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#61 of 186 Old 09-12-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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I have perused this thread before and just joined the other day. On that day, I broached the subject with my 3yo DS1: "DS1, do you know what the word 'virtue' means? Virtues are what's good inside us [I read that on the Virtues Project website and thought it was great] -- things like respect, patience, gentleness... Let's practice our virtues together. We'll help each other. What do you think?" He responded so positively; it's made an immediate difference. : I'd say something like "practice your virtue of gentleness" (with his little brother) or, when he would take something from his brother "that was not virtuous. Please practice your virtue of gentleness and ask him for it first." He'd return whatever he took and ask him respectfully to trade or whatever.

This approach seems to really resonate with him. I hope we can build from here!

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#62 of 186 Old 09-13-2008, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by BonMaman View Post
I have perused this thread before and just joined the other day. On that day, I broached the subject with my 3yo DS1: "DS1, do you know what the word 'virtue' means? Virtues are what's good inside us [I read that on the Virtues Project website and thought it was great] -- things like respect, patience, gentleness... Let's practice our virtues together. We'll help each other. What do you think?" He responded so positively; it's made an immediate difference. : I'd say something like "practice your virtue of gentleness" (with his little brother) or, when he would take something from his brother "that was not virtuous. Please practice your virtue of gentleness and ask him for it first." He'd return whatever he took and ask him respectfully to trade or whatever.

This approach seems to really resonate with him. I hope we can build from here!
This is great! Your verbage is perfect, especially high-lighting that the desired behavior is a virtue, something I don't always do... I think I'll try to remember that.

Dh is on-board now too, committed to helping dd remember to use her virtues...

It's helpful, too, as BonMaman mentioned above, to remind our dc's that these virtues aren't new, but are already inside them, waiting to be used... We call them the "hidden gems within"...
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#63 of 186 Old 09-13-2008, 11:31 PM
 
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We have been doing a lot of talking. Mostly talking. They are SO receptive and fascinated by this. It's really really super cool. I told them we are basically putting names on things we already try to do so it's not so confusing. They LOVE it and I'm sure my little one who is almost 3 is getting it too.
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#64 of 186 Old 09-14-2008, 12:14 AM
 
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O well, we were doing great but I lost it tonight My DS (4 1/2)& DD(16 mo)were bathing in the tub together. My DD poured the whole bucket of water outside the tub all over the floor; It was like IKE hit our bathroom floor. I got a bit frustrated and couldn't say much to a 16 mo. So, few minutes later my DS does the same thing (copying her) and I just lost it (i guess mostly because I am suffering from a cold). I didn't know at that moment what virtue to call upon so.... Then felt bad for losing myself. My husband turned to me saying with sarcasm "positive parenting??????"

Do you lose it too? What would you do if you had the above scenario?
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#65 of 186 Old 09-14-2008, 09:50 PM
 
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Yes, I lose it too sometimes.

In similar situations, I talk about the effect the water has on the floor, that it can damage it and also make it slick, and so on. And sometimes I do lose it. When that happens, it's best just to apologize, give hugs, and go on. At least our kids get to see there's life after losing it.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#66 of 186 Old 09-16-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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We have a playgroup today. This is generally challenging. The kids are well rested, fed etc. so we are going to talk about the virtues we will need today and see how it goes.

I'll report back and get feedback later.
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#67 of 186 Old 09-16-2008, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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O well, we were doing great but I lost it tonight My DS (4 1/2)& DD(16 mo)were bathing in the tub together. My DD poured the whole bucket of water outside the tub all over the floor; It was like IKE hit our bathroom floor. I got a bit frustrated and couldn't say much to a 16 mo. So, few minutes later my DS does the same thing (copying her) and I just lost it (i guess mostly because I am suffering from a cold). I didn't know at that moment what virtue to call upon so.... Then felt bad for loosing myself. My husbad turned to me saying with sarcasm "positive parenting??????"

Do you lose it too? What would you do if you had the above scenario?
I lost it today, as a matter of fact...

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Yes, I lose it too sometimes.

In similar situations, I talk about the effect the water has on the floor, that it can damage it and also make it slick, and so on. And sometimes I do lose it. When that happens, it's best just to apologize, give hugs, and go on. At least our kids get to see there's life after losing it.
Indeed, all of that is true. A big one in our house (and in keeping with the theme of Cooperation as part of Respect) is Accountability. For all parties. That means that after I do lose it, I am accountable. I apologize, I acknowledge that I was not using my respect, or patience, and make a promise to try hard to work on remembering to be patient and gentle and respectful... love and hugs and kisses galore follow...

