OMG, I just saw my first SuperNanny episode - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 05:51 PM
 
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the kids have to say sorry like they mean it in order to get out of the naughty chair. it seems like a lesson in emotion repression and how to b s your parents. that forced apology annoys me more than the naughty chair, i think.
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#62 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 06:01 PM
 
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Yeahhhhh.. i don't really agree with the naughty spot/chair thing... HOWEVER...
when your ds or dd pushes another child, or hurts them... do you not think its right that they say sorry?
I know i tell my son to say sorry and let him know that he hurt that little boy or girl, even if it was an accident..
sometimes it nice to hear "sorry" even if its not fully backed up with emotion
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#63 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 07:13 PM
 
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Children don't like being told they can't do something when they are used to getting away with it
This, to me, sounds like you don't believe that children are innately "good." "Getting away with" something sounds an awful lot like you're viewing the children as conspirators?

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sometimes it nice to hear "sorry" even if its not fully backed up with emotion
I completely disagree. I'd rather hear nothing than an insincere apology.

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do you not think its right that they say sorry?
"Right?" by whose standards? To me, it feels right to check if the person is okay--and if the person who did the harm is really feeling remorse, then s/he will most likely say they're sorry or similar. If they don't, well, it's better than a child being forced to to save face for the parents or b/c someone is telling them to. Doesn't feel right to me. YMMV

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#64 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 08:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
but at the end, the kids are all happy anyways and the family is in a better state.
Ah, the magic of editing.
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#65 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 08:36 PM
 
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getting away with something means the child is doing something they SHOULDN'T be doing and the parent is allowing them to do it anyways because they don't care to discipline them, or they feel the child should do whatever it wants.

Are you telling me that you don't teach your children how to say sorry? That is what im getting out of it.

My son is TAUGHT that when he hurts someone accidentally or purposely, it is NOT ok to walk away and pretend nothing happened. EXSPECIALLY if that child is crying or actually really hurt.

If that child hit my son first and he acted in self defense and hit him back then no i am not going to ask my son to appologize.

However he needs to realize it is not ok to knock someone over and walk away.

Tending to the person to see if they are ok is showing remorse for your actions, otherwise you wouldn't care if they are ok. So it is being sorry for what you did, so yes, i expect him to say "im sorry" to that child and let him know that he feels bad about it..
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#66 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 08:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
getting away with something means the child is doing something they SHOULDN'T be doing and the parent is allowing them to do it anyways because they don't care to discipline them, or they feel the child should do whatever it wants.
Yes, sometimes kids do what WE (adults) think they should not be doing. They (kids) think they should be doing it, otherwise, why would they do it? (sorry for : sentence)

I try to figure out WHY they think they should be doing it and present my POV. Most of the times they (kids) decide that indeed it was not a good idea. Sometimes not. How can I "discipline" them into believing something they don't?

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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
Are you telling me that you don't teach your children how to say sorry? That is what im getting out of it.
The way I teach my kids is by modeling saying "sorry" in the situations that warrant it. "Making" them say it does not teach them anything.

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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
My son is TAUGHT that when he hurts someone accidentally or purposely, it is NOT ok to walk away and pretend nothing happened. EXSPECIALLY if that child is crying or actually really hurt.
Absolutely. I believe we are discussing the methods of teaching here, not the absence/presence of teaching
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#67 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 09:00 PM
 
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i dont grab him and say "SAY SORRY!" ... instead i let him see the little boy/girl crying and tell him that he HURT the little boy / girl and tell him the word sorry, he doesnt say it all the time, but sometimes he gets it.

I don't make him stand there until he says sorry, if he takes off on me i end up appologizing to the parent myself.
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#68 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 09:01 PM
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You know, I have seen you refer to children as "it" more than once jaydens_mom... Being a believer that words and how we use them are very important, I wonder if that doesn't convey an underlying view of children in general. Not that you feel children are *its* per se, but that you see them as lesser in some way and don't deserve to be afforded the same rights as adults with regard to personal autonomy.

Anyway, no, I will never make my daughter apologize. With everything else, we model, model, model how we like to be treated. As I see her little imagination emerging, I see this kind of play acted out already in her people and animals (toys)... she will knock one of them over, make some sympathetic sounds and another animal/person helps the *victim* up and gives hugs. We have never forced this or told her what to do....

