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Old 08-01-2007, 03:41 PM
 
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I don't see any way of keeping a toddler from standing on furniture without some kind of physical punishment, and I think physical punishment is worse than standing on furniture, therefore I let my daughter stand on furniture. I don't see at all how standing on furniture is such a big deal anyway.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:44 PM
 
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I don't see any way of keeping a toddler from standing on furniture without some kind of physical punishment, and I think physical punishment is worse than standing on furniture, therefore I let my daughter stand on furniture. I don't see at all how standing on furniture is such a big deal anyway.
How about "Couches are for sitting" and removing the stander? Every single time? If you catch it often enough and quickly enough they don't stand on the couch.

I think it's disrespectful and try to treat my own home as I would someone else's. I would be mortified to take my child for a visit somewhere and have them display the thinking that standing on someone else's furniture is okay.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:47 PM
 
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OldFashionedGirl: In my experience, some children will easily comply with sit-down rules (you did, according to your mom), and others will not, unless a parent is willing to be harshly disciplining. A 1 and 2 year old child is often simply not able to control his impulses and they are not meant to sit for long stretches.

The laughing at you was not nice, but seriously - for those of us who have parented a toddler, or four, it's kind of difficult to not question the validity of how *sure* you are about your opinion.
First of all, perhaps you're right, and a one or two year old is NOT intended to sit for long stretches. Then maybe you should consider getting a babysitter for them so EVERYONE can enjoy their meal. And I speak as a waitress, here. I've waited tables for over 10 years, so I assume that even if my opinions as a mom are invalid, that my opinion as a waitress must have some validity. It doesn't HAVE to be super busy for a server to trip over a kid running/walking around. Even if I there are only two other tables, someone is STILL waiting on those tables. What angers me the MOST about this is that 9 times out of 10, the parents who let their kids wander are the ones who get mad at the WAITRESS for not watching where she's going. How about watching your kid?

As for questioning the vailidty of my opinion as a parent...

Why, then, is it definately NOT okay for someone to say condesendingly to a pregnant woman planning a natural birth, "Oh, you'll change your mind and get an epidural"? Usually the person saying it has had at least one child. Why do we get mad at THAT person for being condescending and rude, but it's perfectly okay for people on here to judge a young mom because "what does she know"?

If my kids ever feel compelled to jump on furniture, I'll make sure to bring them to your house.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:48 PM
 
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None of the above.

My children know that I have rules that are in place no matter where we are. It would never be ok to wander around during meal times at our house, stand at the table, etc. You sit with us and eat. I also consider it dangerous and rude in a restaurant because of liability and the hot and sharp things that are around that aren't in my house.

Not to mention I find it very rude. I have had my hair pulled, food spit on me, etc. by children at other tables. I am spending $50 on a meal, I don't need to babysit someone else's kid and be used as a trash can, thanks. I hate people breathing down my neck behind me, so my kids are not allowed to stand and turn in a booth because it drives me nuts.

I have never used physical punishment to keep my kids in their seats. It's the rule. They respect that. Sometimes my youngest dd (2.5) stands up to eat at home because she's so darn short, but I just remind her that we sit on our butt, or knees if she needs to. But no standing. She has almost fallen backwards many times.

My kids are never allowed to stand or jump on any of our furniture. We used to have a jumping gym thing for indoors-when we had room-and that's ok. Or outside or with pillows (not mine!) layered on the floor. But never on the furniture. We don't have the money to replace it, and I don't like trips to the ER. My cousin was jumping on my bed when I was little, fell off (he was ~5), and severely hurt his eye. He had to have surgery and still has issues. Not cool, in my book. My kids won't die from not jumping on the furniture.

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Old 08-01-2007, 03:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OldFashionedGirl View Post
First of all, perhaps you're right, and a one or two year old is NOT intended to sit for long stretches. Then maybe you should consider getting a babysitter for them so EVERYONE can enjoy their meal. And I speak as a waitress, here. I've waited tables for over 10 years, so I assume that even if my opinions as a mom are invalid, that my opinion as a waitress must have some validity. It doesn't HAVE to be super busy for a server to trip over a kid running/walking around. Even if I there are only two other tables, someone is STILL waiting on those tables. What angers me the MOST about this is that 9 times out of 10, the parents who let their kids wander are the ones who get mad at the WAITRESS for not watching where she's going. How about watching your kid?

