The psychologist told me i have to let him CIO - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i can totally respect the fact that we all have different views on CIO , i am just stating that MY opinion is,i will not leave my baby with someone who he doesnt feel comfortable with (regardless of who that is) until he is older and can communicate a bit better. i do not see that my baby clawing at the door, whimpering "mama" over and over again, his way of communicating... of course i know i cant keep him from crying all the time. But i do feel that leaving a child with someone, who he doesnt feel secure with, and letting him cry is not the answer for us. When the time comes, i will stay with him while he is adjusting to that other person, until he feels confident enough with them that i can leave and not have to worry about him screaming for an hour after i am gone. Like i already said, I tried it once, he cried the whole time i was gone, and that is it, im not doing it again, because it made me feel like i was abandoning him, i can imagine how he percieved it at only a year old.

Yes , we all as moms need that time to ourselves every once in awhile, but i think after i had kids, i realized that it is important to just take advantage of that time when it comes (baby sleeping, playing nicely/occupied, etc) instead of planning on it. at least not until they are a little older.
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#62 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thank you for all the articles and info mamas. i am going to read through everything, and drop a letter off to her next week when i go back. even if she doesnt take it seriously, at least i will know that i tried.
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#63 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 08:59 PM
 
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I was told by my sil that I had to let my 6mo cio in order to strengthen his back muscles. Seriously. I ignored her, as well. My DS had severe reflux to the point that, when he did cry, he vomited, as many as 6 times a day, so CIO was not an option. I changed his diet and made huge strides in his attachment to me. I came to realize that he cried because he was scared of throwing up and seeing me leave made him cry, which made him throw up. Of course, this may not be the case with you, but it might be. Also, because he went to the bathroom with me all the time, he understood how to use the potty very quickly. Hang in there.
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#64 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 09:12 PM
 
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Alexysmommy -- For what it's worth, I used a neighbor as a mother's helper when my high-need dd was a babe (8 months old, maybe?). I have this distinct memory of sitting with my dd on my lap for the entire two hours I was paying the mother's helper for. I did that for two or three weeks. Luckily this young girl was wonderful and really tried to engage my dd. After 3 or 4 weeks, things got much, much better because the attachment had started to the mother's helper. It was totally worth the time I put in because I used that mothers' helper for 4 years and now she can sometimes babysit for us because she is older. My dd learned to ADORE the time with the helper. There are definitely gentle ways to desensitize a child to strangers and other issues. (don't ask me how long it took me to get my child from being terrified of a bath...)
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#65 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have this distinct memory of sitting with my dd on my lap for the entire two hours I was paying the mother's helper for. I did that for two or three weeks.

There are definitely gentle ways to desensitize a child to strangers and other issues.
that sort of thing is exactly what i will be trying, thank you!!!!
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#66 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 11:10 PM
 
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I don't know about the OP but I would never feel comfortable forcing my child to get used to not being with me. I can't even begin to imagine leaving them somewhere where they cry for half an hour twice a week for a month! The fact that you put "LOL" in regards to that is really, really disturbing to me. This is an attachment parenting board right? I'm glad you feel that choice was good for you but for me that would just never happen.
My older daughter didn't like to be away from me when she was little. I still left her with her dad, and with her grandparents, for short periods of time, starting around 6 months when she was reliably going a couple of hours between nursing. I don't believe AP has to mean that MOM has to do everything. To me, it means a loving adult responding to a child's needs. My daughter learned that there are other adults she can trust, her grandparents, her daddy. This is a positive thing, IMO.

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#67 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 11:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alexysmommy View Post



thanks for the advice, but really IMO, you are practicing CIO, and that is what i am trying to avoid.
I think a baby crying in daddy's loving arms is VERY far from CIO.

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#68 of 151 Old 08-18-2007, 11:36 PM
 
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Yes! Never talk to the ped about non-medical problems. "How's he sleeping?" "Great!" "How's he eating?" "Great!"

Also, you master the "smile and nod" technique. "Now that your baby is 6 months, you need to introduce cereal." Smile and nod. "Your baby is a year now, so wean him since there's no benefit to continuing nursing." Smile and nod. "Make sure your baby is sleeping in his own bed." Smile and nod.
A corollary to the "bean dip" technique
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#69 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 12:22 AM
 
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My older daughter didn't like to be away from me when she was little. I still left her with her dad, and with her grandparents, for short periods of time, starting around 6 months when she was reliably going a couple of hours between nursing. I don't believe AP has to mean that MOM has to do everything. To me, it means a loving adult responding to a child's needs. My daughter learned that there are other adults she can trust, her grandparents, her daddy. This is a positive thing, IMO.
Yes but you are talking about daddy and grandparents - that is different. The poster I was referencing left her with complete strangers.

