Disciplining someone else's kid in church nursery - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
bass chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rolling foothills
Posts: 547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Today in the church nursery, a 3 year old boy kicked a 4 year old boy, threw a book at my son (2 years) and his mouth was bleeding from it, and punched a 4 year old boy in the eye all within a 1 hour period. I was livid. We made him sit in a chair for the duration of the nursery because he was hurting others, which was only about 5 minutes. We told his dad and he just said, "Oh S, you know you're not supposed to do that. I hope you don't that next week." and la-dee-da they were on their way. This boy has a history of throwing things and grabbing things and isn't well disciplined at all.
I am formulating a plan of action so that next time I'm in the nursery (which is basically every week) and he is there I will lay it out on the line to him. "If you kick, hit, or throw anything, this will happen....." I don't know if I should make him sit on a chair for a predetermined amount of time (I guess that's a time-out, and his dad said it was fine if we did that.) or just take him to his parents. I don't want to try to discipline this child. It would be easier for me to just kick him out of the nursery if he is going to hurt others. But I'm not sure which one I should do. What would you do?
bass chick is offline  
#2 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 07:13 PM
 
mommy2abigail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would tell mom or dad that until thier child's hitting/biting/aggression is under control, one of them needs to stay in the room with him and monitor him at all times. There are too many kids in nursery for the teacher to have to redirect one child constantly, and that is what he needs right now. I would not do time out or sit in the chair if you hit. The parents obviously know it is a problem, and are not dealing with it effectively, if at all. It's not fair for them to put that resposibility on you. They need to deal with the behavior. Of course, I would also print out some GD techniques on how to deal with hitting/aggression non-punatively... HTH
mommy2abigail is offline  
#3 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 07:18 PM
 
KoalaMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: with a joey in the pouch
Posts: 4,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
honestly, if violence like that happened again (I mean 1 more time), I would tell the parents he can't come back. why should all the other kids suffer because one kid wants to beat them all up?

I've worked in church nurseries and if a child is hurting another, they are always asked to go sit alone until they can appologize.

slingboy.gifTaking care of 2 girls:energy.gifblahblah.gifb& a babyboy.gif born on his mama's birthday and a few chicken3.gif
KoalaMommy is offline  
#4 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 07:34 PM
 
hjohnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Twelve miles East of Cheyenne
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If I was in the same position, I would retrieve the parents and tell them that he must be taken out of the nursery until he can behave. We had that policy at our church. You shouldn't have to deal with those kinds of behaviours. Might be a wake up call for the parents too if you refuse to take him until he can behave.

Loving Mom to DS (7) and DS (5).
hjohnson is offline  
#5 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 07:40 PM
 
warriorprincess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Peoples Repub. of Treacle Mine Rd
Posts: 1,638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's my policy to have the parents remove the child. Before permanently removing a child I always talk to the pastor first.
warriorprincess is offline  
#6 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 07:44 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
We have a walkie talkie system for paging parents. I would have paged the parents to get the kid and then dumped it on the pastor and made him deal with it.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#7 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 07:45 PM
 
meganeilis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Don't wait until next time. Talk to the pastor (or whoever necessary) now. This child was involved in 3 seperate incidents during the course of one church service. He should not be allowed to return to the nursery until his parents establish stricter standards of behavior for him.
meganeilis is offline  
#8 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 08:09 PM
 
Rivka5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree that one parent should be asked to stay in the nursery with him and keep him under constant supervision.

Realistically speaking, just kicking him out of the nursery probably means that his parents will stop coming to church. (I can't imagine that they'd find it viable for him to be in the regular service with them, if this is his behavior.) That may still be necessary as a last resort, but in the meantime, having a parent stay in the nursery seems like a good compromise - you can make it clear that the parent needs to stay right with him and make sure other kids are safe, and yet the family won't lose their connection to church at a time when they may really be struggling.

Alexandra 4.11.05 and Colin 2.9.09. Click on my name to visit my homeschooling blog.
Rivka5 is offline  
#9 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 09:55 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If the child is going to stay in the nursery, he needs a shadow.

My concern with asking the parents to stay with him is that they may not be proactive enough.

So, I would talk to the pastor/church council or whoever else has 'authority' and explain the situation and propose your solution -- which is that his parents need to come with him to the nursery AND shadow him while he's there in order to prevent infractions. If they see his hand raised, they need to gently take it and redirect him. If he hits/bites/throws once, they all get a warning, if it happens again, they're asked to take him into the sanctuary/somewhere else for the rest of the morning. But, they are free to come back every week while he learns. I agree that kicking him out means the family will stop coming to church.