We model how we like to be treated and treat her how we feel *most* humans like to be treated --- with respect, dignity, and equality.

When someone is hurt, even at the hands of my daughter (taking a toy from a child who then cries for example) -- my husband or myself model behavior we feel is appropriate... we go to the *victim* make sure they are okay, apologize, see if they need anything (a hug, the toy back, etc) then we provide our daughter with information in a non-punitive, observational way --- "Johnny seemed upset when you took his toy, did you see him crying? Johnny didn't like it when you took his toy." Then offer possible solutions with no pressure --- "would you like to play with this toy instead?" --- or if our daughter seems to be seeking a connection with the other child, we encourage that too, but never, ever tell her to give him/her a hug or *say sorry* or whatever.
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#69 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 09:19 PM
 
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I believe i used *it* when refering to a child, once in my posts in this thread...

"getting away with something means the child is doing something they SHOULDN'T be doing and the parent is allowing them to do it anyways because they don't care to discipline them, or they feel the child should do whatever it wants"

I used IT because to me it doesnt sound gramatically correct to say "or they feel the child should do whatever the child wants"
NOT because I don't see children as HUMAN BEINGS.

If i didn't see my son as a human being he would be sleeping on the floor and eating from a bowl on the floor like my cat.
BUT I DON'T SEE HIM THAT WAY.
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#70 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 09:29 PM
 
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I saw a mama tell her ds who had accidentally hit his friend with a toy "She's hurt because you accidentally hit her, what do you think might make her feel better, do you think saying "sorry" would help?" To which he sort of mumbled something that probably was sorry and she turned to the girl (girl's mama was comforting her) and said "ds says sorry".
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#71 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeDeeLenae
ITA

I'm honestly shocked at how negative everyone perceives this show. I always thought this was way better than the hitting and yelling that so many people have used before. I actually am happy to see someone saying that it's not ok to hit, yell, and fight with your kids. And, we all have to remember that most of these children came from a time of NO discipline. Sometimes to get something through to the children, you have to start out being a little harsher. I'm sure had they just pulled the kid aside and said "Your behavior is not ok," that kid would have hit, kicked, or spit in their face and walked away. Especially if you're starting this with a much older child.

Now, while I don't totally agree with everything she does, I think her solutions are much better than what the parents were doing ahead of time.

There's no question that "the naughty corner" is a far preferable alternative to screaming and physical abuse, to be sure. However, to use an analogy here, it's like an 800-pound person who's lost half her body weight through persistent diet and exercise: she is to be commended, absolutely, for losing the weight she has and for making the improvements she has...however, there is also no question that at 400 pounds, she is still unhealthy and has a long way to go. Similarly, though the "naughty corner" is better than hitting, there's definitely room for improvement.
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#72 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 09:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
There's no question that "the naughty corner" is a far preferable alternative to screaming and physical abuse, to be sure. However, to use an analogy here, it's like an 800-pound person who's lost half her body weight through persistent diet and exercise: she is to be commended, absolutely, for losing the weight she has and for making the improvements she has...however, there is also no question that at 400 pounds, she is still unhealthy and has a long way to go. Similarly, though the "naughty corner" is better than hitting, there's definitely room for improvement.
well said

 
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#73 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 10:09 PM
 
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we don't force apologies in our house either. We model them. The same is true for my DDs preschool and I am so thankful for that. I will often say to my girls "oh I am so sorry that ____ hurt you" however I will not force any of my children to say sorry when they don't mean it. They learn it through seeing it and I can safely say that 5 year old knows when to say sorry and she always means it
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#74 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 10:12 PM
 
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Fessing up, I watch it sometimes w/my kids. We discuss what's happening and why we think the kids & parents are acting like that. THey're actually kind of amused by it although we talk about how sad they must feel "inside."

Newest one I've seen referenced is the "naughty beanbag."
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#75 of 86 Old 08-15-2006, 10:25 PM
 
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we don't force apologies in our house either. We model them.
We strive to do the same.

