Son bullied by three year olds - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
Sarain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: VANCOUVER BC
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh I REALLY need to VENT here!

Today I went to a Le Leche Leauge meeting with my 10.5 month old son, and I'm feeling pretty up-set at something that happened to him there..

All of us mom's were gatherd in a circle talking with the babies and kids playing in the middle. When all of a sudden a little three year old boy say's in a loud and mean voice to my baby " I'm going to cut your arms off!" and then an other little boy comes over and say's to my son "Yeah, we're going to cut you in half!" Although my son isn't old enough to understand what they were saying, he could pick up on the tone of there voices that it was not friendly, and he looked hurt and confused. Everyone at the meeting could hear what was said, including the mothers of the boys..However, nothing was done. The mother's did not seem to think this was a big deal. One mom my just said "oh my" and giggled a bit. I don't think my baby getting bullied is amusing or cute at all.
Are these mother's afraid to correct, and teach thier children about bullying, violence, as well as kindness, and feelings?? Also at this meeting these two little boy's were yelling, banging around and what not while the mom's were trying to talk! One new mom was very up-set and crying beacause she's having a lot of problems with breastfeeding, but we could hardly hear her with the boy's bashing toys together! Is this what GD is? Or are these just mom's who are affraid to correct/teach thier kids?? I wonder if other mothers could see that what was happening to my son was bullying? TWO kids GANGING up to threaten another child..What else could you call it?! It was shocking to see anyone ( yes, even three year olds) be mean to my son, because of couse being a happy little baby, almost all people he come's in contact with adore him. How dare ANYONE direct negativity towards my child! ahhhhh!

This is really bringing up a lot of emotions for me, because I was severly bullied at school as a child and it was horrible. My self-esteem was very low, and I absolutly hated most of my childhood BECAUSE of bullying. So seeing this happen to my baby today was extreamly up-setting to me. It really bother's me that some adults think bullying is no big deal, that it builds character! Abuse/Bullying/Violence is ALWAYS a big deal no matter what the age!! I'm planning on going back to more meetings, but if these kids threaten/bully my son again..I don't think I'm going to be able to sit back and let it happen. If this happen's again how should I handle it? Also I'm really thinking of home schooling now!

Thanks for letting me vent, I feel a bit better now.
Sarain is offline  
#2 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 05:49 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What do you think should have happened?

I think the mom should have said something to the boys along the lines of "That's not a nice way to talk to someone." Or if the boys were play fighting with a baby the mom should have redirected them.

The 3 year olds banging toys, running and being loud sounds like normal 3 year old behaviour.
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#3 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 05:51 AM
 
NewCrunchyDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Burrow
Posts: 2,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm so sorry this happened to you and your son. How awful. I don't have any advice for you ... yet ... but I am interested in seeing what other Mamas say because while it hasn't happened directly to my DS yet (who is 13 months) ... there have been some instances where similar things have been close to happening but have been averted at the last minute. So, I'd also like to hear any suggestions on how to handle such a situation. Sorry that's not helpful.

(Honestly though, if I had been there and thought I could have acted without fear of reprisal, so to speak, I would have put the fear of the Everlasting God into those two bullies. : )

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

NewCrunchyDaddy is offline  
#4 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 05:58 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it's possible that 3year olds would like to engage the baby somehow, but don't always think of the best possible way to do it.

When my second was just 2 ish and he wanted to engage another child for play he'd walk up and spit raspberries on the other child. This was up to me to guide him in more socially acceptable ways of interacting with others. But was it malicious on his part?

My son also had a two year old friend that really liked him. He showed this by biting or pushing my son down at every possible turn. It was up to both of us moms to prevent it happening and if it did happen to comfort the injured and redirect the offending behaviour to more socially acceptable ways. They are now almost 3 and the two of them are best buddies.