At this age PREVENTION is much more effective than time-outs or anything like that. This child needs to get the message that hitting/throwing is not allowed. That's a much easier than understanding the 'time out' because he hit. Technically, 3 year olds are able to understand time outs, but they often don't work with highly impulsive kids.

I would also encourage the parents to make sure that he gets a good dose of outdoor running/large motor time before he comes to the nursery. If the nursery is a small space and he's an active kid, he may get upset when others get in his space.

So, I would encourage you to look at your space and your activities -- what can you do to facilitate this child's participation? How can you make the environment safe for him and the other kids? How can you work WITH the parents to make sure they are still welcome in your community? Is there a parenting group they can belong to? Is there a group of parents who meet regularly? Can you give them helpful reading material?

Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
#10 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 10:11 PM
 
chfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: in a red state
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is there a teen in the church who might feeled called to come play with this child in the nursery during the service? The pastor or someone in the church office might have an idea who might want to serve in this way.

I can imagine anything except one-to-one working with this child. Are they new to the community? Do you know the family well? I wonder if the little one is still adjusting...
chfriend is offline  
#11 of 20 Old 10-01-2006, 10:19 PM
Banned
 
secondseconds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would tell Dad that next week he will be called out of service to take care of his child if it gets out of control again.
secondseconds is offline  
#12 of 20 Old 10-02-2006, 06:49 AM
 
The4OfUs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
Is there a teen in the church who might feeled called to come play with this child in the nursery during the service? The pastor or someone in the church office might have an idea who might want to serve in this way.

I can imagine anything except one-to-one working with this child. Are they new to the community? Do you know the family well? I wonder if the little one is still adjusting...
ITA - I think this is wonderful advice. While I agree that you can't have one child running amok and injuring others, I would employ a way to keep them all coming as opposed to banishing them.

Heather, WAHM to DS (01/04)DD (06/06). Wed to DH(09/97)
The4OfUs is offline  
#13 of 20 Old 10-02-2006, 10:05 AM
 
4evermom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post
If the child is going to stay in the nursery, he needs a shadow.

My concern with asking the parents to stay with him is that they may not be proactive enough.

So, I would talk to the pastor/church council or whoever else has 'authority' and explain the situation and propose your solution -- which is that his parents need to come with him to the nursery AND shadow him while he's there in order to prevent infractions. If they see his hand raised, they need to gently take it and redirect him. If he hits/bites/throws once, they all get a warning, if it happens again, they're asked to take him into the sanctuary/somewhere else for the rest of the morning. But, they are free to come back every week while he learns. I agree that kicking him out means the family will stop coming to church.

At this age PREVENTION is much more effective than time-outs or anything like that. This child needs to get the message that hitting/throwing is not allowed. That's a much easier than understanding the 'time out' because he hit. Technically, 3 year olds are able to understand time outs, but they often don't work with highly impulsive kids.

I would also encourage the parents to make sure that he gets a good dose of outdoor running/large motor time before he comes to the nursery. If the nursery is a small space and he's an active kid, he may get upset when others get in his space.

So, I would encourage you to look at your space and your activities -- what can you do to facilitate this child's participation? How can you make the environment safe for him and the other kids? How can you work WITH the parents to make sure they are still welcome in your community? Is there a parenting group they can belong to? Is there a group of parents who meet regularly? Can you give them helpful reading material?
ITA Couldn't have said it better.

Mom to unschooling 4everboy since 8/01
4evermom is offline  
#14 of 20 Old 10-02-2006, 11:05 AM
 
becoming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would take the child to his parents immediately when you see any sign of aggressive behavior. He sounds really out of control, and the other children will begin to dread coming to the nursery if they have to be subject to his violence every time.
becoming is offline  
#15 of 20 Old 10-02-2006, 11:25 AM
 
Ellien C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in the middle ages
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like the teen idea. Is it an option to send him to Sunday school with older children? At our church the 4-7 yo go to Sunday school and the nursery is 3 and under. It sounds like this boy isn't doing well with younger children, but he might do better with kids bigger than him. Could you talk to the Sunday school teacher and see if she is willing to try him there for a week or 2?

