Am I the only one who spanks her dog but not her kid? - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
blessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Since becoming a parent, I became a whole lot less patient with our two family dogs. And a lot less attentive too, which has been discussed on other threads.

I'm a lifetime animal freak and our dogs are part of our family. Sleep on our bed, act like one of the kids, the whole thing. But I noticed that since dd arrived, I'm so much more short tempered with them. Somewhere along the way I realized that when I'm especially mad there've been a couple of times that I've swatted their haunches.

Like yesterday one dog jumped up and got a sandwich I'd just made, carried it into the living room and ate it. I used to be able to leave my food on the coffee table at eye level while I left the room to go answer the phone, and when I came back they'd be sitting there staring at it and it would be untouched. Now they act up a lot more, I think as a reaction to the relative neglect since dd came.

Anyway I ran over to get the sandwich remains, scolded the dog and swatted him once on the haunches. More just because of my anger than because of any delusion that it taught the dog anything. Dd's nanny was there and I embarrassedly commented that I must be the only mother she knew who spanked her dog but didn't allow her kids to be spanked.

She laughed and said "yeah, and I also noticed that dd pretty much does what you ask her to and the dogs don't"

Another testimony to the effectiveness of spanking .
blessed is offline  
#2 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 11:36 AM
 
Roar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So are you going to stop hitting the dogs now?
Roar is offline  
#3 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 12:28 PM
 
Kylix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: drifting off in space
Posts: 1,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
So are you going to stop hitting the dogs now?
Yes, are you?
Kylix is offline  
#4 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 12:34 PM
 
Genesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

knit.gifMama to reading.gif  and  babygirl.gif
Genesis is offline  
#5 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
blessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Interestingly those replies do absolutely nothing to motivate me to work harder on self control. In fact, they make me feel the complete opposite: irritated with the implied judgment and defensive that more is being made of the situation than there really is.

Might be something to think about if you find yourself in a situation with a parent struggling with spanking her child.

At least my presumption is that you intend for your reponses to be helpful and to have a positive effect toward improving the situation.
blessed is offline  
#6 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:00 PM
 
MadysonMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was just talking to my mom about this the other day. I have three dogs and have become much less patient since DD was born. I have spanked them and the other day my mom laughed and said look Madyson the dogs are getting a spanking. Thats what made me realize I did not want my DD to see anyone or anthing getting hit. I dont want her to think its ok for her to hit the dogs when she gets older. I need to practice the same self control with the dogs that I do with her.

I always find it amuzing that everything I talk about at home always come up in a thread a few days later. Its nice to relate to others and know your not crazy sometimes.

Melissa-:,:,, mama to Madyson (11-18-06) and Maisie (5-20-09). DW to Doug (10-23-04).
MadysonMom is offline  
#7 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:06 PM
 
ShaggyDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am not talking about beating dogs or anything like that, and neither are you, but I just wanted to point out a pitfall when raising dogs.

DW and I have always been really great with kids, never really had much of a problem with child care, or dealing with challenges with kids.

Ok so then we got a dog. The _worst_ behaved dog to ever walk the planet. Nothing worked for this dog, NOTHING.

Then we read a site about dog training that gave us an "oh duh" moment when she was about 4-5 years old.

The goal of raising a child is COMPLETELY different from the goal of raising a dog. You want a child to grow into a decision making, independant, individual. You want a dog to become a subservient member of your pack, who looks to you or other Alpha members of the pack for every decision. You provide the food, leadership, and safety, and your dog provides support, protection, and obedience.

It seems almost cruel, untill you start actung like a true alpha dog/pack leader.
There is no rage, physical punnishments are instant, reactive, and are instantly forgotten. An alpha dog will not bite a disobedient subordinate over and over again until they stop the activity. They will give them a quick bite and then let them know, with afection that they are still welcome in the pack. The disobedient does not have to sulk, they are not confused, they just fall back in line.

