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#61 of 105 Old 06-11-2007, 04:23 PM
 
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What I dont get is; if a technique that she is proposing is THAT distressing for the family, I really don't know why she doesn't come up with something else... surely she doesnt believe her way is the "only" way. Is that the only thing in her toolbox???????? If so then I'm sorry but that isn't much of an "expert" IMO. Sorry to any SN fans. Like I've said on at least one other thread, while I dont feel like I have much real advice to offer anyone the one thing I **firmly* believe in is being comfortable with the approach you are using, not least because that enables you to be consistent about it.
I have seen SuperNanny, Nanny 911 and 1 another show like it. (Don`t remember the name of it.) And what strikes me, is that they use the same. technique. every. single. time.
It`s like they think naughtycorner/timeout and rewardsystems are the only thing a parent will ever need to discipline their child.


Not very impressive...

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#62 of 105 Old 06-11-2007, 04:35 PM
 
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I've only watched the show a handful of times but I've watched, heard, seen, read enough about it that I know I don't care for it. Things I've observed on Supernanny:

Supernanny comes into a household out of control, many times dealing with people I consider to be bottom-of-the-barrel parents. The parents are so caught up in themselves, their careers, money, etc, that they've completely forgotten about their children, and consequently the children are running all over the place like wild animals and acting out because no one respects them or cares enough about them to play with them or talk to them.

Parents are "exhausted" although from what I'm not sure because they don't seem to be doing much "parenting", that's why Supernanny is there, right? I saw one episode where the parents were locking their screaming children into their bedrooms at night and not even reading them stories or comforting them. Supernanny says they need to stop this. Okay, that's one good thing she did for the kids. But this gets back to my observation of sub-par parents on the show. These people don't have enough common sense to treat their own offspring with respect and dignity. How can Supernanny be expected to teach about AP when these parents are already so far gone? AP and GD would fly right over their heads. Sad but true I think....

When Supernanny forces babies to wean from breast or bottle, takes away comfort objects, and etc...I'm almost thinking that she thinks getting the children detached from EVERYTHING will make everyone's lives easier- the parents will be "relieved" and can "get a break" because their children won't want to have anything to do with them or ask them for anything, and the children will have been taught to fend for themselves and stop trusting and relying on the parents. But then they will be "good" children. I'll stop now, I feel a lump in my throat :Puke

If Supernanny stops people from hitting their kids, screaming at them, and locking them into their bedrooms, then that's a great thing. But I wouldn't expect any more out of this show or shows like it. I'm telling you, these parents just WON'T GET IT.
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#63 of 105 Old 06-11-2007, 04:56 PM
 
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i have not watched alot of this, but what stuck out to me is the parenting styles. these parents need help! i do not think that the majority of parents on the show are looking to become better/more loving/respectful -they are looking to control their children.

the real sad thing IMO is that there are enough children being raised poorly (again IMO) to keep SuperNanny, Nanny 911 etc. running with stories.

a Quote, that my mama brain will not let me remember:
Children act as they are treated.
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#64 of 105 Old 06-12-2007, 12:34 AM
 
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I'm a reality show junkie, so I've seen this one a few times. What always crosses my mind when I see the parents and children interacting is what was it like for them when these children were infants? I'm sure they were nestling them under their chins, hugging them, kissing them, rocking them...I hope, anyway. I just can't understand how far south things seem to go.

But you know, I think the challenges of parenting really creep up on people and they haven't a clue what to do. They have no idea about child development and are probably repeating familial patterns.

I wish she'd talk more about developmental appropriateness, but that's not what the show is about. It does seem very repetitive...same issues, different players.

I agree with a pp that GD and AP would probably not jive with most of these families.

I've never seen the supernanny take away bottles or discourage breastfeeding. That sucks. I have seen the 911 shows where they do potty training in a day or take away binkies suddenly. That has always been very sad to me.

