When an adult punishes their child at your house - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
chicagomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: covered in cat hair
Posts: 3,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We had two kids over for a play date the other day, and at the end of the time one of the parents came to pick up the kids. I invited them in, and we chatted for a few minutes while the kids wound down. The parent wanted the children to help pick up (I really don't care about it, but the parent does), and one of them whined about it. So the parent marched the child into the kitchen (out of my view) and squirted soap into the child's mouth. I didn't know what was happening at first; I heard the child protesting softly and by the time I got into the kitchen it had already been done.

The parent is a friend of mine, and I don't want the children to not be able to come over anymore, but I was pretty upset by what they did, esp in *my* home, which I try hard to make a safe, peaceful place.

It's been a few days now, and I haven't said anything. WWYD? Would you let it go? Would you say something? I obviously can't control what they do outside our home, but I would like our home and our desire to be respectful of each other to be respected.

ETA these kids come to our house regularly, and I want them to continue to come over to play; they're wonderful kids.
chicagomom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 10:41 AM
 
imahappymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: We live in Westerville, OH
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
WHOA. That is so far over the line, I wouldn't know where to begin. Maybe start by mentioning all of the not-so-great chemicals that are in soap? Jesus. I'm sorry that you are in this position.
imahappymama is offline  
#3 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 10:42 AM
 
imatulip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You can't dictate how a parent is going to discipline their child, even in "your" home.
imatulip is offline  
#4 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
chicagomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: covered in cat hair
Posts: 3,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by imatulip View Post
You can't dictate how a parent is going to discipline their child, even in "your" home.
Well, first of all I don't dictate to anyone.

But second, I do think it's perfectly reasonable to be asked to respect the "house rules" while one is a guest in someone's home.

My question is not in the rightness of such a request. It is rather how to do it in a way that respects both the child and the parent and does not humiliate either of them.
chicagomom is offline  
#5 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:10 AM
 
cutekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: A mole hill.
Posts: 903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All of my friends know loud and clear that my house is a No Hitting house. This also includes anything I wouldn't use for my own children. They are happy to comply with my rules because they respect the way I parent.

Now what they do i their own house and in public is fine but in my house its just unacceptable.

Denise
cutekid is offline  
#6 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:11 AM
 
rmzbm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 15,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, YES I CAN dictate that child abuse not happen in my home! Discipline, abuse, hit, soap mouths, do whatever, no I CAN'T stop you - at your own place. You will NOT do those things in my home, in front of my children. I would have physically stopped that. And I wouldn't invite such nitwits back.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
rmzbm is offline  
#7 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:23 AM
 
Oliver'sMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmzbm View Post
Oh, YES I CAN dictate that child abuse not happen in my home! Discipline, abuse, hit, soap mouths, do whatever, no I CAN'T stop you - at your own place. You will NOT do those things in my home, in front of my children. I would have physically stopped that. And I wouldn't invite such nitwits back.

I totally agree with this. However, if this is the first offense, I would talk to the mother about our house rules and invite them over for another visit. If it happened again though, the mother would not be invited.

Enjoying life with DH since 05/04 and our two boys Oliver 02/07 and Theodore 07/10 
        
Oliver'sMom is offline  
#8 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 12:00 PM
 
mamaduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would call or have coffee with the parent. I would practise what to say, but it would be along the lines of, "It has been a couple of days, and I can't shake feeling upset about something that happened at my house when your child was over. I figured that since I am still upset about it, then I should probably bring it up to talk to you about before it has a chance to affect our friendship."
mamaduck is offline  
#9 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 12:24 PM
 
imatulip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
and other than not associating with this family again, how would you all "enforce" this? If you really want to get right down to it, sounds like you should have called CPS.
imatulip is offline  
#10 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 02:20 PM
 
moondiapers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lakeport, California
Posts: 5,912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by imatulip View Post
and other than not associating with this family again, how would you all "enforce" this? If you really want to get right down to it, sounds like you should have called CPS.
Read Mamaduck's post right about yours. This is the polite and adult way to handle it.

Heather married to my highschool sweetheart 6/7/02 :cop: Mother to Dani age 14 and Timmy age 10 Nadia 1/29 :
moondiapers is offline  
#11 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 02:33 PM
 
momuveight2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,375
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaduck View Post
I would call or have coffee with the parent. I would practise what to say, but it would be along the lines of, "It has been a couple of days, and I can't shake feeling upset about something that happened at my house when your child was over. I figured that since I am still upset about it, then I should probably bring it up to talk to you about before it has a chance to affect our friendship."
Yes, and understand that this mama must be feeling frustrated and not know any other way. So important to be loving and supportive while helping her to come up with other ideas. Whining can be hard to deal with and she may need some positive ideas and encouragement. I would not want to lose the friendship or come off as judgemental and make things worse for her and the kids.