As for questioning the vailidty of my opinion as a parent...

Why, then, is it definately NOT okay for someone to say condesendingly to a pregnant woman planning a natural birth, "Oh, you'll change your mind and get an epidural"? Usually the person saying it has had at least one child. Why do we get mad at THAT person for being condescending and rude, but it's perfectly okay for people on here to judge a young mom because "what does she know"?

If my kids ever feel compelled to jump on furniture, I'll make sure to bring them to your house.
I agree. But I have never come across a child, myself (everyone is different, though!) who doesn't listen when you redirect and are consistent. You don't need to hurt your child to get them to listen to you.

But my kids aren't allowed to jump on furniture no matter where we are, so I will refrain from taking them somewhere they can.

My kids are 6.5, 5.5, and 2.5 and my brothers had the same rules when they are younger. They are teens, now. So did I. And trust me, docile is NOT a word I would use for them. They try to be respectful of rules, because I explain to them why and they trust me.

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I don't let my kids do any of those listed in the OP. Our "restaurant rules" are simply:

1. Stay in your seat.

2. Use your inside voice.

3. Be polite.


We review them in advance, talk about examples, and I give gentle reminders when necessary. I also bring lots of quiet table entertainment and we talk a LOT while we are waiting. All of my kids are very entertained by conversation and my undivided attention.

My kids have great restaurant behavior considering that we only go out every couple months at most, so it's not like they get to practice a lot.
That's what we do, too. I don't ignore my kids in the restaurant. I bring tons of crayons, books, paper, etc. They rarely get bored. If they get bored, it's because our food has taken forever, and you will probably find me in a worse mood than them.

We eat out a little more often because we visit family a lot. I am not afraid to take them to nice restaurants. My mother took me to nice restaurants when I was younger and I learned appropriate behaviour. My kids like good food, I'm not going to make them eat something like Burger King if there is a good "real" restaurant available. My kids love eating at Authentic Chinese and French restaurants.

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Old 08-01-2007, 04:13 PM
 
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That's what we do, too. I don't ignore my kids in the restaurant. I bring tons of crayons, books, paper, etc. They rarely get bored. If they get bored, it's because our food has taken forever, and you will probably find me in a worse mood than them.
Next time, you should ask the waitress if there's any way the kid's food can come out sooner. I know most places I've worked at, the kid's meals are smaller, so they can be ready long before the adult's meal. And I'm more than willing to bring out kid's food first if it keeps them from being cranky!
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:19 PM
 
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Next time, you should ask the waitress if there's any way the kid's food can come out sooner. I know most places I've worked at, the kid's meals are smaller, so they can be ready long before the adult's meal. And I'm more than willing to bring out kid's food first if it keeps them from being cranky!
I can't stand it when a server does this. I never ask them to bring food early for my DS. But once in a while it will just show up. Then my son is done eating just when my food arrives. Such a pain in the butt to play entertainer between bites. My kid and I eat at the same time when we go out to eat.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:22 PM
 
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OldFashionedGirl: In my experience, some children will easily comply with sit-down rules (you did, according to your mom), and others will not, unless a parent is willing to be harshly disciplining. A 1 and 2 year old child is often simply not able to control his impulses and they are not meant to sit for long stretches.

The laughing at you was not nice, but seriously - for those of us who have parented a toddler, or four, it's kind of difficult to not question the validity of how *sure* you are about your opinion.
I'm sorry if my other post offended you, this was my line of thinking but I didn't say it so nicely.

