my neighbors tie their teenager to the chair?! - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 81 Old 06-26-2007, 11:29 AM
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Call CPS.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#62 of 81 Old 06-26-2007, 11:35 AM
 
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It is seriously breaking my heart reading this thread...

The police need to be involved, CPS needs to be involved. As a kid i went through abuse; physical, mental, emotional and sexual and no one did anything to help me. No one called the police no matter how I screamed. I was threatened that if the police got involved my dad would go to jjail and we would all starve... I couldn't call, someone else needed to.

Instead I suffered in that household until I was 18. I had tried to kill myself 3 times by then! My mom sent me to shrinks and tried to have me commited at one point... but I wasn't the one who had mental illness! It was her! She needs help to this day and refuses to get it.

I really hope the OP is ready to call the police next time she sees something. Or better yet call CPS now.

So darn depressing.
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#63 of 81 Old 06-26-2007, 11:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DBassett View Post
I have to strongly disagree with EVERYONE who said not to call the cops and CPS.

I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was a teenager- I AM NOT BIPOLAR. It was a misdiagnoses. I was misdiagnosed because I APPEARED bipolar because of my acting out. My acting out that was caused by my mother abusing me. She'd slam my head off of doors, cabinets, the floor. Twist my arms. It's something that I still hurt from.

...
I haven't read through all the rest of the posts yet, but I forgot to mention this also:

Sometimes abusive parents will assign their child a "disorder" to justify their abuse, when the child doesn't really have one. Please also take that into consideration. Even if she does have bipolar, as so many other posters mention, if she is in THAT MUCH of a danger to herself, she should be hospitalized, and if she was, the doctors and nurses would not be allowed to treat her the way her parents are.
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#64 of 81 Old 06-26-2007, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
I agree, if you replaced the word Teenager with "Wife" or "Toddler" the reactions would be EXTREMLY different. We live in a society that hates teenagers, and I don't really understand why.
Yes, it's true. :

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Originally Posted by gabysmom617 View Post
Sometimes abusive parents will assign their child a "disorder" to justify their abuse, when the child doesn't really have one.
Yes yes yes!!! I actually doubt she is bipolar. I acted bipolar as a teenager when I was in abusive homes. But I wasn't.


Calenandellasmomma, I'm so sorry for what happened to you.

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#65 of 81 Old 06-26-2007, 07:41 PM
 
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because I HAVE seen it make things worse where the officers were told that it was just an out of control teenager and been supportive of things like described here.
Once when we were looking for resources for my ds the officer said "have you tried just kicking his a##? That is all he really needs" and as many good things as there are where I live there are not so great things too.
At least by finding out what the mentality is in the area-the op can decide whether the police department or cps or the mental health authority ( I didn't see anyone mention that one..you can call here sometimes and get help, ) is the best way to go for the young girl.

And for the poster who said 'what if you were abused and no one called?' BTDT survived it and even the therapist that finally helped said it would have made things worse in my family ( which I knew) and for me...
Now that said I am NOT NOT NOT advocating not helping this girl-far from it so don't go off on me about it..

I am just suggesting the op test the waters. Because if she lives in an area where the police will side with the parents it could make things worse for the girl in the home when they leave....
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#66 of 81 Old 06-26-2007, 11:14 PM
 
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(((hug))) (((hug))) (((hug))) (((hug)))!!!

Heilsa!
I just wanted to say that! this kind of stress in your last trimester?! :

One thing I think to add, she is less than a year from independence. IF she gets put into the system, and IF she "runs away" steals a car" then she'll get a "record". If she leaves home on her own, maybe not. This all just sucks.

Everyone is right about calling the police, of course. Shaggy Daddy had an excellent point . And yet Cerridwen(Lorelei???) also, sadly, had a good point too. :

I think you've done a good thing, and I think if you see it again, that you know very well what to do. And kudos for telling them that you would!!! That was very respectable and brave!

Poor girl.

In frith! :
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#67 of 81 Old 06-26-2007, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, this is stressful! I am homebirthing in about 4 weeks and I am trying to deal with this in the safest and most responsible way that I can...

To everyone who have shared their own abuse stories...I am so sorry that this thread has triggered that for you... I am so sorry for the pain that you have gone through.:

I have contacted CPS and asked lots of questions. I am in touch with the family and speak with them every day. They were grateful for the letter and for the support. I believe that they are at a crossroads as a family. Thanks for everyones responses. I am giving this thread a rest for now...