Rage, screaming, and inconsistant behaver encourage the lesser members of the pack to start a struggle for dominance. In the wild, if the leader is behaving in such a way that his/her behavior is unpredictable, and inconsistant, it is the DUTY and the Instinct of each member to prove that they would be a better leader. Every time you scream, or lose control to your dog, the only thing they hear is "Well, this pack needs a new leader".

Correction in an animal can be something physical that is uncomfortable, in my opinion, this is natural. It is what they expect, it is what they thrive on. Watch caesar millan (dog whisperer). He does a very non-aggressive, non-rage physical correction where he kind of strikes with the tips of his fingers to simulate a "warning bite" from a true alpha dog. Dogs communicate with physical roughness. Humans can communicate with words.

I think to try to use the same strategy for a dog and a child you will just end up with a confused "misbehaved" dog. (that was certainly the case for us) Once I started acting like an alpha dog, instead of a crazy person, the dog was calmer, better behaved, and overall much more fun to be around. The best news is that since the dog's instinct is to struggle for dominance in the absence of an Alpha... you can take control ANY time, no matter how old the dog or how long you have been doing what you have been doing.
ShaggyDaddy is offline  
#8 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:06 PM
 
becoming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I couldn't believe how much less patient I became with animals after my first child was born! I used to consider myself a "dog person," and now I'm not at all.

Yeah, I don't think it's great for your child to see you spanking the dogs, but man, the sandwich incident would have really gotten to me, too!
becoming is offline  
#9 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:07 PM
 
goodygumdrops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I understand how your feeling. I have a dog and now 3 cats(need to change my siggy).
Since my son was born I have been more and more frustrated with the animals. My dog is a rescue who now feels the need to go potty in the house whenever she wants. At first, I just blamed myself for not training her properly and didn't yell or spank. But then I went through a phase where I thought that maybe I should swat her....and it did not work at all. Basically, now she goes potty in the house and is scared I'm going to swat her...eerrrr.

So, at this point I've decided that I am going to hire a trainer. I need to fix this problem and I honestly have no more patience for it. It's funny how most training books explain how hitting is not the way to train an animal but parents think it's ok to do this to their children. Weird.

"Breastfeeding is a robust, biologically stable activity so central to our evolutionary identity that it names the class of animals to which we belong" (Breastfeeding Atlas, Third Edition)
goodygumdrops is offline  
#10 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:08 PM
 
Genesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
Interestingly those replies do absolutely nothing to motivate me to work harder on self control. In fact, they make me feel the complete opposite: irritated with the implied judgment and defensive that more is being made of the situation than there really is.

Might be something to think about if you find yourself in a situation with a parent struggling with spanking her child.

At least my presumption is that you intend for your reponses to be helpful and to have a positive effect toward improving the situation.
blessed, just to clarify, MY response was in confusion to kylix's post, I thought she was directing that question at Roar for some reason, and I didn't understand why. : I am just not with it today.

No judgement coming from me. I find my that my 2 cats as much as I love them, are a lot more annoying since I had DS!

knit.gifMama to reading.gif  and  babygirl.gif
Genesis is offline  
#11 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:09 PM
 
veg n mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
so maybe you can stop spanking doggy now!!!:
veg n mama is offline  
#12 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:14 PM
 
mzfern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SD, your post is excellent -- thanks for sharing your insights.
mzfern is offline  
#13 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:16 PM
 
elizawill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: right here
Posts: 5,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i'm the total opposite. i never even think about hitting my little dog (3rd child), but i have been tempted to spank my 2 kids at times!!!! but don't worry mamas - i don't hit any of um'

homeschooling mama to DD 10 & DS 7 blogging.jpg

elizawill is offline  
#14 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:18 PM
 
beanma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: with the dustbunnies & sugar beans
Posts: 8,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
i could see me doing that with "the sandwich incident", too. i don't usually let it out on the dogs, but i did holler greatly at our younger pup the other day when i was feeling exceptionally frustrated. i talked to the kids about it afterwards, but really i was happy that i didn't yell at them.

if you're looking for a funny light good dog read, you might pick up "Marley & Me: life and love with the world's worst dog" by josh groban. it made me feel much more loving toward our mutts even when they bark and generally cause a ruckus.

