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#181 of 188 Old 02-02-2008, 12:25 AM
 
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Well, I have been feeling wrong all day about calling you lovely folks lunatics. Last night, in the midst of my reality clashing with more normal realities, it felt accurate, but after a few hours sleep I realized very clearly that calling anyone here a lunatic is completely inappropriate. I am feeling regret about my disrespectful language, because it did not communicate how much I respect and see the validity of all the articulate thinking everyone in this thread has been doing. I apologize.

I agree that it is incredibly empowering to see possibilities in a situation rather than rigidly resist out of fear and/or habit. And yes, in most regular situations we do have a choice about the circumstance we're in. But what I said before, about accompanying my child through an experience seeming the most helpful choice in grocery store situations, too, remains true for me. I don't advocate ignoring a child's needs, but it also seems to me that the solution is not total need management, either. I am having trouble seeing the articulation of a middle ground in this conversation, but a middle ground is just what seems to do *my* son the most good, even in non-medical situations. He responds better and with more engagement to gentle reflection of his feelings and of the situation, rather than solutions or avoidance of the circumstance. I've noticed this particularly since our latest spate of medical issues -- these days he seems to shoot down every problem solving attempt, searching instead for the expression of the unsolvable, relaxing only when we quietly witness the situation with him, noticing with patient interest just how everything seems to be for him. This goes for anything, from how his cheese chunks are too big to how scared he is of something medical. Problem-solving, changing the situation, seems to actually make it worse. What he needs is quiet, interested attention, and then he tends to engage his own resources at that point. Of course, not always. But if something is going to help, it's going to be interested, nonreactive attention instead of problem solving.

I don't find myself thinking that the mom in the bookstore didn't really need to buy books; that sort of doesn't matter to me. The fact is that she *was* buying books, and her child was tired, and they were both having a difficult time. This doesn't seem like an un-worthwhile situation to be in, nor one to be concerned about. It just seems challenging, and I'm sure they're both up to the challenge if they engage the right resources. I mean, this is life, right? (I don't mean that in a "tough" sort of way, but rather a "wow, look what's happening, let's see what happens next -- by the way, do you need to hold my hand?" sort of way.)

I'm feeling sort of off topic here, and having a bit of trouble capturing exactly what I want to say. I think we seem to all agree that the lesson to teach our kids is not that everything can be solved, but that we have the resources to deal with it whether it can be solved or not. I think our differences may lie in what we ask our kids to engage their resources about.

Does that feel accurate to you all?

P.S. Also, I want to assure folks that my son is doing fine. The surgery and hospitalization was over the holidays, and he is now home and recovering well, thankfully. Our lives are different, and involve more middle of the night medical issues, but we are doing fine. Thank you for your good thoughts.

Mama to two sweet boys, a 7yo superhero.gif and a toddler coolshine.gif.
 

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein

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#182 of 188 Old 02-02-2008, 01:44 AM
 
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Yes, mbravebird. Well said.


I wonder what that mother in that bookstore would think if she knew that she and her child had inspired 10 pages of philisophizing?

DS 12/22/05 and DD 5/24/09
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#183 of 188 Old 02-02-2008, 05:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mbravebird View Post
I don't find myself thinking that the mom in the bookstore didn't really need to buy books; that sort of doesn't matter to me. The fact is that she *was* buying books, and her child was tired, and they were both having a difficult time. This doesn't seem like an un-worthwhile situation to be in, nor one to be concerned about. It just seems challenging, and I'm sure they're both up to the challenge if they engage the right resources. I mean, this is life, right? (I don't mean that in a "tough" sort of way, but rather a "wow, look what's happening, let's see what happens next -- by the way, do you need to hold my hand?" sort of way.)

I'm feeling sort of off topic here, and having a bit of trouble capturing exactly what I want to say. I think we seem to all agree that the lesson to teach our kids is not that everything can be solved, but that we have the resources to deal with it whether it can be solved or not. I think our differences may lie in what we ask our kids to engage their resources about.

Does that feel accurate to you all?

P.S. Also, I want to assure folks that my son is doing fine. The surgery and hospitalization was over the holidays, and he is now home and recovering well, thankfully. Our lives are different, and involve more middle of the night medical issues, but we are doing fine. Thank you for your good thoughts.
Actually, of most of the posts on this thread, I found yours to be quite reasonable. I would rather not make the mistake of assuming things from my incomplete understanding of someone's situation other than what I saw in a bookstore.

