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#61 of 85 Old 05-15-2008, 01:50 PM
 
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She is probably right about the crying for a minute thing, I have seen kids cry for about half a minute after their parents leave in the most heartbreaking type of cry every day and then once their parent is gone they are fine. I have also seen parents who drag out their leaving and their child has a complete meltdown once they actually do leave and has a hard time actually coping with them leaving. It may be that she sees your child having a very hard time once you are gone and the other children do just fine after their initial one minute of crying and she is trying to stand up for your child. It is very common for people to work around primarily kids to be blunt about telling parents what they see as in the child's best interest.
Agreed, to some respect. Many times when I was teaching, I would encourage the parents to make their goodbyes short, positive and upbeat. And yes, I would explain that a quick exit after that is generally the best thing. But I would ALWAYS encourage them to wait in the lobby, outside the door, etc. just to feel better, and reassure themselves, as well as to be sure child does okay transitioning. As a teacher, I have also seen how children can cry and fuss during a goodbye, and then be fine when the parent leaves. But this nursery worker did NOT explain that in a gentle way, or offer any support/encouragement at all...that is totally different, and would really make me uncomfortable. Especially with the rough handling, the condescending views of breastfeeding, and the attitude in general....yikes!
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#62 of 85 Old 05-15-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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OP, I don't think anyone can make a definite decision about what you should do, but I urge you to talk to whomever oversees the childcare at your church. The worker sounds terrible your apprehension about leaving your dd in the nursery seems legit to me. I hate to add some responsibility to you, but I think you owe it to your church to make your voice heard. Think of it as advocating for all of the children, not just your own. Even a simple email could be very effective.
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#63 of 85 Old 05-15-2008, 02:15 PM
 
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Agreed, to some respect. Many times when I was teaching, I would encourage the parents to make their goodbyes short, positive and upbeat. And yes, I would explain that a quick exit after that is generally the best thing. But I would ALWAYS encourage them to wait in the lobby, outside the door, etc. just to feel better, and reassure themselves, as well as to be sure child does okay transitioning. As a teacher, I have also seen how children can cry and fuss during a goodbye, and then be fine when the parent leaves. But this nursery worker did NOT explain that in a gentle way, or offer any support/encouragement at all...that is totally different, and would really make me uncomfortable. Especially with the rough handling, the condescending views of breastfeeding, and the attitude in general....yikes!

I think that parents KNOW what the best thing is for their child.
Some kids need a longer goodbye, others are fine without it. I have seen children from the same family be both ways...so it isn't alway caused by the parent IMO.


.
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#64 of 85 Old 05-15-2008, 03:34 PM
 
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I think that parents KNOW what the best thing is for their child.
Some kids need a longer goodbye, others are fine without it. I have seen children from the same family be both ways...so it isn't alway caused by the parent IMO.


.
It doesn't sound as if mama2mason is suggesting otherwise. My dd's very wonderful teachers (not church) do request this same thing of the parents. But they do it in a VERY gentle way, WAY before the fact - like during our orientation before we even committed to allowing dd to attend the program. And, I've found that they're pretty much right on, at least in our case. That said, they also allow us to stay for the entire time should we want to/need to (they do ask that we sit against the wall and observe instead of participate so much, which I respect also). There's even the opportunity to observe through a one-way mirror (which I LOVE to do!).

The whole point is that whatever the policy or the idea behind the policy about child drop-off, it shouldn't be rudely announced during the heat of the moment. Parents should have access to that information in advance so that they can make their decisions about what's best for their child - in advance. Also, the delivery of such policies should be gentle (ever heard of Christ-like lady?), and not followed immediately by insulting comments about one's other parenting decisions. I think that's key here, it's not so much what the church's policies are but more the fact that there doesn't seem to be a culture of respect for parents and children. Policies aren't the problem per se, it's the people. KWIM?

