I bought Dobson's Dare to Discipline - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-27-2006, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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at a garage sale for $.50 for the express purpose of putting it in the garbage so it would not fall into the hands of someone seeking parenting advice.

What a crappy book.

~Tracy

Rockin' mama to Allison (9), Asher (5) and Alethea (3), head over heels in love with my sexy husband, Tony.

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Old 06-27-2006, 06:10 PM
 
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Good for you.

Dobson scares me. When people tell me that they respect him, I often bring up his anecdote about beating his tiny dog with a belt (because the dog was sleeping in the wrong spot). Sadly, it takes this tale of animal abuse to get some people to consider that his treatment of children is also abusive.
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh my gosh. :Puke

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Old 06-27-2006, 06:45 PM
 
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Good thinking mama!
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Old 06-27-2006, 07:04 PM
 
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one less book to get into the wrong hands....good doing mama!

 
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Old 06-27-2006, 10:34 PM
 
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I own a copy, it's my mom's parenting Bible and I wanted to read it so that I could speak intelligently about it to her. Couldn't make it through, it was even more awful than I had expected. His attitude toward children SUCKS. Explains a lot about my mom...

may my heart always be open to little birds who are the secrets of living whatever they sing is better than to know  - e.e. cummings
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:01 PM
 
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The title of this post scared me :
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joannarachel
The title of this post scared me :
:

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Old 06-27-2006, 11:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by peacelovingmama
Good for you.

Dobson scares me. When people tell me that they respect him, I often bring up his anecdote about beating his tiny dog with a belt (because the dog was sleeping in the wrong spot). Sadly, it takes this tale of animal abuse to get some people to consider that his treatment of children is also abusive.
On another site I frequent (non-parenting-related) there is much criticism of Dobson, mostly for his political views, and he is referred to as "the dog-beater." I suggested that he be called "the child-beater" instead, because while dog-beating is certainly disturbing, it's what he advocates doing to children that's really reprehensible. And I used that to talk about how children are the only members of society whose rights you're not "supposed" to advocate for, and how treatment of children is very much a public issue that people should not be afraid to take a stand on. I'm not sure I changed anybody's mind, but at least I brought it up.

Animals really do have more social rights than children--you can say openly, in mixed company, "I think beating a dog is cruel," and it won't be controversial. But if you criticize beating a child, you're being "judgemental" because child-beating is a "personal choice."

Sad, really...
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Brigianna
Animals really do have more social rights than children--you can say openly, in mixed company, "I think beating a dog is cruel," and it won't be controversial. But if you criticize beating a child, you're being "judgemental" because child-beating is a "personal choice."

Sad, really...
Very Sad...

I still can't wrap my mind around that line of thought....

 
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:47 PM
 
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Hey! I was raised according to Dobson's beliefs and, well, I didn't die.

That's more than I could say if I was Ezzo-ized



(I will be in therapy until my 102nd birthday, but it's good for the economy, right?)
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:55 PM
 
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: another recovering "raised on Dobson" here.... "Focus on the Family"... yeah right : I bought that book and Ezzo's book at our local Goodwill... then promptly threw them out. Best $1.60 I ever spent

Maaaammaa!! to A 2/99 M 7/00 J 10/04 B 4/07 S 3/09
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
On another site I frequent (non-parenting-related) there is much criticism of Dobson, mostly for his political views, and he is referred to as "the dog-beater." I suggested that he be called "the child-beater" instead, because while dog-beating is certainly disturbing, it's what he advocates doing to children that's really reprehensible. And I used that to talk about how children are the only members of society whose rights you're not "supposed" to advocate for, and how treatment of children is very much a public issue that people should not be afraid to take a stand on. I'm not sure I changed anybody's mind, but at least I brought it up.

Animals really do have more social rights than children--you can say openly, in mixed company, "I think beating a dog is cruel," and it won't be controversial. But if you criticize beating a child, you're being "judgemental" because child-beating is a "personal choice."

Sad, really...
I'm glad you are helping people make this connection. I too am baffled by why beating small dogs disturbs many people more than beating babies. : I am a huge animal-lover (with 3 dogs and we would never hit them) but I do think that his advocacy of child-beating is more disturbing than his description of his own animal abuse.
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Old 06-28-2006, 03:36 AM
 
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With DH selling on eBay and Amazon, I have frequent opportunities to attend garage and library sales and go to used bookshops.

I take advantage of all of them for this very purpose. It helps me when there isn't an interesting section for me to look in or a type of book he wants me to find. I hunt through the parenting sections to look for these types of books.

Early intervention specialist and parent consultant since 2002.
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Old 06-28-2006, 04:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by peacelovingmama
I'm glad you are helping people make this connection. I too am baffled by why beating small dogs disturbs many people more than beating babies. .
They both disturb me equally. Where I worked, in a mental health clinic for kids, these two things often fed into a viscious circle---beating animals often led to beating spouses/partners and/or children. Beaten children often led to beating animals because of mimicking what had been done to them or for other reasons. If you have no problems being cruel to an animal (a "lesser" living soul), then you will have no problems being cruel to your spouse/partner and/or children (I experienced this firsthand with first husband). If you have no problems being cruel to a child, then you will have no problems being cruel to an animal, a "lesser" living soul.