Kids don't always make the best choices when interacting with each other. They are learning. It's up to the moms to guide acceptable behaviour.
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#5 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:03 AM
 
NewCrunchyDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Burrow
Posts: 2,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinSeeds View Post
I think it's possible that 3year olds would like to engage the baby somehow, but don't always think of the best possible way to do it.

When my second was just 2 ish and he wanted to engage another child for play he'd walk up and spit raspberries on the other child. This was up to me to guide him in more socially acceptable ways of interacting with others. But was it malicious on his part?

My son also had a two year old friend that really liked him. He showed this by biting or pushing my son down at every possible turn. It was up to both of us moms to prevent it happening and if it did happen to comfort the injured and redirect the offending behaviour to more socially acceptable ways. They are now almost 3 and the two of them are best buddies.

Kids don't always make the best choices when interacting with each other. They are learning. It's up to the moms to guide acceptable behaviour.
But that seems to be the crux of the problem. The moms weren't doing anything of the sort. What do you do then?

And for the record, I think that statements such as "I'm going to cut your arms off!" and "Yeah, we're going to cut you in half!" go way beyond trying to "engage the baby somehow." That gets into some scary waters whether they're 3-year-olds or 30-year-olds.

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

NewCrunchyDaddy is offline  
#6 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:04 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Someday you will have a 3 year old too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy View Post

(Honestly though, if I had been there and thought I could have acted without fear of reprisal, so to speak, I would have put the fear of the Everlasting God into those two bullies. : )
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#7 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:05 AM
 
NewCrunchyDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Burrow
Posts: 2,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinSeeds View Post
Someday you will have a 3 year old too....
Yes I will ... and that sort of behavior will not be tolerated and will be stopped immediately, and it's the sort of behavior that if I don't see, I would appreciate someone bringing to my attention because saying something like that is not acceptable.

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

NewCrunchyDaddy is offline  
#8 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:07 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If it was me, in the situation the OP described, I would have said, "that's not a very nice thing to say. I don't think baby wants to play with someone who says rude things. Can you think of something nicer to say?"
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#9 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:10 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree and I don't tolerate that sort of behaviour from my boys. But to think it will never happen or never come up is unrealistic in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy View Post
Yes I will ... and that sort of behavior will not be tolerated and will be stopped immediately, and it's the sort of behavior that if I don't see, I would appreciate someone bringing to my attention because saying something like that is not acceptable.
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#10 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:15 AM
 
NewCrunchyDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Burrow
Posts: 2,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
.

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

NewCrunchyDaddy is offline  
#11 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:18 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#12 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:36 AM
 
guestmama9911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You two are on the same page, essentially, that this behavior needs to be redirected. However, I don't think it is fair to call someone naive for feeling confident that they can curb violent tendencies in a child. You said yourself that you redirect the behavior, which shows that you don't tolerate it, either. NCDaddy will not be a parent who stands by while his child bullies others or gets bullied. That's not naive, that's good parenting.

I agree with the suggestion of addressing the children directly by saying "that's not a very nice thing to say..." particularly if the child's mother doesn't intervene. I have done this more than once, spoken directly to a child who had either pushed my child or stolen his toys. "Pushing isn't very nice, so-and-so. Can you please tell me what is wrong so we can solve your problem?" or "Ooops, you took DS' toy without asking. He wasn't done with it. Will you please give it back?"

I haven't had any parents complain yet, but I sure as hell have no problem telling a parent that their child pushed mine or did something mean. I'm a mama bear when it comes to my son. And holy crap, if some kids said that to my child, I definitely would have intervened. That kind of talk is creepy. I'd like to think I'd be an adult about it, but more than likely I would have said "Woah, I don't think so!" and would have picked up my son and held him away.
guestmama9911 is offline  
#13 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 06:51 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't doubt that you or your dh are fabulous parents.