Third generation WOHM. I work by choice.
Ellien C is offline  
#16 of 20 Old 10-02-2006, 02:41 PM
 
bscal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I taught 2 and 3 yr old preschool before having my first DD... who is now a strong willed, independent 3 1/2 year old who sometimes lacks impulse control (and engages in very aggressive behavior when stressed out or angry-biting, hiting, kicking, etc.) I have read every article I could put my hands on about how to teach her better self-control and the most effective way was to show her a "socially appropriate" way to express herself. For example, if she feels the need to bite, instead of biting someone she has a "biting ring" (hard plastic linking baby toy ring) that she wears on her wrist. If she is angry and want to hit or kick then she may take a throw pillow off the couch and hit it/yell at it/whatever until she feels better. I am trying my hardest to teach her that it is okay to have feelings and express them-it's okay to be upset or angry, etc. but it is NEVER okay to hurt someone else. We still have an occasional slip-up, typically when she's tired or has had an overly busy week, but for the most part I can sense when she is starting to get upset and make sure that we have a biting ring or pillow available if she needs it.

All that being said, I think when this whole ordeal started if ppl had kicked her out of playgroups, etc. that I would have been truly upset and not able to go back. Yes, you have the safety of the other children to consider but since this is a church environment perhaps finding another way to deal with this child's aggression would be good for him and his parents. If he is acting out at home as well then his parents may really need the support and encouragement that a church family can provide. My suggestion is to talk to the nursery coordinator (presuming you have one) or preacher, explain the situation and then suggest that you get an extra person in to help out for awhile. Then one of you can "shadow" the child and work on the above techniques for teaching this child appropriate ways to express his feelings. Good luck, I have been there both as a teacher and a parent and it takes tons of patience to deal with a child with aggression problems.

Beth
bscal is offline  
#17 of 20 Old 10-02-2006, 05:33 PM
 
nextcommercial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In our church, we needed the permission of the youth director to make any choices like kicking him out or asking one parent to stay.

I think if you ask one parent to stay, but not require it, the parent will either see how different his son is, or he will not really do anything to stop the behavior.

If you DO ask a parent to stay, let him or her know that his/her only job is to help their child learn appropriate friend behavior. They MUST stop him from hurting the other kids. If they are shadowing him, they should be able to intervene before he hurts someone.

Having a parent in the room with you will also give you a glimpse into what might be going on. Some kids are agressive, and impulsive. But some kids are acting out for a reason. If he is acting out because there is another problem, you might be able to learn more about him.

You could also be a sounding board to the parents if they need to talk. Perhaps they have opposite discilpline ideas. Maybe this boy needs some consistancy at home. Who knows, but you might be able to help them in some way if they stay in the room. Hopefully it will only take a month to get him into the swing of things.
nextcommercial is offline  
#18 of 20 Old 10-03-2006, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
bass chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rolling foothills
Posts: 547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like the idea of having a shadow. All the suggestions are great. I'd talk to the pastor, but the pastor is DH, and he's not too sure how to deal with it either. We have no nursery coordinator, it's always just me in there. Our church is so small and most everyone has a "job" to do, and there are no youth around to help in the nursery. Our nursery is growing so fast (6 babies this year alone, which is amazing considering our numbers are less than 30.)
The parents of this child are under a lot of stress - they have 4 boys...oldest is 12, youngest is 1. She has fibromyalgia. I've seen how their older boys treat their parents, and we would not allow our children to talk to us that way. They just do not discipline. I have difficulty asking the parents to stay in the nursery because I have seen how they "discipline" this 3 year old. If he grabbed toys in the past from other children, the dad just says, "No S. So-and-so was playing with that. Can you give it back?" and this child responds "NO! I hate giving it back." And then the dad just smiles and shrugs as if to say, "Well...what can I do. My son has spoken."
I'd give them a book on GD, but that would just be insulting to them, especially since they've been parenting longer than I.
I still don't know what to do...Although it sounds like no one is really for the time-out idea. I will watch him like a hawk next week, but with up to 9 kids and just one me that can be hard. He does have an older brother in the Sunday School - maybe he can sit with his brother...
bass chick is offline  
#19 of 20 Old 10-03-2006, 10:09 PM
 
saritabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well, first off, the nursery ought to have a game plan / policy as to how to deal with this.

I think this can be dealt with in a loving way, but it needs to be loving towards everyone...the child, the other children, the parents and the caregivers. I have to be honest, at times when my child was unable to play nicely with other kids, I have kept her home or stayed with her. I think the parents need to know how he really is behaving. He may be overwhelmed in that environment and really unable to cope.
I say really talk to the parents and find out what the deal is. Is there anyone there who is close to them?
saritabeth is offline  
#20 of 20 Old 10-06-2006, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
bass chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rolling foothills
Posts: 547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you all for the replies. We are talking to the parents and formulating a game plan together. I think the biggest step is done - just letting the parents know that this is not okay. Your replies gave me the confidence to get the ball rolling on this. Thanks!!!
bass chick is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off