"Quirky Discipline Rules That Work" article on CNN.com - Wow - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 12:00 AM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavis337 View Post
Why the "dont' throw a fit" rule? Because I don't want to wait 30 minutes for my kids to decided if they want grape or orange juice. Because I CAN'T always give them what they want (ooops, we're OUT of orange juice, I guess it's water or grape) and I don't believe it's necessary to do more than validate a few minutes of feeling sad over the juice. Save the big stuff for the truly big stuff.

Why "no after 8pm" rule? Because MOM deserves her own space. We talk all the time about how kids need and deserve their space, time and emotions. SO DOES MOM. If Dad is home, why can't Dad do a bit of it so Mom can take a few deep breaths? Sure, if The Kid can't be calmed or really truly NEEDS Mom, Mom will be there. But don't let the evening disappear, or drag on into the wee hours of the morning just because Mom is expected to do it all. I see this more as a family concept than a rule for the kids.

But for a kid the juice IS the big stuff. Empathizing and still enforcing rules is different than just shucking them off with a rhyme.

And once again, sure, Mom needs space and time to her own emotions ~~ but that's for those of you lucky enough to have someone to step in and take over. I think that throwing that rule out there for all families is pretty elitist.
Aura_Kitten is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#62 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 12:10 AM
 
monkey's mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
Empathizing and still enforcing rules is different than just shucking them off with a rhyme.
Yes. Totally different.

Also, there's a really good article in the sticky called, "A Cry for Connection," about understanding tantrums. I don't think kids are having "fits" b/c they want to or b/c they're trying to ruin anyone's day. From the GD forum sticky:

Quote:
Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.
I can't reconcile the above with telling upset children that rhyme.
monkey's mom is offline  
#63 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 12:36 AM
 
swampangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Personally, the author's tone and language didn't resonate with me but I do understand the need for mom to have boundaries. I had never thought about the working together rule but I like Mamaduck's variation on it with bringing something to do...not just being there trying to get my attention. I rarely am "working" while the kids are awake now because they are too young, but I think this might be handy down the line.

I think the whole conversation here about "you get what you get" obviously needs to be tailored to the individual child and what they need to learn at the time. Learning to roll with it is important and I think a lot of 4 year olds need to practice that skill...at least mine does! Struggling with so much disappointment all the time isn't helpful and doesn't feel good. I think there was another thread awhile back about validation and how it can go too far.

I often say to my 4yo ds, "If you don't like what I'm saying, you can ask me why and I'll be happy to talk to you about it. But please don't whine/scream/etc.". This opens up the dialogue if he really doesn't understand why he's not getting what he wants and it also gives him a chance to practice rolling with things.

I really don't see what is wrong with helping kids to move through these minor disappointments gracefully.
swampangel is offline  
#64 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 12:39 AM
 
swampangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
But for a kid the juice IS the big stuff. Empathizing and still enforcing rules is different than just shucking them off with a rhyme.
I agree that the rhyme might be a bit silly. I think the issue here is what age we're talking about. For a 2 year old, yes the juice is a big deal. For a 4 year old, they might need to start learning to go with the flow a bit more.

This is the art of parenting, IMO...recognizing when a change is needed in our response to our children's behavior. Having the same response for a 5 year old as one did when they were 2 is not helpful. So all of this is very age-dependent, I think.
swampangel is offline  
#65 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 12:58 AM
 
monkey's mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampangel View Post
I really don't see what is wrong with helping kids to move through these minor disappointments gracefully.
I don't think anyone's against that.

But that rhyme to me is the equivalant of, "Talk to the hand!" or "Shut it!" or "Zip it!" vs. politely asking a child to speak quietly or respect a need for silence.
monkey's mom is offline  
#66 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 01:09 AM
 
eightyferrettoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Yes. Totally different.

Also, there's a really good article in the sticky called, "A Cry for Connection," about understanding tantrums. I don't think kids are having "fits" b/c they want to or b/c they're trying to ruin anyone's day.
I don't think they are doing it intentionally, either, (though DoG knows it can seem that way ) but I do think that without a certain degree of parental disapproval or "non-validation" of the tantrum, kids tend not to learn more mature ways to handle life's little disappointments.

