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#91 of 114 Old 10-18-2007, 08:30 AM
 
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Kayt707 I just wanted to say how alike our guys sound.
The way it works for me is that when DS is salicylated he is impossible. IMPOSSIBLE. Everything you mentioned - getting caught in those repetitive cycles, getting frustrated literally all of the time, and just crying so hard that he can't even say what he wants anymore, and he can't stop crying.. the not going to sleep, ADD wondering, even the speech delay. I don't think ds is delayed, but he seems to have less words (in a single language, he's bilingual) than some other kids his age that I know. But once he is free of those chemicals he changes, he is just as energetic and willful - but he's able to understand more it seems, and is also willing to compromise. Like, first we do t his and THEN you can get what you were asking for. He's willing to be distracted sometimes, and he he seems to be content inside, rather than full of frustration and even rage. It\s hard to explain the difference, it's just that my TRUE son is really fun to be around (though exhausting and extremely willful) and my son on salicylates is awful. Makes me question why I became a mother. I can't even tell you how many times I've thrown my hands up and said to dh "He's insane."
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#92 of 114 Old 10-18-2007, 08:56 AM
 
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I can't even tell you how many times I've thrown my hands up and said to dh "He's insane."




Except we use "CRAZY" : LOL!

well we are doing our best limiting foods and so far so good There are still things in the house he can't have so when he requests them I have just been reminding him that we think he has an allergy to those foods or rather whats in them. He seems ok so far with that answer not questioning it too much yet. Though he has gotten a bit upset about not being able to eat something (i forget?) But since he isn't eating the chems he can "handle" it. YAY!!!!
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#93 of 114 Old 10-18-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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A litle more on my son.
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

He is so outgoing and has no fear of things. He has been speech delayed. He talks all the time but it seems to be in his own language. He has gotten good about asking for things...over and over again, but trying to have a conversation with him is really difficult. I feel like theres something wrong that Im doing but dont know what else to do.

Hes very independent. He just does so many things for himself. Which is good in one way but also dangerous at times. Sometimes it feels like you just cant get his attention because he is so intent on what he is doing.

My aunt refers to him as a force of nature.

Sometimes I just feel like Im at my wits end. Im been told to be stricter, to try all these different techniques, which I have but they either dont work or make it worse. Ive been asked if he has ADD, I have to admit Ive worried about that myself...but he just doesn't fit the profile for it. I knew that he wasnt just your average active toddler though when the other parents at pre-school would look at me and say wow you really have your hands full.
This describes my 28 m.o. dd to a T. She is so willful. So big (36lbs) and strong. I've given up any attempts to guide her. She just does her own thing and look out if you get in her way. She is so smart and yet can't figure out basic things like asking for something instead of screaming and throwing herself backwards onto the floor. I am at the end of my rope. I am yelling at her every day and those who know me know that I am a very gentle mama. She is so draining and pushes my buttons like crazy.

Are you all saying that just changing her diet could help her moods? Right now we eat pretty naturally, but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

Help! I can't take her anywhere and we're still unhappy when we stay home. She barely sleeps (maybe 7 or 8 hours a night and no nap) and never holds still, not even when it's the end of the day and I know she's exhausted and I put on a calm video. She is still doing headstands and jumping on the couch.

-Vijay
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#94 of 114 Old 10-18-2007, 08:22 PM
 
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This describes my 28 m.o. dd to a T. She is so willful. So big (36lbs) and strong. I've given up any attempts to guide her. She just does her own thing and look out if you get in her way. She is so smart and yet can't figure out basic things like asking for something instead of screaming and throwing herself backwards onto the floor. I am at the end of my rope. I am yelling at her every day and those who know me know that I am a very gentle mama. She is so draining and pushes my buttons like crazy.

Are you all saying that just changing her diet could help her moods? Right now we eat pretty naturally, but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

Help! I can't take her anywhere and we're still unhappy when we stay home. She barely sleeps (maybe 7 or 8 hours a night and no nap) and never holds still, not even when it's the end of the day and I know she's exhausted and I put on a calm video. She is still doing headstands and jumping on the couch.