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#70 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think a baby crying in daddy's loving arms is VERY far from CIO.
thats great, but i wasnt talking about "daddys loving arms" . This post wasnt really for advice on what you all consider CIO....
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#71 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 02:56 AM
 
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I'm so glad that you are wise enough to fall for that. I cant understand where they get their info from? And just to think that they're telling everyone this. How many people do you think change what they do just because they think that doc knows best? I hate hearing things like this.: What about finding a bunch of great books and articles on how CIO is harmful and give them to her. Who knows...maybe she'll change her tune?

As far as the going to the bathroom yourself thing...I used to put ds in the sling to go to the bathroom. hey, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
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#72 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 08:34 AM
 
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thats great, but i wasnt talking about "daddys loving arms" . This post wasnt really for advice on what you all consider CIO....
First of all, the thread went off on a tangent and i was responding to other posters.

Second of all, SURE it was about that. You said you can't leave your baby with dad because he cries the whole time. I said, he's being attended to by a loving parent so that's not CIO and for me, not unreasonable. My daughter learned that daddy was fun in his own way, and she's a total daddy's girl now. I think letting babies and dads figure out their own rhythm together is *healthy*. It's popular to want dads to be more involved, to complain when they're not, but also to never give them a chance to get close when the babies are little. Makes no sense to me.

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#73 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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First of all, the thread went off on a tangent and i was responding to other posters.

Second of all, SURE it was about that. You said you can't leave your baby with dad because he cries the whole time. I said, he's being attended to by a loving parent so that's not CIO and for me, not unreasonable. My daughter learned that daddy was fun in his own way, and she's a total daddy's girl now. I think letting babies and dads figure out their own rhythm together is *healthy*. It's popular to want dads to be more involved, to complain when they're not, but also to never give them a chance to get close when the babies are little. Makes no sense to me.
that is your opinion, but it is not going to change how i feel and what I consider CIO. In MY opinion, letting baby cry with ANYONE is uneccesary, and their are other ways for baby to form an attatchment to other family members/caregivers than to just hand baby over to them, and say " oh well, you may scream your head off, but it is okay, since you are supposed to feel secure with this person eventually". and of course it is healthy to let dads and babies figure out their own rythym, but it doesnt have to involve hours of crying either. : and NO that is not what this post was about ( i think i might have an idea, since i did start it ) it was about a professional, telling me the only way my baby will ever get over his seperation anxiety , and the only way he will become independant and secure, is by using CIO..with ANYONE. the point of the post had nothing to do with dads and babies attatchments.
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#74 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 12:09 PM
 
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A couple of things have helped us:

1. A "good-bye" ritual. DS gets very upset if I, hubby or his grandma leave him. Also certain friends when they visit. So now we take him to the door and he waves good-bye to whoever is leaving the house. It took a while but that is really helping.

2. Have dad take over some soothing while you are right there. He'll start to bond with dad more. Slowly but he will.

3. Have a basket of toys is all bathrooms.

My little guy just had his one year WBV and our very-mainstream ped suggested that separation anxiety is bad now through I think 18 months? Just a phase. You will all get through it together.
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#75 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 01:24 PM
 
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that is your opinion, but it is not going to change how i feel and what I consider CIO. In MY opinion, letting baby cry with ANYONE is uneccesary, and their are other ways for baby to form an attatchment to other family members/caregivers than to just hand baby over to them, and say " oh well, you may scream your head off, but it is okay, since you are supposed to feel secure with this person eventually".
For what it's worth, you might be wrong that ALL forms of crying (particularly in someone's loving arms) is a bad thing.

Have you read any of Aletha Solter's writings (click on Articles) on crying and stress release? She's got a really good book called THE AWARE BABY
http://www.awareparenting.com/

She is a pyschologist, AP and published in Mothering. She is anti-CIO. My first born was HN also. She believes that HN babies have stress/trauma (from birth, mine sure did) and by preventing the crying (as a form of normal stress release ~ everyone needs to have a good cry sometimes) that is not helping the child.

I was like you in the beginning. I NEVER let my son cry (I would distract or pop the boob in his mouth), no way no how. Later I read that cortisol (stress hormones) measured in saliva were FAR LOWER when a baby/child screamed loudly IF held. If they were not held (and screamed just as loud) the cortisol levels were threw the roof. Fascinating isn't it? But that helped me "get over" my fear of crying.

