enlighten me - what's wrong with time outs? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-14-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alison_in_oh View Post
I hear you, and I think that your comparison here actually proves my point in a way. That is, according to the general theory of relativity, gravity can be approached as a force emanating from a massive body, or as an acceleration caused by a disturbance of spacetime. (Or, as my professor used to illustrate, for all we know we could be at the bottom of a giant bucket being swung in circles by the Great Earth Goddess!) Regardless of which framework we consider, the parachutist will still fall to the earth, but if we absolutely and totally believe in the Great Goddess's bucket, then the conventional view of gravity need not apply to us; our observations of phenomena are completely explained by an alternative theory.

Similarly, if we choose to take operant theory out of the picture of parenting, the child will still engage in the same behaviors upon which the operant definitions had been placed. But if we are not focusing on *behaviors*, we cannot apply the definitions about which behaviors are increasing or decreasing in frequency, so in that sense we *aren't* punishing or reinforcing no matter what a Skinnerian behaviorist would observe in the same situation.
What a great post.

But it kind of goes into "reality is changed by intention" (which might be true) and "reality is changed by the beliefs of the observer" (hmmm which might be true, too!)

Too heavy before coffee.
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Old 06-14-2007, 03:23 PM
 
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Someone above mentioned the idea that perhaps giving the ice cream after a meltdown would reinforce the consistency of a mother's love. I have to disagree with this one. I don't think gestures like this have anything to do with expressing love. It can make the child very happy and they can enjoy it but I don't think it would be a method of communicating love. I think our children get that message in much more powerful ways that have nothing to do with our buying them ice cream or toys or what have you.
I tend to agree with you (and also enjoyed the rest of your post). But I just wanted to mention that after I read The Five Love Languages I realized that people have different ways of both giving love and receiving love... for some, a tangible token says, "They love me!" more than words or hugs. Or an act of service means love to some people. Or a sacrifice (I forget the different ways the author states that love can be recognized... it wasn't THAT great of a book but it did make me think).

My DH is constantly bringing me treats. He feels very loving towards me when he does this. However, I feel more loved when he says, "Me and DD are going to go for a long walk so you can take a hot bath and read your book." My nephew loves it when I send him some small token that he can hold and hug and be reminded that he's loved... when I tell him "I love you" over the phone he gets embarrassed and uncomfortable.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie View Post
I tend to agree with you (and also enjoyed the rest of your post). But I just wanted to mention that after I read The Five Love Languages I realized that people have different ways of both giving love and receiving love... for some, a tangible token says, "They love me!" more than words or hugs. Or an act of service means love to some people. Or a sacrifice (I forget the different ways the author states that love can be recognized... it wasn't THAT great of a book but it did make me think).

My DH is constantly bringing me treats. He feels very loving towards me when he does this. However, I feel more loved when he says, "Me and DD are going to go for a long walk so you can take a hot bath and read your book." My nephew loves it when I send him some small token that he can hold and hug and be reminded that he's loved... when I tell him "I love you" over the phone he gets embarrassed and uncomfortable.
This book changed my life in high school. I not only realized that my mother DOES love me, I learned so much about how to effectively communicate love to others. It has been invaluable in my marriage.

My ds is only 3 months old, but I thought I'd share my experiences as a child.

My parents practiced something I can only define as a severely modified TO. The term TO was never used. There were 6 of us born within 5 and a half years, so a lot of rough play and disputes went on each day. Whenever any child was "out of control" (hitting, biting, grabbing, pushing etc.) and could not be redirected or talked to because of a melt down, we were gently asked to pick a quiet spot to "get a happy mood." We would then stomp off crying or screaming leading our mother to our chosen spot. My favorite spot was by the reading corner. My mother would then take a book and place me on her lap and read. I was extemely social, and can remember trying to calm down quickly so I could 1. Explain why I felt the situation was injust, and 2. Get back to playing. My mother would then listen to my side of the story talk to me about what I needed to try to do differently next time, kiss me and tell me she loved me and bring me back to the group.

I believe this taught us that sometimes you need to separate yourself from the community to calm down, and sometimes you need to get a snuggle or a hug to calm down. It was our choice how we calmed down, but we were given the tools to do so effectively.

Just my two cents on the matter.:

I am not crunchy enough for this forum. Everyday I get a little crunchier though! :
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:42 PM
 
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Before I had a child, and had only my Child Development academic background to rely on, I naively thought that the above is what ALL timeouts were :-)

I think that this is teaching an important life skill. You had great parents :-)

Perdita - newly SAHM to DD July/05 & DS Feb/10 joy.gif
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma View Post
My parents practiced something I can only define as a severely modified TO. The term TO was never used. There were 6 of us born within 5 and a half years, so a lot of rough play and disputes went on each day. Whenever any child was "out of control" (hitting, biting, grabbing, pushing etc.) and could not be redirected or talked to because of a melt down, we were gently asked to pick a quiet spot to "get a happy mood." We would then stomp off crying or screaming leading our mother to our chosen spot. My favorite spot was by the reading corner. My mother would then take a book and place me on her lap and read. I was extemely social, and can remember trying to calm down quickly so I could 1. Explain why I felt the situation was injust, and 2. Get back to playing. My mother would then listen to my side of the story talk to me about what I needed to try to do differently next time, kiss me and tell me she loved me and bring me back to the group.

I believe this taught us that sometimes you need to separate yourself from the community to calm down, and sometimes you need to get a snuggle or a hug to calm down. It was our choice how we calmed down, but we were given the tools to do so effectively.

Just my two cents on the matter.:
I love this! I'm going to do this instead of the chair that we use now. I don't like the feeling of banishing him to the chair which is what we have done before. We then decided to bring the chair out into the kitchen or living room so that he could be with us while he sat (we haven't done a TO in weeks so this never actually came about), but I think letting him find a quiet spot is awesome!!

God I love this forum...so helpful!
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