Personally, the situation described in the OP wouldn't have shocked me very much. I would have thought maybe one or the other 3yo had an older sibling or friend with which they "play fight". Do three year old's always make the best choices when trying to interact with others? No. Do I think the mother should have intervened? Yes. WOuld I have intervened? Yes. Would I have called the 3yo a bully or put the everlasting fear of G. in him? No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
You two are on the same page, essentially, that this behavior needs to be redirected. However, I don't think it is fair to call someone naive for feeling confident that they can curb violent tendencies in a child. You said yourself that you redirect the behavior, which shows that you don't tolerate it, either. NCDaddy will not be a parent who stands by while his child bullies others or gets bullied. That's not naive, that's good parenting.
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#14 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 07:36 AM
 
ewe+lamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: just journeying along .....
Posts: 2,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Did the LLL Leader not ask the mothers to look after their children? It is the mother's responsibility that the children behave - LLL promotes Loving Guidance so therefore I think you should have been supported by your leader. I would have a word with her about the behaviour of the 3 year olds and ask her to make an announcement at the beginning of the next meeting saying that although this is time for mothers to support each other, the mother's first responsibility is her child so that the meeting is not disrupted, I have been to meetings where I just couldn't participate because I had to 'look after' my daughter it's annoying to miss stuff but I think it is more respectful to the other mothers to make sure that my child behaves properly. Well that's what we do at our meetings. I hope that you manage to go to other meetings where the actions of the toddlers is directed in a more effective manner.

ewe + dh = our little lambs + we and have many just : and : life .
ewe+lamb is offline  
#15 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 09:50 AM
 
mamaduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think that when you are the new parent of a baby, and do not have older children, its very common to experience other people's older children as big, threatening and obnoxious. I know that I did.

I also think that it would have been perfectly appropriate for YOU to speak to the little boys about your discomfort. There is no reason to sit and wait for their mothers to intervene. You could have said, "He's just a little baby, and he thinks you are very big guys! Can you speak more gently to him please, so that he doesn't get scared?"

I think that calling it "bullying" is a little bit extreme. I try to be careful not to attribute big kid or adult motives/behavior to little kids! I don't really think a 3 year old being verbally innapropriate to a baby who is safetly in his mother's arms constitutes a real threat.

I don't think that their words necessarily indicate "violent tendencies." I think they must have heard something or seen something (or multiple things) that they needed to play out in order to process. Violent play is classic at age 3 --- it almost seems like there is some cognitive leap at this point in development, and they need to play out the negative things they hear about in order to move past them.

I am wondering if either of them go to sunday school, and possibly heard the story about King Solomon announcing that he was going to cut the baby in half to resolve the dispute between the two mothers? Imagine for a minute that this is where they got the idea -- if someone big jumped in and put them down very sharply for reinacting this theme, it would be very confusing for them. So I think it needs to be gently redirected in the moment, and I hope that their mother processes with them later.

Like Pumkinseeds, nothing much about this incident surprises me. The loud banging play sounds normal for 3 year olds. The inappropriate language to the baby sounds like normal 3 year old experimentation.
mamaduck is offline  
#16 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 10:12 AM
 
chfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: in a red state
Posts: 4,754
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
3 year olds are toddlers...very little kids. They do seem very big and very verbal and very loud when you have an infant....but they aren't.

I think the only suggestion I might make is to think about healing up that low self-esteem, angry place from being bullied at school, so you can negociate the rough waters of 2-5 with grace and joy.

Coloroso's The Bully, the Bullied and the Bystander is a wonderful book about bullying that might help a bit.

I'm so sorry other kids hurt you growing up.
chfriend is offline  
#17 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 10:37 AM
 
TinkerBelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A 3 yr old saying they want to cut someone's arms doesn't seem quite normal to me.

Those other moms should have corrected their children. If you do NOTHING when your child acts like that, you are wrong.

No one is saying to beat the kids into a pulp or scream at them. But surely there is something that could have and should have been done. I have often seen moms in stores, etc, just allowing their kids to run helter skelter and just say things like, "now huuuuunnny. pleeeeeese don't ruuuuun." Or just smiling at them. It is just unreal.