Heck, we've all met adults who have somehow failed to learn to deal with circumstances beyond their control in ways that don't involve putting their fists through the wall, no?

But then, I'm not sure I really believe children are innately completely virtuous, so maybe I'm not really GD enough for the GD forum.

Anyway, I don't think they're evil, but I do think they need some molding to become the social critters that their human nature requires them to become.
Part of that is learning not to complain about every last every-lovin' trivial thing that happens all day long. At some point, a chronic complainer loses audience members, whether he's 4 or 40.

Plus, seriously, and I dunno about y'all, but I really lack the emotional energy to seriously empathize with my kid about how awful it is that he must drink milk or water instead of grape juice.

"uh-huh. So, I guess you're not that thirsty? mmmkay."



Anyway, if a customer doesn't like the product at Starbucks, the real standard response is to take your caffiene-junkie self to the stand down the road, not b!tch at the barista. The age-old agony of childhood is that you don't get to pick your mama. And she ain't getting paid for her trouble, anyway.

This seems unlikely to change.
eightyferrettoes is offline  
#67 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 02:09 AM
 
limabean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
And once again, sure, Mom needs space and time to her own emotions ~~ but that's for those of you lucky enough to have someone to step in and take over. I think that throwing that rule out there for all families is pretty elitist.
So ... we should be grateful for what we do have ... and not throw a fit about what we don't?

DH+Me 1994 heartbeat.gif DS 2004 heartbeat.gif DD 2008 heartbeat.gif DDog 2014
limabean is online now  
#68 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 05:33 AM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean View Post
So ... we should be grateful for what we do have ... and not throw a fit about what we don't?
Who's not throwing a fit about it?? Man, what I'd give for someone to fill the roll of co-parent...






:
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#69 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 09:36 AM
 
maya44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
But for a kid the juice IS the big stuff. Empathizing and still enforcing rules is different than just shucking them off with a rhyme.

And once again, sure, Mom needs space and time to her own emotions ~~ but that's for those of you lucky enough to have someone to step in and take over. I think that throwing that rule out there for all families is pretty elitist.
I don't think its "elitist" at all. Where I live, people have tons of money and social status, but many, many, many dads are not home at bedtime. They are working (late or out of town) to bring in those mega bucks. Yet many moms I know adhere to this type of rule.

You don't need two parents there to have this type of rule. You probably have to wait until you child is old ennough to undertand. I instituted this practice around age 4 and my DH was often not home at bedtime. But I made it clear I was "done" after a certain time. No more stories, songs, oodles of cuddeling etc...I was after that time on "emergency duty" only.
maya44 is offline  
#70 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 11:42 AM
 
shayinme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: land of lobster and lighthouses
Posts: 5,089
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
I don't think its "elitist" at all. Where I live, people have tons of money and social status, but many, many, many dads are not home at bedtime. They are working (late or out of town) to bring in those mega bucks. Yet many moms I know adhere to this type of rule.

You don't need two parents there to have this type of rule. You probably have to wait until you child is old ennough to undertand. I instituted this practice around age 4 and my DH was often not home at bedtime. But I made it clear I was "done" after a certain time. No more stories, songs, oodles of cuddeling etc...I was after that time on "emergency duty" only.
I was a single Mama from ages 1-6 with my son and I did have this type of rule. His bedtime was 8 and that was how it was, I seemed to remember it was around 3.5 -4 that I was better able to enforce these policies as far as after 8, its Mama time. To be brutally honest as a single Mama, I needed that time to clean-up, get ready for the next day and just a few minutes to catch my breath. Admittedly I was not what many MDC folks would consider a AP/GD parent with my son.. but I did the best I could.

My son is now 15 and doesn't seem to feel bad about how he was treated, he knew I did the best I could. Hell, at 4, he had to help me carry groceries home and still remembers one day our bags broke and I told him he still had to carry something.. I probably snapped at him and wasn't gentle but he looks back at that time and laughs..

