"Time INs" *shudder* - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was just going through papers and found a really terrible article that the teacher of our infant sign language class gave us a few months back. The title is "The Newest Way To Get Kids To Behave," from Parents magazine Oct. 2005. Already I'm

Here are some choice passages:

Quote:
If giving a time-out to a child who misbehaves isn't working for you, you're not alone.[...] Instead of getting stricter, try a time-in: Reward and praise your child when he's being good, so he'll be inspired to keep it up.
[under the heading, "Be Affectionate"]

Quote:
Your child may act out because he wants attention, so look for opportunities to give it to him (unsolicited) when he's behaving well. Kiss your child's forehead when he's drawing quietly, or hug him when he shares nicely or helps out a sibling. Your child will be less inclined to misbehave if he knows he'll get more cuddles from Mom and Dad when he's good.
Quote:
It may take several weeks before your child starts modifying her behavior.
Quote:
...And when you do need to punish him, he'll be less likely to put up a fuss. Above all, he'll realize what he's missing when he gets a time-out: valuable time with you.
Although this woman was really nice and a great teacher, she had a tendancy to spout parenting advice as if she was an authority. And it wasn't always the most sound advice, imo. But I just had to share this article with someone who would groan along with me.
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#2 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 09:51 PM
 
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Sorry, I am not sure what we are groaning about. Is this not exactly what gentle discipline is about. Reinforcing the positive. That seems to be what I am reading in these article excerpts. Maybe I am missing something?

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#3 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 09:55 PM
 
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Other than the rewards for good behavior, I do these things. Some of these things are advocated in AP and Gentle Discipline books. I don't know...what do you think is wrong with them?

I'm open to rethinking this...but some of it seems like a good idea instead of the harsher discipline techniques.
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#4 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Viriditas View Post
Your child may act out because he wants attention, so look for opportunities to give it to him (unsolicited) when he's behaving well. Kiss your child's forehead when he's drawing quietly, or hug him when he shares nicely or helps out a sibling. Your child will be less inclined to misbehave if he knows he'll get more cuddles from Mom and Dad when he's good.
This sounds AP to me. I'd be curious what you and others think? AP? Not AP?
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#5 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 10:01 PM
 
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Some of the wording bugs me a little; "get kids to behave"... "when he's good"... etc.

But as a concept it seems pretty gentle and AP.
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#6 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 10:12 PM
 
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I can see where her comment "and when you do need to punish him, he'll be less likely to put up a fuss" is outside the reality of GD. I don't think GD reinforces good behavior so that children "tolerate" punishment better. But, I don't think that was her point. It seemed like she was trying to say that having lots of positive interactions, while minimizing the negative, will help a child learn to distinguish positive from negative experiences. Which in turn helps them see that
positive experiences are rewarding, and to feel motivated by positive interactions. I think all of that is within the concept of GD.

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#7 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 10:17 PM
 
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this makes me shudder as well:


Quote:
If giving a time-out to a child who misbehaves isn't working for you, you're not alone.[...] Instead of getting stricter, try a time-in: Reward and praise your child when he's being good, so he'll be inspired to keep it up.


this is nothing more than manipulation and along the "Catch'em being good" theory. i don't like the "being good" wording either, as though children aren't generally "good".


Quote:
Your child may act out because he wants attention, so look for opportunities to give it to him (unsolicited) when he's behaving well. Kiss your child's forehead when he's drawing quietly, or hug him when he shares nicely or helps out a sibling. Your child will be less inclined to misbehave if he knows he'll get more cuddles from Mom and Dad when he's good.


this is directly linking affection and love to desired behaviors. children should not be privvy to our love only when they do what pleases us. they should be valued no matter their deeds.



Quote:
...And when you do need to punish him, he'll be less likely to put up a fuss. Above all, he'll realize what he's missing when he gets a time-out: valuable time with you.


ahhh, the classic time-out "love-withdrawal" style.

now, i've heard of "Time-ins" in a more gd style. if your child is going nuts, swoop him up, give him affection, sit together on a couch, read a book, or just snuggle.
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#8 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 10:22 PM
 
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It's the concept of "Unconditional Parenting" vs. "Conditional Parenting", right? the article seems to promote the use of conditional parenting techniques (which then leads to the assumption of conditional love).

I like the idea of giving affection, but dislike the emphasis on showering affection when the child is behaving and withdrawing it when the child is misbehaving (love withdrawal). The idea that your child will be more likely to behave if he knows he will get more love and cuddles seems like the very definition of conditional parenting. Isn't the motivation to teach the child that with good behavior comes love/cuddles which then turns into good behavior = loved child, bad behavior = unloved child?

