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Old 06-04-2006, 11:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
Brigianna, it doesn't sound *to me* like they hit them to blanket-train. I've seen the TV special on the Duggars and honestly they seem like fairly peaceful people and while they are definitely traditionalists (of a sort!) they don't seem like big punishers, either. I think their dc definitely know what is expected of them but it doesn't seem like there are a lot of threats or violence used (if any) to accomplish this. My personal opinion is that they are nuts to have so many kids (and Quiverfull or no Quiverfull, when you have 16 kids THAT IS A CHOICE YOU ARE MAKING), but if anyone could have 16 kids and make it look easy and like a choice that ISN'T nuts, they can!

(how's that for a backhanded compliment, Mrs. Duggar? )
I agree, but I do think (although I'm really really hesitant to bring this up) that a lot of the criticism of them is based on their religious beliefs and certain assumptions about them based on that. I am wondering, if they were of any other religion, would people be more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt regarding their parenting practices? But there is the perception that "everyone knows how *those people* [meaning traditionalist Christians] all beat their kids, have more kids to be having them and not because they love them, etc."
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Old 06-04-2006, 11:52 PM
 
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I would imagine there is a huge difference between a TODDLER wanting to listen to their Mama, but a 8 month old baby? I am having a really hard time believing that they have the capabilities to think that way. At that age, babies are still being driven by instinct, not complex thoughts.

Every kid is different, of course, but in the case of my kids, they were much more compliant as babies and young toddlers than later. I had very naturally compliant babies, and it wasn't until some point after 2 that they seemed to realize "hey, I don't *have* to do what mama wants!" and that was when we got to the point where the response to every request was "no," even when it was something they wanted to do, just for the pleasure of exercising their newfound skill of defiance. And, don't misunderstand me, that is a good thing. Learning that you don't always have to do what someone else wants is an important part of learning identity. But at least for my kids, before they reached that point they were very naturally compliant without being punished or threatened or anything like that.
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Old 06-05-2006, 02:16 AM
 
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Is this something that is done a lot in GA?
We've lived in four different cities in Georgia since having children, and in my volunteer work with hundreds of mothers over the years, I'd never heard of "blanket training" until recently . So, in a nutshell, I wouldn't say blanket training is specific to Georgia

BTW, I was "naturally compliant," and according to my mom, if she told me to sit still in a certain spot until she said it was okay to move, I wouldn't move an inch. She's really sad those days are gone

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Old 06-05-2006, 02:27 AM
 
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Ha ha, 'compliant' is not how I would describe my spunky DD... She knows what she wants even at 1 year old! She often plays happily by herself (when she is inspired to do so) in an area little larger than a blanket, but only when *she* wants to...if I set her down near her favorite toys b/c I need to do something, but she would rather be doing something else, I can't really imagine WHAT I could do to convince her to play where I want her to play!! She also can stiffen her body so that if she decides she doesn't want to get in the car seat, she is NOT getting in. I have to cajole her, distract her, use all manner of tricks to get her in the seat sometimes - just telling her that she has to get in means nothing to her whatsoever! My mom says I was the same as a baby, very strong-willed, and I never really changed as a child/adult. I wonder what a blanket-trainer would do with such a baby - would they try to break the child's will? That just seems unimaginable, and yet I know it must happen.
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Old 06-05-2006, 02:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Brigianna
I agree, but I do think (although I'm really really hesitant to bring this up) that a lot of the criticism of them is based on their religious beliefs and certain assumptions about them based on that. I am wondering, if they were of any other religion, would people be more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt regarding their parenting practices? But there is the perception that "everyone knows how *those people* [meaning traditionalist Christians] all beat their kids, have more kids to be having them and not because they love them, etc."
I hear you on that. But I have a lot of relatives who are fundamentalist Christians and while some of them fit the negative stereotypes to a T, one of my cousins is very AP and an extremely compassionate, gentle mother. She is also VERY religious and VERY "fundamentalist", not a "liberal Christian" at all. So perhaps because of my personal experience with fundamentalist Christians and their varying styles of parenting, I don't assume that a family is parenting a certain way just because they are religious. Honestly, I have found that *most of the time* (not always) if you just watch parents of any creed interacting with their dc, you can get a general sense for whether they are practicing fear-based parenting or not. And although you can't trust TV, and the Duggar special may have been edited to make them look more serene than they really are, I did not get the sense that that household runs on fear. So whereas they may believe in spanking and use the Gothard curriculum, it is just my gut feeling that there are not many spankings (if any) actually handed out.

I could be totally wrong, of course. Just speculation on my part.
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Old 06-05-2006, 03:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
Ha ha, 'compliant' is not how I would describe my spunky DD... She knows what she wants even at 1 year old! She often plays happily by herself (when she is inspired to do so) in an area little larger than a blanket, but only when *she* wants to...if I set her down near her favorite toys b/c I need to do something, but she would rather be doing something else, I can't really imagine WHAT I could do to convince her to play where I want her to play!! She also can stiffen her body so that if she decides she doesn't want to get in the car seat, she is NOT getting in. I have to cajole her, distract her, use all manner of tricks to get her in the seat sometimes - just telling her that she has to get in means nothing to her whatsoever! My mom says I was the same as a baby, very strong-willed, and I never really changed as a child/adult. I wonder what a blanket-trainer would do with such a baby - would they try to break the child's will? That just seems unimaginable, and yet I know it must happen.
That would be disturbing. I would never try to break a child's will, least of all over a silly thing like blanket-training. But of course there are people who would and as I understand it they would be quite good at it...


