Do you let your kids say, "hate"? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-03-2007, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The peas, though, the peas don't give a f**ck if you hate them. So why would I care if you say that!

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Old 08-03-2007, 10:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
I am curious as to how the pps who said they *don't allow* the word hate or for their children to even FEEL hated are monitoring their children's thoughts or even words?
honestly...if your question is for me in any shape or form, i'm not even going to answer you, you obviously never read all of my posts, and it's completely a waste of my time to keep typing the same thing over and over and over

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Old 08-03-2007, 10:48 AM
 
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Our goal is not control, but understanding and coming together to create solutions that are mutually agreeable to everyone in our family while still honoring the comfort level and moral code of each individual.
Just because one sets boundaries doesn't mean their goal is control. I think it's noble to do the whole "mutually agreeable to everyone in our family" consenual living thing. It intrigues me but it's not for me. My child is just that, a child, and while I don't think he is ill willed, he does not have the life experience to always know what is best for him so I parent him. I don't think that it's oppressive - I think it's my job.

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Old 08-03-2007, 11:38 AM
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I set boundaries but that is the difference... I set boundaries for myself and advocate for myself that those boundaries are honored. One of the greatest lessons I could ever empart to my child (imo) is the ability to set her own personal boundaries and help her learn to enforce said boundaries while honoring the boundaries of others.

Are you suggesting that because we live consensually that we don't "parent" dd? If you are using the world "parent" interchangably with the word "control" I suppose we don't "parent" like your family
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:51 PM
 
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I usually provide some sort of expansion when my 4 y/o says he "hates" something, both to validate what he's feeling and also to provide him with other ways of expressing what he feels. Stuff like "you sound very angry" or "it really, REALLY bothers you when your brother does that," or "it's frustrating when the pieces don't fit together the way you want them to."
This is what I do, too. Personally, I think "hate" is too often used to express feelings that aren't actually hate. I'd prefer my son be more in touch with his feelings. I also feel like words with such intense power shouldn't be used lightly. I don't ban it, but I do try to get to the bottom of the comment and give him other, more meaningful ways of expressing things. But, hey, if it turns out that he actually does hate something, then so be it.

The only word I've banned in my house is "stupid" (in relation to both people and objects). It just came to that. It's a major trigger word for me and I feel like it serves no purpose except to denigrate. There are also 10 million and one less offensive and more productive ways to say it.
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:55 PM
 
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i agree it was an exaggerated example, but you asked, why is it wrong to let a child hate someone? hate can grow into many things. and let me ask you, how is it beneficial to teach a child it is okay to hate someone? People can do wrong things to me all day long, but only I can control my reactions and feelings. I was abused by my uncle as a child and I have every reason to feel justified in hating him....but it is NOT beneficial to me at all and I have worked very hard to let that go. Hate is like cancer to the soul imo.

Love is not unhealthy. People do thing in the name of love that have nothing to do with love. People do things out of hatred because they hate.
...

I agree with what eliza said...although...learning that hating someone isn't beneficial to your spiritual growth comes little later in your life. I think 7 or 8 is little too young to understand that. I started to realize that hating someone was holding ME back and making ME rehash negative emotions in me throughout my life. It wasn't fun and it wasn't helpful to me. I let it go, and it feels better that way. And when I say hate, I don't mean like I disliked or I was angry....I mean I hated someone like I wanted to go find that someone and kill him and mutilate his body kind of hate.....
Although I wouln't "ban" the word in my household, we would definitely talk about what someone is actually feeling when they say, "hate."
Words are powerful and they do work into your subconsiousness...
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:10 PM
 
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I think most of us are saying the same thing...just coming from different perspective. There is varied definition of word, "hate," and varied emotions, feelings and intentions behind it as well.

