Do you know anyone who spanks? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 154 Old 06-18-2006, 11:41 PM
 
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I live in a very progressive and highly-educated area where hitting kids is frowned upon. So I only know of one family that claims to support it (although they haven't yet hit their child). Even they acknowledge that, if you hit your kids in public around here, you will likely be glared at, if not confronted. This is, after all, the area where Jordan Riak came close to passing a no-spanking ordinance!

I personally tend to associate hitting kids with lower socio-economic groups and less educated people -- and some studies support that (although I realize it is also more prevalent among educated people in certain cultures -- e.g., certain religious followers). I hope this doesn't offend anyone -- this really is the connotation in my community. So IRL, I get the feeling that violent discipline is on the way out. But then I read about its prevalance online and feel so discouraged and sad.
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#62 of 154 Old 06-18-2006, 11:42 PM
 
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Can I ask where the posters who say that they dont know anyone that spanks currently live? Limabean? Catrinel? the_lissa?

I'm floored that you don't know anyone that spanks and even more surprised that you are surprised by these posts. I'm from the South and now live in the Northeast and know plenty of people that spank and believe in spanking. Who either think it is THE way or one possible way or a last resort or something you can't get away from. I hear alot "once you have your kids, you'll change your mind".

So anyway, where do you live? Your location isn't filled in in your member info section.

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#63 of 154 Old 06-18-2006, 11:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kylix
Can I ask where the posters who say that they dont know anyone that spanks currently live? Limabean? Catrinel? the_lissa?

I'm floored that you don't know anyone that spanks and even more surprised that you are surprised by these posts. I'm from the South and now live in the Northeast and know plenty of people that spank and believe in spanking. Who either think it is THE way or one possible way or a last resort or something you can't get away from. I hear alot "once you have your kids, you'll change your mind".

So anyway, where do you live? Your location isn't filled in in your member info section.

Kylix
I am shocked by these posts! I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. My community is very progressive, fairly wealthy and educated. I think spanking rates are lower generally among those groups. Or so some studies say. I hope I am not just negative stereotyping, but those really are the perceptions around here -- that people who hit their kids are somewhat ignorant.

But on the bright side, I think it's fabulous that so many of us are NOT surrounded by hitters!
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#64 of 154 Old 06-18-2006, 11:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by peacelovingmama
I am shocked by these posts! I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. My community is very progressive, fairly wealthy and educated. I think spanking rates are lower generally among those groups. Or so some studies say. I hope I am not just negative stereotyping, but those really are the perceptions around here -- that people who hit their kids are somewhat ignorant.

But on the bright side, I think it's fabulous that so many of us are NOT surrounded by hitters!
I also live in a wealthy educated area of the Midwest (like a college town but not).

People here are not super progressive but they consider spanking to be something that only lower class people do. It's simply "not done" here. People here would consider alot of GD nonsense though!
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#65 of 154 Old 06-18-2006, 11:59 PM
 
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I'm in Southern Ontario, Canada, and some of these posts shock me. Here, you can only "legally" spank a child between the ages of 2 and 12 and only with an open hand on the bum. When those parameters were defined a few years ago by the Supreme Court, mnany people were surprised because it was expected that the Supreme Court would make spanking illegal altogether. I don't know anyone who spanks, and I have certainly never seen anyone spank a child in public or tell someone they need to spank their kids.

Now, there is a religious community a couple hours from here that does spank. It was in the news a while back because a family had their children taken away.

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#66 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 12:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by peacelovingmama

I personally tend to associate hitting kids with lower socio-economic groups and less educated people -- and some studies support that (although I realize it is also more prevalent among educated people in certain cultures -- e.g., certain religious followers). I hope this doesn't offend anyone -- this really is the connotation in my community.
My parents are Ivy League educated adults with a six figure income who beat the hell outta me until I ran away at 17. Don't be too sure about that
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#67 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Joannarachel
My parents are Ivy League educated adults with a six figure income who beat the hell outta me until I ran away at 17. Don't be too sure about that
I'm so sorry to hear that. It is a generalization to be sure, with exceptions on both sides (rich and/or educated people beating kids, poor or uneducated people using GD).
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#68 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:35 AM
 
