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#151 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 06:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Attila the Honey View Post
I don't really have a problem with that "ask for another piece of cheese" solution, just like I don't have a problem with the 'enforced sharing' solution, both seem fine to me. But, for the sake of argument, what do you do if the deli worker says, "Sorry, cheese is for kids 2 and up only." or "Sorry, one slice per family." or the deli worker goes in the back and doesn't come out for 10 minutes and there is no one to get another slice of cheese from?
I wonder the same thnig.

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#152 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 06:16 PM
 
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I think there are many possible mutually agreeable solutions in this situation. There are usually lots of samples available at our grocery store, but I also don't have a problem opening something before I pay for it, or I might have a snack in my purse. I don't really see the point in going through all of the possibilities--there are so many options that may or may not work in any given situation.
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#153 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 06:20 PM
 
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You just remember to ask at the time. If you go to a store with samples it becomes second nature. Also, as I said, dd1 always speaks up for dd2 in these situations.

As for the other times. First, I'd cross that bridge when I come to it. I'd be unlikely to frequent a store that overrode my decisions about what my kids can and can't eat or had no one at the deli counter for 10 minutes at a time.

That scenario sounds like borrowing trouble. What if the roof crashed in before you could get the words out? What if the cheese caught fire? You have to have enough faith in yourself that you'll keep thinking and requesting until you reach a solution.

I don't id as CL or TCS or anything else. I just live with these people and work to get along.
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#154 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 09:14 PM
 
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Most likely, asking the deli worker for another piece of cheese.
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#155 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 09:16 PM
 
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You just remember to ask at the time. If you go to a store with samples it becomes second nature. Also, as I said, dd1 always speaks up for dd2 in these situations.

As for the other times. First, I'd cross that bridge when I come to it. I'd be unlikely to frequent a store that overrode my decisions about what my kids can and can't eat or had no one at the deli counter for 10 minutes at a time.

That scenario sounds like borrowing trouble. What if the roof crashed in before you could get the words out? What if the cheese caught fire? You have to have enough faith in yourself that you'll keep thinking and requesting until you reach a solution.

I don't id as CL or TCS or anything else. I just live with these people and work to get along.
point taken.

But I think it's as conceivable that maybe you couldn't get another piece of cheese as it is to think that a deli worker would see 2 kids and only give one piece! Both scenarios are to me, and I am honestly curious what would be the thing to do if 2 slices of cheese weren't an option and you didn't believe in 'enforced sharing'.

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#156 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 09:26 PM
 
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ask dd1 if she was willing to share her cheese. if the answer is no and there is no more free cheese, get a package of cheese, bust into it, let the baby eat some and pay for it on the way out.

i've never had a sample-giver begrudge the second child a piece. seems like it kind of defeats the purpose of the sampling. and the kids in our family choose the cheese, so it behooves the sample-giver to interest the kids in their cheese!
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#157 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 09:27 PM
 
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Honestly, I do my very best to avoid taking everyone to the grocery store :.

The only issue I have with *meeting everyone's needs* and *working toward mutually agreeable solutions* in practice (while I wholeheartedly think it's a fabulous concept in theory) if I were to put myself and my three dc in this situation is that *for us right now* my children each seem to be at ages where they're not so into working things out so everyone's happy And then someone has to go to the bathroom. Now. Two year old doesn't care that 7 yo wants the whole piece--she wants it NOW, 4 yr. old is crying he wants to get out and walk (and he's not a stay-right-by-mama guy) so that I wait for the deli worker to return to ask for another piece...

Sometimes, it's really hard.

But I love that we can hash it out to pick out the essence of what's perhaps underneath the OP's original concerns And I also like the idea that we all assume we're doing the very best we can at the moment, and if we're not, we're working on getting the tools to get us there.



**and I'm just talking about right now, this week, at this moment---no way am I going to a grocery store because I have needs, too!

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#158 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 09:35 PM
 
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I just read this entire thread.

Now I'm going to go eat some cheese. Which I will share with my daughter if she likes.

Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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#159 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 10:09 PM
 
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I just read this entire thread.

Now I'm going to go eat some cheese. Which I will share with my daughter if she likes.


