Seeing a child get spanked in public - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dex_millie View Post
Call the police: What the hell: Fill abuse charges::

************Don't think I was advocating or defending physical punishment but I will take this paragraph out, just giving an example of not to judge everyone who smack on the hand*************

************I do plan on practicing it. But some of yall act like all spankers is the same, and all are abusive. That is all some people knew how children are to be raised and some really believed in it.

That is not to say that I also don't get some good tips from here. I just believe that sometimes the word 'abusive, abusers' are used lightly.
I know I might get flames for this but I guess this time I had to say something. Not all smacker on the hand people are abusers.

(bolding mine)

Proudly proclaiming that you plan on hitting your child on a board which is adamantly against hitting children is advocacy.
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#62 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:13 PM
 
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nm
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#63 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Blooming View Post
yuck. I'm sorry for that child. :

I hope that mother gets help.
which mother??? who are you talking about???
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#64 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:16 PM
 
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http://www.nospank.net/stang.htm

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An old civil rights slogan once advised, "Use your voice - silence is consent." This is very true when talking about a culturally accepted practice like spanking. It may be easier to keep silent, but when we do, hitters see that as consent to continue hitting their kids. So, the next time you are at a store, or a park, or a family reunion, and you see an adult assault a child, try one of these eleven suggestions. Let's not give consent to any more violence against children.
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#65 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
(bolding mine)

Proudly proclaiming that you plan on hitting your child on a board which is adamantly against hitting children is advocacy.
I can't believe the way you (and the other poster) are deliberately misconstruing this woman's post, which reads differently because she deleted parts so no one would think she was "defending physical punishment."

The poster in question plans to practice gentle discipline. Period.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#66 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:26 PM
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# Intervene early. If you see a confrontation between parent and child escalating, step in. Parents may hit if they become frustrated with their child's behavior and feel pressure from onlookers to "make that kid behave." Your best bet is to try to validate the parent's frustration while normalizing the child's behavior. ("Looks like you're both having a long day. My little one used to get like that while we were holiday shopping.") If you know the parent, offer to watch the child for a few minutes while the parent regains emotional control.

This is the approach I usually take and have found it very effective.
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#67 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
I can't believe the way you (and the other poster) are deliberately misconstruing this woman's post, which reads differently because she deleted parts so no one would think she was "defending physical punishment."

The poster in question plans to practice gentle discipline. Period.
How I am I deliberately misconstruing her post? She plans on smacking her children's hands. I don't consider that gentle discipline and I think you will find *most* people in this forum, whether on the more authoritative side of GD or on the more consensual side will agree.

Slapping someone's hands is physical punishment. Plain and simple and it is not advocated on MDC.
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#68 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by funkygranolamama View Post
i don't AGREE with hand smacking, but i think if you called cops they would laugh at the report.
:

That said, I hate seeing children get spanked in public. It's so sad
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#69 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:29 PM
 
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My biggest problem with the situation is that the toddler was STANDING ON A CHAIR while the mother just sat there. Did no one else catch that?!
Well if that's bad parenting I guess I should be arrested and have my kids put in foster care immediately, as they are both climbers and I let them climb on things all the time. You can regularly see my 14 month old dancing on the kitchen table.

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#70 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:33 PM
 
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Well if that's bad parenting I guess I should be arrested and have my kids put in foster care immediately, as they are both climbers and I let them climb on things all the time. You can regularly see my 14 month old dancing on the kitchen table.
ds will climb chairs wherever we are, if hes not in danger or hurting someone..... who cares?
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#71 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Hitting a child is definitely an abusive act.

When I have seen it, I have said something to the parent, every time. It's not okay, and we need to not pretend it is.
I agree. I have only seen one child get spanked in public and I said something to her. I can't keep my mouth shut in situations like that. Spanking, slapping on the hand, any kind of hitting is abuse to me. I only wish our country would see it that way too.
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#72 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama View Post
If somebody slapped me, including on my hand, that is assaultive behaviour. You are quite right that it is worse to give somebody a black eye, but that doesn't mean slapping someone's hand is okay. I think it's interesting that our judgment of what constitutes harm is looser for children, and babies, than it is for adults. I think as regards physical assault, the standard should be exactly the same. Everyone has the right to dignity, bodily integrity, and freedom from intentional infliction of pain.
So if you saw an adult slap the back of another adult's hand, you'd call the police right away, then?