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I doubt I could go to a grocery store or Target or wherever without hearing someone threaten to hit their child, or see them do it. And I live in one of the wealthiest, most highly-educated counties in the country.
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#69 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:46 AM
 
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I have not seen anyone spank in public around hee, although I do know some parents who do it behind closed doors (not friends of mine, just people I know). I think it's just as bad to hear the verbal abuse that goes on. For example, I took my dd to the Wild Animal Park recently and heard a mom scream at her ds (who looked about 5-6 and was running because he was excited) "Get the F!#@ back here you little sh*&!" I'm so glad my dd didn't see that. I felt so sorry for that dear litle boy.

It always floors me that the same parents that hit/yell because their toddler can't "control" their behavior are the ones who lose it in stressful situations with their kids. Pot? Kettle? Black?

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#70 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:47 AM
 
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Every parent I know IRL does spank.

 
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#71 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:55 AM
 
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I won't say EVERY parent but I know quite a few that use physical discipline (popping their mouth, smacking their hands, spanking their bottom) but I know just as many that thinks spanking is child abuse...although I will say that every parent I know IRL thinks smacking their hand or popping them on the butt for doing something dangerous is okay the whole "They have to associate the street with PAIN" thing...kwim?

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#72 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 02:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by maya44
I also live in a wealthy educated area of the Midwest (like a college town but not).

People here are not super progressive but they consider spanking to be something that only lower class people do. It's simply "not done" here. People here would consider alot of GD nonsense though!
Yes, I think it's a little bit of a class difference here, too, and mostly confined to poor white parents. A large percentage of the lower income bracket here are Hispanic, and I've often noticed Hispanic parents looking askance at parents who are yelling at their kids or spanking them. And I cannot think of one time when I've seen a Hispanic parent spank their child, or yell at them. I have seen statistics that say Hispanic parents are more likely to spank, so I don't know if it's because of most of the population here is from Northwestern Mexico, and they're just less likely to, or because they sense that people might be more critical of them, so they do it very privately, or they just value gentle parenting.

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#73 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 02:03 AM
 
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I wrote that the only people I know IRL who spank are my relos in the South, but I totally forgot about my next-door neighbor. (I'm in San Diego, by the way, and I'm sure there are plenty of spanking parents here, but I don't hang out w/ 'em.)

Ugh. We live in a condo, and our bedroom shares a wall with this woman's bedroom...she is young, lives w/ her dad and younger sister, has an almost-3-year-old dd and is pg again (I see her boyfriend over there occasionally but I don't think he is her dd's dad). I can't swear that she spanks, but she threatens it in the most savage terms - I have heard her say on more than one occasion, "DD, get your ass back in bed or I will beat it black and blue!" - she also occasionally calls her dd a "motherf@$#er" and threatens her with the "Scream Guy", which I think is her getting in her dd's face and SCREAMING a piercing scream - heard this happen the other night .

I actually called CPS about her and they told me that they can do nothing unless I have evidence of physical abuse. I guess I always forget about her when I think of spankers (and I am 99% sure she *does* spank, besides threatening...her tone is just too vicious when she lays into her dd for not sleeping, etc...if she can't restrain herself from calling her toddler obscenities, I'm sure she can't restrain herself from hitting her) - because in order to live next door to her I kind of have to block it out. She is so nice and friendly when we see her outside - she has no idea we can hear her at night, of course - and no one would guess what she is capable of screaming at her poor dd.

I doubt that there is anywhere where spanking is really rare...it may seem like it in places like San Francisco, but that's because it has become a bit more socially unacceptable (and totally unacceptable in progressive circles) so those that do it are less likely to talk about it or do it in public. It's a step. But I don't think we will see an end to spanking on a large scale until we renounce our culture of violence. Not likely to be soon.