Wendy ~ mom to VeeGee (6/05), who has PRS, Apraxia, SPD, VPI, a G-Tube, 14q duplication, and is a delightful little pistol! I'm an English professor and a writer.
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#65 of 85 Old 05-15-2008, 03:36 PM
 
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I wholeheartedly agree with this. As an Early Childhood Educator, Child Development Associate, Montessori Directress, and mom, it REALLY bothers me that the majority of church nurseries have no requirements for education and/or experience. And, with all due respect to religions of all kinds, just because someone is religious doesn't make them necessarily a "good" person. Just because someone is a member of your church doesn't mean they are qualified to care for young children, nor does it mean that they have a clear criminal background, etc. We prefer to keep our child with us during services, and thus seek out a church that welcomes and embraces that. I agree with pp, I wouldn't leave my child in that environment.
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#66 of 85 Old 05-15-2008, 11:26 PM
 
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I think that parents KNOW what the best thing is for their child.
Some kids need a longer goodbye, others are fine without it. I have seen children from the same family be both ways...so it isn't alway caused by the parent IMO.


.
Whoa! I wasn't in ANY way suggesting that ANYTHING was CAUSED by a parent...at all....by saying a quick exit is better, I only meant that I have seen parents be the ones with the separation issue, and by dragging out the goodbye "Mommy's going to miss you, etc etc etc" they actually ADD to the child's anxiety. And even without that component, ten years viewing things from the classroom perspective has shown me that students do MUCH better, adjust much more easily and readily, and feel more confident when their parent says goodbye (not sneaks out), is positive and upbeat, and makes the goodbye free of an emotional charge. Even if that meant the parent stifled their own separation issues, tears, etc. until out of view of the child. Children so easily pick up on the emotional cues we give them, so if we act like the separation is something to be sad about, worried about, etc. then we project those feelings on to the children. Of COURSE as a mom, I believe that I know what's best for my child. But I also know that when I drop him somewhere, he will feed off of my energy, and so I am loving and reassuring, but also very positive...without making the goodbye a long, drawn out thing that holds more drama than it needs to. This was simply an anecdote of my past experiences, nothing more. If you read my entire post, you saw that I disagreed with the behavior of this nursery volunteer. And as for those kids who need a longer goodbye, that's why I told parents to stay close by (lobby, parking lot, etc.) As a teacher, I wasn't in the business of making kids miserable, or making their drop-offs traumatic. Obviously if a child needed a different kind of transition, that's something that I worked with the parent to figure out. As another poster stated, this was all done up front, upon enrollment, and there was much explanation and discussion behind it. I'm sorry if my post was misinterpreted, but I was in NO way suggesting that parents don't know what is best for their child.
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#67 of 85 Old 05-15-2008, 11:27 PM
 
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It doesn't sound as if mama2mason is suggesting otherwise. My dd's very wonderful teachers (not church) do request this same thing of the parents. But they do it in a VERY gentle way, WAY before the fact - like during our orientation before we even committed to allowing dd to attend the program. And, I've found that they're pretty much right on, at least in our case. That said, they also allow us to stay for the entire time should we want to/need to (they do ask that we sit against the wall and observe instead of participate so much, which I respect also). There's even the opportunity to observe through a one-way mirror (which I LOVE to do!).

The whole point is that whatever the policy or the idea behind the policy about child drop-off, it shouldn't be rudely announced during the heat of the moment. Parents should have access to that information in advance so that they can make their decisions about what's best for their child - in advance. Also, the delivery of such policies should be gentle (ever heard of Christ-like lady?), and not followed immediately by insulting comments about one's other parenting decisions. I think that's key here, it's not so much what the church's policies are but more the fact that there doesn't seem to be a culture of respect for parents and children. Policies aren't the problem per se, it's the people. KWIM?
Well stated mama, and thanks for the support!
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#68 of 85 Old 05-16-2008, 01:55 AM
 
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i just wouldn't leave her there again... i'd find a new church.
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#69 of 85 Old 05-18-2008, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am going to go with her to the nursery tommorow. If we have the same problems over then I will be talking with the childrens pastor.