I thought perhaps from the thread title, that the article was refering to the "time ins" reccomended by Dr. Sears. That is, when a child is having problems, or acting out, he reccomends a "time in" the sling (or wrap, or other babywearing device) to help settle down and recenter.
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#9 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I didn't think it was gentle at all. Maybe gently manipulative and cold. I thought that behaviorism and conditional affection were generally looked down upon here. I just can't see giving my child the message, "Mommy loves you when you're quiet and unobtrusive, but if you're loud/hyper/upset/mad/act-in-any-way-I-don't-like, well, then, no kisses or hugs for you!"

Dedra and Molly- yes, you seem to get why I hated the article so much.
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#10 of 39 Old 10-10-2006, 10:53 PM
 
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It's the concept of "Unconditional Parenting" vs. "Conditional Parenting", right?
Well put. I think so too. Although "Unconditional Parenting" and "Gentle Discipline" are not identical concepts.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#11 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:24 AM
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I found the article to be gagaliscious. :Puke

Thank-you for sharing it.

I wonder if there aren't hordes of mainstream parents out there who feel in their guts that punishing their children is wrong, but feel that it's necessary under certain circumstances. Wanting to avoid those circumstances, they heap on the rewards and praise in hopes of avoiding the need to "get tough". Yah. Or something like that. It certainly seems that this gag-me article is feeding off of those fears and the discomfort with which the readers of that magazine are apt to feel when they resort to punishments.

Also... why the heck is that being presented as a new method of manipulation, er parenting? Did they run out of formula ads or something?
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#12 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 11:03 AM
 
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Of course it's a GD "issue!" What's gentle about manipulation and conditional attention? Yep, gagging on this end as well.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#13 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 11:11 AM
 
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I feel you, OP.

Treating kids like rats/pigeons/dogs and dangling the carrot in front of them just doesn't jive with what I'm trying to do.

And the whole: let them get a taste of the good stuff, so they'll miss it more when you take it away....just makes me so sad.
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#14 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 11:41 AM
 
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I looked at it as kind of an introduction to the idea of gentle parenting in a mainstream parenting magazine.

The language isn't exactly GD or UP or AP.

But it you look beyond the terminology in a general sense, the techniques are about gently giving positive attention to your child when discipline issues arise.

I like the idea of a time-in instead of a time-out and addressing a child acting out as a call for more one on one attention between parent and child.

I don't like terms like "punishment" and "reward" either but when I read it I thought maybe they were trying to reach a mainstream audience familiar with those techniques of discipline while advocating for a slightly more gentle approach.
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#15 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 11:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
I feel you, OP.

Treating kids like rats/pigeons/dogs and dangling the carrot in front of them just doesn't jive with what I'm trying to do.

And the whole: let them get a taste of the good stuff, so they'll miss it more when you take it away....just makes me so sad.
Well, that is a good point. Yes, it is sad.
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#16 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 11:47 AM
 
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It may not be up to our standards, but on a whole - it's waaay better than the majority of the predominant parenting methods out there in society. I'd rather see parents pile on the affection at neutral times and decrease their use of punishment. I do think it's a step in the right direction, just not all the way there.
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#17 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:03 PM
 
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It may not be up to our standards, but on a whole - it's waaay better than the majority of the predominant parenting methods out there in society. I'd rather see parents pile on the affection at neutral times and decrease their use of punishment. I do think it's a step in the right direction, just not all the way there.

That's how I saw it. Not quite MDC's brand of GD, but if an inexperienced parent decided to employ those "methods" precisely, it would probably bring about a much better result than the use of frequent time-outs, "naughty chairs", yelling, blaming, shaming, etc.
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#18 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:18 PM
 
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It may not be up to our standards, but on a whole - it's waaay better than the majority of the predominant parenting methods out there in society. I'd rather see parents pile on the affection at neutral times and decrease their use of punishment. I do think it's a step in the right direction, just not all the way there.
i couldn't agree more
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#19 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:23 PM
 
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You have to tell parents to kiss their kid on the forehead? You have to tell them to be affectionate? What planet am I on? Don't people just do that anyway because they are moved to by love and pride? Aren't they just sincerely excited when their kid does something neat?

This is making me cry.

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#20 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hipcoolmama View Post
I don't like terms like "punishment" and "reward" either but when I read it I thought maybe they were trying to reach a mainstream audience familiar with those techniques of discipline while advocating for a slightly more gentle approach.
:

When I see articles like this, my hope is that a mainstream parent who is familiar with the phrasing/language has been reached and that hopefully one child will live in a more peaceful, gentle environment because of it.
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#21 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 01:44 PM
 
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You have to tell parents to kiss their kid on the forehead? You have to tell them to be affectionate? What planet am I on? Don't people just do that anyway because they are moved to by love and pride? Aren't they just sincerely excited when their kid does something neat?