This models the important virtues involved in self-acceptance. Everyone makes mistakes, even moms. We all lose it, and we can all rebound. WHat better way for them to learn thatn to see that vulnerability in action?

Unity9, dd has in fact dumped an entire bucket of water out onto the bathroom floor... Arg!! : And I have had a come-apart about it. And then I foloowed with handing her a towel with a "Well, now we will cooperate to clean this up, because this much water could really wreck the floor, dd. So use your helpfulness, please." Then while cleaning it up, I asked if she felt like that was respecting our house, or being obedient, when she dumped the water out like that. (Obedient is defined in our house as doing as we are asked when we are asked to do it, so as to follow rules that keep us, our home, and people around us safe and sound.) And she says no, so I asked her "Well, do you plan to do this again? Because I really have a problem with it." "No, mama..." she said. "What virtues can you use next time, so this doesn't happen again?" "I will use respeck, Mama..." "What does that look like?" I asked. "It looks like no pouring water out on the floor, because that makes you angry..." I felt bad, thinking I'm transmitting the wrong message here... So I tried again. "Dd, I'm just angry at the mess and the time it takes to clean up, I'm angry that the floor might have rot from getting too wet. But I'm not really angry at you. I'm using my understanding, and I know that you didn't mean to trash the floor... but still you knew it would not be alright to dump the water out on the floor, and so I am frustrated. I understand that you didn't know what a mess it would make, how bad it can be for the floor, or how frustrated I would get. Please respect our house because you know now that this isn't ok, and you know why. Ok?" She said "OH! SO, respect the house, because it could get rot from getting wet?" Close enough, I thought. "Yes! You got it!" Hugs, kisses, and apologies from her for the mess, and from me for the barking reaction...

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Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
We have a playgroup today. This is generally challenging. The kids are well rested, fed etc. so we are going to talk about the virtues we will need today and see how it goes.

I'll report back and get feedback later.

I look forward to your report!!
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#68 of 186 Old 09-17-2008, 12:40 AM
 
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I lost it today, as a matter of fact...


Indeed, all of that is true. A big one in our house (and in keeping with the theme of Cooperation as part of Respect) is Accountability. For all parties. That means that after I do lose it, I am accountable. I apologize, I acknowledge that I was not using my respect, or patience, and make a promise to try hard to work on remembering to be patient and gentle and respectful... love and hugs and kisses galore follow...

This models the important virtues involved in self-acceptance. Everyone makes mistakes, even moms. We all lose it, and we can all rebound. WHat better way for them to learn thatn to see that vulnerability in action?

Unity9, dd has in fact dumped an entire bucket of water out onto the bathroom floor... Arg!! : And I have had a come-apart about it. And then I foloowed with handing her a towel with a "Well, now we will cooperate to clean this up, because this much water could really wreck the floor, dd. So use your helpfulness, please." Then while cleaning it up, I asked if she felt like that was respecting our house, or being obedient, when she dumped the water out like that. (Obedient is defined in our house as doing as we are asked when we are asked to do it, so as to follow rules that keep us, our home, and people around us safe and sound.) And she says no, so I asked her "Well, do you plan to do this again? Because I really have a problem with it." "No, mama..." she said. "What virtues can you use next time, so this doesn't happen again?" "I will use respeck, Mama..." "What does that look like?" I asked. "It looks like no pouring water out on the floor, because that makes you angry..." I felt bad, thinking I'm transmitting the wrong message here... So I tried again. "Dd, I'm just angry at the mess and the time it takes to clean up, I'm angry that the floor might have rot from getting too wet. But I'm not really angry at you. I'm using my understanding, and I know that you didn't mean to trash the floor... but still you knew it would not be alright to dump the water out on the floor, and so I am frustrated. I understand that you didn't know what a mess it would make, how bad it can be for the floor, or how frustrated I would get. Please respect our house because you know now that this isn't ok, and you know why. Ok?" She said "OH! SO, respect the house, because it could get rot from getting wet?" Close enough, I thought. "Yes! You got it!" Hugs, kisses, and apologies from her for the mess, and from me for the barking reaction...