-Vijay
I so understand. I cant tell you all what a difference just knowing that im not alone is. The preschool that he goes to is great, they are very good at guiding the children( instead of just corraling them or ordering them), it is a playbased cirriculum, and all the snacks are organic. But even there they dont seem to understand some of the trials. DS has found out that if he goes through the office , through the Kitchen he can reach the other rooms. So he does. I had signed him in and was trying to talk to the teacher about something. He ran again. He had been out in the play yard with the assistant. The director came and told me that we have to be very strict about it with him because its dangerous. I agree, I try to talk to him and and his immediate response is no and laughs. She came down hard on me and I left feeling like the worst parent in the world. I know that he can be difficult but Deep inside I know there isnt a medical condition or just bad kid. If anything I feel like some how Ive done the wrong things...even though Ive tried it all. I bought the book on raising a spirited child and hope that will give me some clues to help us communicate and work together instead of combatting each other.
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#95 of 114 Old 10-18-2007, 09:53 PM
 
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but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .
The first thing that I would do is get rid of the artificial dyes. You would be amazed at how this affects so many children. From your list, dairy affects many many children. There are some great substitutes though some of them have their own problems like salicalytes and vit. a. We are using goat milk without problem. Goat cheese is yummyand my son likes goat yogurt! But avoid the orange cheddar as it would have art. dyes. Apples make my son very hyper, as do mangos, bananas and grapes/raisins. Gluten products are also a trigger for many kids.

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Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

It used to take me two hours every night to get my son to sleep. We used to drive him in the car every night for an hour when we couldn't take it any mkore. Then I read about some techniques used with children with Sensory Integration Disorder. I didn't think my son had that but his resistance to sleep was similar. So the first thing I did was to take my big birthing ball and put him on it with me sitting behind him on the bed. I'd bounce him up and down on the ball while singing songs. Then I would put him on his belly and roll him forward and back, again while singing. Thirdly, I would lay him on his belly and roll the ball up and down his body while singing the ABC's. Then I put him into his bed and did a joint compression technique. I gently squeezed foot to knee on each leg and leg to thigh, then thighs together. Then hand to elbow. Elbow to shoulder and then shoulders together. We counted to 10 each time. After a week of doing this I saw amazing changes and he was then able to settle down and go to sleep on his own.

One more suggestion are a series of books by Maureen Garth. Here is one
http://www.amazon.com/Starbright-Med...2755152&sr=1-1 We really liked these.

HTH
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#96 of 114 Old 10-18-2007, 10:39 PM
 
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The first thing that I would do is get rid of the artificial dyes. You would be amazed at how this affects so many children. From your list, dairy affects many many children. There are some great substitutes though some of them have their own problems like salicalytes and vit. a. We are using goat milk without problem. Goat cheese is yummyand my son likes goat yogurt! But avoid the orange cheddar as it would have art. dyes. Apples make my son very hyper, as do mangos, bananas and grapes/raisins. Gluten products are also a trigger for many kids.

Quote
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

It used to take me two hours every night to get my son to sleep. We used to drive him in the car every night for an hour when we couldn't take it any mkore. Then I read about some techniques used with children with Sensory Integration Disorder. I didn't think my son had that but his resistance to sleep was similar. So the first thing I did was to take my big birthing ball and put him on it with me sitting behind him on the bed. I'd bounce him up and down on the ball while singing songs. Then I would put him on his belly and roll him forward and back, again while singing. Thirdly, I would lay him on his belly and roll the ball up and down his body while singing the ABC's. Then I put him into his bed and did a joint compression technique. I gently squeezed foot to knee on each leg and leg to thigh, then thighs together. Then hand to elbow. Elbow to shoulder and then shoulders together. We counted to 10 each time. After a week of doing this I saw amazing changes and he was then able to settle down and go to sleep on his own.

One more suggestion are a series of books by Maureen Garth. Here is one
http://www.amazon.com/Starbright-Med...2755152&sr=1-1 We really liked these.

