object.

Dad was slower to figure that out, and would at first approach it more from the 'cuz I say so' stance. He'd try to pry it out of her hands, saying 'give it here!' She'd wail and resist. Then I'd say, 'oh honey, dad doesn't want you to cut yourself. That's why he's taking it away'. She'd instantly calm down and hand the item over. Once dad saw how effective that was he incorporated that approach, with equal success.

I think it astonishes me to hear a mom talk about letting her child **** and **** on the floor because she doesn't want to cope with his childish unhappiness over pausing to have his diaper changed. It seems unfair to the child, not to mention pretty nonsensical in terms of dealing with everyday life.

And I do absolutely believe in a relationship with later behaviors. If little johnnie feels disgruntled and unhappy about other situations: sitting in his desk, waiting his turn, or giving another child his toy back - well, he knows the way out of that situation. Just tantrum until you get your way. Now everybody's miserable, including little johnnie. Now teacher is asking for little johnnie to be worked up for ADHD.

Teaching patience and compromise is part of parenting.
blessed is offline  
#38 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 01:46 PM
 
MissRubyandKen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Teaching patience and compromise is part of parenting.
Well I agree with this . I show patience for my children and am willing to compromise with them , they learn what they see and are shown. I am at a loss what this has to do with a toddler tantruming though? Is doing something to a child they have expressed they don't want done compromise?

Quote:
I think it astonishes me to hear a mom talk about letting her child piss and shit on the floor because she doesn't want to cope with his childish unhappiness over pausing to have his diaper changed. It seems unfair to the child, not to mention pretty nonsensical in terms of dealing with everyday life.
There is quite a bit of room for alternatives between 'letting' a toddler use the floor and forcing a diaper on them, don't you agree? Children do sometimes go on the floor while they are learning and even after. Would you propose not helping them learn because the may go on the floor? Just curious.

Also curious-what exactly is your definition of a 'tantrum' anyway?

blogging.jpg

MissRubyandKen is offline  
#39 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 01:48 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Blessed, welcome to MDC.

I think I come at parenting much the way you do. I think that parents can be "in charge" of their children and still be disciplining gently.

I would like to add that, in the past, we have had guidance from the mods on using swear words in our posts. I'm not sure whether there is a sticky on it, but the general idea was that not everyone is comfortable with them, so they are best left out.

Namaste!
dharmamama is offline  
#40 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 01:48 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Teaching patience and compromise is part of parenting.
Perhaps, modelling patience and compromise is more effective than forcing one's will to 'teach patience and compromise'. I guess you might be surprised that others consider a "tantrum" a valid expression of valid emotions which are just as important as our own adult emotions and expressions of needs. And many here offer alternative methods of expressing the needs at the same time as meeting the underlying need, rather than disregarding the 'tantrum' while meeting our own need.

I am sure we will all learn a lot together.

Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#41 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
ShadowMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I think it astonishes me to hear a mom talk about letting her child **** and **** on the floor because she doesn't want to cope with his childish unhappiness over pausing to have his diaper changed. It seems unfair to the child, not to mention pretty nonsensical in terms of dealing with everyday life.
Wow... could you be any more offensive? Or more open in your contempt for me, the original poster?

Rather than being open for thoughts, your first post now sounds like a condescending "Oh, this stupid parent... she's coddling her child and doesn't know any better".

For your future info, "letting" children **** and **** on the floor (as you so eloquently put it) is the potty training method the rest of the world uses, rather than diapers. And, it is well known to be the best method of acquainting a diapered child with their body functions.

As for your contempt which was obviously directed at me... tantrums are a healthy way (and frequently the ONLY way) for a toddler to express their frustrations with the limitations being imposed on them. It is not simply a behavior to reinforce or not reinforce. Children aren't dogs. Dogs aren't dogs either.

You have been fed a bunch of behaviorist claptrap by our culture. Taking into account a child's desires and needs doesn't make me a pushover parent who will have a child with ADHD, as your first post strongly implies.

I'm curious... if your child developed an aversion to taking baths and had a fear of the drain, would you force them to take a bath? If you didn't, you'd just be a big pushover giving in to childish whims, and encouraging tantrums and ADHD and any number of other behavioral problems, according to your definition.
ShadowMom is offline  
#42 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 04:48 PM
 
blessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiMetz
Wow... could you be any more offensive? Or more open in your contempt for me, the original poster?
I'm sorry, Kristi. I will apologize for that. I was trying to word it in such a way as to capture how shocking that idea was to me. But I'm sorry that it came out sounding too critical, and I think that it really did .