Jessica
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#68 of 81 Old 06-27-2007, 12:43 AM
 
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If she IS bipolar and is a danger (to herself or to others) she can be ordered (by court) to be involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital.

But yes, CALL THE COPS if you see this. Take pictures, videos, get witnesses/statements together to prepare. If the cops come and nothing can be proven, chances are it's only going to get worse.

And personally (I'm not sure legally) I think the mother is just as responsible for NOT doing anything if the father is that abusive.
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#69 of 81 Old 06-27-2007, 01:03 AM
 
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#70 of 81 Old 06-27-2007, 01:08 AM
 
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If you're not going to report the abuse, can you tell someone else to call CPS or the cops for you? Is there anyone here on MDC that you could PM the address to so someone can report the abuse before that poor girl gets murdered or kills herself?

It's not your job to be mediating this abuse between the girl and her parents, but it is seriously and urgently your responsibility to report this abuse to the authorities now.

Please don't dilly-dally about calling CPS or the cops. Just call them. Stop wasting time by chatting with the parents to see "their side" of things. Choking minors and tying them to chairs is simply wrong and abusive. There is no need to "understand" the family situation better. The girl is being abused, and now that you know about it, you need to report it to the authorities today. It's as simple as picking up the phone and dialing.
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#71 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 01:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soybeansmama View Post
Yes, this is stressful! I am homebirthing in about 4 weeks and I am trying to deal with this in the safest and most responsible way that I can...

To everyone who have shared their own abuse stories...I am so sorry that this thread has triggered that for you... I am so sorry for the pain that you have gone through.:

I have contacted CPS and asked lots of questions. I am in touch with the family and speak with them every day. They were grateful for the letter and for the support. I believe that they are at a crossroads as a family. Thanks for everyones responses. I am giving this thread a rest for now...

Jessica
I am really trying to be respectful about what I am saying to you. But the thoughts that are going through my head!

What qualifactions do you posses that allow you to examine this situation and talk to the family yourself? Because I am just going to be blunt. By you not calling CPS and stepping away from the situation you are more than likely perpetuating the situation. Seriously. Calling CPS is your duty as a member of society. If you saw someone being murdered on the street, would you go over there and try to reason with the killer? Write him a letter about why he is doing it and that you are worried about it? I seriously doubt it. If you are homebirthing soon and want a safe enviorment, then why aren't you doing the proper thing?

It really, really gets my thumbs going when you see people post things like this on the internet asking for advice. We give the obvious suggestions and the OP tries to talk their way out of it. If you weren't planning on taking our advice, then why post?

Call CPS. Stop trying to "help" and REALLY help by calling CPS.
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#72 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 10:44 AM
 
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as a social worker and former cps investigator, cps needs to be involved. if the child is truly bipolar and out of control, if the family truly is just at their wits end, then cps can help get that child into a more appropriate environment (a hospital or res. tx center). but this is not your place to judge if cps should be involved or not. anyone SUSPECTING abuse or neglect should report. you don't have to know all the facts or be sure its abuse. thats cps' job.

i have made 100s of calls to cps because of my job (working primarily with children). i am a trained social worker, with additional training as a cps investigator. i still NEVER attempt to determine if the situation is abusive. if i SUSPECT abuse, i call. it is NOT my role to investigate the situation, and certainly as a caring neighbor, it is not your role.

i understand that sometimes cps can make things worse. but the benefits of calling here clearly outweigh the risks. being tied to a chair? a choke hold? she is a CHILD. would you have called the cops if you saw a man do this to her wife? even if she was bipolar? OF COURSE!!!!!!

and for further clarification, in the moment i would call the police. but if its the next day or any time later, just call cps. the cops arent going to come out unless its immediately occuring. but cps (at least where i worked) would have investigated that immediately. it is assault. i investigated a case where a dad slapped his 17 year old son AFTER his son slapped him. it was still investigated immediately upon receiving the report, it was still considered abuse- YOU CANNOT ASSAULT PEOPLE- and tying them to a chair is assault.
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#73 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 11:12 AM
 
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I would call CPS and not the cops.

As others have already said, cops are only going to document the incident and then pass the buck to CPS, anyway. Not only that, but they'll probably haul one or both parents off to jail, which doesn't really help anything in the long run. The family needs intervention, but not like that, IMO.