Thank you PrennaMama for your feedback. So, you had the same situation, too!! So, frustrating! I usually tell DS to close the shower curtain if he wants to splash water. But that night was the first time anything like that happened
So, I wasn't prepared for it . Good for you that you ended in the right way. I love these discussions : I am learning so much. Thanks a lot PrennaMama

Actually, right now I am going through choosing parenting method crises
I have been trying to use L&L, UP, VP altogether. I have purchased books in those topics and read the forums especially this one. But as I do more reading and searching, I get more confused. There are some matters in each method (except for VP ) that I can't agree with. I wish I could just stick with one method and feel good about it. What do you all do? Do you use a combination of all those methods or just one?
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#69 of 186 Old 09-17-2008, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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<snip>
There are some matters in each method (except for VP ) that I can't agree with. I wish I could just stick with one method and feel good about it. What do you all do? Do you use a combination of all those methods or just one?
I use what speaks to me from each of the different teachings or styles I'm attracted to. I llike to look at each parenting philosophy and approach as a tool for my tool-kit. Where L&L fails me, I lean more heavily on CL modality. Where Faber and Mazlish leave me blank, I draw upon Playful Parenting. But underlying it all (at least, now, for our family) is the Virtues Project.
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#70 of 186 Old 09-17-2008, 03:57 AM
 
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Hi everyone! I love the idea of the VP and I'm definitely going to look into it more. Possibly also for DD's school. It sounds absolutely wonderful!

PrennaMama, we met at KateMary's house one time! I think it was her DD's b-day. We talked about how we're all Sag's and we were all born in the same year and I don't remember what else. Oh and how you worked for some Koreans... (this is all so random, sorry everyone.) I take it you are a Baha'i? I grew up Baha'i! I'm not anti Baha'i or anything now, but we stopped attending feasts and firesides and Baha'i school, etc for some reason when I was about 14 so I just fell out of it. It had a great positive impact on me though. I wish I still had my One People One Planet Please t-shirt.

I'll go back to lurking now, and checking out some of those links.
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#71 of 186 Old 09-17-2008, 08:57 AM
 
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Coming out. I've been lurking since the thread was started. I've been intrigued from the start. I have a 6 month old and was already pointing out virtues to him- now I have a whole list of them to look for in our day to day lives.

This is a quote of Yogi Bhajan's that really resonates with what I want to be as a parent
Quote:
Look at the animals. Have you watched birds build a home? They make the best homes. Without even hands, just with their beaks they put it together into a beautiful nest. Without all your sophisticated understanding, sensitivity, and subtlety, they can make a better home, and feed the young ones neither too little nor too much. Then they take the young ones and teach them to fly. They teach them the art and power of their genetic strength that came with them. Then they are happy and they let them go.

Do you teach each other as well as the birds do? Do you teach your children? Do you remind each child and say, 'BE THE GREATEST PERSON. BE A UNIVERSAL PERSON. BE VAST. LIVE LIGHTLY AND FORGIVE ALL. LISTEN. LOVE. LEARN. EXCEL. LIVE.
When Jahmari doesn't roll over and crawl away during pamper changes I tell him thank you for your cooperation

I love the idea of VP. I also like thanking LO's for using their virtues rather than praising. It is different right? I'm kind of fuzzy on that part of it. When Jahmari is trying to do something new what virtue can I call out instead of just saying 'GREAT JOB!'? Maybe 'great determination'

Thank you for this thread- VP is really resonating with me and feels like a great fit for my personality and what I want to encourage in my family. Can't wait to get my husband on board.
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#72 of 186 Old 09-19-2008, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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<snip>
PrennaMama, we met at KateMary's house one time! <snip>
I take it you are a Baha'i? <snip>
Hey LucyRev! Glad to see you here on the board! Yes, we declared as Baha'is a couple months before dd was born, and she was born on November 12. It was actually the Baha'i children we encountered and the VP approach to educating children that really spoke to us and drew us to the Baha'i Faith. We wanted to give her the gift of growing up in such an amazing community. The Virtues Project is such a great reflection of the diversity, expansiveness, forward thinking, and evolved way of relating to other cultures, other peoples, other faiths, that Baha'is embrace.

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Coming out. I've been lurking since the thread was started. I've been intrigued from the start. I have a 6 month old and was already pointing out virtues to him- now I have a whole list of them to look for in our day to day lives.