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Old 06-28-2006, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Coincidentally, there is a Dobson commentary on CNN today. I emailed CNN and asked them not to feature him and/or mention his books (as they did at the introduction to his commentary - which I didn't read). I told them he advocates child and animal abuse and if they give his books national attention by mentioning them on their site they could inadvertently harm a child whose parents are prompted to buy his book(s). They probably won't listen to me though, but I tried.

Very sad to see his books mentioned there.

Sorry for the scary title to the thread. Cheap trick to get people to read my thread.

~Tracy

Rockin' mama to Allison (9), Asher (5) and Alethea (3), head over heels in love with my sexy husband, Tony.

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Old 06-29-2006, 02:50 PM
 
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i briefly had the missfotune to glace at one of his parenting books, i think it was this one and he was discussion what you could hit kids with! As if hitting them was not bad enough he spend times discussing the various things you can use
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Old 06-29-2006, 05:12 PM
 
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I'm very curious. What exactly and specifically does the book advocate (apart from the generalities like "child abuse")? Just spanking (no, I am not advocating spanking at all but there are a lot of parents who spank and they are not classified as child abusers). Is there something more to it? I have not read the book and I am curious to know what all the fuss is about.

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Old 06-30-2006, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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WARNING - don't read following if you don't like child abuse stories!!!






Not this particular book of his but a different one I thumbed through at the bookstore had a "success" story in it from a Dobson fan. It went something like this:

"My 3 yr old dropped his orange peeling on the floor - something he is not allowed to do. I said in a firm voice, 'pick that up'. He said, 'no'. So I calmly got the paddle..."

At that point I was feeling faint and couldn't read anymore.

I had gone to his website before too after some "nice" lady in church mentioned it and I saw something about what to use to beat your kids with so they won't associate your "loving" hands with inflicting pain on them. Yeah, its the paddle's fault.

What a sick you know what.

Rockin' mama to Allison (9), Asher (5) and Alethea (3), head over heels in love with my sexy husband, Tony.

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Old 06-30-2006, 02:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Wugmama
WARNING - don't read following if you don't like child abuse stories!!!






Not this particular book of his but a different one I thumbed through at the bookstore had a "success" story in it from a Dobson fan. It went something like this:

"My 3 yr old dropped his orange peeling on the floor - something he is not allowed to do. I said in a firm voice, 'pick that up'. He said, 'no'. So I calmly got the paddle..."

At that point I was feeling faint and couldn't read anymore.

I had gone to his website before too after some "nice" lady in church mentioned it and I saw something about what to use to beat your kids with so they won't associate your "loving" hands with inflicting pain on them. Yeah, its the paddle's fault.

What a sick you know what.
People don't beat people, paddles beat people. Yeah, right. Do they think the kids are stupid? They know who's holding the paddle!
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cmlp
I'm very curious. What exactly and specifically does the book advocate (apart from the generalities like "child abuse")? Just spanking (no, I am not advocating spanking at all but there are a lot of parents who spank and they are not classified as child abusers). Is there something more to it? I have not read the book and I am curious to know what all the fuss is about.
This is just from memory (I don't own his books) but there was an anecdote about one of his babies (maybe a year old or so?) who had learned to crawl and wanted to go up stairs. He "switched" the baby every time she did and then left the switch at the bottom of the stairs to "remind" her of the pain she would encounter if she crawled up the stairs (has he never heard of baby gates??? impulse control??? for a PhD, he sure seems dumb). ETA: Hitting children may not legally constitute child abuse but hitting a baby gets much closer. And morally, it is just repugnant. Utterly disgusting.

Here's a link to his dog-beating: http://www.nospank.net/dugan.htm
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:51 AM
 
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AHHHHH the title of this one really scared me.

Good thinking on that one, though.

I first was intro'd to Dobson's delusions when I was 16, before I was even thinking about how I wanted to raise my future child(ren). I was working in a bookstore, and curious as to what was so great about "Bringing Up Boys" that we had to always have so many copies of it in hardcover. I thumbed through it until I found his chapter on homosexuality and that was enough for me. It starts out with "a letter from a 13-year-old boy who was scared he might be gay" (or thereabouts, in quotes because the letter sounded SO FAKE) and thus began my disgust of Dobson. As you can imagine, it was very derogatory. Euuugh.

Anyway, little side-story there.

It was always SO HARD to hold my tongue after that when people would come up to purchase one of his books. Now that I know even more... I should be able to pull some kind of "it's against my morals to sell you that", right?

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Old 06-30-2006, 09:41 AM
 
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gosh that dog beating link is really terrible. What kind of a sick person is he? I know so many people who love his books.
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Old 06-30-2006, 12:39 PM
 
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*

may my heart always be open to little birds who are the secrets of living whatever they sing is better than to know  - e.e. cummings
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:10 PM
 
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Ok, here's a situation and quote from the book.