Oh and I have a 9 yr old, a 7 yr old and a 1 yr old. I have BTDT. My boys have not been angels. But, if one of them had said such a horrible thing, there would have been consequences. Leaving would have most likely been the main one.

I am shocked at the defending of the 3 yr olds and their mothers, quite frankly. And at the insinuation that the parents who think this is terrible are somehow naive.
TinkerBelle is offline  
#18 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 10:48 AM
 
Fruitful4Him's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I have seen this sort of behavior..at LLL and other misc. parenting groups. I do think that the moms should say/do something to guide their children appropriately..but if they don't/won't, then you should gently step in.. (maybe they would step in then?). Not as an excuse, but I think that sometimes these moms are just so exausted and happy/thankful to be around other adults/moms that they just sort of "forget" about the discipline issues. It can be rough though. I would just try to set a good example in how you approach things and maybe the other moms will follow suit.. or, if it makes you really, really uncomfortable you could talk to the leader about your concerns so she can make a verbal reminder at the start of the meeting. I have 4 children.. 7,6, and 17 month old girls and 1 very loving but occasionally rambuctious 3 and 1/2 yr old boy. I have noticed that my boy is more rough and tumble..but he can be sweet and loving too. I have watched other 3/4 yr olds play and some of it gets a lil rough..so, best to keep a watchful eye on 'em.. but generally, it is just playful stuff. I just redirect and try to explain more appropriate behavior. I get a lil worried about some of the other rough behavior or words I see in other little boys but I just keep my eyes open in case other parents aren't, for safety reasons.

 Mama to my tribe
Fruitful4Him is offline  
#19 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 10:59 AM
 
Mama8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UT
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaduck View Post
I think that when you are the new parent of a baby, and do not have older children, its very common to experience other people's older children as big, threatening and obnoxious. I know that I did.

I also think that it would have been perfectly appropriate for YOU to speak to the little boys about your discomfort. There is no reason to sit and wait for their mothers to intervene. You could have said, "He's just a little baby, and he thinks you are very big guys! Can you speak more gently to him please, so that he doesn't get scared?"

I think that calling it "bullying" is a little bit extreme. I try to be careful not to attribute big kid or adult motives/behavior to little kids! I don't really think a 3 year old being verbally inappropriate to a baby who is safely in his mother's arms constitutes a real threat.

I don't think that their words necessarily indicate "violent tendencies." I think they must have heard something or seen something (or multiple things) that they needed to play out in order to process. Violent play is classic at age 3 --- it almost seems like there is some cognitive leap at this point in development, and they need to play out the negative things they hear about in order to move past them.

I am wondering if either of them go to sunday school, and possibly heard the story about King Solomon announcing that he was going to cut the baby in half to resolve the dispute between the two mothers? Imagine for a minute that this is where they got the idea -- if someone big jumped in and put them down very sharply for reinacting this theme, it would be very confusing for them. So I think it needs to be gently redirected in the moment, and I hope that their mother processes with them later.

Like Pumkinseeds, nothing much about this incident surprises me. The loud banging play sounds normal for 3 year olds. The inappropriate language to the baby sounds like normal 3 year old experimentation.
: Mamaduck you said it well. A 3 yr old is still very young a toddler. They should have been redirected gently. You would be surprised what can come out of perfectly normal 3 yr olds. My nephew who is now 15 took great delight one day when he was 3 to go into great detail how I was going to be eating by a monster, complete with blood and skin peeling off explanations. When I asked him if he would save me he said no he would laugh. My nephew was not allowed to play with guns knives or watch even pg shows. He was not exposed to violence in the home. At 15 he is a very caring compassionate young man. He just thought it was funny for me to be eaten by a monster and delighted in telling me all the details he could think of. That said, Yes the boys should have been redirected. But to call them bullies is too extreme.
I think that it is a very good idea to speak with the LLL leader about the noise level so she can address the group. Sometimes as a mama you can be deaf to you own child's loudness and rambunctious activities. I think they were behaving pretty normal for 3 yr olds.
Mama8 is offline  
#20 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 11:05 AM
 
Aeress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Neat the Shores of Lake Erie
Posts: 6,501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have witnessed similair scenarious when at work (worked at a daycare). Often times it seems the parents are unsure of embarrassed about the situation and don't know what to say. Sometimes giving them words to use is helpful...ie "that loud voice is scary to a baby. talk quieter."