Sure, kids accidentally go on the floor while in the midst of potty training. My daughter went on herself this morning. I had the impression that this was more a case of just giving in to your kiddo and letting him run around diaperless simply because he objected to diapers. All the while knowing that he would soil himself and the house because he really wasn't ready.

I think babies and toddlers have a pretty tough time dealing with their own negative emotions, and they really look to us to help them define what it is that they're feeling and how to deal with it. I think when kids have a knee jerk negative response to a situation, it really does them a disservice when our unwillingness to intervene serves to essentially affirm their dysfunctional reaction.

Life deals us all sorts of unpleasant situations. Our kids need the tools to govern their own feelings and reactions to them, so that they can cope with them effectively.

I can't really relate to your example about my kid being afraid of the bathtub drain, to be honest. But she does hate to have her hair washed. Rinsed, to be exact. But the first couple of times that she pitched a fit about having her hair rinsed, I didn't just stop washing her hair and let her go dirty. I talked to her and coaxed her and offered different approaches to see if one felt better than the other.

But at the end of the day, she learned that screaming and fighting with me simply doesn't grant her immunity from carrying through with unpleasant tasks. Rather, what she learned was how to manage her feelings of frustration and anger when life hands you a situation that isn't exactly to her liking.

Her angst most assuredly gets my attention and my sympathy. She knows absolutely that her distress is my distress, and that I'm doing everything I can to help ameliorate the situation for her. But she TRUSTS me to guide her through which situations are safe, which are negotiable, and which simply must be dealt with head on. When it's one of the latter, she looks to me to help her learn how to cope.

Your son needs you to help him figure out how to deal with unpleasant situations - like an unwanted diaper change.

Anyway, that's pretty much how I view it.
blessed is offline  
#43 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 07:02 PM
 
DevaMajka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 10,324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiMetz
... tantrums are a healthy way (and frequently the ONLY way) for a toddler to express their frustrations with the limitations being imposed on them. It is not simply a behavior to reinforce or not reinforce. Children aren't dogs. Dogs aren't dogs either.

You have been fed a bunch of behaviorist claptrap by our culture. Taking into account a child's desires and needs doesn't make me a pushover parent who will have a child with ADHD, as your first post strongly implies.


Anyways, I've found that if I offer ds a book to "read" for diaper changes, it almost always makes it better. And he has a tigger stuffed animal that "bounces on him" and talks to him before diaper changes.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

DevaMajka is offline  
#44 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 07:33 PM
 
georgia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tl;dr
Posts: 25,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, please refrain from using "swear" words when posting. We understand that occasionally, these words come up....but, in this instance, in this forum, I ask that anyone who has used (or quoted) the offending words, please use the edit feature at the bottom right hand corner. If you're not able to in a timely manner, I will do so.

Thanks for understanding!

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
georgia is offline  
#45 of 123 Old 01-29-2006, 07:56 PM
 
TinkerBelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed
Lots of good points here.

On a side note, I wonder about the concern over yielding to your toddler when faced with tantruming.

With our kiddo, I learned early on that if I was laying down the law about something, it was imperative for me to follow through on it. Consequently, she virtually never bothers trying to tantrum with me. She recognizes that some rules are just inflexible - car seats, holding hands at street crossings, so forth. Diaper changes are a reality of life, and so pretty much fit the category of 'tough cookie, kid. It's gotta be done'.

Most kids come to hate diaper changes. It interrupts their play, it's tedious, they feel cold and exposed. But Baby learned early on that when mom decides it's the right time, then nothing she can do is going to change that. I do play and comfort her, making it as quick and pleasant as possible. And I'm understanding and realistic about her ability to be completely cooperative at her age. If she squirms and fusses, well, she's doing the best she can. Modifications like doing the change in a standing position are a nice compromise if that seems to help.

But when she pulls away, cries or is physically resistent, she's told in firm tones "Oh no! That's not how we act. Come here please. You heard me, young lady", and so forth, all the while gently and firmly proceeding with the task at hand. She knows the diaper is getting done, period, so screaming, kicking and other drastic measures are not getting her anywhere.