For example, when people say they hate peas, they would mean they dislike the taste, right??(or maybe they do hate peas, like they want to destroy all the pea farms....but I wouldn't know)
And that's obviously different from hating someone to the guts like it poisons you every time you think about them.
semantics semantics...
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
I set boundaries but that is the difference... I set boundaries for myself and advocate for myself that those boundaries are honored. One of the greatest lessons I could ever empart to my child (imo) is the ability to set her own personal boundaries and help her learn to enforce said boundaries while honoring the boundaries of others.
What does that even mean? Sorry, I don't follow in terms of boundaries v control. So you set boundaries for yourself and by example your dc will learn to do the same?


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Are you suggesting that because we live consensually that we don't "parent" dd? If you are using the world "parent" interchangably with the word "control" I suppose we don't "parent" like your family
No I wasn't saying that at all and I hope I am mistaken when I say I think your tone was snide. I said that I didn't think setting boundaries = control. I meant parent in the sense that SOMEONE does have to be "in charge". Whether you like that word or not. We all love our kids and want them to feel validated. But the truth is we will not know whether or not we have been successful for a while. So the "I'm right and you're wrong and unenlightened" tone I often read on this board is pointless. I wish everyone would view it more as information sharing rather than an trying to rip people apart.

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Old 08-03-2007, 04:20 PM
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My apologies for the perceived snide tone -- but I am having trouble understanding... why does someone have to be "in charge" ... no one is "in charge" in our home... we all get our needs met and *most* of our wants if humanly possible (I can't for example, set up a mutually agreeable solution where our daughter gets to go to the moon right now but I can help create a fantasy or imaginative situation to help get that desire met)...


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What does that even mean? Sorry, I don't follow in terms of boundaries v control. So you set boundaries for yourself and by example your dc will learn to do the same?

Yes, personal boundaries are different than setting boundaries for someone else. Yes, many boundaries are collectively held and agreed upon (such as most people don't consent to being hit) which is what I tell dd... but almost always, I inform her of my personal boundaries in any given situation --

With regard to the conversation at hand, I wouldn't place value judgments on the word "hate". I would tell her I don't like the word hate and I don't feel positively toward someone who says they hate me. I would tell her I don't like being spoken to in that way and ask that she express herself to me in a way where we can both be heard and validated (of course, modifying language for where she is in her development) ...

(she has never used the word hate but then she is only two, though extremely verbal)

However, I would never say to her "we don't use that term" or "we don't do this or that" -- I would tell her what I do or don't do... or do or don't like, and explain to her how most people *generally* feel about that term and how *many* people *may* feel when confronted with it...

Similarly, if she chose to ignore all that (doubtful, as she trusts my counsel but it could happen) and say "I DON'T CARE... I HATE YOU!!!!!" (after all the discussion above) I would tell her I love her but choose not to converse with people who speak to me in that manner -- I wouldn't ignore or shame or isolate her, but I would let her know that one of my boundaries is that I believe I deserve to be spoken to respectfully. I would tell her she has a right to her feelings but I have a right to live peacefully -- maybe she can create a story about a mean mama who she hates Maybe she can draw a picture of what hate looks like to her

I don't give my daughter an occasion to hate me so I feel pretty safe about it

If she "hates" other people, she will soon learn (if she chooses not to follow my counsel or information) that people don't want to be around people who hate them and then a natural consequence will present itself (mama told me this may happen but I wanted to try it out for myself and now Johnny won't play with me, and I don't like that.. let me brainstorm ways with mama or daddy about how to rectify that) ...

It is more an organic process that way in my opinion rather than just "we don't hate people around here" or "don't say that word" type parenting which I don't adhere to.
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Old 08-03-2007, 05:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
My apologies for the perceived snide tone -- but I am having trouble understanding... why does someone have to be "in charge" ... no one is "in charge" in our home... we all get our needs met and *most* of our wants if humanly possible (I can't for example, set up a mutually agreeable solution where our daughter gets to go to the moon right now but I can help create a fantasy or imaginative situation to help get that desire met)...
So you are not "in charge" but you have the final say in what is "mutually agreeable" - seems like semantics to me. But I respect that this works for your family.