<snip>

When Jahmari doesn't roll over and crawl away during pamper changes I tell him thank you for your cooperation

I love the idea of VP. I also like thanking LO's for using their virtues rather than praising. It is different right? I'm kind of fuzzy on that part of it. When Jahmari is trying to do something new what virtue can I call out instead of just saying 'GREAT JOB!'? Maybe 'great determination'

Thank you for this thread- VP is really resonating with me and feels like a great fit for my personality and what I want to encourage in my family. Can't wait to get my husband on board.
Even just acknowledging his effort is a good way to support him, as in: "Wow, you are really trying to get up and walk. Go Jahmari, go!" or "I can see your determination, you have such focus."

One that I love using with dd is: "I didn't know you could do that!"
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#73 of 186 Old 09-19-2008, 12:49 PM
 
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Looks like the last post in this thread was about a month ago, but this has reminded about the Virtues Guide, which we were using for a while and then put away. I need to revise the way we were using it, though. We were having a family meeting every week and picking a virtue from the book. The problem is, we ended up only talking about the virtue that morning and not following through, using it the rest of the week. How would you recommend incorporating all of them into your week before you've gone over all of them? Do we need to really sit down and, like, do a virtue a day until we get them all just so that we're familiar with all of them, or stick with the one a week thing?
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#74 of 186 Old 09-19-2008, 01:48 PM
 
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My report.

Well we went to Mother Goose. Virtues helped a lot because the little one was horrid. But her sister was awesome. When my almost three year old started screaming on the way in that she wanted to go home I knew we were in for it. I said to my 5 year old "I really think we are going to have to use our virtues with M. today" and she said "we are going to need a lot of patience" and I said "and I'm going to need cooperation" and all the while little one is screaming "don't talk, stop talking, I want to go home"

So we get to Mother goose and it goes very well. Little one calms down and participates. Then it's time to leave. She won't leave, she's on the floor in a bundle, "I don't want to go home" and "I don't want those shoes" and so on. So we finally get her cooperating which means I carry her and big sis carries my stuff and then we get in the car and she screams all the way home "I want Mother Goose, don't want to go home"

So I held it together and 5 year old held it together We were very "virtuous"

Once we got home little one was fine, ate a HUGE lunch which is probably what the problem was, hunger although she ate a substantial breakfast before we left. But she is having a hunge growth spurt lately, gained 4lbs over the summer and still growing.

Today I have the little one home, all the others are at school so we are talking a lot today about virtues. She's in a great mood so far today, we did groceries and she was very patient and cooperative and respectful. She's not even three so she's still very little to be able to control her emotions yet.

I think it's going well overall!
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#75 of 186 Old 09-19-2008, 04:13 PM
 
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So glad that it went well at Mother Goose time!

I have been having great days but today has been downright horrible I don't even know where to begin. I had to bodily carry my almost 4 yr old out of playgroup today. I have had to do that only one other time in her life and then it was to remove her from a situation that I was tired of-not her fault. Today-it was due to not listening-in hindsight it is so silly. We were only staying for an hour-she ate a Nutrigrain bar and then came back and asked for another one as she already had it in her hand and was trying to open it.

I said no thank you-you have already had one (there weren't enough there for everyone to have 2-just one)

and then she said no i want it and continued trying to open it.

I said I see that you are hungry-we are leaving in a few minutes anyway-if you are hungry we will have lunch as soon as we get home (we live not even 5 min away)

she replied with "no-i want it"

I said again "no thank you, please hand me the bar back"

no (w. an attitude)

At which point I tell her I am going to take the bar if she doesn't hand it to me-she again refuses with an attitude and I pry it out of her little hands.