Shay

Mothering since 1992...its one of the many hats I wear.
shayinme is offline  
#71 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 12:12 PM
 
Subhuti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jeta Grove
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by myjulybabes View Post

Oddly, the one I don't like is "I don't work after 8". Which is silly, because I'm a huge proponent of bedtimes, my kids have them, we enforce them, even in the summer (bedtime is a little later, but there's still bedtime!). But the wording rubs me somehow on this one. Maybe I'm just weird.
I agree... i think that calling time with children, especially cuddly bedtime activities, "work" is hurtful. I would use something a little more tactful in front of the kids: "After 8pm, mom goes on break."

Liz

Kids. I got two of 'em.
Subhuti is offline  
#72 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 02:50 PM
 
monkey's mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes View Post
Anyway, if a customer doesn't like the product at Starbucks, the real standard response is to take your caffiene-junkie self to the stand down the road, not b!tch at the barista. The age-old agony of childhood is that you don't get to pick your mama. And she ain't getting paid for her trouble, anyway.

This seems unlikely to change.
But Starbucks' response is not, "Like it or lump it" or "You get what you get...." Because that would be incredibly rude and bad for business. Their response is to apologize, remake a drink, and/or offer a coupon for a free drink.

Just b/c I'm not getting "paid for my trouble" doesn't give me an excuse to be rude and dismissive to anyone. And for me, that's what the author is advocating.

I used to volunteer at a nursing home when I was a teenager. We used to bring around nail polish to the ladies and let them pick out a color and paint their nails. Some of the ladies would take a long time selecting a color--musing over this one or that one, holding them up to the light, considering what outfit they were going to wear that night to dinner, etc. I would never have thought to tell them it wasn't a big deal and that they should just pick whatever and move on--that would be extremely rude in my opinion. It just seems like the same thing with kids. Just b/c it's not important to me, or I'm feeling impatient, doesn't mean that it's OK to be rude to the other person.

Re. the break "rule:" Again it boils down to a level of rudeness that isn't acceptable to me. If I'm in the grocery store and can't find an item, and I ask a uniformed employee walking by to assist me, is it OK for them to just respond, "Sorry. I'm on break," and keep moving? Is that the kind of employee I want my kid to grow up to be? For me, it's not. I'd want my kids to take the minute and help the person or politely offer to find another employee to assist them.

Would I tell my elderly father that after 8 pm, "No, Dad, I'm on break?" I just wouldn't--it would be hurtful and embarrassing to him. I wouldn't want my kids to tell me that if I were old and needed to move in with them.

Obviously, people need breaks. But I think there's a way to say, "I'm beat. Can I get you anything right now before I put my feet up for a few?" instead of, "I'm on break."
monkey's mom is offline  
#73 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 03:06 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
But Starbucks' response is not, "Like it or lump it" or "You get what you get...." Because that would be incredibly rude and bad for business. Their response is to apologize, remake a drink, and/or offer a coupon for a free drink.

Just b/c I'm not getting "paid for my trouble" doesn't give me an excuse to be rude and dismissive to anyone. And for me, that's what the author is advocating.

I used to volunteer at a nursing home when I was a teenager. We used to bring around nail polish to the ladies and let them pick out a color and paint their nails. Some of the ladies would take a long time selecting a color--musing over this one or that one, holding them up to the light, considering what outfit they were going to wear that night to dinner, etc. I would never have thought to tell them it wasn't a big deal and that they should just pick whatever and move on--that would be extremely rude in my opinion. It just seems like the same thing with kids. Just b/c it's not important to me, or I'm feeling impatient, doesn't mean that it's OK to be rude to the other person.

Re. the break "rule:" Again it boils down to a level of rudeness that isn't acceptable to me. If I'm in the grocery store and can't find an item, and I ask a uniformed employee walking by to assist me, is it OK for them to just respond, "Sorry. I'm on break," and keep moving? Is that the kind of employee I want my kid to grow up to be? For me, it's not. I'd want my kids to take the minute and help the person or politely offer to find another employee to assist them.