I had an abusive spouse a long time ago. The cops would come, arrest him, and let him go the next day so he could come home and do it again. The police are there for damage control, and that's it.
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#74 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by soybeansmama View Post
I have contacted CPS and asked lots of questions.

Jessica
she DID call CPS. obviously CPS should have said "we're coming out there now!!". but they didn't. that's not her fault.

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#75 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 11:59 AM
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Thank you for calling.
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#76 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 12:54 PM
 
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I'm a 'victim of things that are similiar like that & you know what the social work & cops did ??? The social worker actually ended up making me feel guilty about wanting to leave home. I ran away alot and called cops it was a invisible sight through it and the 'cruelty had got increased @ home. I was also dx with a bipolar but first before that it was adhd.


When I was little I was even pinned down to the bed during nite time with a dishtowel attached to my gown the towel pinned on the back 'stopped' working after i learned how to unpin myself that was when i was a toddler.


Plus, when my mom tried to teach me a lesson for not answering phones she faked herself as a guy stating that she was going to come & get us so I was so scared. I called the cops and my mom while i was babysitting my brother she was happy i called her but did not like the 'fact of the cops showed up'

So how do you think the cops reacted after all those crazy psycho lil girl stories to when I was an adult and actually had a 'peeping tom ' at my 2nd apartment ?

They didn't even show up til a guy from my supported living service said that there was a guy out there that he had to chase away.

Sheesh , then that happened 3 more times I couldn't count on the cops or even the neighbors because they were thinking they were hearing stuff that was farther down & we were in the neighborhood watch program plus I couldn't do the asking for living service to come become a risk of putting their staff in danger.
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#77 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 01:48 PM
 
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MommytoB

I am sad for the little girl that you were. Many people do want to help, as you can see here. Mamas do care about children, even those who they didn't birth. There is a lot of love being sent to the children who need it most. We can break the cycle as we learn to trust that people do care.


Pat

I have a blog.
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#78 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 08:07 PM
 
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First of all...
Quote:
Originally Posted by soybeansmama View Post
Wow...I wasn't asking if this was OK. Clearly it is not and clearly I am disturbed... This family does need help and I am desperatly trying to figure out how to do that

I just wrote her a letter and gave it to her rather than talking to her one on one. I gave the letter to her mom and told her that she could read it first. I watched her hand it to her daughter. I am making bread for them and will bring it over to them later. That will be a good opportunity for them to discuss things with me...
GOOD on you. "It takes a village" isn't just for cute little babies and grannies... teenagers need the Village too! You are being a concerned and loving friend and neighbor, and it's acts like this that give the rest of us hope in a world where so many just automatically look the other way without even considering intervention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
...if you replaced the word Teenager with "Wife" or "Toddler" the reactions would be EXTREMLY different. We live in a society that hates teenagers, and I don't really understand why.
The Why of it comes from the fact that teens are just children trying to be grown-ups, and that act can get pretty hairy. Maybe if more parents nurtured their children's innocense and honored their childhood, they wouldn't try to grow up so fast and drive everyone around them nuts with their efforts to be so grown-up.

But I totally agree, and there DOES need to be more understanding and patience with the teens...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617 View Post
About the not going to counseling thing, that's still not an excuse. They are the parents they can make an appointment, pick her up from school, and put her in the car and take her there. If nothing else, THEY can go to counseling alone without her (if she absolutely won't go) and learn for themselves how to deal with her without having to escalate to this point.

That "she won't go to counseling" is a flimsy excuse for an excuse.
Agreed... are her parents aware that this is an avenue worth their time and energy? What did CPS say about counseling??

Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
Person tied to chair. Call 911. If the authortieis dont do anything, at least *you* did the right thing. Asking us first is not the right thing. Pick up your phone. Period.
Many people wouldn't think twice about just looking the other way. The fact that soybean DID stop and think, and ask for consultation from a community of people I presume she looks to for support and insight is HUGE, and does not warrant criticism. I applaud anyone who is strong enough to question their own decision and be vulnerable enough to stop and look for insight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wytchywoman View Post
... call the police if you like, CPS will still be notified. Cops do not have the time or resources or authority to do anything more than write the report, foward it to a detective if necessary and then forward it to the county attorney's office.The cops job only is to determine if a crime has been committed, not to help a family with a problematic child. That is CPS's job.
And as much as many poeple have horror stories about CPS, they are the frontline when it comes to these kinds of situations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KristenandMadelein View Post
I think that you personally should not get involved. Unless you are trained on how to deal with situations like this, you could make it worse.

