Does Gental discipline=No discipline?? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 04:35 PM
 
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I hate to come across rude but it really really really grates my hide when people think that GD means no dicipline...if it mean no dicipline..it would be called ND - not GD! lol

For me it starts from respecting and trusting your child before they are even born! Set a good example for them! And dont expect too much too soon. Also - dont stress on the small stuff!

I have yet to punish my child, spank him, hit him, degrade him, etc...

And he is a very loving, kind, well mannered, respectable, respecting, bright young man! Why? Because I have treated him as an individual, with respect and kindness from the moment he was born!

A great example I have of this is how he says thank you, etc... I have never MADE him say 'thank you', I have never punished him for not saying 'thank you' either... I have always respected him, I have said it to him, and because of this - he has learned from me.

Also - because of all of this...me respecting my son, treating him as an equal person, etc... If he 'tests' a new behaviour (hmm..what happens when I pull the cats tail?)... all I have to do is kindly tell him that we dont do that, show him what we do, and then thank him for his kindness....in return I get a kind boy who listens to me - becuase I trust him, he trusts me. Its a wonderful circle!

I think also alot of things that need 'dicipline' are best given by mother nature herself. I can leave a cup of coffee out on the table and not worry about my son knocking it over or grabbing at it etc, becaues he knows its 'hot'...and though he hasnt had to learn this the 'hard way' (I wouldnt put my child in danger!) - he has learned this with a helping hand from mother nature. lol

I think a lot of people have this attitude that children are not to be trusted and they are younger so thefore dont know better and need to treated as 'less'...which is where I think it all goes wrong!

I feel my only job is to help show my son the way.
We are doing well so far...and I am at the 'terrifc twos'!...(oh yes - we like to be positive positive positive! hehe)

And the idea is...hopefully...through all of this now. This relationship we have...will bloom and grow with him. So that when hes older he is confidnt in himself to do the right thing because is the right thing to do.

Mummy me : > Thats Ann! and my beautiful SONS Duncanand Hamish 19/09/05 & 22/04/10!
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#92 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 04:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
all I have to do is kindly tell him that we dont do that, show him what we do, and then thank him for his kindness....in return I get a kind boy who listens to me - becuase I trust him, he trusts me. Its a wonderful circle!
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I think that one thing you are forgetting is innate temperament. When my extremely strong-willed child was two, she was delightful. When she turned three, she became extremely demanding, and she has a will of titanium. When she was two, she had such amazing verbal skills that she could get what she wanted because she knew how to ask for it. When she turned three, her desires became more complex and her excellent verbal skills couldn't necessarily make up for her physical limitations or her limited understanding of what's practical and possible.

My kid is a great kid, but she's got a personality of her own, and it's not nearly so simple as "we trust each other so life is good."

dm
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#93 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 05:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Stayathomemommy View Post
After reading some posts and trying to figure out exactly what GD means i feel like it = no discipline. GD is a wonderful theory but from what i have seen when parents use this form of "discipline" it usually means their kids run the show and arnt respectful of any adult or authority figure. I really think its for the chilrens own good that they have consistancy, rules, and real discipline (none of which needs to be done with spanking, name calling, or hurting our child emotionally). Can GD be all those things too?? Does GD mean no concequences, no punishment for bad behavior?? what wrong with taking away privilages??
I have found alot of GD to be too idealistic to work in real life for my family. But I totally can feel the love.

I wish I could provide for everyones needss all the time and we lived on a puffy white cloud and harmony abounds.

Of course, I am human so thats not happening at my house.

I LOVE to read GD threads though because even though its mostly way too soft to work for me, I still learn something I can apply.
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#94 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 05:36 PM
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Wow this is a crazy old thread

Anyway, whether or not GD means "no discipline" depends on how you define "discipline". We don't hit, yell, punish, time-out, shame, manipulate, have arbitrary rules or imposed consequences. If any of that is how one defines "discipline", then we would look like one of those families who has "no" discipline.

If you see discipline as an act of learning and modeling self-discipline -- including but not limited to: respectful exchanges, modeling of socially appropriate and respectful behavior, lots of safe learning opportunities, lots of opportunity to explore, creating a "yes" environment, honoring our boundaries and teaching dd how to honor her own, knowledge of and respect for age and developmentally appropriate behvavior, ongoing discussions where almost all needs and wants of all family members are considered and honored, discussing and modeling non-violent communication,displaying unconditional love regardless of behavior by putting the relationship first, trusting our child's abilities to know herself and so much more.... then yeah, we use a lot of discipline.