I don't think it matters so much what the particular rules are. But it's so common these days to see oppositional behavior in older children, who are now labeled ADHD, and so forth. I really believe that in most cases the kids just learned early on that they can control the situation with extremes of behavior. If they fight hard enough, they get their way.

That doesn't mean that baby never gets her way. She very frequently does, but it's in the context of cooperative behavior and with my permission.

If you find it hard to get cooperation out of your two year old, just imagine what it'll be like when he's six, or ten, or seventeen.

Thoughts?


Thank you. I am with you on this one. I do not think it is going to ruin a child for life to be told "no" on certain things. I think you can be firm and yet still kind and gentle with your children.

Honestly, I do not even understand why this is such a huge discussion, although I will say it is interesting (as are most discussions here) and informative. Unless your child is ready for potty training, then you have no other alternative to diapers, unless you do not mind poop and pee all over your house. I think I can safely say most of us would probably draw the line at that.

To the OP. It sounds like you have a handle on this thing and I just say to do what you think is best. My middle son has Autism and was not potty trained until right after he turned 5. Of course that is normal with Autism, but I was relieved when he decided to finally do it. And no, I never punished, yelled or said anything rude to him about it. I do not believe in punishing and belittling a child for potty training accidents.
TinkerBelle is offline  
#46 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 12:39 PM
 
georgia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tl;dr
Posts: 25,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I edited the posts that contained offensive words. Ordinarily, I wouldn't edit anyone else's posts, but in this instance, in an effort to keep the posts on the boards, rather than removing them entirely, I edited. Again, please refrain from using vulgarities, even if it is to make a point or in quoting. Let's remember some of us have older children reading over our shoulders

Please PM me if you have any further questions. Thanks!

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
georgia is offline  
#47 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 02:11 PM
 
aira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: missing the Grandmother Lodge
Posts: 2,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(all bolding mine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed
Our kids need the tools to govern their own feelings and reactions to them, so that they can cope with them effectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed
Her angst most assuredly gets my attention and my sympathy. She knows absolutely that her distress is my distress, and that I'm doing everything I can to help ameliorate the situation for her. But she TRUSTS me to guide her through which situations are safe, which are negotiable, and which simply must be dealt with head on. When it's one of the latter, she looks to me to help her learn how to cope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed
Diaper changes are a reality of life, and so pretty much fit the category of 'tough cookie, kid. It's gotta be done'.


Uhhh, what?



Let's just say, I'm glad you're not the one "teaching" my little one anything. Wow!

__________________________________________________ _________

Kay, has anything happened since the OP? Any changes (pun intended ) or progress?
aira is offline  
#48 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 02:40 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aira
Let's just say, I'm glad you're not the one "teaching" my little one anything. Wow!
I think that parents can teach kids that some things in life are non-negotiable and model for kids how to accept and deal with the situation and their feelings about it.

I subscribe to the "tough cookie, kid, it has to be done" school of thought for some things in life, but that doesn't mean that I don't work to help my kids to understand their feelings and help them deal with those feelings. I think it's important for parents to teach kids that 1) they won't always get their way 2) sometimes you just have to suck it up 3) you can manage feelings without a great big noisy fuss.

That doesn't mean I am cold and unfeeling towards my kids and their feelings. It just means that I don't think that contorting myself into strange shapes and tolerating emotional outbursts is always the best way to go. Sometimes I am extremely flexible. But other times, I am not. And I expect that my kids learn to express their feelings in ways that don't involve tantrums.

Namaste!
dharmamama is offline  
#49 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 02:47 PM
 
aira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: missing the Grandmother Lodge
Posts: 2,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I'm glad you're not "teaching" my DC either.

That stuff I quoted was truely dizzying.


And if I weren't so busy contorting myself around DS, then just how would I get any exercize?
aira is offline  
#50 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 02:54 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aira
Well, I'm glad you're not "teaching" my DC either.
Well, honestly, I am glad you're not teaching my dc. But where does that conversation get us? You can disagree with people without being rude to them personally.

Namaste!
dharmamama is offline  
#51 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 02:58 PM
 
DevaMajka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 10,324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
oh, to the op- I realized that when I go to change ds, I ask him to help lift his bottom up and he thinks that's fun. I say "bottom's up" (because that's funny to me lol) and he goes on with raising his butt up, then down (I say bottom's down). He does it over and over, and I just fasten the diaper any ways I can. lol
That and giving him a book to look at. And waiting until he's at a stopping point in whatever activity is important to him at the moment.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

DevaMajka is offline  
#52 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 03:00 PM
 
aira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: missing the Grandmother Lodge
Posts: 2,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK. I just don't find it so terrible that you wouldn't want me teaching your kids, so I'm at a disadvantage in avoiding that "rudeness".

