"Quirky Discipline Rules That Work" article on CNN.com - Wow - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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Gentle Discipline > "Quirky Discipline Rules That Work" article on CNN.com - Wow
Dal's Avatar Dal 11:02 AM 06-26-2007
Arg! I just wrote a long response and it is gone! Great!!!!

I don't think tantrums are inevitable or natural. I'm even bothered by the term "tantrum" and how it is generally used -- though it's preferable to "throwing a fit." Maybe I'm interpreting "tantrum" differently than others... I mean it in the classic sense... a child who is exhibiting a lot of rage and anger, typically by thrashing around and screaming, usually for some period of time (I wouldn't count throwing a toy in anger as a tantrum... though it may be on the same scale that leads up to a tantrum).

I don't think that a child who tantrums in the classic sense necessarily does so because the primary caregiver(s) are not adequately GD. I certainly don't think children tantrum (or come close to it) over the colour of their popsicle. I think that what parents do often has a tonne to do with it, but a child's environment is so much more than how her mother and father and so on treat her. Some children may just have a lot more difficult time feeling right and at home given how things are set up in our society. E.g., a child with very high social needs may be quite stressed out to live in a nuclear family and rarely spend time with anyone besides his mother and sibling... spending large amounts of time with a group of same-aged peers may similarly be a very poor fit for what is best for a particular child's personality... some children likely have copious amounts of energy to burn and very few resources for expending it... and so on and on and on.

I don't want to offend anyone. I'm not sure if it's what I'm saying or how. To me, "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit" is not all that far off from "take it and I want you to shut the f up about it" (playfully... I should have found an example without slang since I'm not really bothered by it all that much... though it does convey how I feel when I hear the words "don't throw a fit").

Mothering.com is seeming quite mainstream to me and I'm bothered by that... so maybe a bit of my disappointment is creeping in... or a lot of it. I have benefited tremendously from things I've read here from some of the more radical members and I like to share my point of view... but I don't want to upset anyone.

I know that my son (who is 3 and a quarter) would have had (and continue to have) a lot of classic tantrums if he were treated in mainstream ways... including many of the ways described here. Maybe even over a popsicle. The more he is treated in top-down and dismissive sorts of ways... the closer he gets... the more of his needs are unmet... the more upset he gets (though he doesn't get angry with me unless he feels I am being his adversary)... my own experiences and similar anecdotes from other parents whose children have gone through the early years without any classic tantrums... does colour how I read a lot of what I read here.

monkey's mom's Avatar monkey's mom 11:29 AM 06-26-2007
Dal, I totally agree with you.

And really, she's not talking about teaching kids how to deal with disappointment and feelings in socially acceptable ways.

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You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit

Goal: No more haggling -- over which pretzel has more salt or who gets their milk in the prized red cup and who in the cursed green, or which cast member of "Blue's Clues" adorns whose paper plate
She's talking about kids "haggling." Which to me means that very normal stage where kids go, "Hey, I wanted that one." Which is VERY different than dropping to the ground kicking, screaming, and thrashing.

I've worked with groups of kids for most of my life, and even in a large group it's not that hard to say, "Does anyone want to trade their green with Janey?" or "Oh, I'm sorry honey. Hey guys how about next time we make sure there's a green one for Janey?"

It's not that hard to model that level of sensitivity and consideration.

And to those who say, "Well, I don't want to hear it. It makes me cranky and I'm not a good mommy." I have to wonder how you would feel if your mother or husband or best friend said, "Well, you wanted these kids. Suck it up."

Because it seems just as rude and dismissive as what the author advises.

If we choose to have children, perhaps we shouldn't treat them as if they're burdening us. That's my advice!
daniedb's Avatar daniedb 11:31 AM 06-26-2007
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Originally Posted by LookMommy! View Post
My ds's therapist (he has mild PDD) is big on "code phrases" for kids who have trouble with higher cognitive skills (like, just about all toddlers and pre-schoolers). So 'You get what you get and you don't get upset' (or, the Hebrew version, Whatever comes out I welcome) or 'When it's time to go, you don't go slow' (mine) are code phrases for "I accept that I can't always be the center of attention, and I realize that sometimes the needs of others need to be considered". We also take turns "One two three four Pass it to the one next door".
TY so much for that wonderful Hebrew version of the "fit" rule. I love the simplicity and focus on gratitude in those few words. I think that phrasing it with that in mind turns a negative "don't throw a fit" into a positive, "We are grateful for what we have". What a beautiful concept to use when faced with disappointment.