She then throws herself bodily on the ground and cries and screams and continues to have a tantrum. I tell her that we are leaving and to please go up the stairs-she refuses-I then pick her up, carry her up the stairs and put her in the car. I realize this is not the thing I should have been doing-it was one of those days. It started out bad-she was fine at breakfast and then I had to make a phone call and of course, all heck broke loose while on the phone which is what she typically does. I was tired of it and told her that she was not using her respect and patience and that she needed to be respectful if we were going to be around other people at playgroup. I told her we would be leaving if she was not respectful. When she started in with the attitude we left. I admit that I am sick and tired of her attitude. It has gotten a lot better, but today has been horrible. We then reconnected over lunch and had popcorn as a treat afterwards. However, she then started in with the attitude and not listening again -not washing her hands after going to the bathroom and walking away from me as I am asking her to go wash her hands-not going to budge on hygiene. Sorry this is so long. I am just so tired today. Thanks for listening. The virtues have been working great-just not today and I admit I think I have been too tired today to appropriately try to use them. She did say as we were pulling into our driveway after playgroup "I do not want to have a conversation when we go inside"-knowing I would talk to her about her behaviour at playgroup. Ugh. Why is 3 so difficult???
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#76 of 186 Old 09-20-2008, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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<snip> How would you recommend incorporating all of them into your week before you've gone over all of them? Do we need to really sit down and, like, do a virtue a day until we get them all just so that we're familiar with all of them, or stick with the one a week thing?
How old are your dc's? With younger children, I think it's less important to go over all the virtues, and more about just jumping right into the exploration of the verbage. We are currently in the midst of our first intensive, here on the thread, and a few of us have chosen to focus on the virtue of Respect, for a couple weeks, and the underlying Virtues involved in Respect, like Cooperation, Patience, Tolerance, and Understanding.

What that means is that we are working the verbage, using and defining the words, repeating them often, acknowledging them when we see them being used, and asking our dc's about what virtues they might need in certain scenarios, or ways we can use some of these tools in our tool-kit. This way, we're incorporating more examination of more Virtues, within the context of that one 'Virtue of the Week.'

With older kids, there are tools that can be used to really develope their understanding of the concepts defined by the Virtues. What is Respect? What does it look like? How does it feel? Why do we want it? How do we get it? How do we give it, and why do we give it? Some families have a Virtues Tree, and they hand the Virtues Cards up on the tree, and reflect as a family on a few a week, or a few a day, like over breakfast, and then follow up at dinner with a conversation about how each family member used those virtues today.

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My report.

Well we went to Mother Goose. Virtues helped a lot because the little one was horrid. But her sister was awesome. When my almost three year old started screaming on the way in that she wanted to go home I knew we were in for it. I said to my 5 year old "I really think we are going to have to use our virtues with M. today" and she said "we are going to need a lot of patience" and I said "and I'm going to need cooperation" and all the while little one is screaming "don't talk, stop talking, I want to go home"

So we get to Mother goose and it goes very well. Little one calms down and participates. Then it's time to leave. She won't leave, she's on the floor in a bundle, "I don't want to go home" and "I don't want those shoes" and so on. So we finally get her cooperating which means I carry her and big sis carries my stuff and then we get in the car and she screams all the way home "I want Mother Goose, don't want to go home"

So I held it together and 5 year old held it together We were very "virtuous"

Once we got home little one was fine, ate a HUGE lunch which is probably what the problem was, hunger although she ate a substantial breakfast before we left. But she is having a hunge growth spurt lately, gained 4lbs over the summer and still growing.

Today I have the little one home, all the others are at school so we are talking a lot today about virtues. She's in a great mood so far today, we did groceries and she was very patient and cooperative and respectful. She's not even three so she's still very little to be able to control her emotions yet.

I think it's going well overall!
allgirls, you're posts are awesome! I'm so grateful to be able to glean bits of wisdom from the experience of peers, here! Did you dialogue about how the day went with the girls?

A few things your post made me think about:
  1. Spiritual Companioning is a big aspect of the Virtues Project. This entails active inquiry, reflective listening, and consultation. Acknowledgement is something we have discussed in terms of seeing Virtues applied, but after testing times, we can acknowledge the way we all handled ourselves, looking at what worked, and what didn't, for all concerned. Example: with your 5yo, especially, you might acknowledge her, again, for all the support she gave her little sister; let her know you'd like to ask her opinion on how things went at Mother Goose, and share with her that you respect her point of view, and want to look at how things went and what she thinks you all could have done differently, what Virtues she saw, and what else could be used, etc.
  2. With your younger dd, you might acknowledge the "turn-arounds" she had both at the place, as well as at home, and thank her for trying to be flexible, even when it was hard.

A pearl of wisdom I heard somewhere along the way... "Repsect comes with understanding; half of understanding, is being understanding."

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So glad that it went well at Mother Goose time!