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Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
Yes, personal boundaries are different than setting boundaries for someone else. Yes, many boundaries are collectively held and agreed upon (such as most people don't consent to being hit) which is what I tell dd... but almost always, I inform her of my personal boundaries in any given situation --

With regard to the conversation at hand, I wouldn't place value judgments on the word "hate". I would tell her I don't like the word hate and I don't feel positively toward someone who says they hate me. I would tell her I don't like being spoken to in that way and ask that she express herself to me in a way where we can both be heard and validated (of course, modifying language for where she is in her development) ...

(she has never used the word hate but then she is only two, though extremely verbal)

However, I would never say to her "we don't use that term" or "we don't do this or that" -- I would tell her what I do or don't do... or do or don't like, and explain to her how most people *generally* feel about that term and how *many* people *may* feel when confronted with it...

Similarly, if she chose to ignore all that (doubtful, as she trusts my counsel but it could happen) and say "I DON'T CARE... I HATE YOU!!!!!" (after all the discussion above) I would tell her I love her but choose not to converse with people who speak to me in that manner -- I wouldn't ignore or shame or isolate her, but I would let her know that one of my boundaries is that I believe I deserve to be spoken to respectfully. I would tell her she has a right to her feelings but I have a right to live peacefully -- maybe she can create a story about a mean mama who she hates Maybe she can draw a picture of what hate looks like to her

I don't give my daughter an occasion to hate me so I feel pretty safe about it

If she "hates" other people, she will soon learn (if she chooses not to follow my counsel or information) that people don't want to be around people who hate them and then a natural consequence will present itself (mama told me this may happen but I wanted to try it out for myself and now Johnny won't play with me, and I don't like that.. let me brainstorm ways with mama or daddy about how to rectify that) ...

It is more an organic process that way in my opinion rather than just "we don't hate people around here" or "don't say that word" type parenting which I don't adhere to.
I have worked with kids my whole life and I feel that this way COULD be confusing to some. Kids like definates and often thrive in an environment of more clear cut expectations. Once at a professional development workshop a presenter was talking about how the most ADD kid could sit and play a video game for hours - it would keep his attention. And in that situation he knew the consequences of his actions - if my guy goes over this cliff I lose a "man" or whatever (can you tell I am not into gaming? ) Anyway, it is just my opinion that if everything is up for negotiation it will take a child that much longer to really learn where the boundaries are.
We actually agree more than we disagree because I am not in the "we don't say" that camp either. I would rather discuss the reasons why ( like you nicely explained with the "but that makes so and so feel.." ) But I will have the final say as the parent in what is and is not acceptable behavior.
I just think there are some things that are not up for negotiation.
But thats just me I appreciate you taking the time to clarify.

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Old 08-03-2007, 06:11 PM
 
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I too think the important thing is to make sure the child understands that it isn't generally ok to "hate" people. It is ok to hate what someone did or said, but to actually hate someone? I find that is and should be pretty rare. I also think in most cases when people hate and even when they don't like a person, they often really don't like what they did or said and should realize that because it is very possible to love someone but hate/dislike something they did or said. I know my husband can really piss me off at times, but I always love him

So I don't think it is something I would forbid, but I would be sure to teach them to use the word appropriately.

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Old 08-03-2007, 06:19 PM
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So you are not "in charge" but you have the final say in what is "mutually agreeable" -

See, now that is just ridiculous. I only used an example where a mutually agreeable solution may not be able to be reached -- such as my daughter wanting to GO TO THE MOON... if you are going to take such an extreme example of not being able to provide my child with a way to LITERALLY...go..to..the..MOON... as me controlling what is mutually agreeable, then there is really nothing left to say.

However you want to handle things in your home (with sole respect to the word hate in this discussion) is your business, but it seem quite out of this world (pardon the pun) to suggest that I control my child because I can't literally take her, at this time, TO THE MOON.

Sheesh...