Anyway, I watch it because of unrelenting fascination with people and how they live. But, I agree, that most of her techniques aren't in line with my philosophy of parenting. But they are probably a big step in the right directino for a lot of these parents who are using physical force with their children.
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#65 of 105 Old 06-13-2007, 04:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dianamerrell View Post
a Quote, that my mama brain will not let me remember:
Children act as they are treated.
I like the quote, but i find it only partially true. For example I know two brothers (now in their 30s) who were treated horribly by their father when they were young. The older son reacted by being very obedient, successful, etc. as a way to compensate for the terrible things he was told he was, and the younger one turned out to act much more like the dad. I believe they are both equally damaged, but only one acts as he was treated. Sad, really, for both of them.
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#66 of 105 Old 06-13-2007, 05:03 PM
 
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IBut you know, I think the challenges of parenting really creep up on people and they haven't a clue what to do. They have no idea about child development and are probably repeating familial patterns.
I agree and I attribute a large part of this problem to the relative isolation in which many people have to parent now. They have no clue, no real guidance from the village and from their more experienced family members and extended family. It may not take a village, but it sure helps.
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#67 of 105 Old 06-13-2007, 05:57 PM
 
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Was it supernanny or nanny 911 where she put down the mom for nursing the toddler? I didn't actually see it though- just the promos which were edited to be way controversial.
ugghh!! That was Super nanny!

The trailer for the show was showing the mom nursing the toddler, and the narrator says" Someone get that baby a bottle!" :Puke


I like Super Nanny...I don;t agree with a lot of what she says but I think she does have a lot of good insight. I always learn things watching it...it is interesting to see what it looks like when a parent is yelling etc
I will be like "OMG do I sound like that??!!" sometimes!

I would agree with her 100% if she would be more attachment based and quit saying Naughty so much!! You just have to take the good and leave the bad with this show IMO.
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#68 of 105 Old 06-15-2007, 10:55 PM
 
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How is letting a kid cry and get worked up going to result in sleep? ...
It physically exhausts them and makes them sleepy for one and/or two, they eventually give up and go to sleep anyway because there's nothing else for them to do.
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#69 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 02:02 PM
 
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It physically exhausts them and makes them sleepy for one and/or two, they eventually give up and go to sleep anyway because there's nothing else for them to do.
My mom let me co-sleep until I was about 4 years old, and then allowed me to cry in my bed until I went to sleep with little or no comfort. I still have darkness issues from that till this very day.

I could not disagree with allowing a child to cry himself to sleep more. It hurts them psychologically (no matter how young or old the child is) much more than simply tiring them out and making them to go sleep.
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#70 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 03:18 PM
 
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My mom let me co-sleep until I was about 4 years old, and then allowed me to cry in my bed until I went to sleep with little or no comfort. I still have darkness issues from that till this very day.

I could not disagree with allowing a child to cry himself to sleep more. It hurts them psychologically (no matter how young or old the child is) much more than simply tiring them out and making them to go sleep.

My kids all still co-sleep (well, except the teenager!), but we do gently night-wean them around 3 years old, which involves some crying in our loving arms...

There are different schools of thought around sleep, crying, etc. but IMO a loving presence from a parent is the key.

Here's an interesting GD article about sleep, and release of tensions through crying, etc. http://www.handinhandparenting.org/c...000/000029.htm obviously I don't agree with it all (as I said, my kids still co-sleep, and my 2.5 year old still nurses through the night) but it's an interesting perspective nonetheless, and may help bridge the gap here a little.
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#71 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 04:50 PM
 
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However, it pains me to see her eroding attachment relationships between parents and children. She makes children put themselves to bed, give up nursing, give up suckies and attachment rituals with parents. This IMO is horrible, and her downfall. Attachment relationships are the glue in families IMO, they provide a context for the boundary setting she does and help children feel loved, included, and part of a circle of people who love each other.

I agree with this totally. I think we need to redefine success in our society. (Myself included) Why should it always have to be "a child that can seperate." Why is this so crazy important? I think alot of people are mistaken that we have to "teach" our kids to seperate. I think "They'll figure it out." From watching well adjusted adults behave. My 12 mo old taught herself to use a fork all by herself. I never told her how to do it, or decided at what age she should-she just did.