I have been having great days but today has been downright horrible I don't even know where to begin. I had to bodily carry my almost 4 yr old out of playgroup today. I have had to do that only one other time in her life and then it was to remove her from a situation that I was tired of-not her fault. Today-it was due to not listening-in hindsight it is so silly. We were only staying for an hour-she ate a Nutrigrain bar and then came back and asked for another one as she already had it in her hand and was trying to open it.

I said no thank you-you have already had one (there weren't enough there for everyone to have 2-just one)

and then she said no i want it and continued trying to open it.

I said I see that you are hungry-we are leaving in a few minutes anyway-if you are hungry we will have lunch as soon as we get home (we live not even 5 min away)

she replied with "no-i want it"

I said again "no thank you, please hand me the bar back"

no (w. an attitude)

At which point I tell her I am going to take the bar if she doesn't hand it to me-she again refuses with an attitude and I pry it out of her little hands.

She then throws herself bodily on the ground and cries and screams and continues to have a tantrum. I tell her that we are leaving and to please go up the stairs-she refuses-I then pick her up, carry her up the stairs and put her in the car. I realize this is not the thing I should have been doing-it was one of those days. It started out bad-she was fine at breakfast and then I had to make a phone call and of course, all heck broke loose while on the phone which is what she typically does. I was tired of it and told her that she was not using her respect and patience and that she needed to be respectful if we were going to be around other people at playgroup. I told her we would be leaving if she was not respectful. When she started in with the attitude we left. I admit that I am sick and tired of her attitude. It has gotten a lot better, but today has been horrible. We then reconnected over lunch and had popcorn as a treat afterwards. However, she then started in with the attitude and not listening again -not washing her hands after going to the bathroom and walking away from me as I am asking her to go wash her hands-not going to budge on hygiene. Sorry this is so long. I am just so tired today. Thanks for listening. The virtues have been working great-just not today and I admit I think I have been too tired today to appropriately try to use them. She did say as we were pulling into our driveway after playgroup "I do not want to have a conversation when we go inside"-knowing I would talk to her about her behaviour at playgroup. Ugh. Why is 3 so difficult???
Hi pumpkinseed! Sounds like a testing day. Someone told me that when we are apporaching understanding of a new skill-set, or enlightenment, or points of evolution, we are most likely to be tested. And that's a way for us to guage where we're at and what we will try to incorporate in order to continue to progress.

At 3, they're so right on the threshold of independance... able to do so much now, but still in need of so much help and assistance.

You are (were) feeling frustrated with her attitude, lately. I read. Boy, me too! Dd tests me BIG time. I use a lot of "I respect you and love you too much to fight with you. I'm done talking about this." In response to what your dd said, I might have said something like: I thank you for saying that to me calmly and with respect. If you don't want to talk now, I understand. I respect that you don't want to talk right now. Please let me know when you're ready, as I do expect we'll need to reflect on what happened today; I'm interested in your point of view...."

The TURN-AROUND

This is a moment I have noticed lately with dd, (I believe as a result of treating her fairly, with respect and understadning, and dialoguing about it). SHe will be having a rough patch, I will remind her that I am using my respect for her to help me treat her kindly and listen to her words, etc. She will stomp away or something and shortly return with a helpful hand, or big smile and aplogy, etc... I acknowledge these moments by saying "Dd, that was a nice turn-around! Thank you for your understanding/patience/flexability," Or, "That's called a turn-around, and I noticed how you had a moment to get calm and use your thoughtfulness to reflect... Thank you!"

When our dc's disposition turns icky, look for the turn-around. It'll happen eventually and the more we acknowledge it, the more it happens.
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The TURN-AROUND

This is a moment I have noticed lately with dd, (I believe as a result of treating her fairly, with respect and understadning, and dialoguing about it). SHe will be having a rough patch, I will remind her that I am using my respect for her to help me treat her kindly and listen to her words, etc. She will stomp away or something and shortly return with a helpful hand, or big smile and aplogy, etc... I acknowledge these moments by saying "Dd, that was a nice turn-around! Thank you for your understanding/patience/flexability," Or, "That's called a turn-around, and I noticed how you had a moment to get calm and use your thoughtfulness to reflect... Thank you!"

When our dc's disposition turns icky, look for the turn-around. It'll happen eventually and the more we acknowledge it, the more it happens.
I LOVE this! It goes right along with a Mulligan..lol but instead of me giving them the chance to do it over they do it over independantly and I pay attention to it. I will be doing this. I see a lot of this with my youngest.