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#73 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:37 PM
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I let dd climb chairs too --- maybe the post was pointing out the ridiculousness of being okay with your toddler standing on a chair, then hitting them for reaching toward a plant on said chair. In other words, why does reaching for a plant (I might be off on the exact reason for the hitting) warrant hitting, but you are fine and dandy with standing on chairs.... pointing out it didn't make sense or pointing out that if you didn't want your kid reaching for the plant, that may have begun by redirecting them from the chair (rather than mixed messages and hitting)

That is sort of how I read it but I may be wrong.
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#74 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl View Post
Well if that's bad parenting I guess I should be arrested and have my kids put in foster care immediately, as they are both climbers and I let them climb on things all the time. You can regularly see my 14 month old dancing on the kitchen table.
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#75 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:40 PM
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You all let your kids climb on tables???
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#76 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by angieluvsramon View Post
which mother??? who are you talking about???
the mother in the waiting room who hit her child.
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#77 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl View Post
So if you saw an adult slap the back of another adult's hand, you'd call the police right away, then?
If I ascertained that the adult in question was hurt physically or emotionally from the exchange and it was not invited, wanted, and the person who was hit on the hand felt intimidated, or scared yes.

People go around saying, oh it doesn't hurt the child!! Why do it then? I mean, I am not at all advocating hitting, just the opposite. People hit children to hurt them. End of story. To hurt them enough to send a message that "what they did" was "wrong" and to deter them from doing it again by way of fear of getting hit again, fear of love withdrawal, fear of disapproval etc... . If popping or tapping or spanking or slapping hands or whatever pretty package you want to wrap an act of violence in is done as a means of deterring *bad* behavior by way of pain or fear (which is all hitting is really), it is not gentle in my book and no amount of protest to the contrary will change that.
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#78 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by angieluvsramon View Post

you cant change the world! She is trying to say we should not pass judgment on other people and sometimes there is just nothing we could do! As for if she saw a man hitting a woman in public that is against the law...Spanking your child is not against the law and in most cases not physically harmful, just hurts their feelings (which isnt any better) but that is reality. Unless sombody actually BEATS their kids
okay, but you are just proving a lot of people's points. hitting kids is not illegal, but it SHOULD be. what if the situation were reversed? kids were protected from hitting but women were not. then you'd have to say:

"hitting your wife is not against the law and in most cases is not physically harmful, just hurts their feelings (which isn't any better) but that is reality. unless somebody actually BEATS his wife"

sounds horrible, doesn't it? even if my DH hit me and it only hurt my feelings (as in no broken bones, no marks), most people would think he needs help. but a mama hitting her kid, that's just normal.

that is what people are saying is messed up. of course calling the cops on someone for a little smack on their kid seems weird, but that's because we are completely desensitized to this sort of subtle violence against kids.

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#79 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
I've read this whole thread, and I can't see where anyone here has defended physical punishment. If you're referring to the poster who shared how wonderful her parents were, in spite of sometimes using physical punishment (and yes, I saw her post before she deleted parts of it), I can't see how any of that could be construed as defending physical punishment.

I think you can defend people without condoning every. single. thing they do. How can we call ourselves GD if we're not willing to extend the GD attitude beyond our own families, and share the compassion with all the other people who lack the resources we have?

If your older child hits your younger, do you automatically call CPS to get services for him? Would CPS be your first resort in getting help for your child or yourself? If not, then why treat a complete stranger as any less human?

In response to the people who don't think it was over-the-top to call police on a mom who smacked her toddler's hand, because wouldn't we do the same if it happened to an adult -- no, I WOULDN'T call police if I saw a man smack his wife on the hand (or a wife smack her husband on the hand). I'd figure that was their deal.

And the analogy that it's okay to call the cops if your neighbor has a loud party, so why not to call CPS -- well, I see a few holes in that. Not that I'd call the cops over a loud party: keeping up good relations with my neighbors means more to me than the convenience of a quiet night. If I was really bugged, I'd just go over and ask them to quiet down.

But here's the difference between the disturbing the peace accusation and the child abuse accusation: the latter has more potential to devastate the accused and his/her family.

While I realize thismama's right in saying that CPS provides other services besides child removal -- from my understanding these services are not always offered as a free choice. Even in cases where the services really are optional, and the parents really don't have to sign the careplan, some caseworkers aren't careful to make sure the parents know they have a right to refuse ... then once the plan is signed, the parents are stuck with having to comply.

CPS may seem like a smorgasbord of help to some parents -- but some would rather select their own buffet, so to speak. I can think of lots of other people I'd rather turn to for help and counseling, than a CPS worker.

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#80 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 11:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by transylvania_mom View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex_millie
I do plan on practicing it.
that's really sad. So you are PLANNING to look in your child's eyes and HIT him?
No no no, she was referring to GD (prior to editing). She does plan to practice GD ("it"=GD, not hand slapping). Pronoun lacking antecedent.