Oh and we disagree on one other thing. I don't think my words or actions or my child's "make" anyone feel a certain way. I think people can choose how to feel in *almost* any given circumstance.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:46 PM
 
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See, now that is just ridiculous. I only used an example where a mutually agreeable solution may not be able to be reached -- such as my daughter wanting to GO TO THE MOON... if you are going to take such an extreme example of not being able to provide my child with a way to LITERALLY...go..to..the..MOON... as me controlling what is mutually agreeable, then there is really nothing left to say.
You are totally misunderstanding me. I wasn't referring at all to your example. I was talking more about CL in general. Maybe I should have quoted your post differently. I was saying that although you don't call it "in charge" you DO in fact have the final say in what is "mutually agreeable" no?


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However you want to handle things in your home (with sole respect to the word hate in this discussion) is your business, but it seem quite out of this world (pardon the pun) to suggest that I control my child because I can't literally take her, at this time, TO THE MOON.

I never started using the word "control" until you said control and boundaries were equivocal and were snide about me saying that it's my job to parent (you said parent = control). So yeah sheesh... I don't really know where you got that.



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Oh and we disagree on one other thing. I don't think my words or actions or my child's "make" anyone feel a certain way. I think people can choose how to feel in *almost* any given circumstance.
What made you think that we disagree there?

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Old 08-03-2007, 07:28 PM
 
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My ds can say whatever he wants. If I think his words are having a negative impact, I discuss it with him.
We don't censor speech in our home. My 6 year old son just seems to know what is appropriate for other people to hear outside the house. I'm thankful for that since he goes to public school and some things can be a "problem" with them at school. Like the time he corrected a little girl when she said the baby came out of her mom's tummy and he said "for the most part babies come from vaginas but if your mom has a cut on her stomach then the baby came from there." His teacher said she tried to head off the conversation but I told her not to do that to him. It was wrong to do so.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:38 PM
 
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My kids are *only* allowed to say hate if it's about Walmart or War. Those are our rules. They can use other terms for anger and dislike, but hate is reserved for more philosophical reasons.

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Old 08-03-2007, 08:00 PM
 
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My kids are *only* allowed to say hate if it's about Walmart or War.
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Old 08-03-2007, 08:43 PM
 
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have you ever heard of hate crime? people literally hate others for their sexual preference, color of their skin, religion, and the list literally NEVER ends. WHY would you teach a child it is acceptable to hate anyone? seriously, i am blown away.
I am with you on how awful hate crime is. But we differ in that a child (or adult) hating peas or hating hot weather or hating having blood drawn - or even hating her sister at the moment is her true and honest feeling at that moment. I am ok with that being expressed, and we discuss it.

My mom would go nuts if I said I hated my sister. "No you don't!!! You love her!!! She is your SISTER!!!" Um, ok, now I hate her even more because you aren't hearing how angry I am. I will just sit here and hate her silently, and stew in the anger - instead of it diffusing if she'd said what I tell my kids - "wow, sounds like you are really mad!! What happened?"

She was a really great mom, but hate was a trigger word for her. Which I understand as I have my own trigger words (we don't say fat or stupid at my house). Difference being that those are insults. Hate is an emotion.

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Dp's mom doesn't allow lots of words because her religious belief is that they have power. So, one cannot refer to the low spot in the trunk where the tire sits as a "depression" because one cannot say the word depression, lest one become depressed. One cannot say one "loves" a thing or activity because love is only for people and God. One cannot say "hate." One cannot say something or someone is "perfect" because only God is perfect.
Oh, that would make me absolutely : I would seriously have a hard time censoring myself that much for too long.

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Wow, are you seriously equating "hating" something or someone, with hating someone just because of their sexual preference/color of skin/religion/etc?

yes, i seriously am. i'm not using the word "hate" out of context at all. that is hate.
Well, you can hate someone because they killed your brother. That is different than hating someone because they are gay. First is justified, and for a specific reason about a specific person (though still damaging to you to carry around that hate). Second is about an entire group of people, and is just plain wrong. The root of hating the murderer isn't racist or homophobic; the root of it is that he took away someone very precious to you.