Glad to know your son is doing fine now. Sending good wishes your way.
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#184 of 188 Old 02-02-2008, 11:11 AM
 
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Yes, mbravebird. Well said.


I wonder what that mother in that bookstore would think if she knew that she and her child had inspired 10 pages of philisophizing?
yeah, especially since the original intent of the thread was about the OP's own personal parenting journey, not really about the lady in the book store

mbravebird~glad your son is ok

Sledge~wise as usual

Mammal_mama..I agree, that is an amazing amount of choice

What a great and thought provoking thread
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#185 of 188 Old 02-02-2008, 11:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mbravebird View Post
I don't find myself thinking that the mom in the bookstore didn't really need to buy books; that sort of doesn't matter to me. The fact is that she *was* buying books, and her child was tired, and they were both having a difficult time. This doesn't seem like an un-worthwhile situation to be in, nor one to be concerned about. It just seems challenging, and I'm sure they're both up to the challenge if they engage the right resources. I mean, this is life, right? (I don't mean that in a "tough" sort of way, but rather a "wow, look what's happening, let's see what happens next -- by the way, do you need to hold my hand?" sort of way.)
I doubt that there are any of us who haven't found ourselves in a similar situation (I have found myself there a lot, over the years). And at that point, once you're in it, it really doesn't matter (in an immediate way) what we could have done to avoid it--because we didn't avoid it, and here it is, we're in this difficult moment in all its glory. And we need to get through it, however it is that we choose to get through it, in whatever ways help us get through it. And not only is that okay, but there's a whole lot of learning (for parent and child) and connection to be had in those moments. It certainly is not un-worthwhile by any means.

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Originally Posted by mbravebird View Post
I think we seem to all agree that the lesson to teach our kids is not that everything can be solved, but that we have the resources to deal with it whether it can be solved or not. I think our differences may lie in what we ask our kids to engage their resources about.
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#186 of 188 Old 02-02-2008, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mbravebird View Post
He responds better and with more engagement to gentle reflection of his feelings and of the situation, rather than solutions or avoidance of the circumstance. I've noticed this particularly since our latest spate of medical issues -- these days he seems to shoot down every problem solving attempt, searching instead for the expression of the unsolvable, relaxing only when we quietly witness the situation with him, noticing with patient interest just how everything seems to be for him. This goes for anything, from how his cheese chunks are too big to how scared he is of something medical. Problem-solving, changing the situation, seems to actually make it worse. What he needs is quiet, interested attention, and then he tends to engage his own resources at that point. Of course, not always. But if something is going to help, it's going to be interested, nonreactive attention instead of problem solving.
You are such a wise mama!

You know, the way your son is, is the way I am, too, in the midst of a problem. I don't feel "helped" by some other person (even a dear loved one) coming in and "problem solving."

When people are willing to listen and empathize, rather than moving in to take over -- that shows their trust in us as people who have resources. We don't need someone else to figure everything out for us; we just need to know that we have their love and support as we get our bearings, and we need their strong hands to hold onto as we find our way.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#187 of 188 Old 02-05-2008, 11:24 PM
 
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Wow! You guys rock!!
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#188 of 188 Old 02-06-2008, 02:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mbravebird View Post
Well, I have been feeling wrong all day about calling you lovely folks lunatics. Last night, in the midst of my reality clashing with more normal realities, it felt accurate, but after a few hours sleep I realized very clearly that calling anyone here a lunatic is completely inappropriate. I am feeling regret about my disrespectful language, because it did not communicate how much I respect and see the validity of all the articulate thinking everyone in this thread has been doing. I apologize.
Actually, I found myself nodding through much of your post. Having to deal with life threatening illness kind of forces you (generic you of course ) to cut to the chase. You just don't necessarily have the luxury of negotiating every.little.thing. "Honey, where would you like the epi pen stick" (as dc turns blue with anaphylaxis) just ain't always an option. And BIG GIANT kudos to you for finding as much consensuality and empowering your DS as you clearly do. Way to go mama And I am so glad your LO is doing better .
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