Discipline and punishment are interchangable words to many people, so to those people, our method of *discipline* probably looks like no discipline -- because to them, it isn't discipline unless someone is learning through a painful process.

We recognize and embrace the knowledge that learning and even modifying of behaviors (though the latter is not our goal, it is often a fringe benefit) can come about joyously, or at the very least, without painful or punitive measures.

So I guess to answer your question "Does GD mean no discipline??" I would say, depends on who is asking, who is answering, and how they both define *discipline* -- so it is no wonder that the replies vary so much.
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#95 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 06:01 PM
 
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oOOOOooo...That is so very well put Captain Crunchy!

and darhmamama...

Quote:
When my extremely strong-willed child was two, she was delightful. When she turned three, she became extremely demanding, and she has a will of titanium. When she was two, she had such amazing verbal skills that she could get what she wanted because she knew how to ask for it.
Wish my ds had any verbal skills! lol... I know what frustration is like, and yes he does have tantrums because of this - but none of these things need 'dicipline' (or punishment), just guidance..and one again my respect and trust for us to all get through it and come out better at the the other end.

He has a pesonality of his own as well. I dont want him to 'mind' me...I want him to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. And I really dont think you can get that without trust and respect. Because he trust me he listens to me as that is all I have shown him in return for my respect for him...if he didnt trust me, he would continue to 'pull the cats tail' (as example) and the cat would soon show him why he shouldnt do that! lol Sometimes we hit a hard spot and need a bit of help, but compared to the many parents I know who try and 'dicipline' without trust and/or respect for their child - our 'problems' are trivial! lol

I am more used to calling this Positive Dicipline, rather than GD! lol

Mummy me : > Thats Ann! and my beautiful SONS Duncanand Hamish 19/09/05 & 22/04/10!
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#96 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 06:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Stayathomemommy View Post
After reading some posts and trying to figure out exactly what GD means i feel like it = no discipline. GD is a wonderful theory but from what i have seen when parents use this form of "discipline" it usually means their kids run the show and arnt respectful of any adult or authority figure. I really think its for the chilrens own good that they have consistancy, rules, and real discipline (none of which needs to be done with spanking, name calling, or hurting our child emotionally). Can GD be all those things too?? Does GD mean no concequences, no punishment for bad behavior?? what wrong with taking away privilages??
I use the term GD when i talk about it on forums but in real life I'm not a fan of the word discipline. If you're disciplined you're controlled and theres no room for control in my relationship with my child. However that doesnt mean he doesnt recieve any guidance. Hes new to this world and needs to learn that some things you just dont do. I do that by teaching through example though and if he does something inappropriate (eg hitting) then I explain to him how that makes others feel etc and we will also discuss it at a later time when we arent in the heat of the moment. Thats something Im just starting but I find it gives him the opportunity to tell me why he did it and together we can think of ways to handle similar situations next time.

Its far from the case in our family that ds runs the show BUT we dont rule him either. Rather we co-operate with each other and respect each others needs. Obviously theres always exceptions i mean hes not even 3 yet but i'm confident that hes learning that other people matter and that must mean he matters too. He amazes me wometimes how well he gets that concept and if he accidently hurts me or damages something his first reaction is always 'sorry' and he will see what he can do to put it right so theres a lot of respect there for my feelings too.

I dont think strict rules are neccesary either. You have rules you need consequences when theyre broken and since rules arent always broken deliberately thats unfair. You do need expectations though - and there is a difference. For example one expectation I have of Adam is that he treats me as I treat him and doesnt do anything that will hurt me. Sometimes he wont live up to that expectation but then I just remind him why I expect that of him. He still learns hitting isnt acceptable and theres no need for mainstream discipline. As for consistency - it can be over-rated. If Im trying so hard to be consistent in my reactions I'm not being true to myself or him. Sometimes whilst something may work one time it may not be appropriate another and you have to adapt your response to fit. I cant think of an example off the top of my head but basically i dont want to get so caught up with trying to be consistant that our relationship loses any sponataneity (sp?) and I become less able to adapt to different situations iyswim.

As for taking away priveledges i believe any sort of punishment makes the child do good for fear of being punished whether that be losing priveledges or being smacked. It doesnt really help children learn right from wrong just that behaving a certain way benefits them. I'd rather my child behaved well because he considered other people and knew what it meant to do good and not through self interest.
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#97 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 06:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
I dont want him to 'mind' me...I want him to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.
That's what I want for my kids, too. I have always encouraged my children to make their own choices based on the information available to them. Sometimes I think that has come back to bite me in the butt!