It is fustrating and nerve wracking to have to watch another parent "do nothing" but often times it isn't becuase they don't want to do anything but rather, they don't know how.

Dhjammin.gif, Me knit.gif, DD 10 REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, DD 7 cat.gif, DD 4 joy.gif

We reading.gif, homeschool.gif, cold.gif, eat.gif, sleepytime.gif not in that order

Aeress is offline  
#21 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 12:19 PM
 
beanma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: with the dustbunnies & sugar beans
Posts: 8,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
oh, i disagree. i think it's perfectly normal, though probably needs addressing. if i was upset i would have said something myself if the other moms didn't step in. i remember being at a 4 year old little boy friend's house for a playgroup and the two of the kids were talking about a big machine that was going to come in the window and cut them all to pieces. this was a VERY gentle AP playgroup and very gentle parents and kids. this is just normal developmentally. that is not to make excuses for the moms and say it didn't need to be dealt with. if it is threatening to another child or mom it definitely needs to be addressed. if the moms don't do it feel free to step in yourself.

i know how that can feel when someone threatens your child. grrrrrr... just yesterday i had to rescue my 5 yr old from a hug turned tackle. another little girl had hugged her and ended up pushing her to the ground where my dd1 slightly scraped her palm and was crying. the other mom was right there, but didn't say a thing because she was talking to someone else, so you bet i did.

don't stew over these things, just step in if nobody else will. "hey, that's not nice!" or "i don't like the way that sounds and i don't think baby does either. please use gentle words and hands around baby."

hth

Mamatreehugger.gif to two girl beans, Feb 2001hearts.gif and Nov 2003coolshine.gif . DH geek.gif, and two crazydog2.gifdog2.gif . Running on biodiesel since 2004!
 
"All you fascists are bound to lose" — Woody Guthrie
beanma is online now  
#22 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 12:31 PM
 
hhurd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinSeeds View Post
Personally, the situation described in the OP wouldn't have shocked me very much. Do three year old's always make the best choices when trying to interact with others? No. Do I think the mother should have intervened? Yes. WOuld I have intervened? Yes. Would I have called the 3yo a bully or put the everlasting fear of G. in him? No.

Amen to that!

Three was the hardest age for me. Agression, agression, agression, whether it was "tolerated" by us or not.

And, a 3yo cannot (developmentally) be a bully.
hhurd is offline  
#23 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 12:40 PM
 
Finch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC!
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy View Post
Yes I will ... and that sort of behavior will not be tolerated and will be stopped immediately
Oh dear, please take that statement back. Seriously. You'll be eating fresh baked crow with those words in 2 years is my prediction. I made a lot of "when my child is x age or when my child does such and such I will________" statements, and they were all WRONG wrong wrong. It all changes when it's your kid. My child can be unbelievably aggressive, it's part of the fact that he's a toddler and also that he has autism. I curb it when I can, shield other children and adults diligently, and apologize when he manages to hurt someone . But his aggression literally cannot be controlled sometimes. Literally. All I can do is remove him from other people or the other way 'round, no amount of "discipline" will stop him, his brain just doesn't work that way.
Finch is offline  
#24 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 12:41 PM
 
Finch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC!
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanma View Post
oh, i disagree. i think it's perfectly normal, though probably needs addressing. if i was upset i would have said something myself if the other moms didn't step in. i remember being at a 4 year old little boy friend's house for a playgroup and the two of the kids were talking about a big machine that was going to come in the window and cut them all to pieces. this was a VERY gentle AP playgroup and very gentle parents and kids. this is just normal developmentally. that is not to make excuses for the moms and say it didn't need to be dealt with. if it is threatening to another child or mom it definitely needs to be addressed. if the moms don't do it feel free to step in yourself.