Three year olds are soooooooo challenging. I think it's the most challenging age. My little one is three in October and she goes between "I'm the baby" to "I'm a big girl" to screaming if I say she's the baby when she's in a "big girl" moment...*sigh*

Where do manner fit? My 5 year old asked me for something and expressed gratitude so sincerely today when I gave it to her I was beaming with pride. It wasn't an automatic..it was genuine and heartfelt "thank you mommy" and I just kissed her in acknowledgement..then after I was like..could have identified it as a virtue. So that would be gratitude?
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#78 of 186 Old 09-21-2008, 12:18 AM
 
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The TURN-AROUND

This is a moment I have noticed lately with dd, (I believe as a result of treating her fairly, with respect and understadning, and dialoguing about it). SHe will be having a rough patch, I will remind her that I am using my respect for her to help me treat her kindly and listen to her words, etc. She will stomp away or something and shortly return with a helpful hand, or big smile and aplogy, etc... I acknowledge these moments by saying "Dd, that was a nice turn-around! Thank you for your understanding/patience/flexability," Or, "That's called a turn-around, and I noticed how you had a moment to get calm and use your thoughtfulness to reflect... Thank you!"

When our dc's disposition turns icky, look for the turn-around. It'll happen eventually and the more we acknowledge it, the more it happens.
Wow, this is what exactly I experienced today. My DS was disrespectful about asking me for his juice today. He said: MOMMY, give me my JUICE!!(command voice)
I told him: Would you please come back to me when you are respectful?
He turned away with pout. A few minutes later, he came back to the kitchen. He said: "Mommy, would you please give me my juice?" ( he was sorry for his action) I was sooooooo happy!!: I said now that was respect. Thank you!!!

Other day, I was trying to clean up the house. I told DS: would you please help me to pick up the toys? He ignored me! I asked second time! I thought to myself what I am thinking!! Why am I not using a virtue? I said to DS: I need cooperation please. So, he gets up and picks up some toy not all but that did it for me. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyy!

We still have to work on gentleness with his baby sister . It's a constant reminder.
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#79 of 186 Old 09-21-2008, 02:47 PM
 
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Did you dialogue about how the day went with the girls?

Oh yes.

Another example. Today she was getting water from the fridge, we have a dispenser in the door and it dripped down and made a mess. I asked her to go get something to clean up the mess. She screamed. For a moment I was about to lecture her about cleaning up after herself then I thought about it for a moment and decided to change my tactics.

So I said "I was really hoping you would find some helpfulness in you to clean up that mess" and she calmed down(screams are usually the beginning of a meltdown) and said "I have a lot of helpfulness" and ran to the bathroom and got a cleaning rag under the sink, cleaned up the water and then put the rag back and now is eating lunch with her sister happily.

Little sister also found some helpfulness inside her and put the forks on the table for lunch for both of them.

So that's my little story of the day. I'm going to go talk to them a bit now.

So that was a turnaround right?
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#80 of 186 Old 09-21-2008, 08:26 PM
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...

So we get to Mother goose and it goes very well. Little one calms down and participates. Then it's time to leave. She won't leave, she's on the floor in a bundle, "I don't want to go home" and "I don't want those shoes" and so on. So we finally get her cooperating which means I carry her and big sis carries my stuff and then we get in the car and she screams all the way home "I want Mother Goose, don't want to go home"

So I held it together and 5 year old held it together We were very "virtuous"

Once we got home little one was fine, ate a HUGE lunch which is probably what the problem was, hunger although she ate a substantial breakfast before we left. But she is having a hunge growth spurt lately, gained 4lbs over the summer and still growing.

I would probably have said "You sound frusterated..." . Sometimes that's all it takes to open up the conversation about what's going on for them. But, ya, when people are hungry, sometimes reasoning with them doesn't work so well, you have to get some food into them first.

I have to say, I love the turn-around idea. will have to remember to use that.

Lately we've been working on the idea of our family as a team. DD helps out because "we're a team" and teams work together. It's worked really well.

Another thing I was thinking about with the virtues is that I have started being careful about how often I acknowledge them. I know this sounds odd, but I think if you praise kids for every little thing they do then they only do it so that they can get praise from you. I think moderation is key here. You want to cultivate self-understanding and pride in themselves, not feed their need for attention from you.