My mom says I was a very compliant child by nature. She has NO idea how lucky she was. My children? Not so much (must get it from their boat rocker dad ) : - so my initial thoughts of what my parenting would look like based on my mom's stories of "disciplining" me (which basically consisted of gently telling me something once or twice and me doing it and not needing to be reminded again in subsequent similar situations) turned out to not be effective at ALL for my own kids, who are not so compliant by nature. I am still gentle with them, but have to remind and explain things a LOT, and for my own sanity I let a lot more things 'go' than my mom did, in part because they do challenge so much that I have to pick and choose what's worth enforcing and what's not. So - other people's homes and out in public, yeah - no standing on stuff. But stuff at home? Meh. No big deal. And DS has no problem understanding the difference (DD is too young yet). I suppose I *could* keep him from standing on ANYTHING at home, but in the grand scheme it's not worth the energy when there are other issues I need to tackle. And beleive me, I have pretty high standards of public conduct and am one of the "stricter" GD parents on this board. Sometiems honoring the impulse by making an exception at home is the best way to discourage a behavior elsewhere, at least it is with my own kiddo.

Annnnnnnyway, just wanted to suggest to you to keep an open mind and heart about reconsidering things and keeping 'pick your battles' in mind, depending on your child's individual temperament and impulse control, which may be nothing like your own was as a child.

Sorry I didn't say it nicely the first time. Is there a "sorry" smiley?

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Old 08-01-2007, 04:23 PM
 
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yes, me too, artgoddess.

oldfashioned, I really don't understand your comparison. It's rude to undermine a woman's attempt to plan a natural birth. It's also rude to tell experienced mothers that you know better, when you've never done it!
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:44 PM
 
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:10 PM
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Oh, good grief. OFG, I've seen you throw out some real doozies, so I don't think you are in any position to be huffing about all offended.

I wasn't laughing at your assertion that you will not allow your children to stand on furniture (I don't allow mine to stand on restaurant booths either).

I was laughing at how you seemed to think it wasn't a big deal to thwart a willful toddler from doing the one thing that his little heart has always longed to do


It's not that easy. That's all I was laughing about. I was also remembering all my black-and-white pronouncments when my nearly three year old was a newborn. Ahhh...give it a few years, you'll learn, grasshopper
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:52 PM
 
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yes, me too, artgoddess.

oldfashioned, I really don't understand your comparison. It's rude to undermine a woman's attempt to plan a natural birth. It's also rude to tell experienced mothers that you know better, when you've never done it!
And it's not rude to attempt to undermine my desire to uphold what I consider to be basic standards of behavior?

As for the "doozies" (by which I assume you mean the many times when I've not been crunchy enough for most moms on this board) I've thrown out there, ThreeBeans, I'm not sure why that exempts me from feeling I have a valid opinion. I mean golly, keeping children from standing on furniture that is inteded for sitting...What an outrageous notion. It doesn't get more anti-AP than that:eyeroll:

The4ofus--you explained what you meant very well. I'm sorry for over-reacting. As long as you don't let your kids stand on MY couch, we're good
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:08 PM
 
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not standing on furniture is something that comes with age- my 15 yo does not go jumping on sofas even though it was allowed as a toddler.

i have issue with the "chairs are for sitting" thing- around here chairs are for sitting, for tentposts, for stools, for tunnels, turned upside down for animal cages.... i like to foster creativity of function....

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:15 PM
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A

As for the "doozies" (by which I assume you mean the many times when I've not been crunchy enough for most moms on this board) I've thrown out there, ThreeBeans, I'm not sure why that exempts me from feeling I have a valid opinion. I mean golly, keeping children from standing on furniture that is inteded for sitting...What an outrageous notion. It doesn't get more anti-AP than that:eyeroll:

You are clearly missing the salient point
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:28 PM
 
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You are clearly missing the salient point
Must be because I'm too young and inexperienced.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:31 PM
 
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I'm not even the one targeted, but a lot of people on here are being very rude and offensive to OldFashionedGirl. Seriously. Do we have to insult someone because they "haven't been a parent longer". Should that mean that those of us with 6 yo just shut up whenever anyone with an older child talks? Let's have some respect.

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Old 08-01-2007, 10:34 PM
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Must be because I'm too young and inexperienced.
You don't get it. I wasn't laughing at your RULE. It's a perfectly sensible rule. I have the same one. I was laughing because you seemed so "ladeedah, no big deal" about it. It was CUTE.

I predict in a year or so you will be posting a banging-your-head-against-a-brick-wall smiley as you try to figure out how to get your child to do something (or get your child NOT to do something!!!) that right now you can't even imagine being an issue.