Jenny

PS-I like Supernannys view on togetherness and time as a unit though-that is HUGE is creating "better behavior."
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#72 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 05:24 PM
 
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The few episodes I've seen I really like. I think most of what she says is common sense... there was one family that was riling the kids up before bed with a bug hunt, and another that didn't direct her kids with an activity while she did physical therapy with her oldest... Her bedtime methods of sitting in the room completely silent in the dark and putting kids back to bed each time they woke up made sense to me too as it gets the job done without abandonment and without adding extra unnecessary stimulation late at night. I think it's true that the shows are same story different family, but it's nice to get the basic lessons of having a routine, a set of rules or guidelines for the family to follow, and outlined consequences for breaking the rules, even if you don't agree with time outs yourself.
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#73 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What reasons does SN give for stopping the attachment rituals???? I don't know I just don't see how they can impact so negatively on the kids behaviour..... unless it is that the parenting style is not suiting the parents and elaving them "exhausted", and a less attached style enables the adults to be better parents.....???? Don't know, just thinking aloud here.....
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#74 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 08:03 PM
 
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There is a huge expectation that, "YOU are the parent and YOU are in charge," from SN.

So when children are doing things "on demand," I'm quite sure she sees that as the KID is in charge.

And for things like bedtime, nursing, etc. she uses the same old tired reasons: "They've got to learn sometime." "They need to be independent." "They're old enough now." "This is more about fulfilling the mother's needs..."
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#75 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 08:09 PM
 
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Her bedtime methods of sitting in the room completely silent in the dark and putting kids back to bed each time they woke up made sense to me too as it gets the job done without abandonment and without adding extra unnecessary stimulation late at night.
Except that those children are sobbing and trying to claw their way to the mother, while she neither speaks to them nor looks at them. If you don't think they feel abandoned I'm curious as to what you do think they're feeling?
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#76 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I get it now. If the parents have a specific problem with the child that is unrelated to the attachment rituals - for example, the child isn't listening to the parents or is being violent to a sibling or what have you.....then I just don't see what that has to do with comfort items or long bedtimes... In that case I have to say I think SN is WAY off insisting on those changes, not just because of the effect it has on the kids but because she is (IMO) overstepping the mark in how much she tells the parents how to raise their kids.
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#77 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 09:12 PM
 
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Except that those children are sobbing and trying to claw their way to the mother, while she neither speaks to them nor looks at them. If you don't think they feel abandoned I'm curious as to what you do think they're feeling?
I think they don't see their mother as a sympathetic ear, but they know she's right there, they can see her, she hasn't left the house or them. It would be worse if she talked and interacted, I think, just as you aren't supposed to talk and engage a baby that wakes to nurse.

If I have one complaint about the show, it's that everything is done in a way too short space of time, so the transitions are rougher than they might be... I don't know, I think it depends on the kid whether slowly weaning off the breast or slowly transitioning a new nighttime ritual is better than a more immediate change, but you don't get to see that option. I think it would be nice to show how parents can implement the tools without doing a sudden intervention.
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#78 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 09:45 PM
 
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I think they don't see their mother as a sympathetic ear, but they know she's right there, they can see her, she hasn't left the house or them. It would be worse if she talked and interacted, I think, just as you aren't supposed to talk and engage a baby that wakes to nurse.
Actually, in one of the more recent CIO episodes she had a baby CIO alone in a room with cameras videotaping her. It was horrific. The child was standing up reaching through the bars wailing for the mother. And eventually fell asleep that way. The family and SN all stood outside in the hallway. I'm pretty sure that baby felt abandoned. And I'm fairly certain that many other babies across the country suffered that same fate as a direct result of this show.

I can't fathom why it would be worse for a mother to be whispering assurances and sweet things to a child trying to go to sleep instead of not making eye contact, repeatedly *dragging* them back to the bed, or answering their begging calls in ANY way. It seems cruel and barbaric.
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#79 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 09:59 PM
 
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I personally do not have a problem with SN. A lot of what she does is common sense which several of the families on the show seem to be lacking. My thing is that you have to find what works for your FAMILY. If something is "working" for the kids but not the parents, then something ELSE needs to be found. It's a balance. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
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#80 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 10:41 PM
 
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Actually, in one of the more recent CIO episodes she had a baby CIO alone in a room with cameras videotaping her. It was horrific. The child was standing up reaching through the bars wailing for the mother. And eventually fell asleep that way. The family and SN all stood outside in the hallway. I'm pretty sure that baby felt abandoned. And I'm fairly certain that many other babies across the country suffered that same fate as a direct result of this show.