Many people do think picking up is important so I would model a fun game at the end of play dates too like setting a timer or a silly song so we can all pick up together and then have a group hug or something to create a predictable pattern to help everyone transistion and know that it is time to go home.
momuveight2B is offline  
#12 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 02:52 PM
 
SleepyMamaBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Wa
Posts: 8,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
mamaduck has a great way to go about handling this one now.
for the future, maybe at the time of it happening, or if you see something like that about to happen you can step in ans say soemthing like, "in my home children are safe from being hurt by adults, i cant tell you how to raise your children, but i can stop you from hurting them in my home"

treehugger.gif )O( unschooling, witchy mum to Addy(7) and Niamh(4)
Living with an invisible chronic illness.
Fat and hairy. And happy with both *( o Y o )*
SleepyMamaBear is offline  
#13 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 02:58 PM
 
2shy2post's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: God's beautiful world!
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by imatulip View Post
You can't dictate how a parent is going to discipline their child, even in "your" home.
I would not allow someone to come to my home and smoke, drink, hit, curse, or anything else I think is either physically or emotionally damaging to my child. Technically, you are right ~ it's not our place to tell them someone how to behave ~ however, we can explain that we will not allow someone in our homes that behave a certain way.

That said, b/c what took place was out of view of your child (I think that's what I understood ), I agree w/PP's about gently speaking with the other mama. Though, I would also feel inclined to point out how dangerous the practice is ~ it's an old tradition that was probably done to that mama and sadly you only have in your repitoire what was given to you.

I think that you could respect her wish to have her child help pick-up ~ you might not care, but it's not a bad thing to teach children and it's quite respectful of those who have invited you over. It sounds more like the whining was the issue and she equated "bad mouth" with "punishing the mouth". (I don't agree, it just seems it's the connection that she made). Turning pick-up time into a game as PP suggested would be great.

If it can be worked out, probably the best thing you can do for this mama is model graceful/gentle parenting and hope she picks up a few things.
2shy2post is offline  
#14 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 03:03 PM
 
swellmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree with how mamaduck suggested you handle it. I know whenmy kids are over at someone home I insist they help clean up even if the other person says not to worry about it. They helped make the mess they will help clean it up. That said I would not wash their mouths out with soap for it, I would do hand over hand clean up. Of course I may have a few choice words for them about not returning if they can not help with the clean up once we were back in the car. I think that the pp who suggested calling CPS was going over board though. If you call cps on all your friends because you disagree with how they discipline you are going to have no friends left. Approaching them with your concerns is the best way to handle it.

Brandy Single momma to A(11), C(10), H(6) and I(2)
:
swellmomma is offline  
#15 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 04:09 PM
 
Breeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaduck View Post
I would call or have coffee with the parent. I would practise what to say, but it would be along the lines of, "It has been a couple of days, and I can't shake feeling upset about something that happened at my house when your child was over. I figured that since I am still upset about it, then I should probably bring it up to talk to you about before it has a chance to affect our friendship."
I think this is a perfect way to approach this. This may be the event that changes the way this woman thinks about discipline. You have the oppertunity to be a good friend and a good example to her.

Soap mouth is terrible. I can't believe someone would do that ESP AT SOMEONE ELSE'S HOUSE. It's unbelieveable.

Breeder Mama: = wife to an amazing man + mama to J-Bear (07/02) and E-Train (06/08), nanny to Little Bird (07/10).

Breeder is offline  
#16 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 05:22 PM
 
phathui5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by imatulip View Post
You can't dictate how a parent is going to discipline their child, even in "your" home.
Sure I can. It's my house. One of our rules here is no hitting of people. If someone wants to break that rule, whether it's a kid hitting someone or an adult, they can leave.

Same goes for wasting the soap.

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
14yo ds   11yo dd  9yo ds and 7yo ds and 2yo ds  
phathui5 is offline  
#17 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
chicagomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: covered in cat hair
Posts: 3,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks everyone. You're right, I was in another room - and I was so surprised by what happened I was literally speechless. I just didn't know what to say.