I was laughing because that was ME three years ago Deep breath!
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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You don't get it. I wasn't laughing at your RULE. It's a perfectly sensible rule. I have the same one. I was laughing because you seemed so "ladeedah, no big deal" about it. It was CUTE.

I predict in a year or so you will be posting a banging-your-head-against-a-brick-wall smiley as you try to figure out how to get your child to do something (or get your child NOT to do something!!!) that right now you can't even imagine being an issue.

I was laughing because that was ME three years ago Deep breath!
Okay.

I'm AM the moron in this case.

I DID take a big breath, and I AM calmer now.

Just a little embarrassed : .

But my kids still won't stand on the furniture
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:09 PM
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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I wouldn't allow my kids to do any of those things. And if they couldn't stop themselves, we would leave. At the very least, we would take a walk outside to work off some energy.

I saw a sig here once that read, "We aren't raising children, we are raising adults." My children's right to satisfy their curiosity and express themselves ends when it endangers servers or disturbs other patrons.

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Old 08-02-2007, 02:35 AM
 
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not standing on furniture is something that comes with age- my 15 yo does not go jumping on sofas even though it was allowed as a toddler.

i have issue with the "chairs are for sitting" thing- around here chairs are for sitting, for tentposts, for stools, for tunnels, turned upside down for animal cages.... i like to foster creativity of function....

I llke the way you think. I had so much fun as a kid making forts from chairs & blankets. And lining them up for trains..lots of fun.

And I stand on my couch. It's the only way I can reach to clean my living room windows.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:48 AM
 
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i have issue with the "chairs are for sitting" thing- around here chairs are for sitting, for tentposts, for stools, for tunnels, turned upside down for animal cages.... i like to foster creativity of function....
You're right. During dinner, though, chairs are for sitting.

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Old 08-02-2007, 05:42 PM
 
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I've been known to let DS wander, BUT only when there's someone else with me to sit at the table so I can wander along behind him. I've gotten lots of smiles from people watching DS prance up and down the aisles singing along with the ambient music. Sometimes people will talk to him or he'll say hi to a kid and I have no problems with that. If he looks like he's going to bother someone, I take his shoulders and point him in a different direction and he usually finds something interesting to look at that way and we're good.

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Old 08-02-2007, 11:39 PM
 
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I love the game where my son jumps from the couch into my arms and makes a flying noise. The idea that furniture shouldn't be jumped on didn't even cr oss my mind!!! I would rather see my son joyful and use furniture in the creative way, then go thru power struggles to keep him prim and proper.

Not surprisingly, my DS does not stand or jump on the couch at other people's home. I think instictively he know not to do it.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:54 AM
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I love the game where my son jumps from the couch into my arms and makes a flying noise. The idea that furniture shouldn't be jumped on didn't even cr oss my mind!!! I would rather see my son joyful and use furniture in the creative way, then go thru power struggles to keep him prim and proper.

Not surprisingly, my DS does not stand or jump on the couch at other people's home. I think instictively he know not to do it.
Love it!!

Same with dd -- I really don't care for blanket all or nothing rules.... well, but I am one of those consensual living folks --- I just stood on my couch the other day to hang curtains and also jumped on it the other day when there was this MONSTER, tarantula sized (but not a tarantula) spider that wandered in that my husband saved ... Also, we cosleep so there has been more um...bouncing on our couch at different times than a toddler could ever do

Also, funny thing, my daughter has never jumped on anyone else's couch in her life -- though she can here with wild abandon (and has never ruined any furniture) -- The same way she has never taken anyone else's cell phone though we let her play with ours... or messed with anyone else's remote controls though she plays with ours.... the same way she doesn't rummage through other people's cabinets though she has free reign to play in ours (with pots and pans and such) -- We just explain to her that other people have different comfort levels and so and so is not comfortable with her doing X or Y in their space. Yes, some redirection has been needed but basically she gets it totally...

For what it's worth, I fear some parents here are setting up adversarial relationships with their children from birth over things that really don't matter in the long run. It takes A LOT to ruin a couch by standing or jumping on it ... and is something so arbitrary where you want to draw your line in the sand.