HTH
Thanks Ill give that a try. I have been having a bit more success with massaging the muscles in his legs, arms and back. It seems to help him relax better. Im still staying until he falls asleep though otherwise he just jolts himself back up but the 1-2 hour struggles are now 20 mins or under. That is saving a little sanity. The funny thing with him is that he will fight it so hard for so long and then the instant he stops he falls into a sound sleep. Today was a much better day. I dont know if some of it is that im having a better understanding and dealing with it differently or just one of those lucky days but we havent had a day like this in a long time. It was by no means perfect but so much better. Thanks for all the support!
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#97 of 114 Old 10-19-2007, 10:04 AM
 
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Okay mommas, jumping in....

DS is 3.5 and spirited. But after reading other posts, I guess we actually have it easy?? Although my DH and friends would disagree We are pretty fortunate in that our preschool is a coop and I LOOOOVE his teachers. It's playbased and his past teacher and I are now friends and his current teacher is GREAT with him and is my source of encouragement. She reminds me "Progress is what we are looking for". I'm our class mom so I am pretty involved with what is going on.

Anyway, sleep is what gets most affected for him and then WATCH OUT! But for the most part when I get him down for the night he is good and he takes a 2-3 hr nap daily, well 99% of the time. He didn't start sleeping through the night until last year when his sister was born-thankfully. but it was a looooong process with No Cry as my bible. Now it still takes a while for him to wind down, but it's fine and I like the quiet time with him reading and rocking/singing and cuddling. But I also realize that he NEEDS his sleep, as I do, unfortunately.

I've been reading Raising your spirit child and really like it. I've tried a bunch of ideas and have seen a difference, I just need to remember to do it more often. He likes to argue and hates anything new- he really freaks out. His energy level is super high and is a tactile learner and into everything. He really wears me out and I become a screamer totally bums me out.

We are semi healthy, organic, natural etc. for some things. I really don't know where to start. I know preservatives and dyes. anyone have a cheat sheet? I just feel overwhelmed with trying to find info and we are in a sleep situation right now-- he's waking up at 3/4 a.m. every morning and fighting naps (which isn't normal). so I am beat, have little down time and DH is really busy with work right now. Actually got to finally post because DD is still asleep at 9 a.m. totally unheard of for my son. 7 is late for him but I hear her cooing, so I'm am out of here.

Thanks mommas for sharing and reminding me I am not a horrible mom and not alone! I love this site!
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#98 of 114 Old 10-22-2007, 12:23 AM
 
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Mama's - we are desperate!! DD's (7) tantrums are getting out of our control. We cannot let her "safely" have them - she turns into an animal and I say that with the greatest of love for her - she is unintelligible so fast now that we don't have a chance of figuring out what she wants/needs.: She is not violent towards us or herself but she is heading in that direction. What "professional" do we take her to? And how do I make sure that "they" don't break her spirit? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
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#99 of 114 Old 10-22-2007, 06:35 PM
 
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Hugs Spritesmom, I wish I had an answer for you.

Does anyone else have trouble getting their spirited child to eat? It can take ds ages to actually eat anything. He plays, daydreams etc. It isn't that he doesn't like the food. I don't think he has ever actually refused to eat anything but turnip because of the taste. He just doesn't want to feed himself. If we want him to eat we end up feeding him. At 5.5! But if we don't do that he doesn't eat. Then he is hungry later. I don't want to start that practice. He does always have a bedtime snack but I don't want that to replace his supper.

Anyone else have food challenges?
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#100 of 114 Old 10-22-2007, 06:59 PM
 
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Krista (mybaby'ssmile), we have that issue. Phoenix likes to eat slowly, play at eating, "savor" her desserts, etc. It's hard to get her to eat. I really don't think it has that much to do with being spirited, I've talked to many people who have this issue with their toddlers.