I have thought about it a bit. Maybe that lady was having a more "off" day. Perhaps I am over senstive......We will see. If she is still rough...
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#70 of 85 Old 05-18-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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I hope it was an anomaly, however, I don't think it's a bad idea to ask the pastor about the church's policies. If they don't have any, it might put a bug in his ear and put him on notice that it might be a comfort to the parents for that to be provided.

And, though she might have been having an "off" day, the comments about bf don't just come out of the blue.

I hope you had a peaceful and joyful time at church today!

Wendy ~ mom to VeeGee (6/05), who has PRS, Apraxia, SPD, VPI, a G-Tube, 14q duplication, and is a delightful little pistol! I'm an English professor and a writer.
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#71 of 85 Old 05-18-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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I think you have to decide your comfort level with whether you can live with the way this nursery worker is, or if you prefer to keep your child with you in church and skip the nursery.

I think the nursery person frankly can make suggestions to how you should handle separation, but it is ultimately up to you to decide. I think it was absolutely rude of her to criticize BF while you were sitting there nursing, and I think that is a sign of disrespect for your parenting.

If you try the nursery again, I think I would see if you can buddy up with one of the other nursery people to help your daughter transition. How old is she? I didn't catch that. It sounds like she is potty trained though, so she should be old enough to be able to handle the separation. You may want to give her more experiences with managing while you are away.... but frankly, this nursery doesn't sound like the right environment for you and her to get that practice. It depends..... the lead worker sounds harsh. But it depends on your overall impression of the nursery and your comfort level.

I would have no hesitation skipping church nursery and keeping my children with me in church if I felt uncomfortable with the care.

Lastly, perhaps you can connect with the caregivers/teachers in the other child care room and see if they can help you with the separation as well. It does take practice.

I was OK with leaving my kids to cry a little, and my 21 month old separates from me no problem. They do adjust after a few minutes, but while I agree with the caregiver's POV, I hate how rude she was to you and I would feel uncomfortable with someone who treated me that way.

HTH. Good luck with whatever you choose.

ETA: I don't think that this is such a big deal to bring it up to the pastoral staff, unless you have seen the worker be especially rough with the kids. Separation is difficult. She was rude to you and I would consider telling her to her face that you nurse as you want and that her remarks were rude and uncalled for. You can also reiterate that you will handle separation as you are comfortable. If she gives you further attitude, I would absolutely discontinue going to that nursery, because I won't leave my kids with people who don't respect my role as parent. I would tell other parents I was close with about my discomfort, but other parents (like me even) are OK with crying during that adjustment.

EATA: I wonder if you can find other avenues for your DD's play experiences, like a playgroup, or play dates, or a parent/child toddler class where the kids play together and the parents can relax a bit. There must be other opportunities for your DD to get time with other kids. Good luck!
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#72 of 85 Old 07-11-2008, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I sent this thread to the pastor anonymously.

Since then the women has not worked in the nursery one time. I have nursed openly and NO ONE has said anything negative. Some of the little girls are nursing the dolls now to.

I do stay in most Sundays, even took over the 2 year old class when they had a teen watching and not interacting with them at all. He was just texting. The lady who was in charge told me she was thankful.

They are still encouraging me to leave however, so last week I did leave only to have them come and get me 10 minutes later. One of the ladies did say that perhaps I was right in not leaving her.

The video player is still going but now they ONLY have little kids christian music vids playing not cartoons with no moral/relgious/value driven promo.

On an intersting note and no how related I notticed a VERY pretty crib in the baby room. I asked about it and apparetnly a baby in the church died of SIDS and the mom donated it to the church. Well the lady explaining it said that the death promoted many of the moms to co-sleep, fearing they would not hear the baby if they were in distress. I pointed out it is called "crib" death and not co-sleeping death. The mom agreed and whispered that her 4 year old still sleeps with them.