I can't wait to move out of this condo.
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#74 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 02:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by peacelovingmama
I am shocked by these posts! I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. My community is very progressive, fairly wealthy and educated. I think spanking rates are lower generally among those groups. Or so some studies say. I hope I am not just negative stereotyping, but those really are the perceptions around here -- that people who hit their kids are somewhat ignorant.

But on the bright side, I think it's fabulous that so many of us are NOT surrounded by hitters!
I am not ignorant, but I am most certainly pretty darn poor! And I try my best to GD. My poverty status has nothing to do with how *I* parent personally, and I've known many "rich" people that hit their children.

I honestly don't see the poor/ignorant=spanking mamas connection where I am. Yes, sometimes the lower income classes seem to be more verbal about how they treat their children. (an example being all the people in my building that scream at their children 24/7 with no regard to who is there listening or watching. I watched a social worker just stand there while she hit her son, and she didn't bat an eye. Now, it might be her "right" to disciple her child, but to do so like that in FRONT of a child protective worker??? That to me is pure stupidity IMO. And thats the kind of parenting I see all around me.... )

(venting!)

People are contantly telling me my child "needs a good spanking", "beat 'em! that'll teach em!" "Uh oh! Looks like someones gonna get their butt beat!" etc... And what saddens me the most, is our neighbor has 2 boys and one on the way. My dd likes to play with her kids, but when she starts screaming at her son for something.. my dd just freezes. She is scared and unsure of the situation, and I end up taking her back upstairs. She isn't exposed to that level of violence in my home. (thank the goddess) (I NEVER let her play down there without me. EVER.)

I just wish this mama would realize how mean she is being. How totally cruel she looks to others. She is SCREAMING and swearing at a 3 and 1 year old... *sigh*

Okay vent over..

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#75 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 02:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
I wrote that the only people I know IRL who spank are my relos in the South, but I totally forgot about my next-door neighbor. (I'm in San Diego, by the way, and I'm sure there are plenty of spanking parents here, but I don't hang out w/ 'em.)

Ugh. We live in a condo, and our bedroom shares a wall with this woman's bedroom...she is young, lives w/ her dad and younger sister, has an almost-3-year-old dd and is pg again (I see her boyfriend over there occasionally but I don't think he is her dd's dad). I can't swear that she spanks, but she threatens it in the most savage terms - I have heard her say on more than one occasion, "DD, get your ass back in bed or I will beat it black and blue!" - she also occasionally calls her dd a "motherf@$#er" and threatens her with the "Scream Guy", which I think is her getting in her dd's face and SCREAMING a piercing scream - heard this happen the other night .

I actually called CPS about her and they told me that they can do nothing unless I have evidence of physical abuse. I guess I always forget about her when I think of spankers (and I am 99% sure she *does* spank, besides threatening...her tone is just too vicious when she lays into her dd for not sleeping, etc...if she can't restrain herself from calling her toddler obscenities, I'm sure she can't restrain herself from hitting her) - because in order to live next door to her I kind of have to block it out. She is so nice and friendly when we see her outside - she has no idea we can hear her at night, of course - and no one would guess what she is capable of screaming at her poor dd.

I doubt that there is anywhere where spanking is really rare...it may seem like it in places like San Francisco, but that's because it has become a bit more socially unacceptable (and totally unacceptable in progressive circles) so those that do it are less likely to talk about it or do it in public. It's a step. But I don't think we will see an end to spanking on a large scale until we renounce our culture of violence. Not likely to be soon.

I can't wait to move out of this condo.
Hmmm... are you sure you aren't in my building? This woman you describe sounds exactly like my neighbor.. :

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#76 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 02:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
She is so nice and friendly when we see her outside - she has no idea we can hear her at night, of course - and no one would guess what she is capable of screaming at her poor dd.
Wow! Do you think you could talk to her? Maybe tell her you heard her and you were worried, and you'd watch her dd or something for her? Maybe if she knew you were listening, it would encourage her to think of other ways to parent.

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#77 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 02:20 AM
 
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I don't know anyone who spanks, I don't think, and I've only seen it in public once. I was deeply shocked. It could be that there are spankers around me who do it privately, I guess. I am told that they still use physical punishment in schools here.