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Hate is like cancer to the soul imo.
I agree with you. I heard that carrying hate for someone is like taking poison and hoping the other person dies. It is so true.

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Saying to me 'I hate my cousin" to me, not in hearing range of cousin, is experssing your feelings only. That is fine.

Saying TO the cousin "I hate you" is allowing your feelings to hurt someone else.

YOu are allowed in my home to express whatever feelings you have. I do expect though that you are not deliberately unkind to others and that includes saying mean things to them.
Exactly the same here.
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:44 PM
 
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Kirsten, I also stated this:

I can think of many people that I strongly dislike (you might even say hate! gasp) and it has absolutely nothing to do with any of those things.

Of course you can hate someone and it not be tied at all to being a racist or homophobic, or fill in the blank ....but is the root of your emotion (not the reason) all that different?

regarding your previous quote from me , the above quote which you omitted was my only point. even if i hate someone who murdered my brother -- it's no more beneficial to holding onto that than a person who holds onto hatred for a gay person. either way it is poisonous. i never equated hate to things - i only ever addressed hate toward people. if you take excerpts from what i say, but don't look at all of my posts - it can easily be misunderstood. please just read all of my posts here....if you still disagree - so be it. i'm not bothered by it at all. but i have shared my opinions, and have read everyone elses & i assume we are all saying the same underlying thing. this thread is now more af an argument between people that sounds a lot like this to me

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Old 08-04-2007, 03:27 AM
 
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We just went over to our 90 y.o. neighbor's house tonight and my dd said, "I hate Rocky!" She was referring to my IL's dog. I was kind of embarrassed, but not sure what to say. I told her that hurts Rocky's feelings, except that's kind of lame to say since I'm sure it doesn't actually hurt his feelings.

My niece's daycare provider has the kids say "I don't care for..." instead of "I hate..." I need to teach that one to dd. I remember my niece correcting her uncle when he said "That stinks!" My niece told him to say, "I don't care for the smell of that."
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Old 08-04-2007, 06:27 AM
 
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Yes, but then my kids can say the F word too so I am not sure how much that helps you.

If they were saying "I hate you xyz person!" I might share that it could be hurtful to hear those words, and maybe help them explore their anger and/or another way to share what they are feeling.

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Old 08-04-2007, 10:16 AM
 
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Yes, but then my kids can say the F word too so I am not sure how much that helps you.

If they were saying "I hate you xyz person!" I might share that it could be hurtful to hear those words, and maybe help them explore their anger and/or another way to share what they are feeling.
Yes, this is us, too.

I use the word "hate" all the time. Just in a casual, not-intense-hatred kind of way. I just like it.

But, I have also chosen to make an effort to not carrry resentment, anger, and "true" hatred in my life. Because for me, it is corrosive.

But I can't make that decision for my kids. Maybe anger and hate don't affect them the same way. Maybe what they feel as "hate" isn't the same as how I experience "hate."

And maybe, like me, they will need to go through a period of time where they try on "hate" and "bitterness" for size and realize that it is causing them enough discomfort to try to rid themselves of them.

Who knows?

But I don't think any of that happens--or not--by telling my kids that they can't say the word "hate." I find that dictating words like that can be very easily construed as shutting down the expression of feelings (like a pp mentioned about, "GASP! Of course you don't HATE your sister!") or even as shaming for kids who wonder, "Well, I think I DO feel hate. What's wrong with me for feeling that?!"

I've sort of trained myself to hear my kids' use of "hate" as "I'm really, really angry." And so I try to reflect that back to them in the moment.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:05 PM
 
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Itll happen
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:55 PM
 
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well, this subject is bringing quite a few strong thoughts and emotions - still I would like to add my opinion - which is not really tied to strong emotions as far as the word hate goes:

We don't ban words in our house. It does not make sense to me. I believe our world problems with HATE have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual word. It is a learned/taught behavior that grows with ignorance.