i know how that can feel when someone threatens your child. grrrrrr... just yesterday i had to rescue my 5 yr old from a hug turned tackle. another little girl had hugged her and ended up pushing her to the ground where my dd1 slightly scraped her palm and was crying. the other mom was right there, but didn't say a thing because she was talking to someone else, so you bet i did.

don't stew over these things, just step in if nobody else will. "hey, that's not nice!" or "i don't like the way that sounds and i don't think baby does either. please use gentle words and hands around baby."

hth
:
Finch is offline  
#25 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 12:49 PM
 
mamaduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
And, a 3yo cannot (developmentally) be a bully.
Thank you for saying that!

I think its GREAT that the problem of bullying is getting more attention these days, and that adults are more hypervigilent and proactive about nipping it in the bud. But I think that generalizing the problem to the extent of including developmentally normal behaviors in very young children creates further problems. There has to be some room for growing, learning, and making mistakes.

Also, it weakens the case against real bullying -- and as I understand it, there has to be a genuine threat involved for it to be bullying. Two 5th graders on the playground, threatening violence to a 3rd grade child when no adult is present to see -- is a very different scenerio than two three year old toddler's playing too aggressively and being verbally innapropriate toward babies in a room full of adults.
mamaduck is offline  
#26 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 01:04 PM
 
**guest**'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: surrounded by water
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i'm not very comfortable with labels in general, even with 'positive' ones, i feel especially uncomfortable when the word 'bully' is applied to a 3 year old.

i agree with pps that their behaviour was normal 3-year old stuff. i would have said something that was already mentioned, i would have stated that that wasn't appropriate, then redirected or modeled something appropriate to say, depending on their interest. yet i can certainly see a parent who might just get embarassed, especially if feeling judged. we also need to remember that LLL meetings could be stressful for toddlers -- adults, children, new environment etc.

it is possible that these mothers had younger cousins or other babies that these toddlers frequently interracted with -- even though this was not an appropriate interaction, one gets more accustomed to normal toddler behaviour and to normal baby reactions -- most of the times babies are not upset.

when dd was almost 3 and her brother was 4 months, she would often tickle him, and while she tickled gently, she was also reenacting a lion , and he loved it. then at a LLL meeting she came over to another baby and tickled him, exactly how she would tickle her brother. the baby didn't mind at all, he was amused. the mother was horriefied. accidently, that was also a mother was talked about bullying on our group list, and she was also bullied as a child. she later started a topic about bullying and it was obvious that she was referring to my dd 'assaulting' her baby.

i can understand a new mother's reaction of overprotectiveness, when every older child seems huge and dangerous, and 'should be mature enough' and behave like an adult. but labeling this as bullying is not appropriate either.

you went through horrendous experiences as a child. i'd like to offer your empathy and compassion. i'd also like to suggest to you to start working on healing yourself. very soon your adorable baby will be an adorable toddler. because of your experiences, you might perceive his normal behaviours in a negative light, especially if you unconsciously categorise every behaviour as either bullying or not. this will be terrible if you see your own child as a 'bully'.

please take care of yourself.
**guest** is offline  
#27 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 01:17 PM
 
Canadianmommax3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My dd who is 2.5 and i were at goodwill yesterday looking at the books and there was a boy about 4 who was with his either babysitter or grandmother. He walked up to my daughter got right in her face and said go away loudly!!
Grandma was right there and said nothing, so i took dd and we walked away elsewhere. We came back when he was in another section but he came back and walked up to dd and pushed her. Well i got pissed real quick and told him not to push her she is just a little girl and and wasn't doing anything to him. Well he changed his tune quickly and tried to hand her a toy.
She just backed away from him.
I tell you when someone is mean to my daughter my GD towards the other child wants to take a flying leap out the window!! I wanted to say listen you little snot keep your hands to yourself. but i didn't
Canadianmommax3 is offline  
#28 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 01:26 PM
 
