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#91 of 105 Old 07-01-2007, 11:04 PM
 
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Personally, I think SuperNanny and Nanny911 are great. Why? Because they may be the first steps MANY parents take toward a more gentle approach in parenting.

I know that's how I came about looking into gentle parenting. The Nannies comfirmed what I had felt from the beginning. Spanking is not necessary. I used some of their approaches, and when some of them didn't work, I looked for other approaches.. and found GP.

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#92 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 09:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by McMandy View Post
Personally, I think SuperNanny and Nanny911 are great. Why? Because they may be the first steps MANY parents take toward a more gentle approach in parenting.

I know that's how I came about looking into gentle parenting. The Nannies comfirmed what I had felt from the beginning. Spanking is not necessary. I used some of their approaches, and when some of them didn't work, I looked for other approaches.. and found GP.
Yes, I think it probably gets people thinking about their parenting, which is a good thing. Everyone is moving through this journey in varying ways and I'm sure these shows are very helpful to a lot of people. Obviously they are also designed for ratings and what not, but I think folks who spank and yell probably glean a lot of good information from it.
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#93 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 10:15 PM
 
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I think AislinCarys sums up the situations they show pretty well. The kids and families are mostly in too much disaray and they need to be calmed to the point where the idea of AP and gentle discpline can actually be "heard" by both the kids and the adults. Time-out doesn't need to be the end all be all solution but it is most likely needed as a starting point so that things can come under control.

Also, no one seems to remember that the families that are shown are never saying "oh we love the 3 hour bedtime drama rituals and the sleepless nights we have with the kids in our bed" The parents are asking for these things to stop. If the parents do not want to co-sleep anymore than really how much benefit is there?

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#94 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 10:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dianamerrell View Post

a Quote, that my mama brain will not let me remember:
Children act as they are treated.
I think you're thinking of "Children Learn What They Live," which is the title of a poem my Mom had on a poster hanging on the back of a door in my house growing up. Here's the full text - http://www.empowermentresources.com/...g_version.html

Betsy, mama to beautiful, strong MZ twins Lillian and Kate, born 11 weeks early on January 10, 2006.
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#95 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 10:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m9m9m9 View Post
Also, no one seems to remember that the families that are shown are never saying "oh we love the 3 hour bedtime drama rituals and the sleepless nights we have with the kids in our bed" The parents are asking for these things to stop. If the parents do not want to co-sleep anymore than really how much benefit is there?
No, on Nanny 911 and Supernanny there have been a number of mothers who were not interested in disolving the family bed. And they were shamed and threatened by the nannnies. :
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#96 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 10:43 PM
 
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LOL at this post! Welcome to MDC.

I don't hate Supernanny, at least not most of her. I think she sets really good respectful boundaries with some seriously out of control children.

However, it pains me to see her eroding attachment relationships between parents and children. She makes children put themselves to bed, give up nursing, give up suckies and attachment rituals with parents. This IMO is horrible, and her downfall. Attachment relationships are the glue in families IMO, they provide a context for the boundary setting she does and help children feel loved, included, and part of a circle of people who love each other.
I agree with this. I definitely respect her ability to teach parents to help guide their children in a loving way....but I also dislike her erosion of AP.

Is there a middle ground for this, though?
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#97 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 11:03 PM
 
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I agree with this. I definitely respect her ability to teach parents to help guide their children in a loving way....but I also dislike her erosion of AP.

Is there a middle ground for this, though?
Well, I definitely think guiding children and setting boundaries is AP.

I think the problem arises for Supernanny, however, b/c she seems to have a basic "mistrust" of children's motives and behavior. She's not interested in discovering underlying needs by and large. So that ranges from the breastfeeding, co-sleeping infant to the lashing out 10 yr. old. Because she is focused on the behavior, that's the part she's setting out solutions for. It's almost always about curbing behavior, and rarely about finding out what is driving it or giving the child the benefit of the doubt. She doesn't trust that the child is doing the best they can or acting out some other issue.

So she might be "gentle" in that she promotes alternatives to hitting, the emotional responsiveness part of AP is hugely lacking. And honestly, given the choice betw. an unresponsive parent physically putting a child on a naughty spot over and over for hours on end, and a parent who spanks in a truly, "This is hurting me more than it hurts you," way.....I don't know....I think the former is actually worse. :
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#98 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 11:20 PM
 
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I've seen this show and every in episode I've personally seen, the problem is not the fault of the kids. The kids might be acting out, but the original problem is:

1. Kids very closely spaced together, and often multiples or a child with a disability, so kids are having trouble getting enough attention each
2. One of the parents isn't giving enough support
3. Both parents working without adequate thought as to how to make sure kids' needs are met
4. Parents having unrealistic expectations - such as that kids will go to bed and stay in bed at 7:30 or something

So, rather than taking care of the underlying problem (which seems to be often getting more support in - having a grandparent there every day for a few hours, hiring a mother's helper and/or housecleaner, etc.) they try to train the kids to tolerate a bad situation.
So true. And they even mention it at the beginning of the shows, like "Their dad died last month and mom is now a single mom of 5 kids." - I think something like that was on the last episode of SN - but instead of getting counseling for them or mother's helper, she sticks the kids in the naughty spot! It doesn't address the problem at all!