And before the responses get all, "So we should be grateful if mom hands us a steaming dog turd for dinner?" let's just agree that no mom posting here would ever think of depriving or abusing her child, and assume that we are all working our best to meet our kids' wants and desires in a healthy way.
mama k nj's Avatar mama k nj 02:35 PM 06-26-2007
Wow. Skimming this thread has given me some hope. I am just learning about GD and so far I DO find AP very draining emotionally and physically (babywearing and little sleep) I do what I do 'cause I feel it's best for my LO, but I'd be lying if I said it doesn't get old sometimes.

Thanks for being honest mamas! I can see how some of the "rules" allow you to set personal boundries and teach your LOs to respect others with out getting into a power struggle. I especially like the being thankful for what you are given slant. Gratititude is an awesome value to possess!

I agree that her tone is a bit rough, but I think it's meant as sarcasm and is probably her writing style.

ETA: above all I dont' think any one set of "rules" applies to anyone, including the AP ones (dare I say it) Each child is different and each of us has a different personality as parents. I think the key would be doing what works best for the family so that everyone is getting their needs met most of the time.
dianamerrell's Avatar dianamerrell 03:33 PM 06-26-2007
i personally dont like the 8pm off work rule.

i feel that my children should know I will be there for them anytime, even if inconvienent timing.

children hear adults complain about work, and needing a break/vacation. maybe some children will take that personally, that they are another task to be taken care of.

IMO there has got to be a better way for everyone needs to be met.


What do some of the moms here do to get time to themselves, while being repectful to their children?
Paigerina's Avatar Paigerina 05:53 PM 06-26-2007
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I found this article on CNN.com. I am amazed at some of the suggestions, but it's the author's tone that bother's me the most. Does she even like her kids? It made me sad.
The author's tone bothers me a lot. The approach she advocates made me feel very stifled and resentful as a child. I was subject to similar rules and found them unfair and infuriating. Such rules were the reason I often became angry and upset as a child.

Words like "enforce" have no place in the home. Enforcing is about wielding power. Wielding power over kids teaches kids to wield power. The approach the author advocates leads to kids trying to enforce rules for their siblings and friends to follow, and to misuse of power in adulthood.

Showing kids empathy, patience and respect cultivates empathy, patience and respect. Kids deserve to be treated respectfully, and it's reasonable to expect respect from them. But there is often a limit to what you can expect from young kids. Perspective is something young children often lack. You get perspective by living life and reflecting. Young kids haven't lived long or had the chance to reflect much.

"You get what you get..." is another way of saying "life's not fair." When a meteor flies through the roof and kills someone, it makes sense to say "life's not fair." When people treat others in a way that is ageist, sexist or otherwise disrespectful or dismissive, it makes sense to say they're not being fair!

The author advocates using "clever" tactics to control your kids. But use of tactics shouldn't be modeled or encouraged. Control is not the goal of any healthy relationship.

Social justice is not an abstract concept. Children understand it innately, which is why they often become outraged and shout "It's not fair!" Social justice starts at home.

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"You get what you get and you don't get upset" is the bane of my existence.
This was the bane of my existence throughout childhood and continues to be!

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This particular one is horrid, IMO. Kids have these well developed senses of injustice peole are always trying to quash. Instead of shutting down emotional responses to what's not fair, how about give your child the emotional tools to process the hurt and upset and talk about it?
Exactly.

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I think that teaching coping skills is better than just expecting them.
Makes perfect sense.

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Obviously, people need breaks. But I think there's a way to say, "I'm beat. Can I get you anything right now before I put my feet up for a few?" instead of, "I'm on break."
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I think there are far less adversarial ways to set boundaries for ourselves and achieve balance.
This sounds very reasonable.

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It's not that hard to model that level of sensitivity and consideration.
Agreed.
warriorprincess's Avatar warriorprincess 06:18 PM 06-26-2007
The way Is use "You get what you get" is not to stop ONE child from throwing a tantrum, but to keep multiple children from fighting each other. when you have three kids it's not always as easy to give them all what they want.
Also, I use it a pre-emptive. I don'r wait for a kid to object, I say it before I hand the stuff out ( which I always do randomized).
Aura_Kitten's Avatar Aura_Kitten 06:58 PM 06-26-2007
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And not only don't I clean after 9 p.m., I managed to graduate phi beta kappa and all that without ever studying after 9 p.m. through high school and college!
A minor side note: this comes off as really ... self-inflating ... kind of arrogant I guess... to those of us who work full time jobs and raise kids on top of that. Sometimes it's necessary to do work after 9 pm. : If you work 9 to 5 and somewhere in between also attend classes, AND raise children, there's no way you can't study outside of class and learn what you're supposed to learn ~ and for many of us that means late into the night ~ unless you're majoring in something like "Dumb crap you already know."