I live in Singapore. The area I'm in is a diverse mix of many nationalities.
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#78 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 12:21 PM
 
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About half of the people I know do spank, even the AP moms. However, it is rarly done in public.
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#79 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 12:24 PM
 
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I have a friend who is ok with spanking (and was/is a spanker), but she told me one day (after a conversation on spanking) that her dd was so well behaved she didn't "need" spanked anymore, and that spanking didn't work on her ds. So she said she was going to STOP spanking her then 21 mo ds.

I have to imagine that some of my cousins on my dad's side spank occasionally. I'd be willing to bet money they don't see it as awful, and the probably see it as ok in certain situations. Hmmm...now I'll have to ask. I don't care if I cause a feud or not (I'm so bad lol)

I was on a mainstream board once talking about spanking, and was totally amazed at how many people defended it! Only ONE other than myself (out of 20-30 maybe?) said spanking was NOT OK! Everyone else, even if the didn't personally do it, said that it was a parent's choice. And of course, I got the "its necessary in some situations" crap.

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#80 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 12:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by peacelovingmama
I am shocked by these posts! I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. My community is very progressive, fairly wealthy and educated. I think spanking rates are lower generally among those groups. Or so some studies say. I hope I am not just negative stereotyping, but those really are the perceptions around here -- that people who hit their kids are somewhat ignorant.
I'm a little offended by this to be honest. I think this perception (that only progressive, wealthy people don't spank) perpetuates physical punishment. Whereas some people may not have the same resources or support systems to find others way other than to spank, I think it is a large sweeping generalization to say "progressive" people don't spank and "ignorant" people do. I am very against spanking but I think that people support it for a variety of reasons. And people that are very "progressive" in other ways wholeheartedly agree with spanking. And those that are "ignorant" may understand the inherent flaws in it.

I hear all the time that not spanking is "white people's discipline" or "rich people's discipline". If we keep saying those things, it creates a false cultural divide, IMO.

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#81 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by _betsy_
I doubt I could go to a grocery store or Target or wherever without hearing someone threaten to hit their child, or see them do it. And I live in one of the wealthiest, most highly-educated counties in the country.
Well, things like "poor people are more likely to spank" are generalizations. It just means that on average, poorer and less educated people are more likely to use harsh discipline techniques. It doesn't mean every poor person hits their kids, and it doesn't mean college educated people never hit their kids. Everyone uses generalizations, it's a way to catergorize the world and makes explaining things, expecting things, and discussing things easier.

My dad has a college degree, owns a business, and we were well-off growing up, but we still got the occaisonal spanking from our parents. And so did our poorer neighbors (except they got spanked quite a bit more often for almost everything).

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#82 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:03 PM
 
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Yes, but not everyone agrees with those generalizations.

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#83 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by natensarah
Wow! Do you think you could talk to her? Maybe tell her you heard her and you were worried, and you'd watch her dd or something for her? Maybe if she knew you were listening, it would encourage her to think of other ways to parent.
I have planned to do this but I just can't, I have no idea what I would say or how to say it. None of the things I have thought about saying are possible for me to say to her. The words dry up on my tongue. I am spineless. I guess since her outbursts seem to happen so infrequently these days it has really flown off my radar. I don't know what is the right thing to do anymore.

WitchyMama, are you in SD? Maybe you do live in my neighborhood! Or, sadly, this kind of thing is common.
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#84 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 03:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
I have planned to do this but I just can't, I have no idea what I would say or how to say it. None of the things I have thought about saying are possible for me to say to her. The words dry up on my tongue. I am spineless. I guess since her outbursts seem to happen so infrequently these days it has really flown off my radar. I don't know what is the right thing to do anymore.
You're not spineless! It's really hard to do something like that.

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#85 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 03:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kylix
I'm a little offended by this to be honest. I think this perception (that only progressive, wealthy people don't spank) perpetuates physical punishment. Whereas some people may not have the same resources or support systems to find others way other than to spank, I think it is a large sweeping generalization to say "progressive" people don't spank and "ignorant" people do. I am very against spanking but I think that people support it for a variety of reasons. And people that are very "progressive" in other ways wholeheartedly agree with spanking. And those that are "ignorant" may understand the inherent flaws in it.