I just don't find it rude when directed at me...

I think my point in post #47 was valid, and doesn't deserve to be sidetracked.
aira is offline  
#53 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 03:06 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aira
I think my point in post #47 was valid, and doesn't deserve to be sidetracked.
I think your point would have been much better made had you actually made a point and not just tried to jab the poster. You might as well have added "neener neener neener plbbbbbbbbt!" to your post.

Namaste!
dharmamama is offline  
#54 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 03:18 PM
 
The4OfUs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 4,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama
I subscribe to the "tough cookie, kid, it has to be done" school of thought for some things in life, but that doesn't mean that I don't work to help my kids to understand their feelings and help them deal with those feelings. I think it's important for parents to teach kids that 1) they won't always get their way 2) sometimes you just have to suck it up 3) you can manage feelings without a great big noisy fuss.

That doesn't mean I am cold and unfeeling towards my kids and their feelings. It just means that I don't think that contorting myself into strange shapes and tolerating emotional outbursts is always the best way to go. Sometimes I am extremely flexible. But other times, I am not. And I expect that my kids learn to express their feelings in ways that don't involve tantrums.

Namaste!
I thiknk I'm falling somewhere in the middle, here. I don't feel comfortable with the "tough cookies, kid" thing...however, having said that, I am not against coercing my child in some situations, or 'making' him do things sometimes....but, I do not ever try to control his expression of feelings, as I think it's healthy for him to get them out. I will empathize with him and say, "Boy, you're mad because X, I understand but we need to Y for Z reason." But I never tell him his outbursts are unacceptable...as he gets older, I will teach him more constructive ways to express his anger, but I never want him to stifle it.

To me, "tough cookies" means I don't care what he's feeling, and that is definitely not the case. I do care what he's feeling, I do validate his feelings, and even if he isn't getting his "way", I let him know I understand where he's coming from (but I don't get overly melodramatic about it). I think that, in combination with me just kind of getting things done without lots of drama and maintaining a calm, gentle demeanor, lets him know that he won't always 'get his way' without being quite so harsh as 'tough cookies', that it's OK for him to not like what's going on, but that it will still be getting done, and that he has the ability and resiliance to get over minor disappointments (though with toddler tantrums, they all seem like life-altering events, don't they? ).

I do have to respectfully say that this

Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed
"Oh no! That's not how we act. Come here please. You heard me, young lady"
makes me feel icky...it gives me a "don't be a bad girl", or "nice girls don't X" vibe, which I don't like....falls too far to authoritarian (vs. authoritative) for me.

Back OT, with DS, he's disliked getting his diaper changed laying down since he was about 12 months, maybe 14, so we've been changing pee diapers standing (with pull up sposies) since then. I do insist on changing poop diapers lying down, because we've had some incidents where poop ends up in bizarre places and we don't always see it right away - long story, won't get into it... So anyway, he is free to stand and do whatever while I do the pees, but when he poops, that's a lay down for the wiping. The pants come off and then the new diaper goes on and redressed standing, but the actual cleaning of the dirty diaper happens lying down...but on the floor, I haven't used a changing table with him since he was about 12 months. AND, when he does protest, I sympathize with him, "I know, you hate laying down and having me clean up poops", tell him, "I'm almost done, then you can stand up", and then thank him when we're done. This doesn't mean that he always happily cooperates, but to me it's not really an option - poopy diapers get changed and cleaned ASAP. But, I don't feel like I'm giving the "tough noogies" vibe, because I'm certainly recognizing the fact he doesn't like it, and letting him know it will be over as quickly as possible.

OK, so once again, I rambled. How shocking.
Just my opinion, FWIW.

Heather, WAHM to DS (01/04)DD (06/06). Wed to DH(09/97)
The4OfUs is offline  
#55 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 03:30 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donosmommy04
but I never want him to stifle it.
I don't want my kids to stifle their feelings, either. Nor do I want them screaming at me in a rage. I think that kids can taught that "It's ok to tell me how you're feeling like this but not like that."

