It's OK to spank when.... - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 06:26 AM
 
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Double post

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#92 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 06:26 AM
 
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(It was a typo, sorry, I went back and fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out!)

I feel like you are trying to convince me these words are not controversial, or that if they are, they shouldn't be. I'm not sure what I can say to you. You have a lot of other people to convince.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#93 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 08:46 AM
 
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Please try to keep off-topic posting to a minimum

Thanks

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#94 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 09:08 AM
 
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My in-laws have one of those fake gas "wood stoves" and my ds put his hand on the glass and suddenly started screaming. There were no flames, but it was still hot (I felt so horrible, we were both crying). Anyway, his hand blistered, but it healed quickly and he is really careful around woodstoves now. He gets it. His little sister also understands that the stove is HOT, and she can't touch it, mostly by the panicked look on my face when she toddles toward it.

Kids are not stupid. They don't want to get hurt. They don't need to be hit in order to understand something is dangerous. I will NEVER understand why people think they do.
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#95 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 09:40 AM
 
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As someone else mentioned, if spanking "worked", then it would only need to be done once and the child would have 'learned their lesson'
Not defending spanking, of course, but couldn't the same thing be said for people who use full-on GD? Or any other discipline method?
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#96 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 09:47 AM
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While visiting Japan last year, where my SIL has resided for the past 12 years as a teacher - I was fascinated to learn that the Japanese do not discipline their children till they reach the age when they start schooling. The believe that the children should be allowed to be children. It may sound impossible to never discipline and they suddenly start at age 3 or 4, but there, it works.
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#97 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TinkerBelle
Not defending spanking, of course, but couldn't the same thing be said for people who use full-on GD? Or any other discipline method?
Actually, I think that is the point. If any form of discipline is going to have to be repeated over and over again until the child finally gets it, then why go the route of using violence, when in fact, it could have some very negative long-term effects? Using GD, although it may not be effective in the immediate, will not have a potentially negative outcome.
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#98 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by snugg_bug
Actually, I think that is the point. If any form of discipline is going to have to be repeated over and over again until the child finally gets it, then why go the route of using violence, when in fact, it could have some very negative long-term effects? Using GD, although it may not be effective in the immediate, will not have a potentially negative outcome.
:.

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#99 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
(It was a typo, sorry, I went back and fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out!)

I feel like you are trying to convince me these words are not controversial, or that if they are, they shouldn't be. I'm not sure what I can say to you. You have a lot of other people to convince.
I'm not saying they aren't or shouldn't be controversial. But anything can be controversial to someone. You seem to be acting on the assumption that the established meaning of these terms and concepts is the meaning in the context of the child-torture people; am I right? I do not believe that that is the established meaning based on the fact that I have never met even one person who uses those terms that way. And I am very sensitive to language issues but I wouldn't hold someone else accountable for saying something that could look bad if taken out of context.

I also think it's very unfair to say that gently training children to live harmoniously is incompatible with ap. I think it's part of the foundation of ap.
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#100 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 11:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermonttaylors
My in-laws have one of those fake gas "wood stoves" and my ds put his hand on the glass and suddenly started screaming. There were no flames, but it was still hot (I felt so horrible, we were both crying). Anyway, his hand blistered, but it healed quickly and he is really careful around woodstoves now. He gets it. His little sister also understands that the stove is HOT, and she can't touch it, mostly by the panicked look on my face when she toddles toward it.