But I have used one sitter from the beginning (a couple of hours one day a week.) There were tears, but he was always comforted and was never left to self-soothe.

Aside from that, yes the psychologist was WRONG and completely out-of-line with promoting CIO for your and your little ones as a way to "help" break the attachment. Pure garbage.

Check out the book Helping Your Kids Cope with Divorce the Sandcastle Way There might be good tips/insight for you there. There is a chapter for dealing with when it happens for each age and how each child views the separation/divorce (from infancy onwards.)

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There is also an excellent book that goes into great detail about what occurs neurologically when a child cries uncomforted. It's The Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland. Margot Sunderland is Director of Education and Training for the Centre for Child Mental Health in London. She's also a child psychotherapist with 20 years’ experience. Here's a link on the book: http://www.dorlingkindersley-uk.co.u...0.html?sym=QUE
The book has research materials listed for each section. It's the best book I've read supporting a nurturing, compassionate parenting style. I got it through interlibrary loan.
Thank you so much for that link! I can't wait to read it.

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#76 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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you know, this is why i hesitate before even posting on these boards most of the time. Everyone is so quick to question everyone else parenting values/ ideas if they are not the same as their own. Do i percieve CIO differently then others? i am sure of it, but does that make it wrong? no, we all parent differently and no one is going to change that. i posted this for support, because this psychologist was doing exactly the same thing as some of you, trying to get me to change my thinking. the posters who posted nothing except their opinion about what constitues CIO, do you feel better now that you got to throw your 2 cents in? i didnt ask for advice ABOUT CIO, and i didnt need it.

And also, i am a single mom (as i have already said) and dh only has supervised visits. so it is understandable that ds is not totally comfortable just being left alone with him, the time will come when he is, but i am not going to push it, it will happen when he is ready.
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#77 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 01:58 PM
 
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you know, this is why i hesitate before even posting on these boards most of the time.
I know... I'm sorry. I get it. It opens a can of worms and everybody get to throw their 2 cents in and things go off-topic. Happens all da' time.

You are free to ignore the stuff that is OT. But I'm didn't post to give my ".02 cents" to make myself "feel better" and make you feel worse.

I posted to share an alternative view that * I * found very helpful and illuminating on this parenting journey, and thus might help you (or not, fine) but at least ONE person of the 100+ others reading this thread.

So you, dear OP, are free to ignore all. No judgement. You are on your own parenting path and you are fine.

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#78 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 02:10 PM
 
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Tanibani, thanks for posting that. It makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes a good cry is just what a person needs to feel better. You release the tension, pain, anxiety, and you feel better. I also don't want to teach my kids that they *shouldn't* cry. I grew up in a family where emotions were rarely shown, and it's not healthy.

OP, I don't think anyone here cares how you define CIO. You wanted input. If you just wanted people to agree with you, you should have posted that. Obviously in so diverse a forum you're going to get varying opinions. Take what you like and leave the rest, simple enough. A good number of the replies on this thread aren't even to you, since the thread went off in several other directions. Try not to take things so personally. I don't think anybody thinks you need to change if you feel you're doing the right thing, and I also think we unanimously agree that your shrink needs to go.

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#79 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tanibani sorry that really wasnt directed towards you, or really anyone who actually had some info to back up what they were talking about. a few of these posts just struck a nerve, sorry about that.
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#80 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 03:54 PM
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Tanibani sorry that really wasnt directed towards you, or really anyone who actually had some info to back up what they were talking about. a few of these posts just struck a nerve, sorry about that.
See, I think the issue was that YOUR post struck a nerve in calling something CIO that clearly wasn't CIO. CIO is a VERY emotionally loaded term and I think EVERYONE on this board agrees that it's wrong. Period. So when you labelled someone else's parenting "CIO" it does strike a nerve and feels like YOU are the one saying that others aren't "AP enough". It's perfectly fine if others' methods are not right for you and your family. Great. But please don't misuse terms that you know are very emotionally loaded for people and that make it sound like someone else's parenting in "wrong" or "damaging", as using real CIO would be.

OK, WAY off topic now, but just explaining how we ended up in this unintentional debate....