My point was not that I punish my kids for tantrums or that trust isn't a good thing. What I was trying to get across is that, regardless of how well you and your kids trust one another or how wonderful your relationship is, some kids have stronger personalities than other and some are hard-wired to test the limits, and then test them again, and again, and again, and again, so the idea that kids will do the right thing simply because their trusted parent tells them what the right thing is is, to me, a bit simplistic and doesn't take into account that some kids are extremely strong-willed no matter how much they trust you. I'm not talking about things one might punish a child for. I am talking about kids who have a "my way or the highway" personality who make daily life difficult because they are bound and determined to get their way. There seems to be an idea here at MDC that kids can be parented out of this if one simply applies the magic MDC (tm) patented parenting philosophy, but I don't think that's true. Kids are who they are, due to nurture, certainly, but also due to nature, and, although I think my point has meandered away from the original intent of this thread, the idea that "My kid is delightful because of the way I parent" seems, to me, a little naive.

If I misread your original post, please forgive me, but
Quote:
And he is a very loving, kind, well mannered, respectable, respecting, bright young man! Why? Because I have treated him as an individual, with respect and kindness from the moment he was born!
lead me to believe that's what you were saying.

dm
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#98 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 06:37 PM
 
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GD means different things to different parents and families.
There are those of us here of every shade of the spectrum.
In my home discipline is how you describe. GD is about no spanking, yelling, shaming, and about being aware of my childrens needs and abilities.
In other homes you will likely find GD defined differently.
Me too.
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#99 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 06:50 PM
 
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I think any discipline style where you don't use shame or physical force to get your kids to do what you want can fall under the GD umbrella.

I do try to be consensual and I don't punish, but I don't think either is a necessary ingredient to GD. And I don't parent the way I do for effectiveness; I do it because my moral code tells me that's the way I should treat other people, and my daughter is a person.

I do not always parent consensually, as much as I try. There are times where we aren't able to reach a consensus, but I think it's more due to us being tired or cranky than because a good answer wasn't out there somewhere. We had an issue over the bike helmet and it wasn't perfect in the consensual living way. I said that I couldn't let ride her bike without a helmet, but I'd be willing to let her try on different helmets or something. I thought she might have outgrown her helmet and it might not have been comfortable anymore. She decided if she just wore a headband with the helmet she'd be happy. It was apparently an issue of sweat. But I did put my foot down and say whatever we came up with was going to involve a helmet on her head. If push would have come to shove, she wouldn't have been riding her bike without her helmet on her head.

And my daughter is always a delight, but she does not always behave in a delightful manner. How I deal with that changes from moment to moment, but I don't punish. Sometimes I have to give myself a bit of a timeout because I get very angry and I'm afraid I might start screaming at her if I don't give myself a breather. But I don't give her timeouts. I don't take away privileges. I don't force anything. We work together to figure out how problems are solved.
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#100 of 104 Old 10-07-2007, 11:23 PM
 
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Soooo, it just occurred to me that this thread is from JANUARY lol, I never paid attention to the date. A little odd of me to be subbing on a unactive thread, huh? LOL!

But since it's now active again I am SUBBING for real haha
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#101 of 104 Old 10-08-2007, 12:15 AM
 
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Soooo, it just occurred to me that this thread is from JANUARY lol,
Jan. '06!
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#102 of 104 Old 10-08-2007, 08:15 AM
 
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I do understand that it comes down to both nature and nurture. And though what I said may come across as niaive - my point is that my son wouldnt be all of those things if I didnt 'parent' the way I do -use GD for example! Not that he is the way he is only because of the way I parent...if that makes any sense!

Mummy me : > Thats Ann! and my beautiful SONS Duncanand Hamish 19/09/05 & 22/04/10!
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#103 of 104 Old 10-08-2007, 09:59 AM
 
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I believe discipline should be used in the sense of "to teach."

GD absolutely can work. I know some very well-behaved children who are being raised with GD.
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#104 of 104 Old 10-08-2007, 11:02 AM
 
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I use the term GD when i talk about it on forums but in real life I'm not a fan of the word discipline. If you're disciplined you're controlled and theres no room for control in my relationship with my child.
Discipline means "to Disciple" or "to teach" (but I understand thats not what most mainstream parents use it as.)

I belive that you do need to control your childrens boundrys.

I also think that the best way to teach is to act out the way you want them to act. I have found that my little ones are like little mirrors of me.

And its so hard to "act right" all the time.
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