Mamatreehugger.gif to two girl beans, Feb 2001hearts.gif and Nov 2003coolshine.gif . DH geek.gif, and two crazydog2.gifdog2.gif . Running on biodiesel since 2004!
 
"All you fascists are bound to lose" — Woody Guthrie
beanma is offline  
#15 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:35 PM
 
DevaMajka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 10,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
From what I've read, letting dogs in beds is a no-no, unless you have a dog that has not an ounce of dominance in it. It sends a message that they are equal to you, which sounds good to humans, but to dogs it's confusing. And can lead to unwanted and/or agressive behavior. (something like that)
And walking through the door first- you should go through first. I don't make Shiloh wait for me, because she's one of those way submissive dogs. It's just easier to let her go first.

I'm not going to tell you about how bad it is to hit dogs, cuz I'm guessing you know.

Have you heard about "nothing in life is free"? Dogs really are happier when they have work to do!
http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

DevaMajka is offline  
#16 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:43 PM
 
elizawill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: right here
Posts: 5,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deva33mommy View Post
From what I've read, letting dogs in beds is a no-no, unless you have a dog that has not an ounce of dominance in it. It sends a message that they are equal to you, which sounds good to humans, but to dogs it's confusing. [/url]

ha ha, i totally agree with this!!!! my dog does sleep in bed with me ....under the covers even (she's a little jack russell terrier) and she is definitely very confused! she has NO idea she's a dog. and to make matters worse, i buy her clothes in the winter to confuse her that much more! my husband won't acknowledge her though when she's wearing a halloween costume or a jacket.

she literally sitting on my lap as i'm typing!

homeschooling mama to DD 10 & DS 7 blogging.jpg

elizawill is offline  
#17 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:45 PM
 
lolar2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
See, that's the thing with cats. When they are driving me up the wall, I drug them up with catnip and they don't bother me for a while.

I do love dogs but I think I would have trouble dealing with one right now.
lolar2 is offline  
#18 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
blessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Our dogs are great, really. They're both six years old and we've had them since puppyhood. They're completely submissive to everyone in the family, including dd, thank goodness. One is part chow and has some aggression to strangers. We were worried about what would happen when dd arrived. But she climbs on him, pulls his ears, takes food literally out of his mouth while he's eating, and he wags his tail and licks her. He obviously adores her.

I'm not surprised the pups are acting out some these days, since they get about one tenth of the attention they used to get. They're actually very well trained. The fact that he slipped and ate a cornbeef sandwich that I left within easy reach when no one was looking is probably more a testament to my own shortcoming than his. It takes a pretty disciplined dog to pass that test, and his motivations aren't very well supported these days .
blessed is offline  
#19 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 02:04 PM
 
mommy2abigail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ITA with ShaggyDaddy. Dogs are not people. This coming from a former dog rescuer. I LOVE dogs, but to treat them in the same way you treat a child is not natural.
mommy2abigail is offline  
#20 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 02:06 PM
 
ShaggyDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
had you already eaten part of the sandwich, or were you eating as you made it? If so, then this is typical pack behavior, A leader is done with the food, my turn. In either case, I think it would be important to start thinking more like an alpha on food matters. Assign them to eat, when you pour food, instruct them to eat it. If they always have food out, make it a point to take the bowl away during meal times, and replace them once the family is done eating. If they eat table scraps (which does not hurt alpha status in my opinion) make sure if they try to instigate table scraps with begging or stealing, the scraps stop for the night and they are not allowed to eat (even dog food) untill everyone else is done. These are pack behaviors that are important in setting up feeding rank. The last thing you want is some big dogs that feel like they should get to eat FIRST.