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I hear you on that. But I have a lot of relatives who are fundamentalist Christians and while some of them fit the negative stereotypes to a T, one of my cousins is very AP and an extremely compassionate, gentle mother. She is also VERY religious and VERY "fundamentalist", not a "liberal Christian" at all. So perhaps because of my personal experience with fundamentalist Christians and their varying styles of parenting, I don't assume that a family is parenting a certain way just because they are religious. Honestly, I have found that *most of the time* (not always) if you just watch parents of any creed interacting with their dc, you can get a general sense for whether they are practicing fear-based parenting or not. And although you can't trust TV, and the Duggar special may have been edited to make them look more serene than they really are, I did not get the sense that that household runs on fear. So whereas they may believe in spanking and use the Gothard curriculum, it is just my gut feeling that there are not many spankings (if any) actually handed out.

I could be totally wrong, of course. Just speculation on my part.
I agree that you can often tell by the interactions. I don't have enough of a sense about these people to tell, but I just thought that a more secular family would have been given more the benefit of the doubt. The corporate media tends to sensationalize anything different or non-mainstream. But I also think that there is this anti-child subculture, and part of what makes them so dangerous is how well they hide it. If you go to the websites of No Greater Joy or Focus on the Family and read what they have to say about children and family interactions, they really don't sound much different from ap sites. You have to seek out the stuff about beating babies into submission and whatnot.

So anyway, I don't think we have enough information about these people to really say what their family is like.

And now I am off to look up Gothard college...
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:01 AM
 
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If you go to the websites of No Greater Joy or Focus on the Family and read what they have to say about children and family interactions, they really don't sound much different from ap sites. You have to seek out the stuff about beating babies into submission and whatnot.
You are so right about this. Your post made me remember a conversation I had with a co-worker when I was pregnant...she was saying how much she loves Focus on the Family. To her, it was gentle and sensible advice from a Christian perspective. She had no idea about what's his name's (the FOTF director, it's eluding me) political activities or any of the more sinister advice that, as you have reminded me, is not the first thing you see when you visit their website, but is rather insidiously snuck in among the more sensible-sounding advice.
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:13 AM
 
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That's the sickest, sickest thing I have ever heard of in my life in terms of childrearing. What on earth is wrong with these people?

I agree about the nice appearance of Focus on the Family. I used to have to drive all over rural Texas for my job, and I listened to lots of Christian talk shows (all I had was broadcast radio and miles and miles of Texas alone in the car -- ) and FOF sounded so nice and normal.
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:17 AM
 
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found it above
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:26 AM
 
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Okay, Gothard's college is called Verity, where you can earn a bachelor's degree in 21 months in a "Christian environment." I don't speak evangelical, so I'm not sure exactly what they teach, but it has to do with "discipleship and ministry." He also operates the Oak Brook College of Law and Government Policy, which is non-accredited and "Christian-based." This is in addition to his homeschool curriculum. He's also affiliated with that paramilitary organization we discussed here recently.

I also learned that the CharacterFirst program which is taught in public schools is Gothard-based, and that apparently some other Christian fundamentalists have a problem with that, because it was endorsed by Planned Parenthood, an unnamed Democratic senator, and the "World Bank people." Apparently he's also controversial for relying on psychology in his programs.




Maybe someone more familiar with evangelical jargon could explain some of this stuff...
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:30 AM
 
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You are so right about this. Your post made me remember a conversation I had with a co-worker when I was pregnant...she was saying how much she loves Focus on the Family. To her, it was gentle and sensible advice from a Christian perspective. She had no idea about what's his name's (the FOTF director, it's eluding me) political activities or any of the more sinister advice that, as you have reminded me, is not the first thing you see when you visit their website, but is rather insidiously snuck in among the more sensible-sounding advice.
That would be James Dobson, who is currently employed as a White House policy advisor (yes, our tax dollars are paying Dobson's salary). He's gotten so much publicity lately that I think maybe more people are familiar with his political ideas then his child-rearing ones (although IMO they're related). And yes, a huge part of his appeal in both areas is how reasonable he sounds.
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:42 AM
 
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That would be James Dobson, who is currently employed as a White House policy advisor (yes, our tax dollars are paying Dobson's salary).


Are you serious?
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Old 06-05-2006, 11:31 PM
 
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i listen to james dobson, but had no idea he is a white house policy advisor......
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:29 AM
 
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Okay, I looked up Dobson's role as policy advisor, and apparently I was wrong about that; he is not currently on the public payroll. He is however brought in as a "consultant." So he isn't receiving tax dollars, but he is still influencing laws and policies...







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