I agree about the popsicle thing too ~ they DO all have very different flavors.

And I also do agree that kids have a well developed sense of social injustice ~ and it just needs to be guided into proper forms of outlet. No, I wouldn't throw myself on the floor screaming in my boss's office if I found out my coworker was getting paid more than me for the same work; I would, however, find a way to deal with it in an adult manner. And I think kids can learn that too ~ it just takes more effort than repeating a silly little rhyme.

Option 1. "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit."

Option 2. "I see that you're upset about getting a red popsicle. Will you please tell me why you wanted a purple one? Well, there aren't any more purple ones, even though I know that it's your favorite -- are there any other colors you like more than red? Let's trade."
Mamma Mia's Avatar Mamma Mia 07:18 PM 06-26-2007
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Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
If we choose to have children, perhaps we shouldn't treat them as if they're burdening us. That's my advice!
Yes!I think this could be a response to a lot of parenting advice columns.
fuller2's Avatar fuller2 01:13 AM 06-27-2007
Yes, popsicles are different flavors. (I personally would rather have no popsicle than the green one.) Yes, if my kid's choice is available, I am happy to give it to him.

But. What I am trying to avoid in my parenting is the idea that just because you want something, you should be able to get it immediately. And also that there are some things you should try to be flexible about. If he wants the red popsicle and I don't have one, I am probably not going to go out and get him one unless we are going to the store anyway. I am also a single mom, and I feel that when it comes to buying things that aren't "needed," like this red popsicle, it's not going to happen. It is not about "injustice," it's about the reality that we simply don't have enough money (nor does Mommy always have the energy) to fulfill every request for things like red popsicles.

Now, if he wants to read his book about planets--all for that. If he wants to build a model robot out of paper clips--I'll sit and do that with him for an hour. But if he wants a red popsicle and I don't have any, and it's 7:30 pm and I am wiped out and he needs to get ready for bed? No, he's not going to have one. (I do agree that his "need" for a red popsicle might mean something else--like that he is tired and hot, in which case I might have him take a cool bath and drink some water. My not buying him a red popsicle does NOT mean that I therefore ignore his feelings.)

I don't know. My totally unscientific observations seem to indicate to me that kids who are given every single thing they ask for--and who have parents who will drop everything and go out at 7:30 pm to the store to buy red popsicles because the child wants one--sometimes end up being very picky, whiny, and unhappy. Perhaps because what they are "asking" for isn't really what they need...which is another thing I use my 35 years of life experience to figure out. (They don't need another red popsicle. They need you to sit and read a book with them, they need to run around outside, etc.)

I really dislike the idea that AP = "absolute maternal sacrifice and children at the center of every single moment," by the way. I don't think that's the intent at all. For me, AP is in large part about integrating children and mothering into all parts of life--not separating them, isolating them, in the way we tend to do in our society. Living in a "tribe" with all ages means that NO ONE is constantly the Most Important--which means that everyone has to learn that everyone else has needs and wants too.

So having a kid learn that it's not cool to demand a certain popsicle when the other people in the group are not able to provide one for whatever reason seems like a fine thing to learn to me. If all is well, they will get a popsicle at another time.

(BTW, I make my own dang popsicles with juice in the freezer! I don't buy ANY popsicles ever!!)
monkey's mom's Avatar monkey's mom 01:26 AM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by fuller2 View Post
But. What I am trying to avoid in my parenting is the idea that just because you want something, you should be able to get it immediately.

[snip...]

I don't know. My totally unscientific observations seem to indicate to me that kids who are given every single thing they ask for--and who have parents who will drop everything and go out at 7:30 pm to the store to buy red popsicles because the child wants one--sometimes end up being very picky, whiny, and unhappy.

[snip]

I really dislike the idea that AP = "absolute maternal sacrifice and children at the center of every single moment," by the way. I don't think that's the intent at all.
I, for one, am not suggesting anything remotely like what you've described here.

And it's been a big thread, but I don't recall anyone saying anything like this.