I like this person; they are in many ways a wonderful parent and I know they love children dearly. But I also believe my ground rules are worthy of respect, and never want a child to feel afraid or anxious to come over to our house.
chicagomom is offline  
#18 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 06:43 PM
 
anniedare's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'd like to throw into the conversation one of my first thoughts when I was reading about "house rules." These have always affected me as an adult since there are many family member's homes that my wife and I cannot frequent because of their house rules that "unmarried" couples not sleep in the same room under their roofs. Several other posters brought up uncontroversial negatives like drinking, smoking, hitting, etc. in the home but that's the first thing I thought of. This could be a situation where the mom does not feel like she is in the wrong at all (every single mom in my spooky neighborhood would be like this).

The reason that I think my thoughts are relevant is because any gentle conversation about what I'm allowed to do as an adult to be allowed into others' homes would definitely be taken wildly personally by me and put me on the super-defensive. I don't know how open this parent is to suggestions, because no matter how kind, you are setting up new rules for your relationship based on her behavior.
I don't think there's any way that this could be put to me that wouldn't be extremely off-putting. FWIW, I'm not sure I'd mention the soap unless I was prepared to lose the friendship and the playdates (ditto cps). I hope this isn't the case in your situation and she really was at her wit's end and didn't like what she felt she had to do either.

Perhaps you have some idea of how she will take this conversation that will help you decide or find the most gentle way to go about it?
anniedare is offline  
#19 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 10:04 PM
 
ruhbehka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by imatulip View Post
You can't dictate how a parent is going to discipline their child, even in "your" home.
Well, you can dictate what you are not comfortable with having happen in your home.

We let our friends who use physical punishment know that we are not ok with it happening in our home.

Edited to add: The way that we typically phrase it is, "You know that we do not use physical force to discipline our son, and that's because we are very uncomfortable with it. I respect that you are a thoughtful parent who has chosen to discipline the way you feel is best. I would ask you to please avoid using the types of discipline that you know make us uncomfortable when you are in our home, and in front of my children regardless of where we are. If there is anything we do that you'd rather not expose your children to, please feel free to let me know, as well.

Rebecca, mama to M (08/06) and E (04/09)
ruhbehka is offline  
#20 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 10:52 PM
 
senmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is their child, they have the right to punish thm as they see fit, where ever they happen to be. It is up to you whether to invite them back or not.
senmom is offline  
#21 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:35 PM
 
ruhbehka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by senmom View Post
It is their child, they have the right to punish thm as they see fit, where ever they happen to be. It is up to you whether to invite them back or not.
Yes, but it's my home and my children, and we have the right to request that people refrain from certain actions within our home. And also the right to insist that they leave, if they do not.

I would not let someone smoke in my home, although it is their right to smoke as they see fit. I would not let someone scream at their wife in my home, although that is also "their right."

Being a guest in my home comes with a few guidelines. You don't smoke here (my son has RAD), you treat others respectfully here, and you don't complain about my cooking here. Or I will politely show you to the door.

Rebecca, mama to M (08/06) and E (04/09)
ruhbehka is offline  
#22 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:40 PM
 
purple_kangaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The first thing that pops into my head to say would be something like this:

"Oh, dear! The soap in my house is not safe for a child to ingest . . . please don't put it in anyone's mouth. I wouldn't want to be responsible for anyone getting sick by eating my soap.

"Do you have special soap at your house that's safe to eat?"
purple_kangaroo is offline  
#23 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:47 PM
 
KBecks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree, get together with the other mom and let her know your feelings about the soap and how you feel that type of discipline is hurtful to her child. Then I'd suggest things that work for you, like making it a game, and how you don't mind if all the toys are not picked up. I'd make sure to complement her on how great her daughter is and say how she is a loving mom and end on a positive note. I'd empathize with her frustrations, but discourage and condemn the harsh responses and let her know she doesn't have to be that hard on her child.

Hugs and best of luck.
KBecks is offline  
#24 of 86 Old 12-29-2007, 11:59 PM
 
senmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruhbehka View Post
Yes, but it's my home and my children, and we have the right to request that people refrain from certain actions within our home. And also the right to insist that they leave, if they do not.

I would not let someone smoke in my home, although it is their right to smoke as they see fit. I would not let someone scream at their wife in my home, although that is also "their right."