captain optimism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Good Ship Lollipop
Posts: 7,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarain View Post
However, nothing was done. The mother's did not seem to think this was a big deal. One mom my just said "oh my" and giggled a bit. I don't think my baby getting bullied is amusing or cute at all.
Are these mother's afraid to correct, and teach thier children about bullying, violence, as well as kindness, and feelings?? Also at this meeting these two little boy's were yelling, banging around and what not while the mom's were trying to talk! One new mom was very up-set and crying beacause she's having a lot of problems with breastfeeding, but we could hardly hear her with the boy's bashing toys together! Is this what GD is? Or are these just mom's who are affraid to correct/teach thier kids??
No, this is not what GD is.

These moms might have been too tired or overwhelmed to deal with their older children. That's not GD; that's lack of resources.

It's okay for you to intervene and tell them you don't want them saying violent things to your baby. You can even be stern about it. In most cases that should be enough to make it stop!

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
captain optimism is offline  
#29 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 02:14 PM
 
newmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OP, do make sure you place the blame where it *belongs*:

NOT the 3 year olds.

Their Moms.

It doesn't excuse their behaviors but they are THREE.

You are going to run into these type of situations all the time (where Mothers refuse to discipline their child(ren) where appropriate).

I have no problems stepping up when another Parent won't. When DS was that age, I had to step in plenty of times. I don't *wait* for a signal, I step in and respond accordingly.
newmommy is offline  
#30 of 79 Old 12-12-2006, 02:23 PM
 
mesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
to the OP, I would have felt the exact same way you did if faced with that situation. There's nothing more powerful than the mama bear emotions, and I feel for you. I'm sorry that some of the posters here don't think your reaction was appropriate....hindsight is always 20/20 and it's really easy to sit back and say what you "would" have done or how you would have reacted in that situation.

When it comes to my kid's feelings and self esteem vs. "some other kid" who may or may not have been serious in what he has said to my child, I will ALWAYS defend my child. In the moment, you often don't have time to sit back and analyze, well, Johnny *may* be feeling this way, and that's why he said what he did....or Susie is just picking that up from her next door neighbor's kids. No....the simple truth is, what they said was WRONG, their mothers should have done something about it (if only to placate the mom of the kid wronged) or I would have left. Simple as that.

People parent their kids differently, and GD (to me) doesn't mean letting your child run roughshod over smaller weaker children (whether your kid is 3 or 13...at what age does it become inappropriate? When are they supposed to learn?) or, conversely, allowing your child to be pushed around or spoken rudely to by larger, stronger, older children.

I'm sorry that happened to you. I can't even count the numbers of times I have had similar things happen to my boys on the playground, and the sick, angry feeling it brings up in the pit of your stomach is very real, and very unpleasant. Nobody wants to see their children hurt, and I agree with NewCrunchyDaddy that I would (and HAVE) put the fear of God into them. And I refuse to apologize for it.

If a child is being deliberately mean to mine (or mine is to another child) not just saying goofy things...I have boys, they say some pretty off the wall stuff sometimes, but I gauge my reaction based on the other child's reaction, I will react swiftly, strongly, and in no uncertain terms let it be known that said behavior will NOT be tolerated. I have been known to say, (in a loud enough voice for child's mom to hear) That is NOT nice! While picking up my son and saying to him, I'm sorry honey, some kids just don't understand very well how to play like a friend.

If mom is on her cell phone, eating, or talking with friends (and ignoring her kid...happens a lot) I have been known to walk over to her and open my sharp mouth about supervising her kid. I've done it to neglectful dog owners in the dog park, too, when their dogs were bullying mine.

I'm angry for you, and I wasn't even there. Hugs to you

Misti, mom to DS (12), DS (9), DD (3), and Mr. Man (October '10)!

mesa is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off