I just want to clarify, b/c I would hate for someone to think that I disagree with the original article on the grounds that I think children ought to be given everything they desire--at any cost, or that that has anything to do with attachment parenting or gentle discipline.

I disagree with the article b/c I think it advises rude and disengaging behaviors, it perpetuates negative attitudes about children, and b/c it sounds like a recipe for DAMAGING rather than BUILDING relationships betw. parents and children, which is at the heart of AP (as I understand it).
Lady Madonna's Avatar Lady Madonna 01:52 AM 06-27-2007
We picked up "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit" at DD's preschool - and she says it more than I do! For us, it's usually about when you get what you asked for - say, cut-up mango - and then proceed to pitch a fit about the fact that it's not cut up *exactly* the way you want it - say, big v. small pieces, strips v. cubes. You *got* what you asked for, if you'd asked for "mango cut up in little pieces", you'd have gotten that. I'm happy to talk to you about how we could make the mango pieces smaller or whatever, but I am NOT going to have that conversation with someone who starts screaming or wailing instead of saying "oh, I wanted it in XXX pieces".

The one I use *all the time* that didn't get exerpted here is "I can't understand you when you speak like that". I'm willing to discuss pretty much anything - in a normal, reasonable tone of voice. Whining or yelling is not going to get a response other than "I can't understand you when you talk in that voice." When I get the request again in a normal tone of voice, I thank DD for using a voice I can understand, and we move forward with the topic.

Fundamentally, I see both rules being about managing interactions and working together in ways that make everyone involved comfortable and respectful. I won't have a conversation with an adult who is whining or screaming, and I try to work that into how I teach DD to interact with other people.

On the others ... I might have to start instituting the mom's off time - more to enforce it for myself than anyone else in the house. I can be lax about bedtime, and then I get cranky and frustrated. But I work well under pressure, even self-created artificial pressure, so a deadline might help!
monkey's mom's Avatar monkey's mom 02:07 AM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by Lady Madonna View Post
I can be lax about bedtime, and then I get cranky and frustrated.
So let me ask you, when you get to that point would you find it more or less comfortable and respectful for your child to say to you, "I can't understand you when you're like this. When you speak nicely to me, I will listen?"

Wouldn't you rather hear something like, "Mama, I'm sorry you're upset. How can I help you?"
thismama's Avatar thismama 02:28 AM 06-27-2007
I'm kind of liking these rule suggestions. We do a few of them around here. Definitely respect for mama doing work. Not necessarily that she must be working, but don't bug me when I am. And don't moan about the characters on your plate, and other petty things like that. I'm all over that.

I don't care much about bedtime, but my daughter is a joy to be around most of the time. Maybe if ppl follow the rest of these rules, they won't mind so much about an early bedtime.
Lady Madonna's Avatar Lady Madonna 03:14 AM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
So let me ask you, when you get to that point would you find it more or less comfortable and respectful for your child to say to you, "I can't understand you when you're like this. When you speak nicely to me, I will listen?"

Wouldn't you rather hear something like, "Mama, I'm sorry you're upset. How can I help you?"
I use the phrase "I can't understand you when you talk in that voice" because I *can't*. DD can get that pitch in her voice that truly pains my ears and all I can get is the whining, not the words. She can say the same exact words - even if they're rude or demanding - in her normal voice, and I will do anything I can for her. If she is unable to do that, then I know that there is a bigger issue behind it all, like she's tired or hungry or whatever, and I will deal with that in a kind, compassionate way. But I know my children, and I can usually tell the difference between the two.

Thanks, though, for implying that asking my child to use a tone of voice that doesn't set my teeth on edge means that I'm being disrespectful or dismissive of her feelings. :

I am not saying "you can't feel like that". I am incredibly careful to NOT be dismissive of any child's feelings, after growing up constantly being told "no, you're not really angry/sad/hurt".

I'm saying "please use a different tone of voice". DD can feel however she wants, and express it to me in any words she wants, but the whining sets me immediately on edge and, if continuous, makes me want to get far far away, not help her out. Saying that I can't understand her gives her a chance to reframe her request if she wants to; if she doesn't want to, she can make the exact same request with the exact same words, as long as she is not whining just because . She doesn't have to be "nice" - she just needs to NOT WHINE.