Georgia....a trip to the grocery store by myself feels like a vacation! More power to you for figuring out how to do it.
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#160 of 175 Old 12-19-2006, 11:05 PM
 
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It's just around now where all of mine are totally happy at home w/their daddy while I run to the grocery store ! Sometimes, I even will read a magazine t's really weird how naked I feel without my sling on--no one on my hip--or anyone to explain to the cashier the multitude of stains on my shirt And I eat all the cheese and trashy cookies I want

Ahem. Excuse me. Back on topic

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#161 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 12:00 AM
 
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Georgia....a trip to the grocery store by myself feels like a vacation! More power to you for figuring out how to do it.
Actually, I have "dates" (without children) with my IRL mothering friend AT the grocery store. It is better than a vacation or shopping alone.


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#162 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 01:15 AM
 
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When ds was younger our local grocery store had free childcare (only for kids between 3-7yrs, similar to IKEA). There was a glass room in one part of the store. A tv screen suspended over each aisle played video from camera's in the playroom. So you could shop and watch your child playing.

Now that was heaven. Ds loved going in there to once a week.

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#163 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 01:18 AM
 
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Oh, that is such a fabulous idea I tend to run into the same mamas at our co-op---and then we end up staying a half hour longer in the store than I intended chatting in the produce aisle---I might was well make it official actually plan it w/them!

I'm really new to this whole going-out-without-little-ones thing. Never thought I'd get to this strange new place. Might as well hang out

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#164 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, that thing I said about it being disempowering to acknowledge someone's sadness/anger about something and then tell them they have to do it anyway - that was stupid. I think what I meant was more along the lines of, acknowledging someone's sadness/anger about something and then *making* them do it. But still, the thing that is disempowering about it is the "making them do it" part, not the "acknowledging their feelings" part. So, never mind. Sometimes I type first and think later.

Yooper - I never wanted to imply that your opinion doesn't count or you're "not a real mother". I was mother to one child for almost 3 years and it sure felt like mothering to me. All I meant was that it's harder, logistically, to coordinate multiple kids. It's probably harder to get 6 kids on the same page than 2 kids - it doesn't mean I'm less of a mother than the 6 kids lady.

Last thing - about the cheese. The reason I didn't ask the deli worker for another piece of cheese is because I felt like that would have seemed greedy. It really was a very big piece she gave DS - maybe she intended it to be for both kids, I don't know, she didn't say so. I'm not saying that was a great reason, but it is the reason nonetheless. Then, when DS didn't want to share with DD, *that* became the issue I was focused on, not the issue of DD having cheese or not. It was more important that DS share with his sister than I get her more cheese. Again, not saying that's a great reason but that's what happened.

I do tend to focus on individual instances rather than the big picture. So I do get caught up in the mindset of not being able to let anything slide because if I let him keep the cheese now, he'll think he never has to share anything, ever again! I do not like the idea of forced sharing but sometimes I feel like if I *don't* "enforce" it, it won't be learned. I like modelling behavior, I agree with the principle but I do also think kids need to be actively guided. To me modelling is a passive tool, which there is a place for definitely, but kids also need direct instruction, at least my kids do.
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#165 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 02:00 AM
 
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The reason I didn't ask the deli worker for another piece of cheese is because I felt like that would have seemed greedy. It really was a very big piece she gave DS - maybe she intended it to be for both kids, I don't know, she didn't say so. I'm not saying that was a great reason, but it is the reason nonetheless.
I personally think that is a perfectly good reason not to ask for more cheese.
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#166 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 02:06 AM
 
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Around here direct instruction to share is a sure fire way to invoke absolutely no sharing at all LOL. They do much better if i voice things to them in other ways.... like "Oh hey Kyla, willow seems to really want a piece of your cheese" .... without a directive from me she is almost always happy to offer up the piece of cheese entirely on her own. I always attributed this to the fact that we dont really force sharing and its not forced at her preschool either. If one kid wants to play with a certain toy ALL day they are allowed to.... they quickly seem to learn that its nicer to share because it sucks to want to play with something and not be able to because someone isn't sharing.

Thats not to say that my girls ALWAYS share ... they have their days... but its usually because of other issues going on (hungry, tired, annoyed, etc)... not because they are selfish. I have just never made it to be an issue other than modelling it. Maybe its how its modeled? I always try to use vocalize things..... like if DD came up to me and asked me for something I had I would usually say "sure kyla, I would love to share a piece of my orange with you".