Would I tell my elderly father that after 8 pm, "No, Dad, I'm on break?" I just wouldn't--it would be hurtful and embarrassing to him. I wouldn't want my kids to tell me that if I were old and needed to move in with them.

Obviously, people need breaks. But I think there's a way to say, "I'm beat. Can I get you anything right now before I put my feet up for a few?" instead of, "I'm on break."
:



And, ok, sure, you can do the break thing as a single mama but ~~ that's a level of distance I'm unwilling to impose on my children. They've been through enough. I'm one of the only adults with whom they have a solid, unwavering emotional connection. I'm not going to risk harming that bond.

I do take breaks but I don't think it's ... AP I guess... to empose time limits on my working. If they get up with a sore tummy at midnight, there's no way in hell I'd tell them, "go away mama's on break." Like monkey's mom said ~ we would never do that to, or accept it from, an adult.

Furthermore, I still think it's elitist in a way to say this to the general population ~ "off work at 8 pm" ~ because that does imply that there will be someone else there to pick up the slack. For those parents where the SO returns at bedtime, they're still home ~ to do a load of laundry or dishes or general picking up, whatever, the implication is that there will be another "working" adult present to care for the needs of the children. And if that's *not* the implication ~ geez, what message does *that* send to the kids? "Your needs are unimportant after a certain time" -- ?? And single parents aren't going to have that break anyway, so it's pretty inane to say, "everyone stop working at x hours."


Anyway I'll stop ranting.
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#74 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 03:08 PM
 
swampangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I also think it can come down to what we believe our kids are capable of and what we expect. Kids have a very intuitive nature...they can sense if we aren't sure of something. If we are confident in what we are expecting (i.e., I know you can do this), I think we are instilling a sense of confidence and capability in our kids.

I think the bedtime rule isn't too bad...I cringed when I read the author's descirption, but I think it can be tailored. For us, we do respond anytime of the day or night but we send the message that when it's bedtime it's time to settle down for the night. My 4yo ds usually only gets up when he's really not very tired due to having had a nap that day. When we cut out the nap, he crashes and we get "our" time without any problem.

I agree with Mamaduck, though, that being too strict on that one can be scary for a child. I think just talking about the parent(s)'s need to alone time is good enough...it doesn't have to be a strict rule.
swampangel is offline  
#75 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 04:03 PM
 
GuildJenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I find it hard to judge without the context.

I don't see anything terrible about any of these rules, but like any list of rules, it's hard to know what they really mean.

For example, if the majority of the family time is spent in chores and maintenance and things, then I think it's hard on a child to be asked to "help or stay away" during all that time - if it's just 40 mins here and there, then it's fine. It also depends on the tone in which it's asked, and what happens if the kids don't comply.

What I think put me off the list is that there weren't ages or other guidelines given. I get that it's a fast one-off article, but that's what stuck with me - they're just floating out there.

Using the same rule as an example, I think this is not a good rule for toddlers (obviously)... but I also think it is not a good rule for adolescents, who often only feel comfortable grudgingly allowing parents a slight glimpse into what they're struggling with when the parents' attention is actually on something else.

I think that's the argument that's mainly coming out over the "get what you get" rule. Like so many things, it really does depend on what else is going on. Fine for a kid who's generally happy and just wanting the red popsicle... not so good for a child just home from school who's needing/wanting to feel reintegrated into the care of love of the family.

Incidently I think a lot of the reason these things work so well in groups is that kids are "more grown up" outside the home - and come home tired out and needing extra care because of all that coping energy!

~ Mum to Emily, March 12-16 2004, Noah, born Aug 2005, Liam, born January 2011, and wife to Carl since 1994. ~
GuildJenn is offline  
#76 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 04:09 PM
 
warriorprincess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Peoples Repub. of Treacle Mine Rd
Posts: 1,605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't like the idea of "you can't be with me unless you're working' or "I stop being a mom at 8 PM". But I DO use "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit" ( My kids are 10, 8 and 5 and will argue over who got the best chewable vitamen). I also use " take that show on the road" My limits of tolerance just don't extend to two boys making machine gun noises constantly, KWIM?