And I may get cranky and on-edge around my kids, but I don't whine at them. I reserve that for DH - though I do manage to avoid the squealing pitch DD seems to get to so easily. And believe me, DD has absolutely said to me "Mama, I don't like those words" or "those words aren't kind". Also, it is not DD's job to teach me how to manage my needs and emotions (though she certainly has taught me a lot about what's really important), but it is my job to help her learn how to get her needs met and express her emotions in healthy, positive ways.

So, while it might not work in your house, it works in ours, we all feel respected and heard, and I don't have to walk around with foam earplugs in all day in order to avoid bleeding from the ears because of whining.
monkey's mom's Avatar monkey's mom 11:37 AM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by Lady Madonna View Post
Thanks, though, for implying that asking my child to use a tone of voice that doesn't set my teeth on edge means that I'm being disrespectful or dismissive of her feelings. :
Ouch.

I think you might be hearing a tone in my posts that I don't intend.

I'm really trying to understand how people are hearing these rules in a way that is not rude. Because I can't imagine that I would appreciate someone talking to ME in that way. So I was trying to find out if others thought it was OK for someone to talk to THEM that way.

If you truly can't understand what someone is saying to you, then it's not really following that rule. You can't understand them.

If you're asking a person to speak in a way that doesn't set your teeth on edge (and I do that w/ my son), then, again, it's not that rule. I don't find it rude to ask someone to respect my tolerence for certain noises, sounds, voices.

But, the rule that this woman advocates talks about PRETENDING to not understand your kid:

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This one requires almost religious consistency of application to work effectively. But, essentially, you simply proclaim incomprehension when your child orders (rather than asks) you to do something, whines, or otherwise speaks to you in a way you don't like. Whispering this helps; it takes the whole thing down a notch on the carrying-on scale. This is a de-escalation tool, so calmly repeat the rule a few times and don't get lured into raising your voice. A child who's whining or being rude is clearly seeking attention and drama, so use this as a way to provide neither.
And I just think this is so counter to what we talk about and advocate here, I'm really, really surprised that this is supported:

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A child who's whining or being rude is clearly seeking attention and drama, so use this as a way to provide neither.
I don't know how else one could describe that, except as "dismissive."

I don't know....it just makes me sad to think about viewing and treating children like that.

So that's why I was asking how we might feel if we were treated like that.

I was pretty much treated like that, and I can't tell you how lonely and unheard I felt by my parents. And confused at why my feelings were such a threat to them. I don't know, maybe it's just me and my issues, but, this collection of rules really seems to defy what I thought I knew about AP and GD.
thismama's Avatar thismama 11:55 AM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
So let me ask you, when you get to that point would you find it more or less comfortable and respectful for your child to say to you, "I can't understand you when you're like this. When you speak nicely to me, I will listen?"

Wouldn't you rather hear something like, "Mama, I'm sorry you're upset. How can I help you?"
I agree with this. Most of the time.

I do think there is a difference between crying/upset vs. whining. Whining drives me nuts and I am more likely to ask for a correction in tone... something like, "Can you use your regular voice?"

But I also think we say things to children that we would not want said to us, or that we would not say to other adults. And I think we often dismiss or seek to ignore children's emotions.


eta - I think the pretending not to understand is really manipulative and messed up. Why not just say: "I feel irritated when you do the whining voice, can you use your regular?" Or something like that. At least that is honest, you are giving the child information about where you are coming from that is true. Rather than lying to them, telling them they are not communicating in a way that is understandable, which I think tells them either a) their parent is lying, or b) they think they are communicating but the feedback is that they are not.
monkey's mom's Avatar monkey's mom 11:59 AM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I agree with this.
Just saving this for posterity........... :

Back to your regularly scheduled thread............:
thismama's Avatar thismama 12:02 PM 06-27-2007

Oriole's Avatar Oriole 12:06 PM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
I don't know....it just makes me sad to think about viewing and treating children like that.
Makes me sad to think that I would be regarded as unloving parent who disrespects and damages her child just because I would like for my kid to use appropriate tone within appropriate situation.

My parents are the most loving parents in the world, and just because I was cut off and wasn't allowed to change my dress as we were leaving the house when I was 4 even if I went into a fit over it, doesn't mean I was damaged, disrespected, unloved, and don't care about social justice, or think that my parents don't care about my feelings... :

I am not promoting here child abuse, I'm not suggesting not to comfort your child when they are sad, I am not saying not to feed them, or play with them, I am suggesting to teach them that certain tone is not ok, and if you have ultrasensitive kid who will be hurt by the rhyme - don't use it!