As for the cheese..... if she gave it to you directly i would have automatically just split it into 2 because I know that both of my girls would have wanted it... they love cheese. If she gave it directly to him I would have asked for another one. If she wanted it split she should have given it to you directly... her fault. AFter it was said and I done if DD didnt want to share I would have just offered DD another snack... i usually keep them in my purse when we shop anyway.
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#167 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 02:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I personally think that is a perfectly good reason not to ask for more cheese.
Thanks. I needed to hear that. The problem I have with it is that I feel like I attached more importance to potentially offending a stranger than I did to DS's feelings. I know sometimes that is warranted but I'm not sure it was in this case.
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#168 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 03:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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They do much better if i voice things to them in other ways.... like "Oh hey Kyla, willow seems to really want a piece of your cheese" ....
ITA with this and in fact that was the first thing I said to DS. His response was pretty much, "tough luck for her."
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#169 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 03:08 AM
 
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ITA with this and in fact that was the first thing I said to DS. His response was pretty much, "tough luck for her."
: well at least he is honest
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#170 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, he's not one for holding back.
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#171 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 12:24 PM
 
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I’ve read a bit of this thread but not all so sorry if this was already brought up.

Our solution to DC not wanting to share is that she shouldn’t use (or eat) the thing in front of anyone with whom she doesn’t want to share. In the case of the deli cheese I think I probably would have made DC share ~ probably exactly like you did and felt a little bad about it as well. If I wanted her to have the choice to share or not, I might have asked her to wrap it up for later and then gone to find something in the store that both kids could share.

But, what I most likely would have done is gotten the deli worker involved. As DC gets older it helps so much to let her see me clarify rules or intentions of others if I’ve become the middle man. I probably would have just asked the deli worker if she/he gave the cheese to just DC or for both to share. Most likely DC would be told that it was for both children or your other DC would have also been given a piece. I can't tell you how helpful this has been lately when I'm trying to enforce the rules or expectations of others with DC.

I also wanted to agree with the poster who said that another good choice might be to stay out of the situation if DC was actually sharing…even if it was a tiny piece. Maybe DC might have continued to give little pieces and it would have become a fun way to share. I must admit this is very difficult for me to do. (I don’t have two kids but I work at a coop nursery school and staying out of what I perceive to be an unfair solution is SO, so hard).

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#172 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 01:00 PM
 
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I like modelling behavior, I agree with the principle but I do also think kids need to be actively guided. To me modelling is a passive tool, which there is a place for definitely, but kids also need direct instruction, at least my kids do.
I agree that kids need more than modeling. I think modeling is a very important part of learning, but people also need guidance and instruction. I wouldn't argue that point. But, I don't think you can teach generosity by forcing it. I don't think children that have been routinely forced to share learn the value of sharing. It just makes for a lot of sibling resentment, ime.

I seems like some posters are suggesting that you either force your kids to share or you let them be selfish jerks. Which seems, to me, directly in opposition with the description of GD in the forum guidlines-- "Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems."
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#173 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 03:20 PM
 
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i read through about 10 initial responses, so maybe what i am going to say was covered later, but what was Maddie's reaction?

we have this situation occur often -- Ada (4.5) has a piece of cheese, and Max (2) wants it. i might say 'Max wants some too', or she might notice it herself, if he 'asks' her himself. then it is likely that Ada will give him a tiny bit. and he will be happy about it, and ask for more. and she will give him a tiny bit again. and again. and againg. and both are happy. she IS sharing. both are having fun. i think she is too young to know that sharing half and half is more 'fair', kwim?
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#174 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, that is a great suggestion and next time I will give them more of a chance to sort it out themselves. It's true, he *was* sharing, just not according to my standards. I didn't even think of that at the time.

Well, live and learn - thanks again everyone, for a great discussion.
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#175 of 175 Old 12-20-2006, 11:42 PM
 
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Yes, that is a great suggestion and next time I will give them more of a chance to sort it out themselves. It's true, he *was* sharing, just not according to my standards. I didn't even think of that at the time.

Well, live and learn - thanks again everyone, for a great discussion.
Thank you! I have learned a lot from this discussion
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