Oh, and I think I can out evil the author on the boredom thing. If my kids tell me they're bored I give them a chore.
warriorprincess is offline  
#77 of 115 Old 06-23-2007, 04:40 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorprincess View Post
If my kids tell me they're bored I give them a chore.

Me too. I usually immediately hear, "OH I'm not bored anymore! Really mom I'm not bye!!!!!"
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#78 of 115 Old 06-25-2007, 04:35 PM
 
sbgilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I may have to take up the "I am off at 8pm" rule, maybe my dh would help out a little more and be more aware of the time!
sbgilson is offline  
#79 of 115 Old 06-25-2007, 06:30 PM
 
frontierpsych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Where the other 4999 Bensoners are...
Posts: 6,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiddleMama View Post
I agree that the overall tone seems as though the author is a bit burnt out on being around her kids, which I'm guessing most of us can relate to from time to time.

Taking each of her "rules" seperately though, here's what I glean from them:

1. You can't be in the room when I'm working unless you work, too
There's something to be said for kids who appreciate the companionship of being near a parent without having to be "entertained" all the time. My 17 mo, for example, loves to fold laundry (i.e. pull it out of the baskets and carry it around the room) while I'm folding laundry.

2. I don't work past 8 p.m.
Good rule!

3. You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit
This rule isn't appropriate until the preschool years or so but it can be actually quite magical with 3 and 4 year olds. I used to teach preschool and the director of the school said this often in a playful way and the kids really responded in a positive way to it. It's a beginning form of learning acceptance and I think it's okay if it's used playfully and respectfully.

4. Take that show on the road
To me, this one just sounds like "Go away" and I have a hard time imagining when it might be appropriate. But my kid doesn't talk much yet so it might become clear to me soon enough.

Thanks for posting that! It was interesting to think about those rules.
:

I don't like that last rule, but the rest of them don't sound too bad. I don't think that they are rules I would personally instate, but definitely not shocking.

I'm a modifiedartist.gif DH is a reading.gif we have 2 angel.gifs, and DS is a rainbow1284.gif baby.gif
frontierpsych is offline  
#80 of 115 Old 06-25-2007, 06:32 PM
 
frontierpsych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Where the other 4999 Bensoners are...
Posts: 6,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorprincess View Post
If my kids tell me they're bored I give them a chore.
My mom did that, and I HATED IT!

"Mom, I'm bored!"
"Do the dishes"

:

I'm a modifiedartist.gif DH is a reading.gif we have 2 angel.gifs, and DS is a rainbow1284.gif baby.gif
frontierpsych is offline  
#81 of 115 Old 06-25-2007, 06:34 PM
 
queenbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like the idea behind all those rules, but I would modify a couple of them a bit. I like giving children the choice of either helping with your work or going to play somewhere else, because I can remember wanting to be with my mom, but instead of helping her, I would just bug her and get in her way and impede her progress. Not on purpose, but it still happened. I think it should be a choice though, and not a "work when I'm working or else" type thing. Of course, I think that the author INTENDED it to be a choice anyway.

The "you get what you get one" makes sense, but only after a few lengthy discussions on appropriate expressions of disappointment. It's important to remind children that we don't throw tantrums, and sometimes a catchy rhyme does the trick. But the rhyme itself cannot be the end-all. There has to be ongoing discussions about appropriate ways of expressing our feelings.

The "take this show on the road" rule is good, to an extent. Sometimes kids know you're on the phone, but they want your attention, so subconsciously they start making all kinds of noise so you can't talk on the phone. They don't mean to be pests, but they are anyway. But I think there needs to be a balance between sending them on their way all the time and foregoing your own wants to focus on the kids sometimes.

The "I don't work after 8 pm" is an AWESOME rule, but I don't think that bedtime stories and snuggles should be classified as work. I certainly don't view them as work -- they're my favorite part of the day. Maybe the rule should include things like helping brush teeth, giving baths, getting into pjs, cleaning up the living room, or things like that, but the snuggle stuff is not work, and kids shouldn't be made to feel like you do those things out of obligation. Kids should feel that you enjoy spending time with them.