IMO, I like to think of children as learners rather than parents as teachers, if that makes sense

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#76 of 86 Old 08-16-2006, 01:03 AM
 
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Yeah, I don't like the forced apologies. I have used the naughty seat/ time out thing at times, but I don't *like* the forced apologies. It seems wrong to me. That said, I have at times told my 2.5 yr old to apologize to her sister; it seems like a good thing to learn the habit of apologizing for wrongs. But certainly not in place of teaching her the consequences...."Look, Catherine is crying. She's sad and frustrated because you took her toy. You don't like it when she takes your toys. It makes you sad, just like you made Catherine sad by taking her toy. How about you go tell her you're sorry. Sometimes saying you're sorry can make people feel better." I worry that that isn't the right thing to do either....but I know societally that people will like my dd better if she apologizes for wrongs, just like they will like her better if she says please and thank you. And while I don't want to do something just because society expects it, I do want people to like my dd, because it will make her life easier. While I try to inculcate the value of gratitude, I'm also trying to teach the *habit* of saying thank you, even if there is not overwhelming gratitude at the moment. I dunno if it's the right thing to do. What do you guys think?

I also agree that it's demeaning for the poor families to have their issues on display for entertainment. I think it's wrong that the only way these families who so desperately need help can get it is by selling their souls and making voyeurs of us all. I wish there was a sorta free, open to the public, GD Supernanny who would come, where it wasn't televised or anything. Like a public service. I'd get excited about that!
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#77 of 86 Old 08-16-2006, 01:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Terabith
Yeah, I don't like the forced apologies. I have used the naughty seat/ time out thing at times, but I don't *like* the forced apologies. It seems wrong to me. That said, I have at times told my 2.5 yr old to apologize to her sister; it seems like a good thing to learn the habit of apologizing for wrongs. But certainly not in place of teaching her the consequences...."Look, Catherine is crying. She's sad and frustrated because you took her toy. You don't like it when she takes your toys. It makes you sad, just like you made Catherine sad by taking her toy. How about you go tell her you're sorry. Sometimes saying you're sorry can make people feel better." I worry that that isn't the right thing to do either....but I know societally that people will like my dd better if she apologizes for wrongs, just like they will like her better if she says please and thank you. And while I don't want to do something just because society expects it, I do want people to like my dd, because it will make her life easier. While I try to inculcate the value of gratitude, I'm also trying to teach the *habit* of saying thank you, even if there is not overwhelming gratitude at the moment. I dunno if it's the right thing to do. What do you guys think?

I also agree that it's demeaning for the poor families to have their issues on display for entertainment. I think it's wrong that the only way these families who so desperately need help can get it is by selling their souls and making voyeurs of us all. I wish there was a sorta free, open to the public, GD Supernanny who would come, where it wasn't televised or anything. Like a public service. I'd get excited about that!


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#78 of 86 Old 08-16-2006, 01:53 AM
 
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To Whom It May Concern,

Here are 300+ opinions (in one thread) about modelling, teaching and imposing "manners": http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=manners




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#79 of 86 Old 08-18-2006, 09:26 PM
 
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I saw one of these shows for the first time yesterday. First it scared me to death that I would somehow end up with a child that hit, kicked, spit, etc. What drove me batty was that the nanny kept talking about treating the children with respect but all the while was belittling the mom and her parenting. Statements like "this is all your fault" and "you brought this upon yourself" might be partly true but not very respectful. I felt bad for her because she got very defensive. I would have just cried...
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#80 of 86 Old 08-18-2006, 09:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by melissel
The NAUGHTY CORNER? The kids are totally acting out to get their parents' attention. The parents are supposed to put them in the "naughty corner" as a punishment. Of course what ends up happening is that the kids inevitably take off running and the parents are supposed to chase them around the house and keep physically putting them back. Um, hello? What is that accomplishing, except that the kids are still getting the negative attention they were gunning for in the first place? Seriously, do people really do this? I'm completely floored and nauseous. These poor kids are so desperate for their parents' attention, and what they're getting is dropped on their butts to cry in a corner until they apologize to their parents. I am so sad for these kids, and for all the kids of the parents who are going to take this cr@p as expert advice and implement it

The nanny did have some good insight for this family, but I am seriously horrified at this "solution" she gave them.
What do you do then? Just let kids get away with unacceptable behavior? I am at a loss I put my son in the corner and tell him to think about it. If he has hit or been loud and woke up his sister or just completely ignored what I have asked him to do.
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#81 of 86 Old 08-19-2006, 04:04 AM
 
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What do you do then? Just let kids get away with unacceptable behavior? I am at a loss I put my son in the corner and tell him to think about it. If he has hit or been loud and woke up his sister or just completely ignored what I have asked him to do.
How you handle a situation depends on the situation, so that question is much, much too vague. However, I can tell you for certain that your son isn't learning anything by sitting in the corner, and it sounds like sometimes you're punishing him for no reason. You said you make him sit in the corner for being loud. ALL children are loud sometimes. That is no reason to ever force a child to sit in a corner and "think about it".