I can't fathom why it would be worse for a mother to be whispering assurances and sweet things to a child trying to go to sleep instead of not making eye contact, repeatedly *dragging* them back to the bed, or answering their begging calls in ANY way. It seems cruel and barbaric.
Well that's very different from the episodes I've watched where they are being put back to bed repeatedly by mom until they go to sleep. From what I've seen it's not the frantic screaming of a baby that doesn't know that it's mother exists when he cannot see her, it's the frustrated cries of an over tired child that doesn't want to go to bed and is dealing with a big change in what's expected from bedtime. I would agree that infants wouldn't benefit from CIO but I'm fine with the techniques I've seen for bedtime.
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#81 of 105 Old 06-16-2007, 10:46 PM
 
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From what I've seen it's not the frantic screaming of a baby that doesn't know that it's mother exists when he cannot see her, it's the frustrated cries of an over tired child that doesn't want to go to bed and is dealing with a big change in what's expected from bedtime. I would agree that infants wouldn't benefit from CIO but I'm fine with the techniques I've seen for bedtime.
I'm not clear on how CIO for toddlers or older children meshes with attachment parenting.

Shutting down communication (verbally and physically--aside from hualing the child to bed) seems like the antithesis of meeting emotional needs. When a child is calling out, "Mamamamammamamamamma...." and sobbing and the mother won't look at the kid? How is that in line with AP?
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#82 of 105 Old 06-18-2007, 07:10 PM
 
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I personally do not have a problem with SN. A lot of what she does is common sense which several of the families on the show seem to be lacking. My thing is that you have to find what works for your FAMILY. If something is "working" for the kids but not the parents, then something ELSE needs to be found. It's a balance. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
:

BTW..great name

I also agree with BumperBee...The kids are usually overtired and stubborn with the change of rules. I don't see anything wrong with it either.
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#83 of 105 Old 06-21-2007, 07:21 PM
 
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Everyone has a different parenting philosophy that works for their family and may not work for someone else, which is something everyone can agree on!

Anyway, I have seen the show and I acually like it. I did see the episode where she had the mother wean her daughter because it was "disrupting the normal functions of the home" or something like that. I didn't agree with that part, but I did agree with weaning the child from the bottle (my own reasons there that I'd be happy to share, but that's for a different thread!) She does good and bad, but I think most of what she does is very constructive. In homes as chaotic as the ones she visits some of the family members are bound to be upset. She is very big on explaining WHY some actions are inappopriate rather than taking the "because I said so" approach that too many parents take these days. And when she is able to give the parents tools for bonding with their children rather than arguing, I think everyone ends up being a little better off.
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#84 of 105 Old 06-23-2007, 01:35 AM
 
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Ummm.... "naughty" spot?

A child does not need to be told they're naughty or bad.

-Angela
I haven't read all the responses, but wanted to say that ITA about the naughty spot. Also, I think the naughty spot is a cop-out for times when you should be working things through with your child. JMHO. Ask me again when my challenging DD2 is older But in my experience, there's never been anything I couldn't work through WITH my girls.

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#85 of 105 Old 06-23-2007, 01:45 AM
 
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I haven't read all the responses, but wanted to say that ITA about the naughty spot. Also, I think the naughty spot is a cop-out for times when you should be working things through with your child. JMHO. Ask me again when my challenging DD2 is older But in my experience, there's never been anything I couldn't work through WITH my girls.
I think the "naughty spot" is one thing that she does that really bugs me. It's usually done in a very punitive way and seems to be a matter of breaking the child down until they realize it's totally futile to fight it and give in to sit for however long. Having said that, we have used time-outs on occassion for particularly troubling behavior (hitting) and it has worked in a short amount of time and it's over. Time out is not used as a threat and it's hardly even referred to or used in our home. It is reserved for a major offense where safety becomes an issue.