Namaste!
dharmamama is offline  
#56 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 03:35 PM
 
The4OfUs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 4,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama
I don't want my kids to stifle their feelings, either. Nor do I want them screaming at me in a rage. I think that kids can taught that "It's ok to tell me how you're feeling like this but not like that."

Namaste!
True, true - that's what I meant when I mentioned teaching him appropriate ways to express his anger...I think we're actually relatively close on this one, really! Didn't mean my post as an attack. Sorry if it came out that way.

Heather, WAHM to DS (01/04)DD (06/06). Wed to DH(09/97)
The4OfUs is offline  
#57 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 03:48 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Ladies, ladies, ladies, claws in. I think the point was how contradicting the messages in the quotes were: I care what you think/feel and I am doing what I can to ameliorate it but I am going to do what I want regardless and I call that 'helping you to cope with your emotions'.

Seems dismissive of the child's emotions when they are protesting what is being done *to their body* against their will. How is continuing to act, not disregard? How is it "non-negotiable" when one person is choosing to *do it* to another.......oh! , "it is for their own good". Right That sounded sarcastic. Hmmm...... I guess the mixed message is basically lying to the child, imo. The actions are not consistent with the "reassurance". This seems like psychological manipulation of the verbal message to dissociate from the reality of one's actions.

Actions speak louder than words. Is the child learning to disregard another's emotions to get their way? We really choose to keep looking for the common preference because then we are looking for a solution which works for both parties, because these are the skills they need in the world and in other relationships. And I don't think that precludes changing the diaper. Warm wipes, softer wipes, standing up, toys to engage, tv show, a snack, etc. Bullying ahead isn't necessary.

Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#58 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 04:04 PM
 
georgia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tl;dr
Posts: 25,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Per the User Agreement:

Quote:
You are expected to avoid the following when you post:

Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
Let's get back to the diapering/discipline discussion at hand, please. Personal comments about who's not teaching whom can be taken to PM

Thanks!

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
georgia is offline  
#59 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 04:05 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama
I don't want my kids to stifle their feelings, either. Nor do I want them screaming at me in a rage. I think that kids can taught that "It's ok to tell me how you're feeling like this but not like that."

Namaste!
I agree with helping our son to find alternative means of expressing himself in a manner in which I wish to be addressed. However, if I am disregarding his body space integrity against his will, I don't quite expect a young child to say 'excuse me please, but I asked you to stop doing that (taking off my clothes for example) and you keep forcing me to do it anyway.' I would expect if a child had expressed dissent about me doing something to his body, and I kept doing it without listening and honoring his expression of protest, that he, like most of us would not be so "constructive" in his 'expression of anger'. I'd completely expect that if someone were physcially doing something to my body (taking off my clothes for example) and I was telling them to stop, I might want to scream at them in a rage, if they KEPT doing it! Wouldn't you?



Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#60 of 123 Old 01-30-2006, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
ShadowMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aira
Kay, has anything happened since the OP? Any changes (pun intended ) or progress?
Thanks for asking. Things have actually gotten a bit better. I lay him down on my bed to change him so he can watch the one video he likes to watch while he gets changed.

I don't really like changing him on my bed... even though there's a changing pad there, it seems kind of yucky to me. But, I will happily do it if it makes everyone happy.

I am not sure how healthy it is to *distract* him as a means of making him give in and let me do something which he really seems to protest against. It is one thing to do this with a 1 year old who is just irritated at being interrupted... it is another to do this to someone who is over 2 (he's almost 26 months) and is very aware of what he does and does not want being done to his body.

I can't escape the feeling that if I had been just a little more patient, and not such a grumpy old hag, and kept him out of diapers for a few days, maybe he would have just decided to use the potty. I will have to think on this some more. I felt really bad at hollering at him for peeing on the floor (and it was the KITCHEN floor, for crying out loud) and I definitely didn't want that precedent to continue.

So, I guess to answer your question, diaper changes no longer involve lots of screaming and writhing and anger, but neither do I feel I chose the right solution.

Perhaps I need to meditate on this some more.
ShadowMom is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 14,861

28 members and 14,833 guests
blessedwithboys , Deborah , Erica Sandwall , IsaFrench , JElaineB , jennykess , lhargrave89 , lisak1234 , MamaNika , manyhatsmom , Michele123 , Mirzam , moominmamma , MountainMamaGC , NumberDigit1 , PortlandRose , redsally , RollerCoasterMama , rubelin , samaxtics , Skippy918 , sren , transylvania_mom , zebra15
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.