If your son has ignored what you asked him to do, then perhaps you haven't asked in a way that makes him want to listen. Are you really asking him or are you telling him? There is a big difference between saying, "Johnny, go pick up your toys!" and saying, "Johnny, would you like to pick your toys up right now or do you want me to help you pick them up when you're done putting that puzzle together?" If you're doing the first, then you aren't asking him - you're issuing commands. No one likes to be ordered around and no one responds well to it, either. Give options. Let him decide when and how he wants to do something or if he needs your help doing it. If you ask him to do something and he doesn't do it, so you send him to the corner, he STILL won't be doing what you wanted, because he's sitting in the corner. Furthermore, rather than learning anything useful, he'll be spending his time thinking about how angry he is at you for sending him to the corner. If, instead of issuing orders and then punishing him for not following them, you get down on his level and give him some choices, he might actually learn a little about cooperating and negotiating, which are much more valuable life skills than following orders.

I hope you stick around and read a lot in this forum. If you have specific discipline questions, ask them. Each problem has a different list of possible solutions, but sending a child away to "think about it" all on his own, generally doesn't work. It makes him feel angry and unloved, which isn't the message you want your child to get.
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#82 of 86 Old 08-21-2006, 12:24 AM
 
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i've seen quite a few episodes of supernanny, and one stands out in particular.

It was a family of 7 kids....the dad was military, and the mom was out of control. there was also a 2 yr old little girl(riley?) who cussed like a sailor, and had a binky.

Anybody remember that one? The dad was about to be deployed to Iraq.

Something really struck me....when you would go back and watch the episode, the mom seemed to have a lack of care. The house was a wreck, the kids were out of control, the kids screamed at each other, at her, she screamed at the kids...

when Jo went back and played that footage for her, she just sat there. That mom KNEW those cameras were rolling, and she stilll didnt get up off her butt and do much.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

PPD anyone?? I found myself REAlly sad that no one caught the fact that this mom might be suffering from PPD in a bad kind of way...her lethargy, her lack of emotion...its like she didnt even *want* her kids.

I was wishing that Jo would have said " Let;'s find you some counseling".

that poor mom had just given up it seemed.

anybody remember that episode?
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#83 of 86 Old 08-21-2006, 02:10 AM
 
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Did anyone see Nanny 911 tonight (8/20)?

The main "issue" with this family was that the 2 boys (not sure how old, 4-6ish probably) were "far too old to be sleeping in mummy and daddy's bed" and that they'll "never be independent." She even said "how long will they be sleeping with mum and dad, till they're in college?"

Sorry if this episode has been discussed before, but it really jumped out at me as worse than most others I've seen!
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#84 of 86 Old 08-21-2006, 04:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bamamom
there was also a 2 yr old little girl(riley?) who cussed like a sailor, and had a binky.
Hey, my two-year-old cusses like a sailor sometimes, too. I couldn't care less, because I don't think it says anything about her as a child or me as a parent. She's a sweet kid and she's very smart - she knows exactly the right context in which to use the words she's heard Mommy and Daddy say. Words are only words. I'm an intelligent, educated woman, but I cuss sometimes - maybe when I stub my toe or when I drop and break something. DD hears that, and I'm not going to give her some speech about how "Mommy shouldn't have said that word" or something, because I don't believe it's true. IMO, "damn it" and "golly" are equally benign, so in our house, we focus on the way we talk to other people - our tone of voice - not the words we say when we're frustrated. (Well, unless those words are directed at someone, in which case it's just as bad to call someone "stupid" as it is to call them "f'ing stupid" - it's about respect, not words.)
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#85 of 86 Old 08-21-2006, 07:54 AM
 
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We now have a 'Supernanny Magazine' in the UK................shudder......................... .......
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#86 of 86 Old 08-21-2006, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Plummeting
IMO, "damn it" and "golly" are equally benign, so in our house, we focus on the way we talk to other people - our tone of voice - not the words we say when we're frustrated.
I agree.
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