I hear all the time that not spanking is "white people's discipline" or "rich people's discipline". If we keep saying those things, it creates a false cultural divide, IMO.

Kylix
Like I said, it is a generalization and seems to be the predominant perception where I live. I have also seen studies that reflect this divide (and other, cultural tendenies). It just means that, on AVERAGE, some groups tend to hit children more than others. Not that all poor people hit or no wealthy people do. Or that all members of any one cultural group do or don't.

There are, of course, many exceptions. And I do realize that people have differential access to education and resources (may be a cause of some of these differences?). I don't mean to categorize anyone here and I certainly am not trying to offend. I just wanted to share the overwhelming perception (or MY perception of the perception) in my community.
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#86 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 04:11 PM
 
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Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.

Hitting is never the best way to teach a child. Even in the case of real danger - as when a child runs out into the road - you can grab him, sit him down, look him in the eyes, and tell him why he must never do that again. The panic in your voice will communicate your message much more effectively than any spanking. You can be dramatic without being abusive.

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I have a daycare, and I deal with about 20 families per year. I only have one family that I know spanks. They also yell, and belittle their kids.

Guess who are my most challenging kids????????

Edited for miswording.
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#88 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 08:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanley
But Gentle Discipline is a deal breaker with AP in my opinion. You simply cannot AP if you can defend spanking as a choice in your parenting tool box. There is NOTHING attachment forming in hitting another person.

To me AP is recognizing that breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing and gentle discipline are the way it should be.
In my opinion, seeing AP or other helpful parenting movements as having elements that are "deal breakers" is potentially dogmatic (and here, I think actually dogmatic) and not helpful. I think if someone seeking to learn from the AP movement is exposed to this type of thinking, she may very well decide not to read things labeled "AP" any more or associate with people who call themselves AP. In fact I would hazard to guess that this would be a majority reaction.

There are many things that are not attachment forming and many things that are. We bring gifts and weaknesses, resources and strengths, to our parent/child relationships. What is the good of dogma?

I certainly think AP is not a religion, and until I guess some hours after ruminating on this post, I would have used the phrase as a useful phrase to describe my own parenting style. Now, I don't want to be associated with the label AP. Maybe I will change my mind later, but actually as I age, I become more confident living without labels at all, so probably not.

It is certainly wonderful when we can guide our children with words and affection and upright example.
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#89 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 08:48 PM
 
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Noras mom....we dealt with a similar situation with a horribly abusive man and his pitiful girlfriend. we were living side by side in townhouses, and omg...i did call 911 one night bc he was trying to kill her. throwing her down the stairs...etc

here is what i said...in a normal way, (and they were NOT sociable!) i said " Hi! I was wondering if we've been keeping you up lately? My dc has had -----whatever, teething, nightmares, make something up!--------and i hope we havent disturbed you! you know, we share that bedroom wall, and you can hear EVERYthing through those walls! Just wanted to make sure we werent bothering you??"

This would be done in a totally nonchalant way, and let her know that you CAN hear, without putting her on the spot.
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#90 of 154 Old 06-19-2006, 09:24 PM
 
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Peacelovingmama,

I'm well aware of those studies. The masters thesis I'm currently working on actually sites them as references.

To me, it's one thing to look at the data and site statistics about prevalence. It's another thing to say "progressive" people do this and "ignorant" people do that. I know what you meant and I don't mean to nitpick or pick on you but I think these statements and the false use of those very prevalence studies perpetuate the use of physical punishment. People begin to think "hey, maybe it's true that only wealthy, progressive people don't spank. I am not wealthy and that's not the way I parent and that's okay because I belong to a different group." Sounds goofy but I have run into people (in my own circle of friends and family) who take on such a notion--that not spanking is a luxury for only rich, progressive white people.

Prevalence studies or not, I think it's time to put the generalizations away so that everyone knows that they can parent differently and it's okay.

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