We also use Non-Violent Communication, we talk about our feelings and take responsibility for them. My son has at times or great frustration told me he hates me. (I also was surprised to find this does not hurt my feelings - it is just a word conveying a message.) We talk, we get to the root of the problem - why he is angry/frustrated/sad and deal with it. I don't let that word become the problem or the focus. There is a real reason behind using this WORD - that is the important part. If we focus on the WORD we loose sight of what is really going on.

I believe as parents it is our responsibility to raise our own children's awareness of the beauty and wonder and sanctity of life. We need to raise them up to be a better generation who communicate for the better of everyone. We should not continue the cycle of being stuck by words and actions that lead to fear.

Just my opinion, not a judgment of others!

-Sara, working Mom to Fletcher (2003) and Magnolia (2008):, wife to Jim the best SAHD in the world (1999) NVC has changed my life
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:14 PM
 
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We use other words for common dislikes - "i don't care for red grape juice, i want white instead please", "i don't like Damien today, he wasn't nice to me", that sort of thing. We reserve "hate" for serious stuff, which honestly we never really encounter. I like this, b/c it helps my oldest find gentler words to express his anger, and if he does need strong, serious words, he can use them. Sort of like saving the big guns for the big deals.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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growing up, we weren't allowed to say "bad words" as well as the word "hate." we weren't really punished if we did but of 5 the kids in the fam, i think it was rarely ever said. in my opinion, it made me look at the impact of my words at such a young age and think at a deeper level than most of my peers.


 

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Old 08-07-2007, 05:32 PM
 
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Do you let your kids say, "hate"?
Depends on the context. "I hate vegetables"? Sure. "I hate my sister"? Nope. "I hate how she treats me", "I hate how she changes channels", I hate how she won't let me..." are okay. "I hate HER"? Not. They are both old enough to find alternate ways of expressing their anger. Because the fact is - they DON'T hate one another.

But then.... I don't let them say "shut up", either.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:51 PM
 
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There were so many words I wasn't allowed to say when growing up that I swore that I would never censor my children. Hate was one of those words. The thing is my mother never gave me a reason why I couldn't say it. Her answer was always, "Because I said so."

I don't really use the word. I don't think I've ever used it around my dd (who is 4). It has come up. She asked me what it meant about a month ago. She asked me what it meant and I asked her where she heard it and what the context was. She told me that her teacher said, "I hate peas." Before I could tell her what it meant, she told ME that it means you don't like something.

I told her that she was right, but that HATE is a stronger way to say that you don't like something. Not sure if she understood, but as she picked the cheese off her pizza, she said, "I...don't like cheesy things," with a sly grin.

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Old 08-07-2007, 05:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by olliepop View Post
There were so many words I wasn't allowed to say when growing up that I swore that I would never censor my children. Hate was one of those words. The thing is my mother never gave me a reason why I couldn't say it. Her answer was always, "Because I said so."
Lame response from Mom, IMO. I've told mine that it's a very strong word, and one that can be very hurtful to people. So we need to be careful how we use it in reference to others.
Because generally we may be angry at people, but it's their actions we hate - not them. And some words, once they're said to someone, can be hard to take back.
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:08 PM
 
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I applaud those who recognize that when a little person tries out the word hate, he/she doesn't understand what it really means, or that there are much better words to describe strong feelings.

I haven't read everything here but I think it's like anything else that's new for them and they need a patient adult to sit them down and say "Really? Tell me why you feel that way?"

Then, once you've diagnosed the underlying situation, you can say, "Hate is a very strong word and it hurts people. Maybe next time ____ happens, you can say 'When you say/do ____, I feel [hurt, angry, sad, etc.]; because [situation] seems like ____ to me.' Then they can have a chance to understand you and make things right. Isn't that what you really want?" and teach them people skills they can use productively for the rest of their lives.

And most importantly you won't roadblock their learning to express their true feelings by simply banning that word "Hate".
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:35 PM
 
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Lame response from Mom, IMO.
I was also not allowed to whistle. Apparently whistling was only for boys. Wanna know why? "Because I said so."

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