All in all, I think the article made some good points, and I like the rules, just with some modification. I'll bookmark it, and also keep my own changes in mind for when my kids are old enough to need rules like this.
queenbean is offline  
#82 of 115 Old 06-25-2007, 07:03 PM
 
choli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,933
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorprincess View Post
I don't like the idea of "you can't be with me unless you're working' or "I stop being a mom at 8 PM". But I DO use "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit" ( My kids are 10, 8 and 5 and will argue over who got the best chewable vitamen). I also use " take that show on the road" My limits of tolerance just don't extend to two boys making machine gun noises constantly, KWIM?

Oh, and I think I can out evil the author on the boredom thing. If my kids tell me they're bored I give them a chore.
OMG, I totally do that too! My mother used to do it to me, too. It's very effective. In fairness to myself, I DO try to make it a fun chore that both DDs can do together, like washing a window or sorting photographs....
choli is online now  
#83 of 115 Old 06-25-2007, 08:17 PM
 
eightyferrettoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post
OMG, I totally do that too! My mother used to do it to me, too.
My mom, too. . I think what she was saying was, "I'm not your personal entertainer."

Anyway, to answer another poster, nobody HAS to volunteer to paint nails at the nursing home. You can get tired of doing it and stop volunteering anytime. Most people do quit when they get busy doing other things, like working a job or raising their own babies. And it's never a gig that lasts 18-plus years, either.

In more intensive caregiving situations, like when your ailing grandfather moves in to spend his last days with you, most elderly folks understand that their needs are WORK for you, and tend to be appropriately mindful about making their requests. Maybe too mindful, sometimes, but it is what it is.

My elderly great-grandfather did NOT throw tantrums at 11PM because he was overtired and wanted a brownie with milk in the PINK cup, YK? He knew his daughters worked hard to tend to his needs, and didn't wish to impose excessively.

A six year old lacks that kind of learned self-awareness, hence the meanie old "rule."

: I don't think it's terribly rude to crystallize the that expectation in words, given that children haven't yet had a lifetime of becoming attuned to other people's needs. Like our need to have a break from their constant presence and demands!

Basically, I just want my son to understand that women doing traditional domestic women's work are not subject to coddling his every lil whim just because they're there.

Anyway, I freely admit that I'm not all that GD by certain standards. This mama has a limit on the amount of giving she can do before she gets REALLY unbearably grouchy, but I respect that others can keep it up better.

No hard feelings, though.
eightyferrettoes is offline  
#84 of 115 Old 06-25-2007, 09:48 PM
 
monkey's mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes View Post
Anyway, to answer another poster, nobody HAS to volunteer to paint nails at the nursing home. You can get tired of doing it and stop volunteering anytime. Most people do quit when they get busy doing other things, like working a job or raising their own babies. And it's never a gig that lasts 18-plus years, either.
And nobody HAS to have children. Or stick that out for any amount of time.

But in both situations, if I've made that commitment, the least I can do is TRY to be respectful and polite.

I'm not saying that we all don't get impatient or snippy or say things that come out rudely, but to compile a bunch of advice that basically encourages people to be rude and dismissive to their family members as the GOAL? I think that's cruddy.

Like I said, it's not how I would want to be treated and it's not how I would advise new moms to approach this journey. I think there are far less adversarial ways to set boundaries for ourselves and achieve balance.

Anyway, just my take on it...
monkey's mom is offline  
#85 of 115 Old 06-26-2007, 12:11 AM
 
fuller2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't think these are terrible rules.

The rhyme is silly and I would never say it to anyone, but I certainly agree with those who think it's worth letting children know that throwing a fit over something pretty inconsequential is not a pleasant personal quality to have.

To me it's similar to saying No once, and having it stay that way, no matter how much they whine. (Like begging for a Dove Bar after getting into bed...) Sorry, no Dove Bar--I don't care how much you beg for it. Case closed.