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#81 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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See, I think the issue was that YOUR post struck a nerve in calling something CIO that clearly wasn't CIO.
and to me, it IS CIO, those daycare people were STRANGERS to that baby, regardless of what they would eventually be. and leaving a baby to cry a few times a week, until they "get used to them" is not acceptable to me. it has nothing to do with if it was "ap enough", so you think its not CIO, i think it is, i am entitled to my opinion, just as youve stated yours.

and since this is MY post, if someone is going to give ME advice, saying that is what they did with their baby, i am going to tell them what i think about that said advice. period.
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#82 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 05:23 PM
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and to me, it IS CIO, those daycare people were STRANGERS to that baby, regardless of what they would eventually be. and leaving a baby to cry a few times a week, until they "get used to them" is not acceptable to me. it has nothing to do with if it was "ap enough", so you think its not CIO, i think it is, i am entitled to my opinion, just as youve stated yours.

and since this is MY post, if someone is going to give ME advice, saying that is what they did with their baby, i am going to tell them what i think about that said advice. period.
Um..CIO is specifically when a crying baby is not comforted , is left alone and whose cries are intentionally ignored. This baby WAS being comforted, was not alone, and his cries were not being ignored.

Again, if the situation described and advice given are not right for you and your family, great. Power to you. Decline it. Ignore it. Move on. But tossing around judgmental and erroneous labels isn't very productive. Especially when people are trying to HELP you by providing advice. If you don't like the advice and it won't work in your situation, no problem. Don't take it. But these is no need to criticize others by using hurtful labels just because they do things differently and you don't feel that their advice is right for you.

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#83 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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okay i can see your point about calling it "cio" , but IMO it was still very wrong, and since the advice was in regards to the topic OF cio, that is why i made that remark. i should have reworded it.
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#84 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 05:47 PM
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okay i can see your point about calling it "cio" , but IMO it was still very wrong, and since the advice was in regards to the topic OF cio, that is why i made that remark. i should have reworded it.
Fair enough if you disagree with someone's advice or way of doing things. We all do things in our own way It's just that calling it CIO seemed a little hurtful to me.

Well, we've gotten far off topic now....

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#85 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 06:06 PM
 
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So Alexysmom let's take this scenario.

You have a baby with colic who cries for hours a day. You are exhausted to the point where it is frankly getting dangerous (this may be hard for people who have not had a baby with colic to understand - but those who have will probably get it). Your sister comes for a visit. It is the first time she's met the baby. Your sister is concerned that you look inches from death and suggests she'd love to hold and rock the baby for an hour while you shower, eat or nap. She's had babies and you trust her. Would you allow that? Would that be CIO in your book?
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#86 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 08:43 PM
 
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and to me, it IS CIO, those daycare people were STRANGERS to that baby, regardless of what they would eventually be. and leaving a baby to cry a few times a week, until they "get used to them" is not acceptable to me. it has nothing to do with if it was "ap enough", so you think its not CIO, i think it is, i am entitled to my opinion, just as youve stated yours.

and since this is MY post, if someone is going to give ME advice, saying that is what they did with their baby, i am going to tell them what i think about that said advice. period.
You're entitled to your opinion, others are entitled to be annoyed by it. Works both ways.

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#87 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 08:48 PM
 
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Ughhh...sorry your psychologist and, from the sound of it, your ped as well, is so ignorant about childrens' needs. Anecdotally, my older daughter did not spend any time away from me (other than some attempts to get her to bunk in with dh right after dd2 was born, which ended after a few hours as soon as she asked for me). When she was two (-ish, don't remember exactly) she went with dh to the grocery store for 1.5 hours happily (I cried when they left!). Dd2 is 20 months old and is not yet ready to be away from me (was considering taking a class one Saturday a month and decided not to because of this). I can see making other decisions, but this way feels right to me.

Best of luck getting help for your baby!
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#88 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You're entitled to your opinion, others are entitled to be annoyed by it. Works both ways.
then why read it, and why post? just move along on your way then....
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#89 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 09:02 PM
 
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I think a baby crying in daddy's loving arms is VERY far from CIO.
i'm reading through here and catching up on this thread....and i just wanted to say i really agree with this comment. i know my dh is more than capable of dealing with a crying baby, and he equally needed opportunities to soothe and comfort his children. plus, i mentally needed that so much - especially with my second child. my dh is as much a parent as i am, and for us anyway, i think my dh would be offended if i took our baby from him everytime they cried for me.

OP - i'm not saying that's at all what you do--i just wanted to reply to this comment as i agreed with it.

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#90 of 151 Old 08-19-2007, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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you know, i dont even know why someone felt the need to post that BECAUSE I NEVER SAID HER LEAVING HER LITTLE ONE WITH THE DAD IS CIO. i was referring to THIS statement

"She went 2 mornings a week and she cried every time for a month - she was a legend - LOL. "

i am done with this thread, thank you for all who have given me the support i was looking for it truly is hard with a baby who has severe seperation anxiety, but if he needs his momma by his side to feel secure, i am okay with that, for as long as it takes. its too bad that shrink needs a shrink herself. :
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