What dex_millie was saying is that she plans to practice GD, but finds the GD forum members' judgment of others unpleasant, so that she often doesn't come here.
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#81 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 11:17 PM
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Oh I thought she meant she planned on practicing hand slapping. That is how it reads to me. My apologies if I misunderstood her post. I stand by my feelings on hitting though, hand slapping or otherwise.
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#82 of 183 Old 11-17-2007, 11:23 PM
 
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but finds the GD forum members' judgment of others unpleasant, so that she often doesn't come here.
I find this ironic.
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#83 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 12:15 AM
 
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If I saw a child being spanked I would probably say to the parent:

"Hey! Do you need some help? You seem like you're losing control."
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#84 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 12:20 AM
 
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I don't know how to do the multi-post thing...so here goes....

geekthegirl: I make reasonable judgments all the time. If the parents who hit their children feel I am judging them to be parents engaging in behavior is that is morally wrong and a bad way to act, I'm okay with that. They can disagree if they like. But it doesn't change the fact that hitting is wrong and bad.

the poster who asked about getting on tables: I set up our lives so my kids can climb. I replaced a coffee table with one more stable so dd1 could dance on it.

the poster who responded to my musing about calling the cops on a loud party. What I actually said was that I could call the cops if my neighbors had a loud party and no one would criticize me. It disturbs my peace significantly more to see a child at the doctors office hit in front of me and my small child. Yet, I would be encouraged not to call the police. It's an interesting comparison.
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#85 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 12:46 AM
 
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So if you saw an adult slap the back of another adult's hand, you'd call the police right away, then?
Dude. I never said I would call the police. That is being misconstrued all over this thread although I already clarified that it was someone else who said they would call the police.

I would say something if a man slapped a woman's hand, in anger (not as a joke that was consensual etc). And I would call the police over probably anything more intensely assaultive than that.

I was simply saying that I think it's weird that we minimize assaulting children as no big deal, when the very same behaviour directed toward an adult would indeed be a big deal.

Hitting is abusive.
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#86 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 12:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
okay, but you are just proving a lot of people's points. hitting kids is not illegal, but it SHOULD be. what if the situation were reversed? kids were protected from hitting but women were not. then you'd have to say:

"hitting your wife is not against the law and in most cases is not physically harmful, just hurts their feelings (which isn't any better) but that is reality. unless somebody actually BEATS his wife"

sounds horrible, doesn't it? even if my DH hit me and it only hurt my feelings (as in no broken bones, no marks), most people would think he needs help. but a mama hitting her kid, that's just normal.
:
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#87 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 12:56 AM
 
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disclaimer: according to me, hitting a child is not acceptable behavior and the opinion expressed below is with regards to the OP's dilemma.

interesting to compare a loud party to someone spanking their child. a party is usually a planned event with someone organizing it with atleast some intent. spanking in public would differ from this in that people outside the situation do not know the context. in other words, we do not know if this is usually a loving mother who is in a bad place at that time, a mother with a difficult to manage child...though spanking is wrong and we instinctively want to react, some restraint is called for lest we are reaching to a wrong conclusion that the mother in question is an abuser. a trigger happy response such as calling the cops would assuage our feelings of outrage, but could have an adverse outcome for an otherwise innocent parent.
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#88 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 01:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
Oh I thought she meant she planned on practicing hand slapping. That is how it reads to me. My apologies if I misunderstood her post. I stand by my feelings on hitting though, hand slapping or otherwise.
that's what I thought too.

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#89 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 01:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama View Post
The family court system has nothing to do with spanking. It addressed custody and divorce issues.
Well, actually, in many areas the family court DOES address all issues concerning children. Juvenile delinquency, abuse/neglect cases, foster care, etc. Sort of a one-stop shop idea, one family, one judge. I could go on and on about how and why this change came about, but I won't bore you with all the details! On with the discussion!

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#90 of 183 Old 11-18-2007, 02:09 AM
 
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The issue of violence is tricky. My biggest concern with saying something to someone who is spanking their child is that they would be pissed at me and feel the need to defend their parenting further...hence more hitting.

With domestic violence, a woman can get in far more trouble with the abuser if it comes out in public in some way. Women often have to plan very carefully and privately their plans to get help...otherwise, the violence gets worse. You can call the police if you see a woman being hit but often she will lie for fear of further violence. It's a very delicate and difficult situation.

To me, regardless of the law, violence is wrong. Against anyone. I'm not sure what the best thing to do is, honestly. Speaking up can make the abuser more angry. It is a long process to healing when you act out violently toward others.

Just thinking off the top of my head, but I would like to see more parenting education/information brought up and offered when people are pregnant. Along with all of the birthing/nursing/etc. classes, I'd like to see classes offered for parenting...and plans to keep people tied into those opportunities throughout their journeys in parenting. It would be great if it became a natural part of pediatrician visits. I think education is everything. When you know better, you often do better.

And of course, more and better mental health and social services...but don't get me started on that!
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