To be honest, to solve the problem (plus, there is the problem that her naps run 11:00 to about 2:00), we eat about 5 meals throughout the day now instead of 3, and all are healthy. Breakfast, lunch (really early, about 10:30), afternoon meal, dinner, before bed meal. DH and I actually like eating this way better (he works from home so eats all meals with us), too, so that's what works for all of us.
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#101 of 114 Old 10-24-2007, 11:10 AM
 
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spritesmom, you might check out "the explosive child" book by ross greene. lots of good tips there and he really knows what you're talking about when you say tantrum! he has a website here -- http://www.ccps.info/, but i think the book is better than the website.

hth

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#102 of 114 Old 10-24-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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Mama's - we are desperate!! DD's (7) tantrums are getting out of our control. We cannot let her "safely" have them - she turns into an animal and I say that with the greatest of love for her - she is unintelligible so fast now that we don't have a chance of figuring out what she wants/needs.: She is not violent towards us or herself but she is heading in that direction. What "professional" do we take her to? And how do I make sure that "they" don't break her spirit? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
Haven't read the whole thread, but we have this problem. For me, it would have to get much worse before I would take DS1 to any "professional" for the very reason you state. When DS1 tantrums/screams/flails unintelligibly, our approach has been to get down to his level, acknowledge his frustration loudly enough so that he can hear, but nicely (something like, "you seem so frustrated! I want to help but I can't understand. I am ready to help but I need you to speak clearly in a normal voice so I can understand what happened"), and hold him until he expends all that wild energy and can speak again. Later when things are calm, we talk a lot about how to deal with frustration better. I am satisfied with this, and I think if we keep doing it, he'll eventually get the picture. I don't know if you could try this approach (or already have!) but just wanted to share. For DH and me the big challenge is to not get caught up in the emotional tidal wave, but just stay calm.

aran .......... Mr. aran .......... DS1 .......... DS2
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#103 of 114 Old 10-27-2007, 05:27 PM
 
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Hi Mamas,
I am so grateful to have found this thread I could cry. DS 21 mos hit's pretty much every trait on all the lists, is bright, but just can't turn off, body or mind. We eat an almost all org diet, with no processed foods (DH has food sensitivities) no artificial colors or anything like that. He does have goat yogurt...but I had never heard of the salycilates I will read up.

He also has "sensory issues", we are in early intervention because of them, although I have avoided an actual diagnoses, since we have the services and I want to avoid the labels.

It can take him up to 2 hours to fall asleep, and that is with both parents with him when possible, after a calming bedtime routine. 1.25 hours is average, kicking, jumping all the way. MyBabysSmile, do you do that routine AS bedtime, right before he falls asleep? I do some brushing (but DS doesn't like it much) and some joint compression, but not what you talk about with the ball, etc)

We have the LOW LOW tolerance for frustration, and we started seeing tantrums at 10 months when he could understand something and couldn't do it, like trying to fit a pot lid onto a pot that didn't quite fit. Some days the tantrums barely had 1/2 hour between them. He HATES clothing, diapers (we've ECed, partly because he couldn't stand them) and some days can't even get out of the house because of this. His persistence is the key, if I put the clothes on him even if he says no, he does not get over it, he screams and pulls at them until I take them off. I feel so permissive, when that happens, but I have to respect him, he will not settle for anything less, so we have to find a way to make what I need (ie to get dressed to get out of the house) acceptable. I usually have to make it fun, he's too intense and bright for distraction, he just catches on too quick.

I've read "Parenting your Spirited Child" and we're doing a lot of it, but still there are days I just cry from sheer exhaustion and from the horrible bad advice I get or advice I imagine people are thinking, it makes me feel so ALONE!

We're big believers in letting him have the tantrum, supporting him through the feelings, although I'm afraid he could really hurt himself arching backward into things, hitting or biting himself, and pulling out his hair by the clumps :. One thing I like that the PYSC book says is that spirited children sometimes need to be called back to reality from such strong explosions, because they can work themselves up to where they don't know how to stop. I remember feeling this way as a child.

Thanks for being there Mamas!