And the idea that telling your kid a popsicle color doesn't matter is going to destroy all sense of social justic seems bizarre, to put it mildly. For one thing, by reminding them that it really doesn't matter, you are teaching your kids that consumer "choice" is usually a farce (notice how almost all our examples here are about consumer products?), and that, IMO, is a very valuable lesson.

The difference between the blue or green popsicle is created by marketers. Feeling that the difference somehow expresses some part of your inner being is exactly what they want you to think. So encouraging them to want only one particular kind of thing (which you do by going along with it) is to me actually destructive--since it totally encourages them to identify with the meaningless distinctions of so many consumer items. As a parent in this society, part of my job is to teach my kid that these differences ARE mostly meaningless, and that there are a lot of far more important things to think about. Like social justice, for instance.

I just think it's very interesting how easily access to meaningless/trivial consumer 'choice' (which is what most people here are objecting to when they agree more or less with the 'you get what you get' thing) becomes conflated with the promotion of democracy, freedom, justice. They aren't the same thing at all. (though access to lots of consumer choice certainly can subdue any interest in social problems)
fuller2 is offline  
#86 of 115 Old 06-26-2007, 12:39 AM
 
ASusan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:

VERY well said, fuller2.

DS, 10/07. Allergies: peanut, egg, wheat. We've added dairy back in. And taken it back out again. It causes sandpaper skin with itchy patches and thrashing during sleep. Due w/ #2 late April, 2012.

ASusan is offline  
#87 of 115 Old 06-26-2007, 04:59 AM
 
RomanGoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Across the pond
Posts: 1,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sound like good rules to me. Thanks for posting.

Roman Goddess, mom to J (August 2004) and J (April 2009).    h20homebirth.gif signcirc1.gif
RomanGoddess is offline  
#88 of 115 Old 06-26-2007, 07:31 AM
Dal
 
Dal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Popsicle colours are inconsequential? They aren't just different colours (which itself can still matter -- how about I give you a fluorescent yellow shirt and tell you that you have to wear it whether you like it or not and be quiet about it -- that may be inconsequential to me... but it may be a huge deal to you), they are quite different flavours too -- you know, yelllow is banana, orange is orange, pink is who knows what (not my favourite!), green is lime... brown is chocolate, white is lemon... or something like that depending on the brand. The different colours taste quite different, much like different flavours of ice cream. I think children's preferences absolutely do matter!!! You get what you get so shut the f up (said with a nice little jingle and a smile)!!!??? Not my style. Something seems inconsequential to me so it therefore is inconsequential and you need to act as though it is also inconsequential to you...??? I'm not much of a fan for cutesy ways of interacting with children (or elderly people... my mother and a lot of other people treat both in the same way). Not necessarily that that is what is going on in the example... but it is hard for me to imagine it in another way.

I think there is a problem with the idea that a child whose needs are met is going to "throw a fit" over getting a pink popsicle rather than a yellow one. Really... I think if someone "throws a fit" over this, it is because there is other crap going on in her or his life and this incident was the tip of the iceberg. It may also be the way the child was given the popsicle and had her or his preferences discounted -- that may have felt humiliating to the child... and on top of a clutter of other frustrations and humiliations may have led to the big emotions. If an adult has a big explosion over something seemingly small, we don't expect the adult to just shut up and be quiet... (if we care about her or him!)... we're apt to ask what rotten things are going on in that adult's life that is contributing to her or his unusual state of sensitivity... and what we might be able to do to help. But for a child... oh they are just that way... losing it over nothing at all... they "need to learn" and unfortunately, they "need to learn" by essentially being broken... Let them wail and scream and tantrum and DO NOT GIVE IN!!! YOU NEED TO TEACH THEM that their rage WILL NOT GET THEM WHAT THEY WANT! They will eventually get it... JUST BE CONSISTENT!!! Um. No. I don't see tantrums as normal and inevitable and yada yada yada.