Our daughter is only two and believe me I got the "you just wait" comments and I resented the hell out of them -- and yes, in many ways I have stuck to my ideals... deep seated core beliefs about respecting her and her autonomy and not vaccinating and things of that nature... but I will tell you there are LOTS of times the "you just waits" came to pass and I laughed my head off...

So it is time to pass the torch to some new mamas...

Think your toddler will calmly get off a couch at your request?



"You just wait"
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:46 AM
 
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I love the game where my son jumps from the couch into my arms and makes a flying noise.


My son no longer wants me to catch him. So he signs "back up" over and over. One day I was backing up until I got to the door. He signed, "back up" I said, "where do you want me to go?"
He signed, "outside!! "

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Old 08-03-2007, 02:41 AM
 
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Love it!!


Also, funny thing, my daughter has never jumped on anyone else's couch in her life -- though she can here with wild abandon (and has never ruined any furniture) -- The same way she has never taken anyone else's cell phone though we let her play with ours... or messed with anyone else's remote controls though she plays with ours.... the same way she doesn't rummage through other people's cabinets though she has free reign to play in ours (with pots and pans and such) -- We just explain to her that other people have different comfort levels and so and so is not comfortable with her doing X or Y in their space. Yes, some redirection has been needed but basically she gets it totally...

For what it's worth, I fear some parents here are setting up adversarial relationships with their children from birth over things that really don't matter in the long run. It takes A LOT to ruin a couch by standing or jumping on it ... and is something so arbitrary where you want to draw your line in the sand.

Our daughter is only two and believe me I got the "you just wait" comments and I resented the hell out of them -- and yes, in many ways I have stuck to my ideals... deep seated core beliefs about respecting her and her autonomy and not vaccinating and things of that nature... but I will tell you there are LOTS of times the "you just waits" came to pass and I laughed my head off...

So it is time to pass the torch to some new mamas...

Think your toddler will calmly get off a couch at your request?



"You just wait"

I agree with you Captain Crunchy. In my humble opinion, like you said: it takes a lot to ruin a couch, but it doesn't take much to lose a connection, trust and enjoinment with your child over things that really don't matter that much in the long run.


On another note, I have no idea how most moms toddlers here can sit thru dinner without getting up and taking a walk. I'm still working on that.
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hipumpkins View Post


My son no longer wants me to catch him. So he signs "back up" over and over. One day I was backing up until I got to the door. He signed, "back up" I said, "where do you want me to go?"
He signed, "outside!! "
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:13 AM
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I would let a kid wander if the restaurant only had 2-3 other diners. How many piled-high trays could they be carrying? But ftmp, I don't let my kids wander because of safety, as many have said.

Yes, they can stand on the couch.

OldFashionedGirl: In my experience, some children will easily comply with sit-down rules (you did, according to your mom), and others will not, unless a parent is willing to be harshly disciplining. A 1 and 2 year old child is often simply not able to control his impulses and they are not meant to sit for long stretches.

The laughing at you was not nice, but seriously - for those of us who have parented a toddler, or four, it's kind of difficult to not question the validity of how *sure* you are about your opinion.
Again, 7 kids - no standing on furniture (and no, as you implied, draconian punishments, or heck, even mild ones were needed.) I find it odd that so many folks (not you personally, in general) seem to find it so difficult to get their kids to follow rules and assume that those that do are automatons or being beaten with waffle irons.
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:17 AM
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How about "Couches are for sitting" and removing the stander? Every single time? If you catch it often enough and quickly enough they don't stand on the couch.

I think it's disrespectful and try to treat my own home as I would someone else's. I would be mortified to take my child for a visit somewhere and have them display the thinking that standing on someone else's furniture is okay.
Yup. This happens ALL THE TIME with some friends of ours. They sometimes, mildly, say "oh preshus, Ms. Best doesn't allow standing on the furniture" or walking on the dining room table, or climbing the 3-story high banister above the catwalk, etc.). Other times they won't even say anything, and my husband and I have to. It's rude, rude, rude, but I don't blame the kids -- they do it at home, after all. Coincidentally,(?) their house is a sty
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