<snip>

Please call the cops.
Soybean already illustrated that these are neighbors with whom she feels some closeness and speaks to on a regular basis... Maybe scenarios like this would have a better chance of being resolved in a loving and compassionate manner if more people DID make it their personal business to intervene. I'm not suggesting she go over there with a weapon or anything, in the thick of trouble... but just what she did is a great start: availing herself as part of what could be considered a support network, at an opportune time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
I've been asked to edit my original post. Too bad.

In a nutshell.

If you (the general you) think that your rights as a parent are more important than the rights of an abused minor child, then clearly you have not grasped the concept of gentle discipline. If you can read about a child being dragged, being put in a chokehold, being tied to a chair, and think 'Hmph, Cops and CPS will just make it worse', you need to do some reading and some SERIOUS self-examination.

That attitude is no different than parents who say, "IT's my right to spank and nobody better interfere". Only, actually, 10x worse.

I could cry at some of the responses on this thread. I could seriously cry.
I liked this version... I am right there with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KristenandMadelein View Post
I am really trying to be respectful about what I am saying to you. But the thoughts that are going through my head!

What qualifactions do you posses that allow you to examine this situation and talk to the family yourself? Because I am just going to be blunt. By you not calling CPS and stepping away from the situation you are more than likely perpetuating the situation. Seriously. Calling CPS is your duty as a member of society. If you saw someone being murdered on the street, would you go over there and try to reason with the killer? Write him a letter about why he is doing it and that you are worried about it? I seriously doubt it. If you are homebirthing soon and want a safe enviorment, then why aren't you doing the proper thing?

It really, really gets my thumbs going when you see people post things like this on the internet asking for advice. We give the obvious suggestions and the OP tries to talk their way out of it. If you weren't planning on taking our advice, then why post?

Call CPS. Stop trying to "help" and REALLY help by calling CPS.
This is just out of hand. I'm shocked that anyone (here) would sit in judgement of another who sought consultation, like this. The OP came here out of need. Her neighbors are in need. And at some point, everyone is is need of insight, support, empathy, whathaveyou. This is NOT someone being murdered in the street. This is a friend, and a child... these are people that are NOT strangers and it goes beyond a societal obligation to intervene, crossing over into a personal obligation, when it's folks you know. You ask why even post? Turn it around... why would anyone post the "obvious" after it had been posted so many times already? Did you feel the op just needed a little more brow-beating? Did you feel better after calling her actions and motives into question?

Sheesh people.

I see people advocating for gentle discipline out one side of their mouth and then shaming and judging out the other side... it just bums me out.



soybean... I sincerely applaud you for your caring and efforts. You will hold a special place in that family's memory. Please let us know what transpires... what did CPS instruct you to do? Have you considered calling the Deptartment of Human Services child abuse hotline? What did your mother add?

My thoughts and prayers are with you...
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#79 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 08:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by elizawill View Post
she DID call CPS. obviously CPS should have said "we're coming out there now!!". but they didn't. that's not her fault.
"Calling CPS and asking lots of questions" does not necessarily mean that she filed a report. I can call CPS at any time and say I know family X, daughter A has bipolar and mom and dad are struggling and maybe doing some inappropriate things what should I do?"
That is not filing a report. To file a report you have to be willing to call with the intent to provide CPS with enough personal info to contact the family and investigate. You have to know the address of the family, the names and ages if at all possible of the people involved etc.... I did not get the impression that she reported it, she simply called and asked questions. If I am mistaken please let me know.

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#80 of 81 Old 06-29-2007, 09:35 PM
 
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i assume her questions with CPS were honest and explicit as to the same nature in which she posted here. CPS should have said, we need to file a report. we're coming out there asap. but they didn't. it's not her fault. i think everyone is jumping down this pregnant mama's throat like she cares less about this teenage girl, and imo, that's just not the case....not fair to her at all in my opinion.

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#81 of 81 Old 07-06-2007, 12:14 AM
 
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Is there any update on this situation?

I am really hoping that by now the abuse has been properly reported to CPS and that they are investigating it.
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