A rule that children aren't allowed to throw fits could do a lot to take away their ability to express that things are not right in their lives, even if the expression may be annoying to hear and see and may take up some time and may get in the way of what we want to be doing... I think it's there for a reason... and usually has nothing to do with the minor incident that set the child off. So... if children are taught to silence these big emotions, it may become a lot more difficult to help to meet the child's needs and to know when she or he is unhappy or not feeling well... maybe it would also become more difficult for the child to know how she or he feels about this or that or whether things are going well or not...

This is not to say that children should not be given information about how their actions are affecting others. If my son talks to me in a way that I don't like... I let him know that. If he raises his voice at me in anger I let him know how I feel about that and that I will listen to his reasons and consider his point of view and yada yada but I feel less inclined to help him if he is raising his voice at me as I tend to feel angry in response to that... I also let him know that I understand that it can feel good to be loud when one is angry. And so on and so forth...

The wording of that rule... ICK!!! "You get what you get so don't throw a fit"... that is SO DISMISSIVE to me... It also seems to have so many insensitive and problematic assumptions about children thrown into it... I think it may be comparable to asking women who are angry if they are "on the rag" or I guess saying to them "This is the way the world is so don't go PMSing on me." Or something like that! I'm rather tired and a bit stressed myself...
Dal is offline  
#89 of 115 Old 06-26-2007, 08:40 AM
 
Oriole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: by the ocean, lakes and mountains
Posts: 4,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dal View Post

I think there is a problem with the idea that a child whose needs are met is going to "throw a fit" over getting a pink popsicle rather than a yellow one. Really... I think if someone "throws a fit" over this, it is because there is other crap going on in her or his life and this incident was the tip of the iceberg. ...
That's plain insulting to me. Does that mean that every parent that had a child to throw a fit at the age of 3 is a bad parent and doesn't know how to parent, because popsicle is the tip of the iceberg on a bigger problem?!..

Um no... sometimes popsicle is just.... a popsicle....

It's not about social injustice, and it's not about a kid not being loved to death by their parents, nor is it about bad parenting style.. Sometimes a 3 year old just wants a popsicle, and they want it NOW.

If kids were capable of understanding all of the reasonings of adults - they'd move out at the age of 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dal View Post
A rule that children aren't allowed to throw fits could do a lot to take away their ability to express that things are not right in their lives...
True... if we were not talking about a popsicle but a visit to a scary doctor... Leaving a kid alone for hours... No stimulating toys int he room... Parents who never hug their kids, or respond to a crying child...

A FIT over a popsicle?.. Um no...

Should a parent expect tantrums from a 2 year old? Yes!..
Should a parent get into lengthy discussion with each tantrum if a kid is throwing themselves on the floor and screaming "give me yellow popsicle". Well.. I will not be that parent.

And if you for a minute think that I would tell a kid "Shut the f up!" (with or without a smile), well then the discussion is not worth continuing. *shrug*

New endeavor coming soon...
Raising Alice in Wonderland (DSD, 17), and in love with a Superman
Oriole is offline  
#90 of 115 Old 06-26-2007, 09:35 AM
 
LookMommy!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My ds's therapist (he has mild PDD) is big on "code phrases" for kids who have trouble with higher cognitive skills (like, just about all toddlers and pre-schoolers). So 'You get what you get and you don't get upset' (or, the Hebrew version, Whatever comes out I welcome) or 'When it's time to go, you don't go slow' (mine) are code phrases for "I accept that I can't always be the center of attention, and I realize that sometimes the needs of others need to be considered". We also take turns "One two three four Pass it to the one next door".

I mean, I like red popsicles too, but when there are 33 kids in a class, not everyone is going to get their first choice. It's OK, really. I think kids understand that it may not be fun, but it's fair, and that's the most important criteria. And you can always try to trade!

And not only don't I clean after 9 p.m., I managed to graduate phi beta kappa and all that without ever studying after 9 p.m. through high school and college! (There have probably been a few exceptions over the years to both of the above rules, but they are my personal limits unless it's urgent).

Oh, and I have another rule - I pick who's allowed in my bed (my room is where the only TV is ) and if you have smelly feet, or bad breath, you're not invited!
LookMommy! is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off