This is making me cry.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It is sad. But, I think some parents, more than we probably want to think about, might not do the things you mentioned on their own.

I mean, my parents didn't. My grandparents didn't.

And, it never hurts to reinforce the idea of gentle discipline and loving discipline to stressed out parents who are at wits end with a toddler who is "misbehaving" or acting out because some of his/her needs are not being met.

I think many times discipline happens when parents are stressed, distracted by another child's needs, or when they are juggling other issues in their lives. So, the discipline isn't well thought out or gentle.
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#22 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 01:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain optimism View Post
You have to tell parents to kiss their kid on the forehead? You have to tell them to be affectionate? What planet am I on? Don't people just do that anyway because they are moved to by love and pride? Aren't they just sincerely excited when their kid does something neat?

This is making me cry.
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#23 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 01:54 PM
 
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Of course it's a GD "issue!" What's gentle about manipulation and conditional attention? Yep, gagging on this end as well.

Yes!!!!
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#24 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by captain optimism View Post
You have to tell parents to kiss their kid on the forehead? You have to tell them to be affectionate? What planet am I on? Don't people just do that anyway because they are moved to by love and pride? Aren't they just sincerely excited when their kid does something neat?

This is making me cry.
I completely agree but I see people all the time who don't seem to interact with their child and their child does not seem to expect them to.

When I read the article quotes, I thought, "that doesn't apply to me because I give positive attention to DD all the time but gosh, I wish more people here would give attention to their children." It's sad.
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#25 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I suppose fake, manipulative affection is better than none at all. But saying that this method is a step toward gd seems to me like saying that my sil is practicing a "mellower" form of gd because she only "swats" her children on the butt and only when they do something really bad. I mean she isn't beating them with plastic tubing, right?

eta: Okay, I read through some of the posts again, and while I would in no way call this gd, I can see how it would be better for a mainstream parent to read and use this than to keep on yelling/spanking/isolating their child all the time. But it still makes me gag!
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#26 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 02:51 PM
 
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Well, I didn't think it was gentle at all. Maybe gently manipulative and cold. I thought that behaviorism and conditional affection were generally looked down upon here. I just can't see giving my child the message, "Mommy loves you when you're quiet and unobtrusive, but if you're loud/hyper/upset/mad/act-in-any-way-I-don't-like, well, then, no kisses or hugs for you!"
I agree with you. At first I thought "oh, its not that bad" but then my thought was "ooh, ick!"

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#27 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 04:03 PM
 
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FWIW, there's another "form" of a "time-in"--it has to do with making a commitment to your child to spend x amount of completely uninterrupted time with him. You know--not answering the phone, making sure the younger (or older) sibling is otherwise occupied or cared for: total attention. My understanding is that with toddlers, it can help a lot with sibling rivalries, tantrums, etc.

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#28 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 04:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PMolly View Post
I thought perhaps from the thread title, that the article was refering to the "time ins" reccomended by Dr. Sears. That is, when a child is having problems, or acting out, he reccomends a "time in" the sling (or wrap, or other babywearing device) to help settle down and recenter.
That's what I though too. Not saying the author's idea is bad, I just know that when Dd is acting up is when she need "time in" the most.
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#29 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 04:52 PM
 
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From my perspective, the excerpts posted in the OP are really manipulative. However, there's a woman I know, and when I picture her kids, and think about what it would be like if she switched to this approach...wow! I'd SO like to see her start doing this. She's already manipulative, but at least this way the kids would be getting some positive attention.

The thing is, though - you can read it different ways. Is the author saying "kiss them on the forehead, even if you don't feel like it", or is the author saying, "when you feel that surge of love, show them"? I really can't tell. I know a lot of people actually resist the urge to hug/kiss/cuddle their kids. My mom once told me that she quit hugging us when we hit our teens, and she's really grateful to a friend of mine...my friend hugged everybody, and I picked up the habit and brought it home, so mom started hugging us again. I can't fathom someone as loving as my mom not hugging us just because we were teens, but that's what happened...

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#30 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 05:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by claras_mom View Post
FWIW, there's another "form" of a "time-in"--it has to do with making a commitment to your child to spend x amount of completely uninterrupted time with him. You know--not answering the phone, making sure the younger (or older) sibling is otherwise occupied or cared for: total attention. My understanding is that with toddlers, it can help a lot with sibling rivalries, tantrums, etc.
I think I really need to do this with ds1. Thanks for the reminder.

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