So all in all things are looking up.
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#73 of 85 Old 07-11-2008, 04:30 PM
 
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And very common for them to be completely wrong. No way would I leave my kid again. Especially if their way of handling a potty accident is to put the kid in a diaper without mentioning it to mom.

These years go by quickly. Go for the part of the service you enjoy, play outside or around the grounds until the service is over, stay for the social part and catch the part you missed on the internet.

Honestly, the nursery folks sound like asshats to me, but that's jmho. I wouldn't want them influencing my kid's early feelings about church.
:

this is exactly why i don't go to church. I refuse to leave my kids anywhere they aren't totally comfortable. Most church people around my parts don't like the way i do much of anything, and the feeling is mutual. So i don't really see why i should go. If you just go for the preaching,and you can get that on the net,then ...............
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#74 of 85 Old 07-12-2008, 09:29 AM
 
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I sent this thread to the pastor anonymously.

Since then the women has not worked in the nursery one time. I have nursed openly and NO ONE has said anything negative. Some of the little girls are nursing the dolls now to.

I do stay in most Sundays, even took over the 2 year old class when they had a teen watching and not interacting with them at all. He was just texting. The lady who was in charge told me she was thankful.

They are still encouraging me to leave however, so last week I did leave only to have them come and get me 10 minutes later. One of the ladies did say that perhaps I was right in not leaving her.

The video player is still going but now they ONLY have little kids christian music vids playing not cartoons with no moral/relgious/value driven promo.

On an intersting note and no how related I notticed a VERY pretty crib in the baby room. I asked about it and apparetnly a baby in the church died of SIDS and the mom donated it to the church. Well the lady explaining it said that the death promoted many of the moms to co-sleep, fearing they would not hear the baby if they were in distress. I pointed out it is called "crib" death and not co-sleeping death. The mom agreed and whispered that her 4 year old still sleeps with them.

So all in all things are looking up.
Yay! I'm glad for you! I like to hear how things turn out, thanks for updating us!

Hehe, the secret society of co-sleeping!

Mama to 2 year old and :: June 14th!
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#75 of 85 Old 07-12-2008, 09:34 AM
 
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I sent this thread to the pastor anonymously.

Since then the women has not worked in the nursery one time.
that is brilliant!!!! well done! i'm sure the pastor was

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#76 of 85 Old 07-13-2008, 01:06 AM
 
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Christina, I'm really glad to read that you worked it out and didn't let this one lady stop you from going to your church.

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13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#77 of 85 Old 07-13-2008, 02:04 AM
 
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Truthfully I don't see where the child was in any danger of being mistreated. The OP didn't like the way *she* was treated, and that's a valid concern. Some parents - me, for example - wouldn't want to be told each time Kate cries, so I don't view that as any kind of child abuse. I assume if she falls, she'll cry and that someone will take care of it. I only need to be told or retrieved from service if she's inconsolable. The BF comment was rude, but that's the end of it. She's not going to be BF the OP's child anyway.
Many of us parents DO want to know if our child is left crying, especially a young child.

I annoy the nursery workers at my Church every sunday by staying, but our son's comfort is more important to me than the nursery worker's, I don't want him associating Church with being abandonned to people who don't care if he cries, and our own nursery handbook says parents should be allowed to attend with their children until they are acclimated. This is a Church, for Pete's sake, not a preschool. People should be compassionate and accomodating for AT LEAST the hours they spend in God's house.
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#78 of 85 Old 07-13-2008, 02:10 AM
 