Being a guest in my home comes with a few guidelines. You don't smoke here (my son has RAD), you treat others respectfully here, and you don't complain about my cooking here. Or I will politely show you to the door.
As I said before, it is their child, their right. Do not invite them back into your home.
senmom is offline  
#25 of 86 Old 12-30-2007, 12:11 AM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
THe soap thing is awful but why do people keep saying to the OP to stop inviting them?!

First off, she made it clear in her first post that she WOULD like the kids back, they are great kids.

Second, it seems to be punishing the kids even more for something that is NOT THEIR FAULT. So their *PARENT* disciplines them in a harsh and disrespectful way and now the kid doesn't get to see her kids? Where is the logic w/ that?!?

I agree w/ posters that tell you to talk to the mother and tell her it makes you really uncomfortable in your house.

Oh -and on a side note - calling CPS?! Seriously?!? They have more serious things to worry about, and as much as all of us on a NFL/AP site are highly upset about soap in the mouth, the parent is within their right to do this. "Soap in Mouth" does not fit the *LEGAL* definition of Abuse, Neglect or Exploitation. Let's keep this in perspective.
karina5 is offline  
#26 of 86 Old 12-30-2007, 12:21 AM
 
Dragonfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: On the Brink
Posts: 6,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
Oh -and on a side note - calling CPS?! Seriously?!? They have more serious things to worry about, and as much as all of us on a NFL/AP site are highly upset about soap in the mouth, the parent is within their right to do this. "Soap in Mouth" does not fit the *LEGAL* definition of Abuse, Neglect or Exploitation. Let's keep this in perspective.
It's my understanding that it is considered abuse in some places. In others, it's considered mistreatment which, while not likely to get a child removed, could be enough to subject the parents to inquiry. It should be considered abuse everywhere, IMO. In this time, when people know better and generally have better resources at their disposal, there is no excuse for that sort of mistreatment of children. Not to mention that soap can be toxic - even fatal for some children.
Dragonfly is offline  
#27 of 86 Old 12-30-2007, 12:24 AM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
It's my understanding that it is considered abuse in some places. In others, it's considered mistreatment which, while not likely to get a child removed, could be enough to subject the parents to inquiry. It should be considered abuse everywhere, IMO. In this time, when people know better and generally have better resources at their disposal, there is no excuse for that sort of mistreatment of children. Not to mention that soap can be toxic - even fatal for some children.


Well maybe that is the case in some places, I don't know, I'm not a CPS expert for all states. I still think it would be a bad idea.
karina5 is offline  
#28 of 86 Old 12-30-2007, 12:27 AM
 
AnnaGA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree that it is horrible to squirt soap into a child's mouth and I would not want it to happen in my home...but I don't think cutting them off would be effective. This mom needs to be consistent in her discipline or else her kids will soon realize they can get away with certain things at the OP's home that they can't get away with at home. This will cause a lot of conflict eventually. What needs to happen is that her whole idea of discipline needs to change. She shouldn't EVER be using soap mouth as a form of discipline ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.

chicagomom - I totally agree with mamaduck's suggestion that you get together and talk about how uncomfortable it made you, and perhaps suggest alternative methods of discipline if she's open to it. You obviously want the kids to remain playmates and you seem to respect the other mom, so try to talk to her one-on-one. I hope she takes it well and opens her heart and mind to really hear what you're saying.
AnnaGA is offline  
#29 of 86 Old 12-30-2007, 12:28 AM
 
prettypixels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 2,622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
It's my understanding that it is considered abuse in some places. In others, it's considered mistreatment which, while not likely to get a child removed, could be enough to subject the parents to inquiry. It should be considered abuse everywhere, IMO. In this time, when people know better and generally have better resources at their disposal, there is no excuse for that sort of mistreatment of children. Not to mention that soap can be toxic - even fatal for some children.
Did you hear about poor little baby Grace? (Riley) She was beaten to death for disobeying at 2 years old. THAT is the kind of child CPS should help.

Not that I don't think soap in the mouth is wrong, I find it horrible. But I know CPS has their hands full with *extreme* cases of abuse and I think we should allow them to focus on those cases.

That said, I agree with all the commenters who say you should talk to her. But I also agree that it might put her on the defensive and make her not want to be friends anymore. It really is a tough spot to be in.
prettypixels is offline  
#30 of 86 Old 12-30-2007, 12:31 AM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Not that I don't think soap in the mouth is wrong, I find it horrible. But I know CPS has their hands full with *extreme* cases of abuse and I think we should allow them to focus on those cases.


Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel, which is why I said what I did.
karina5 is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off