If it works with my kid, and they laugh it off, and it helps them move on and not to make a big deal out of the color of popsicle - then don't think of me as a monster parent and don't feel sorry for my kid.
monkey's mom's Avatar monkey's mom 12:16 PM 06-27-2007
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Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
Makes me sad to think that I would be regarded as unloving parent who disrespects and damages her child just because I would like for my kid to use appropriate tone within appropriate situation.
Firstly, not one person has said that they think there is anything wrong with wanting kids to use appropriate tones. Or not fall to the ground kicking and screaming over every little thing.

But I do believe that there is a MUCH more resepctful way to do it than what this woman advocates.

Secondly, NO ONE has said anything about unloving or monster parents. Some people have jokingly called themselves "mean" or "evil" but no one has called people out like that.
Dal's Avatar Dal 11:59 AM 06-28-2007
monkey's mom, I love your posts. I just added to my facebook account, under the "about me" section, that I am chronically misunderstood. It looks like we're in the same boat!!! After adding that I'm chronically misunderstood, I quickly deleted it since I figured I would just be misunderstood anyway. I'm not sure whether that is progress. I find myself doing that a lot here lately too... if I bother to write anything at all. I find it hard (and annoying) to balance being myself and saying what I want to say with the art of trying to predict and correct for the many ways I'm going to be misunderstood or not come across as compassionate or sensitive and on and on (which is also important to me).

It seems to me that some people here are trying to train their children to be thus and so and others of us are more focused on living respectfully with our children and taking care of our relationships with them. I am not saying that the two are incompatible... but I find that the former mindset often gets in the way of the latter. The whole "children need to be taught" approach is foreign and distasteful to the mentality from which I operate.

I do not bend over backwards and dedicate my life to being my son's servant. I am way too much of a hedonist for that. I try to help him get what he wants in ways that work for everyone (me included!). This doesn't mean that there aren't times that he just can't have what he wants... but I don't throw snappy little "deal with it" lines at him. That reminds me... An ex of mine used to tell me to "deal with it" when I was pleading a case to him that was very important to me. Rarely have I felt as infuriated, misunderstood, and disrespected as when he would throw that line at me. I remember being so frustrated and thinking grrrrrrrr he just doesn't get it!!! and he doesn't even care!!!!!!

I find a lot of the popular parenting advice seems to make sense, but inadvertently promotes a lot of the negative traits it aims to squash (or other negative traits). E.g., parents are taught that they need to worry about their children "throwing a fit" over this or that in a store, taught to expect their children to do just this, and taught to view children and to respond to them in ways that end up encouraging them to throw fits time and time again so that the child can learn not to throw a fit. Remember... when they "throw a fit" be consistent (which often comes with advice that translates to being cold and sociopathic or at the very least dismissive or offering pretend empathy). I find this so frustrating!!! I also find it frustrating that I feel a strong vibe here telling me that I'm supposed to be quiet rather than say "Hey... this has not at all been my experience... and I know that it has not been the experience of other parents I know who practice nonviolent communication and consensual living (or whatever else autonomy-supportive parenting might be called)... our children are NOT 'throwing fits'... they get through toddlerhood without the allegedly to-be-expected intense fits of kicking and screaming in rage..."

If I dare to talk about that... I'll be read as holier than thou... People who make such a claim don't understand what other people are going through... we don't understand that different children have different temperaments... I do understand that there are differences... and I also KNOW that my son would be throwing HUGE fits if I engaged in power struggles with him or otherwise followed a lot of mainstream parenting advice.
monkey's mom's Avatar monkey's mom 01:10 PM 06-28-2007
Thanks Dal! :
LifeIZBeautiful's Avatar LifeIZBeautiful 01:29 PM 06-28-2007
seems they are geared toward older kids, beyond the young "they just don't comprehend this yet" group. I don't think they are all bad, so long as done respectfully.
The author's tone, IMO, is no big deal. She is writing to her audience--*us*--not children. I'll bet she uses gentle and respectful tones with her kids. Hell, who's to say she doesn't sing these rules to them in a playful voice ...
Dal's Avatar Dal 11:43 PM 06-28-2007
However my ex would say "get over it" to me... singing it or smiling or saying it in a gentle-sounding way and with good intent... it was still infuriating and humiliating for him to try to silence me and to basically tell me to shut up and that he was neither listening to what I had to say nor taking my point of view seriously. Sometimes it can be even more infuriating when the person is seemingly saccharine about dismissing one's point of view.
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