Wife to Bear - Mom to DS 7, gifted with SPD and DD 2, a Joybunny!
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#104 of 114 Old 10-27-2007, 09:55 PM
 
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Yes pitchfork, we did it immediately before bed. Most people advocate setting a calming routine for children, bath, books, bed etc. Baths wired ds up like you wouldn't believe. Then I read somewhere on MDC that children with SID actually need a bit of revving up before bed. Things like swinging (you make a swing with your arms by clasping hands together and dc sits on your hands), bouncing on the bed rigourously, and others that I can't recall at the moment. The ball bouncing was best for us because he was older and too big for arm swinging I put him in his jammies first and had him ready for bed. The first week I would do this as long as I had the energy to bounce him, so maybe 20 mins.? Then we did the joint compression while he sat on his bed and he helped me count to 10 for each section we worked on. Then in to bed for a couple of books. For him it really only took a couple of weeks and made a huge difference. Very quickly we stopped having to do it and then only did it once in a while if he was very hyper at bedtime.

The salicalytes that bother my son are found in apples, grapes, mangos, bananas and I'm guessing the preservatives found in Vit. A in some rice milks. Not sure about that one but one rice milk in particular really caused some issues here.

You sound like you are doing a great job. It is hard. Very hard. But I am very happy to say that we are seeing some huge, wonderful changes in ds! Feel free to pm me if you have any other questions!
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#105 of 114 Old 11-03-2007, 11:48 PM
 
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I haven't read the whole thread either (I'll work on that) but I just picked up the book from the library this week and when I was reading it, I kept saying, OMG, this is EXACTLY like DS!!! I thought it was just him, or us, or something... but to find out it's normal for some kids? And that there are other kids out there like DS? I couldn't believe it!!!

He is so intense and energetic, he resists change (especially if he has to end play or something he is really enjoying), he fights with DH all the time, presses his buttons, instead of crashing like "normal" kids, he gets more and more wound and it gets uglier and uglier til we stop him! As soon as we cuddle in bed with him, he's out like a light. Sleep has never been a favored activity and he used to be up for hours in the middle of the night when he was a baby.

It doesn't help that DD is 8 months old, I spent 4 months recovering from mono because she doesn't sleep either... I don't think I want any more kids because I just can't handle this any more!!! : I am always sick because I am always tired and I can't get any more sleep, it's really hard and some days I just want to quit...
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#106 of 114 Old 11-04-2007, 05:19 PM
 
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Hi mamas! Just wanted to say that i'm so happy there's a thread like this! I have a very spirites DD. She's 3. It's good to know i'm not alone. Thats all.
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#107 of 114 Old 11-05-2007, 10:43 AM
 
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Hello mamas!!! Man do I need this thread. (Haven't read the whole thing yet)
DD is definately spirited. I was reading the 5 characteristics to my mom last night, and she couldn't believe how accurate it was for DD1. I guess what I have gotten so far is - I am excited to see how her strengths help her as she becomes older. I think she will be an amazing grown person. But I need to feel how to appreciate it more now. Four is rough anyway you look at it. But four with a spirited child is downright hairpulling at times.!!! I look forward to watching this thread!

Heather: wife to Chris ; mama to Sophia (7/03) ; Juliana (8/07):; and Peter (3/12/10)
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#108 of 114 Old 11-05-2007, 02:29 PM
 
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I've wanted to read this book for the longest time.........will be watching this thread with interest.
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#109 of 114 Old 11-06-2007, 12:40 AM
 
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I too have a spirited ds. I have read through this thread and the is just a wealth of information. Thanks so much for all of the useful tips.

Wife of 20 years to my superhero firefighting DH. SAHM to 2 boys and 2 girls (3 babies in Heaven- Baby # 5 5/2010 & Baby #6 8/2011 & Baby # 7 2/1013). Cancer Survivor 2011 ( Persistent Malignant Gestational Trophoblastic Disease)

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#110 of 114 Old 11-06-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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Hi,
I just picked up the book today!! So far all I can say is WOW!! This is just like my DS!! Hopefully I can get a chance to read some of it this afternoon....