The most important action, the one you are struggling with is what to do when it happens. In my opinion this is what you should do: Reprimand the dog with a push (physical relocation to allow you access to YOUR food or a snap, like a warning bite). Take whatever portion of the food is left back to the kitchen. DO NOT decide that you just won't eat. It is important that you eat SOMETHING after this display so that the dog can understand that the alpha was not done eating, and that was the problem. After you are done eating your replacement snack/meal. Take the dogs to their food and tell them they can eat this. Walk away.

Of course sometimes we have no time for this, you can easily shorten it, just keep the alpha mentallity and you can't really go wrong, because the dogs do not have any desire to question a true alpha's decision.
ShaggyDaddy is offline  
#21 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 02:10 PM
 
AngelBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Brighton, MN
Posts: 20,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

AngelBee is offline  
#22 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 02:19 PM
 
nascarbebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: rural Missouri
Posts: 1,107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We have a dog and it took her a while to get used to a new baby. As long as we let her out to pee, fed her at regular times, and take her out walking she's fine. It didn't take long for her to figure out that she had moved to the bottom of priorities. Our dog is a greyhound and probably sleeps about 20 hrs/day. Greyhounds are huge couch potatoes, when they're not running they're napping. I've never hit her or my child. I would feel like crap if I did.

My only suggestion is to try to keep your dog on a regular schedule and take it out walking as much as possible. I try to walk our dog everyday, or at least 5 times a week an she loves that. I've mastered managing the stroller and dog on walks.

Awesome SAHM to 5-yr-old son,3-yr-old girl and a baby girl. Blog about my home http://azaleastudio.blogspot.com
nascarbebe is offline  
#23 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 02:26 PM
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,481
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
A big : to SD. I would never physically correct my cats unless you count holding them by the back of their neck skin to cut their nails (which vets even do). But dogs are a *completely* different breed and need completely different rules and discipline. Mine is driving me up the wall because we are all cramped in here. She's never stolen my food, but I think I would go hoarse from screeching if she did.

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is online now  
#24 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 02:30 PM
 
snowmom11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
So are you going to stop hitting the dogs now?
Is this kind of response really helpful? It seems awfully snotty to me. She obviously realized that she had made a mistake.
snowmom11 is offline  
#25 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
blessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmom11 View Post
Is this kind of response really helpful? It seems awfully snotty to me. She obviously realized that she had made a mistake.
I had to quit looking at it. It made me want to beat my dog :.

blessed is offline  
#26 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 04:44 PM
 
chfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: in a red state
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have no opinion on how folks train their dogs...but I loved reading about the monks at New Skete and their dog training program. It's got DVDs and everything....

http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/puppies/dg.html
chfriend is offline  
#27 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 04:48 PM
 
thismama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nursing the revolution
Posts: 14,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
I had to quit looking at it. It made me want to beat my dog :.



I have to hand it to you blessed, you have brass ovaries to post some of the stuff you do here! Bravo.
thismama is offline  
#28 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 05:12 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: raising the revolution
Posts: 4,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow yeah, let's condemn hitting people but advocate and share our dog-hitting stories!

Awesome!

Quote:
Interestingly those replies do absolutely nothing to motivate me to work harder on self control. In fact, they make me feel the complete opposite:
Personal accountability is a wonderful thing. No one else chooses to hit your dog or chooses to stop hitting your dog but YOU.

I am not an advocate for physical force on ANY being, dog or child or adult or anyone who lives and breathes unless it is an unquestionable act of self defense.

In all this talk about the "natural" behaviors of dogs -- newsflash: dogs like food.
captain crunchy is offline  
#29 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 05:16 PM
 
ShaggyDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
In all this talk about the "natural" behaviors of dogs -- newsflash: dogs like food.
I am not trying to argue, I don't think hitting dogs is right, but I do feel communicating on their level is apropriate. Dogs like order and a chain of command MORE than they like food, seriously.
ShaggyDaddy is offline  
#30 of 86 Old 08-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: raising the revolution
Posts: 4,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I haven't observed many pack dogs smacking eachother's @sses lately either so....
captain crunchy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off