I watched a recent show and she really focused on bonding and connecting with the kids and I think that is great. I really think she probably does more to help than hurt these families. The one I saw last actually helped me with an idea...she had the mother put together a collage with a picture of her son and loving words all around it...she was to go there and look at that when she is so focused on the behavior and not the child...so that she can tap into the love for him and operate from that place. I loved that idea! I am going to put a collage together of pictures of my boy and have that to look at when his behavior is driving me nuts...I think just that reframe alone helps to view the situation from a more loving place.
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#86 of 105 Old 06-23-2007, 02:47 AM
 
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I think the "naughty spot" is one thing that she does that really bugs me. It's usually done in a very punitive way and seems to be a matter of breaking the child down until they realize it's totally futile to fight it and give in to sit for however long.
Yeah, this is more what I mean. One of the few shows that I watched (probably the last one, I was so bothered by it) involved a 4-ish y.o. boy (other kids too, but he was the one who got the naughty spot) who would run wild to get his mom's attention while she was cooking dinner, and SN showed the mom how to repeatedly put him in the naughty spot until he cried hysterically and finally stayed there. Um, he was DESPERATE for his mother's attention! There are a MILLION ways to keep him with you and involve him in what you're doing while you cook dinner. Ugh. Someone posted about how SN's answer to almost everything seems to be detachment, and while it may not be true for every issue (I will admit she does help most of the families, because they ARE so far gone), it bothers me so much I can't really see past it!

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#87 of 105 Old 07-01-2007, 03:38 AM
 
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Everyone has a different parenting philosophy that works for their family and may not work for someone else, which is something everyone can agree on! ...
Pffft....not around here I find....:
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#88 of 105 Old 07-01-2007, 03:58 PM
 
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While I enjoy watching SN, I tend to disagree with her methods, specifically time-outs and reward charts. I think there is definitely too much focus on behaviorism. It shouldn't be about making the child do what you want them to do, but about meeting their needs so they will want to behave in a socially appropriate manner. I think that often SN forgets about meeting the children's needs. Specifically there was this one episode where the family had four girls. The oldest was diabled and required a lot of attention, including mom doing therapy with her four times a day. During that time the youngest two (4yo and 6yo I think) were expected to play alone and not bother them at all. To me this was not a developmentally appropriate expectation and the children were clearly acting out as a means of getting attention. Even the second oldest daughter was exhibiting rebellious teenager behavior to get attention. Basically the house revolved around the daughter with the disabilty and never once was it suggested that the other children might need more time and attention. It really upset me. She actually did help the rebellious daughter form a closer relationship with her father, but the younger two were just given Time-out if they interuppted the mother during therapy sessions. SN never tried to find a way for the children to be involved or to get mom some extra help so that she wasn't always doing therapy and ignoring the other children.

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#89 of 105 Old 07-01-2007, 04:19 PM
 
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I've seen this show and every in episode I've personally seen, the problem is not the fault of the kids. The kids might be acting out, but the original problem is:

1. Kids very closely spaced together, and often multiples or a child with a disability, so kids are having trouble getting enough attention each
2. One of the parents isn't giving enough support
3. Both parents working without adequate thought as to how to make sure kids' needs are met
4. Parents having unrealistic expectations - such as that kids will go to bed and stay in bed at 7:30 or something

So, rather than taking care of the underlying problem (which seems to be often getting more support in - having a grandparent there every day for a few hours, hiring a mother's helper and/or housecleaner, etc.) they try to train the kids to tolerate a bad situation.
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#90 of 105 Old 07-01-2007, 04:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
I've seen this show and every in episode I've personally seen, the problem is not the fault of the kids. The kids might be acting out, but the original problem is:

1. Kids very closely spaced together, and often multiples or a child with a disability, so kids are having trouble getting enough attention each
2. One of the parents isn't giving enough support
3. Both parents working without adequate thought as to how to make sure kids' needs are met
4. Parents having unrealistic expectations - such as that kids will go to bed and stay in bed at 7:30 or something

So, rather than taking care of the underlying problem (which seems to be often getting more support in - having a grandparent there every day for a few hours, hiring a mother's helper and/or housecleaner, etc.) they try to train the kids to tolerate a bad situation.

yes this was exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it much better.

Jennifer, mama to darling dancing Juliette, and sweet baby Jameson
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