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But if the nursery worker has seen this child have a pattern of not being able to adjust and she is trying to stand up for what she believes to be in the child's best interest then I don't think she is being an ass. Her personal belief on breastfeeding is way off and she shouldn't have shared it, she should also have been more tactful if that is what is going on, but there is only one side of the story being shared on this board and there are two sides to all stories. Assuming that the parent is the only one that is right in all cases just because they know their child is stupid. Children act differently in childcare than they do at home, sometimes dramatically differently and the only one that can tell you how your child is acting in childcare is the caregiver. It sounds like this lady does need to work on being blunt about what is going on with the child during the time she is there, but that is not an easy skill even for professional caregivers. Even my daughter's teachers have a hard time expressing themselves accurately when they have not had time to form what they are saying, she should have waited to speak until she planned what she wanted to say but that doesn't mean that there isn't something going on that the parent needs to know about.
I have a hard time understanding why anyone on a Mothering Magazine board would believe that a nursery worker could EVER understand a child better than her own mother.

If you are not comfortable with your child crying for even a minute, you have a right to not want it. I don't like my son crying, either. Sometimes I have to let him - he does not get to play with that sharp tool no matter how hard he cries. But if it isn't necessary, I'm not going to make him go through it, and I don't see why a mother needs to leave her child to cry if she knows from experience that she can make a different transition with her child.
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#79 of 85 Old 07-13-2008, 02:20 AM
 
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So all in all things are looking up.
What a relief! Thank goodness!
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#80 of 85 Old 07-13-2008, 09:59 PM
 
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I have been in a similar situation at church with my (now) 3.5 year old. He doesn't separate easily, so either my dh or I stayed with him in the nursery until he was suppose to start Sunday school at 3. He still wouldn't separate, so I stopped going to church. He isn't the type of child who could sit in a service- we tried that at another church and it was a disaster. He was too loud even for the *crying room*, and far too unhappy. We encounter disapproving people ALL THE TIME. We are always told we are being *manipulated* by him, we've stunted his emotional growth, he's *spoiled* blah, blah, blah.
I would never leave my child with people I didn't trust. If you are comfortable with the care, but not the comments, I often reply to unsolicited advice with, *Thank you for your concern, however, I know my child best.*
Good luck.
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#81 of 85 Old 07-14-2008, 03:06 AM
 
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OP, good for you! I am glad you are advocating change in your church nursery. I am mainly writing to commiserate with you. I am having similar problems with 2 of my 3 girls in our church's preschool department so I can relate to your original post. I refuse to leave my 5 month old at all because we nurse on demand and the one time I left her they didn't come get me when she was crying. I went to check on her and she was strapped into a little rocker, hysterical. I was LIVID! So she stays with me all the time.

We tried talking to our preschool director but she pretty much blew me off so DH went to the pastor and he (our pastor) is going to sit down with this woman and spell it out. I hope that things will start to look up for us, as well.

Thanks for sticking it out at your church. I feel encouraged by you.
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#82 of 85 Old 07-14-2008, 04:35 AM
 
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I refuse to leave my 5 month old at all because we nurse on demand and the one time I left her they didn't come get me when she was crying. I went to check on her and she was strapped into a little rocker, hysterical. I was LIVID! So she stays with me all the time.

I would have yelled at that lady so loud the whole Church would have heard it. I try to act like a Christian but when it comes to my children I get mean!
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#83 of 85 Old 07-14-2008, 06:24 PM
 
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Me too! People like that make me want to them out. And I don't cuss or like hearing it.

Mama to 2 year old and :: June 14th!
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#84 of 85 Old 07-14-2008, 07:01 PM
 
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Is there anyone else at the church who could help you specifically with her? like a 10 year old girl who loves babies who can be responsible for just your child?
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#85 of 85 Old 07-16-2008, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My daughter is a mommas girl. She will play if I am around or scream if I am gone. No little girls who could help with her. Its me or scream. Well she is starting to warm up towards my sister a bit, but she works on Sunday.

Sounds horrible when I write it out like maybe she is spoiled. I prefer to think she just knows I love her and want what best. Soon she will hate me and think I know nothing. So for now I cherish that I am still her hero.
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