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#111 of 114 Old 11-07-2007, 02:13 PM
 
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OH mamas.
I am in the drained-worn-tired-run over by a truck feeling camp with my dd.
I started reading the book, got a few chapters in, but then found out they have an audio version and checked that out at the library... It was quite a while ago now, and I think I need to re-check it out.
I think I will post in another thread about my day so far, its a bit long winded... has alot to do with Katelyn either not listening or throwing herself on the floor into major tantrum land because I *need* her to listen and I make xyz happen, after several times of asking her not to.. and sometimes "barking" at her to not do xyz... (throwing food down when eating or dumping it all off the plate = scoop it up and get her down from her chair... climbing up the steep, rocky, dangerous hill while I am scooping dog poop (ew) = I come up and take her by the hand or pick her up if I can and get us both down the hill)

I am really trying... I want to allow her to make choices and let her express her apparently super intense need for independence, but there is a point when it comes down to it, I am mama, she is child, she needs to listen and follow what I say when she is doing things that are not acceptable, you know? I gotta admit, it really makes my blood boil and it (my lack of patience? temper? my own spirited-ness?) makes me bark/yell and sometimes be less than gentle when I am say, removing her from a situation.

Let me go back to the beginning of the thread and do some label changing...

wired ---> high energy
stubborn ---> ???
emotional/drama queen ---> someone else said passionate--excellent one!
I donno if independent is a "good" label or not? I guess it depends on the situation/mood?

I am really struggling with this. She is very very bright and has been a joy to be with most of the time - but lately all I can remember are "those" moments.

Kelly, mama to DD energy.gif : (3-30-06) and DS bouncy.gif 7/28/09) ....and gummi, due 3-30-13! (large sch....praying.gif)

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#112 of 114 Old 11-08-2007, 01:30 AM
 
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I'm sooo glad to hear about the tantrums!!: (Sorry!!) I've been thinking that my DD (7) is the only one doing this at this age!!! We're finding that she is much easier to "handle" if she eats well. We go organic/natural as much as we can afford and try to avoid additives and preservatives. Red 40 is a killer!! Absolutely NO RED FOOD is permitted in this child!! Tantrums started at the beginning of this past summer. Sooo much fun!! Picked her up from camp and the minute she hit the car:... problem is now DS (10) has figured out that tantrums get a lot of attention so he's started. I WANT TO HAVE ONE!!! We've nipped DS's in the bud. He is still angry that DD gets too much attention - working on that. Taking DD to a PT next week. Two friends have had good results with this one so we are really, really hoping. One friends DD is in my DD's class and she is brushing her skin every two hours - don't know much about this - yet- but it is really helping. Problem is THE SCHOOL!!?! :She goes down to the nurse to do this and they want a "diagnosis" and want the school psychologist to "evaluate" her. The DD just needs to be in the bathroom for about 10 minutes. It works out she misses a little gym, a little recess and a little computer time. This is only for 30 days. If you are dealing with a private doctor, why is all that necessary? This child and mine are perfectly fine in school. Both get good grades and the teachers "like" them. What is the school going to do with the "evaluation"? No one wants their child labeled, especially when the school had no clue about these kids. Well- as usual - I'm loaded for bear. : We'll see next week.
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#113 of 114 Old 11-11-2007, 02:35 AM
 
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Mama's!! I've already posted this to the Tribe - check it out!! PHYSICAL THERAPY!!!Our session got moved to last night. This woman knows exactly what we are going through!!! She treats mainly Spirited/Active Alerts!! Why oh why don't the kids doc. know about this? Well - mine is going to now! 30 days, Mama's! Just 30 days! DD actually went to sleep AT 8:00!!! I mean she was out!! We've only done the Sleep Program tonight!! Needless to say - we are thrilled. Next session is Tuesday and she will "play" with DD as all the paperwork/history is done. We may get our sex life back after all!!::
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#114 of 114 Old 02-26-2008, 11:21 AM
 
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Bumping this!!
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