Kids are not stupid. They don't want to get hurt. They don't need to be hit in order to understand something is dangerous. I will NEVER understand why people think they do.
I don't think this is universally true. Some kids don't really mind getting hurt--not seriously hurt of course, but moderately. I didn't mind much, and I would do fun stuff even if it meant getting hurt.
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#101 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 12:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by snugg_bug
While visiting Japan last year, where my SIL has resided for the past 12 years as a teacher - I was fascinated to learn that the Japanese do not discipline their children till they reach the age when they start schooling. The believe that the children should be allowed to be children. It may sound impossible to never discipline and they suddenly start at age 3 or 4, but there, it works.
Would you mind elaborating on this a little bit?
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#102 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Brigianna
Would you mind elaborating on this a little bit?
Your question prompted me to research this a little further. Here is one piece of information I found:
Quote:
Japanese child-rearing philosophy has been more permissive since its origin in ancient Japanese folkways. In pre-modern Japanese folklore, children were thought to be close to the gods' world. An ancient Japanese saying, "nanatsu made ha kami no uchi [until seven years old, (children are) in the gods' domain]", reveals that the origin of this belief. Iijima (1991) laid out discussion on this theme in reviewing literature of Japanese folklore. According to Iijima (1991), with support of other pieces of literature in the field, the existence of children before seven (actually, before they turn six years old in the Western age counting system) is not regarded as of this side of the world, where living things reside, nor of the other side of the world; rather, children were thought to belong to subspace, or marginal space between the two worlds. Therefore, children were allowed to be free from any social restrictions. Formal initiations have been imposed after these years in the old Japanese folk society, taking the form of formal visit to local Shinto shrines, or being granted a membership of the children's group in the village.
I don't know if this is specific to what my sister-in-law was speaking of, however I will ask her as it does sound very similar. I observed that the Japanese culture is very ritualistic and that they have their own "coming of age" (similar to Western Catholicism Communion) ceremonies with children.
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#103 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 12:27 PM
 
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That is interesting, especially about the children being of the gods' domain until age 7. In most of the Christian tradition 7 is considered the "age of reason" or when children are no longer completely innocent. I wonder if any other traditions have this significance to age 7... I'll have to look into that.

I'm still not clear on the no discipline/free of social restrictions thing though. I have a hard time imagining that parents would not try to teach their kids anything at all during this time. Or does that just refer to "formal" learning?
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#104 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 12:36 PM
 
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While cultural differences in discipline are very interesting, this thread is not about that. Please feel free to start a new thread.

Sandy, proud mama and henna artist. :
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#105 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
....I'm still not clear on the no discipline/free of social restrictions thing though. I have a hard time imagining that parents would not try to teach their kids anything at all during this time. Or does that just refer to "formal" learning?
I am not sure on the specifics of this. I can only speak on what I personally viewed during my 2 week stay there. I did meet alot of young children, and my SIL even had a party while I was there. I found the children to be very well adjusted, polite, extremely affectionate, mature and very laid back. The kids did not "act up" (not that I witnessed) and we had spent a day with many children at an activities centre as well. Perhaps, in some respects, children are very capable of learning purley based on observation? It is a very interesting subject matter to me. I am going to look into this further, I am curious to know if there have been studies done in this regard.
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#106 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 12:49 PM
 
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I do not believe that that is the established meaning based on the fact that I have never met even one person who uses those terms that way.
Well, many people here have shared otherwise.

The mod has hinted we are going off topic.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#107 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 03:35 PM
 
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Ok, this mod is going to flat out state, not hint, that y'all are off-topic! Please start a new thread to discuss anything other than the original post's topic of (not) spanking in (except for) dangerous situations and the reasoning surrounding this concept.

When threads stay on topic, it makes this forum so much easier to navigate and perform searches Thanks so much for your cooperation.

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
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#108 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 05:24 PM
 
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From growing up in a spanking enviroment and other bad disciplines enviroment and only knowing that and not learning others I believe ppl do this because of a loss of control and do not know any other ways to discipline . I think alot ppl think kids are young adults than just kids trying to learn and reach out.

I know w/ my son I say b don't go pass the red and green pop machines .
he does really good w/ that
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#109 of 109 Old 04-19-2006, 10:16 PM
 
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I used to believe this too to get "immediate" results and due to emergency purposes. Actually I found to avoid this alternative (spanking), I just needed to keep my child out of the position to need this....in other words they do not have the opportunity to run in the street, etc. However, this is easier said than done.


Spankers generally have it as a "last resort", learning tool, or panic attack....either way, I feel prevention is the best cure.
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