Single mom of 2 boys
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#99 of 105 Old 07-02-2007, 11:20 PM
 
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I dislike Suppernanny for all the reasons listed. But also because, before I had my son, I was a (live-out) nanny for about ten years for several different families. And let me tell you, I did a COMPLETE turnaround in my childrearing philosophy after I had my son.

As a nanny, I felt strongly that children should do as they were told just because they were told to. It's not that I wasn't loving/caring/silly with them; I just really felt that I was in charge and if I said go to sleep, they needed to go to sleep. I got this from my parents, sadly.

Now...I am so incredibly connected with my son that I try to see things from his point of view. I have more realistic expectations for him. I'm much better at finding ways for him to "help" me so I can get things done around the house but still have him feel included (I never really had this issue as a nanny). I'm just more patient and loving...even though I would have said I was patient and loving before.

You really can't understand what having a child is like until you have your own. So I bristle a bit at Supernanny acting as though she knows it all when she has no children of her own.

Formerly New Mama to Henry, born August 2005 and Silas, born November 2010.
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#100 of 105 Old 07-03-2007, 09:31 AM
 
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No, on Nanny 911 and Supernanny there have been a number of mothers who were not interested in disolving the family bed. And they were shamed and threatened by the nannnies. :
Co-sleeping is a very nice arrangement if it benefits the parents and the child but that is not what the situation is on these shows.

I have watched many episodes where the mom is complaining about "co-sleeping." Also, many of the families are not really co-sleeping per se. The parents are just lying down with the kids in thier kid's beds and rooms(and are uncomfortable) bc they have to and have no other methods for getting them to sleep its not a case of the parents really wanting to co- sleep.

I have seen many express sadness that "co-sleeping" is ending but I think that is probably a natural reaction. Just becuase one is sad that a phase is ending does not mean they do not want it to end or need it to end.

The families never seem to be saying at the end of the show that they have terrible regrets over it and are unhappy with the established bedtime routines. And in fact, they can all go back to their previous arrangement at the end of the week if they want after the show has done filming. Why is it so hard to understand that the family bed may need to be disolved in some situations? It just doesn't work for everyone.


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#101 of 105 Old 07-03-2007, 09:53 AM
 
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Why is it so hard to understand that the family bed may need to be disolved in some situations? It just doesn't work for everyone.
It's not hard for me to understand at all.

I was reacting to your statement that all the families express dissatisfaction with co-sleeping or their nighttime parenting arrangement. And that's just not so. There have been several families who wanted to continue their sleeping arrangements and they were told horror stories about the mother having emotional issues, the child taking over the role of the father, the children never learning to go to sleep by themselves and that if they wanted the nanny's help they must submit to her entire program of change.

And even in the cases where the families were dissatisfied with the sleeping/bedtime scenarios, to implement a plan where almost EVERY single time a mother/child pair is sobbing and/or begging for it to stop? Sorry, that's not "disolving" the family bed, that's smashing it into a million pieces in one fell swoop.

I am 100% certain that there is a better, less traumatic, more attachment-building way to move a child out of the family bed.

But, again, these nannies are not focusing on these children's needs. As long as the behavior stops, then it's a "success." I think that's a pretty dangerous message to put out there. And I think it's weird that people are defending it here.
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#102 of 105 Old 07-03-2007, 10:12 AM
 
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actually i watched a fantastic episode of supernanny recently. the son was on the autism spectrum and she got an expert in her managed to get the little boy talking for the first time. she berated the mother for ignoring the children and not playing with them and not being nice enough to them. all she did was get the parents to talk to their children more and play with them more and be nicer to them. no sticker charts or naughty step or time outs, just hey you - be nicer to you kids.
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#103 of 105 Old 07-04-2007, 11:20 AM
 
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But why does everyone seem to hate supernanny on this board???? I know next to nothing about this woman except shes known for making the naughty spot famous!

Is there's a PM facility? If so I would appreciate being sent any responses privately because I get the impression this might be a HOT topic and I don't want to be thought to be stirring the pot. Thanks, and sorry if this is a forbidden topic!
I didn't like a few episodes where she discouraged the family bed and talked a mom into early weaning but overall I like her. I do time outs for my kids and will tell them when their behaviour is "naughty" or bad. I do it in german, hehe, might sound cruel to some of you. I like her!
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#104 of 105 Old 07-04-2007, 12:07 PM
 
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I do time outs for my kids and will tell them when their behaviour is "naughty" or bad. I do it in german, hehe, might sound cruel to some of you. I like her!
Have you all read Alfie Kohn's article about SuperNanny?

Very interesting.

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/supernanny.htm
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#105 of 105 Old 07-04-2007, 04:52 PM
 
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Have you all read Alfie Kohn's article about SuperNanny?

Very interesting.

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/supernanny.htm
Thank you for the link! It is very interesting.

I'm a big believer in Kohn's principals, although I have yet to see them play out in my family. (DD is 14 months) I have read two of his books and research seems sound. I am curious to see how it works with our DD.

I know I am against formal time outs for many reasons....
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