Background: Dobson describes a scene between an 8 y/o boy, Henry, and his mother. The mother starts nagging Henry at 8:30 that he must pick up his toys and go take his bath. He knows from experience that she doesn't actually mean *right now* so he continues playing. She gets more and more aggravated with him, and it's clear from their interaction (Dobson even says this) that she has not been consistent in the past, so he doesn't stop playing until she gets red in the face and yells. Then he slowly picks up and goes to the bathroom. Dobson comments that the mother and son both know the script - she nags, he ignores, she gets mad, he finally complies. The son knows he doesn't have to do anything until mom gets really pissed.

Then Dobson says...
Quote:
She can never count on instant obedience, because it takes her at least five minutes to work up a believable degree of anger.
Note: instant obedience. Dobson believes that parents should expect this from their children. When I say jump, you ask how high. This isn't limited to certain urgent/emergency/safety situations, this is always about the parent being in charge and making the plan, and the child going along with the plan.
Quote:
The use of rewards or "positive reinforcement" is discussed in the next chapter...but minor pain or "negative reinforcement" can also provide excellent motivation for the child.
Snarky comment: this is not actually what psychologists mean when they use the term "negative reinforcement". But we'll leave Dobson's misunderstanding of psychology alone for the moment. For now, he wants to teach parents how to inflict "minor pain" on their beloved children for the sake of getting them to do what they want, when they want it:
Quote:
...Mom or Dad should have some means of making their youngster want to cooperate...I will suggest one: it is a muscle lying snugly against the base of the neck...when firmly squeezed, it sends little messengers to the brain saying "This hurts: avoid recurrence at all costs." The pain is only temporary; it can cause no damage. But it is an amazingly effective and practical recourse for parents when their youngster ignores a direct command to move.
Niiiiice.

He then goes on to describe how the mother in the first scenario should give Henry a 15 minute warning, then set the timer, then tell him to clean up and go take a bath. If he doesn't do it immediately, she should put the Vulcan neck pinch on him.

I've had this done to me. It is indeed a strong motivator to figure out FAST what you did to result in your parent doing this to you, and you do indeed refrain from doing it again. But not because you've suddenly become a better, more responsible person - no, you avoid doing it again because you FEAR your parent. Nice. That kind of fear becomes pervasive.

He never once suggested that the mother get down and play with Henry, or help him to pick up his toys, or otherwise find a way to understand him and motivate him to take a bath. There is no proactive parenting in Dobson's book that I can see, only reactive parenting. Praise/reward "good" (obedient) behavior, punish "bad" behavior.

There's more, but it's pretty much the whole book and it would go against the UA to reproduce the entire book here. It's pretty poisonous, plays into parents' frustrated desire for control of their kids and "good", compliant children. Dobson makes snide comments about more gentle methods and his comments indicate, to me at least, that he doesn't actually understand the philosophy behind them. He regards GD to be lazy, permissive parenting. My mom did, too. Still does. Strictness is good, being flexible with your kids is letting the enemy win. Maybe that's the saddest thing of all, this philosophy relies on seeing your child as the enemy to start with.

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Old 06-30-2006, 02:57 PM
 
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I'd completely forgotten about the neck pinch. That just brought back some crappy memories
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:02 PM
 
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I think someone else already mentioned this, but he's homophobic too. That alone is reason not to respect his views, IMO.

I just can't believe people, after knowing that he beat a small dog with a belt (and boasts about it) would turn to him for advice on how to treat children.: :
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:21 PM
 
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Here's a question...

Is there any type of "The Truth About Dobson" site the way there is www.ezzo.info for Gary Ezzo?

It would be nice to have a source to point more mainstream or religious parents to.

I hate Dobson. Hate him, hate him, hate him
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacelovingmama
This is just from memory (I don't own his books) but there was an anecdote about one of his babies (maybe a year old or so?) who had learned to crawl and wanted to go up stairs. He "switched" the baby every time she did and then left the switch at the bottom of the stairs to "remind" her of the pain she would encounter if she crawled up the stairs (has he never heard of baby gates??? impulse control??? for a PhD, he sure seems dumb). ETA: Hitting children may not legally constitute child abuse but hitting a baby gets much closer. And morally, it is just repugnant. Utterly disgusting.
I think that is the Pearls. Maybe Dobson says it, too, but I'm pretty sure that particular example was from the Pearls.
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by evelyns_mom
I think that is the Pearls. Maybe Dobson says it, too, but I'm pretty sure that particular example was from the Pearls.
I could have gotten them confused -- sorry! I kind of lump them together as child-beaters. I know Dobson does talk about switching his baby daughter Danae, though. It might have been when she started to toddle/crawl into a forbidden room.

Sorry about any confusion. Either way, he is a baby-beater. Maybe not as egregious as the Pearls but definitely on that same ugly spectrum.:
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