The thing I love about the virtues is that you are acknowledging actions, not the person. You are not saying "Jonny is a patient person", but rather "Jonny was really practicing patience when...". To me this is a HUGE difference. I can change my behavior, but it's a little harder to change WHO I am.

Anyway, those are some random thoughts. I've been working with the virtues for many years now, since I was a camp counsellor in the early 90's. It's a bit of a challenge to translate that now that I am a parent... I find I slip into the way my parents parented so so often.

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Canadian mama to A (C/S May 2004) and R (induced VBAC Dec 2007) expecting #3 in July.  Currently obsessing over permaculture, photography and beekeeping.

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#81 of 186 Old 09-21-2008, 11:44 PM
 
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This sounds great, but did I miss it, did some one post books for this?

blessings

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss
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#82 of 186 Old 09-22-2008, 08:59 AM
 
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This sounds great, but did I miss it, did some one post books for this?

blessings
That's a great question. Are there any books Prennamama?

If you read the first few posts of this thread it gives a good idea of what this is all about Daniellebluetoo.

Welcome!!!

G&A~We do the "team" thing too. We do a lot of talking about how our family works and that we all have to do our share to make our family successful etc. It's really helpful and the kids take ownership of that pretty quickly and do their part.
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#83 of 186 Old 09-23-2008, 01:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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<snip>
Where do manner fit? My 5 year old asked me for something and expressed gratitude so sincerely today when I gave it to her I was beaming with pride. It wasn't an automatic..it was genuine and heartfelt "thank you mommy" and I just kissed her in acknowledgement..then after I was like..could have identified it as a virtue. So that would be gratitude?
Yes, gratitude, to be sure, which is part of respect, too; also kindness, thoughtfulness, courtesy, and others. It blows my mind when dd shows these pearls so brilliantly, like the "Thank you for the healthy dinner, Mama," story I posted some time back. I try to just be real, and not hold back... I let her know how good it feels to hear that kind of thing, I openly show my pleasure at hearing such kindness, and tell her warmly "You're welcome my love! It was my pleasure! Thank you for showing gratitude! That sure feels good!"

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<snip>
I said to DS: I need cooperation please. So, he gets up and picks up some toy not all but that did it for me. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyy!
: It's so rewarding and encouraging to see the nearly-instant progress they make when given such sublime tools as those that already live inside them...

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<snip>
So I said "I was really hoping you would find some helpfulness in you to clean up that mess" and she calmed down(screams are usually the beginning of a meltdown) and said "I have a lot of helpfulness" and ran to the bathroom and got a cleaning rag under the sink, cleaned up the water and then put the rag back and now is eating lunch with her sister happily.

Little sister also found some helpfulness inside her and put the forks on the table for lunch for both of them.

So that's my little story of the day. I'm going to go talk to them a bit now.

So that was a turnaround right?
Indeed! I love how you were honest about what you were feeling, and in a respectful way that allowed your dd to find it in herself to be helpful! I'm totally going to ask dd to "find the virtues in her."

That made me think of a game I never got a chance to play at camp. I have played it with children I nannied, years ago, before I knew about the VP, and just working with lo's on manners...

I would say "How much ________ (fill in the virtue/manner) do you need at/in/to ________ (fill in place/activity/function)?" And then I would have them pour colored water into containers, to show how much they needed. The colored water was their manners (or for our purposes, virtues, and since they never run out, when the children's pitcher started to look empty, I'd just add some more...). Sometimes it was a 'trick question' like "How much thankfulness do you need when you sleep?" And they would laugh and we'd talk about when we do need thankfulness.

I wonder if it might be fun to try with dd... "How much helpfulness is inside you?....... How much do you use at school/home/with friends/ etc...?" Cool... I'm trying it.

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<snip>
Lately we've been working on the idea of our family as a team. DD helps out because "we're a team" and teams work together. It's worked really well.

Another thing I was thinking about with the virtues is that I have started being careful about how often I acknowledge them. I know this sounds odd, but I think if you praise kids for every little thing they do then they only do it so that they can get praise from you. I think moderation is key here. You want to cultivate self-understanding and pride in themselves, not feed their need for attention from you.
There is definitely a line between acknowledging and praising that can be difficult to distinguish. Thank you for the reminder. It is important to be genuine with acknowledgement, just as one would be with a peer. "Hey, I see you got your hair cut!" says I noticed, but doesn't evaluate. "Hey, I noticed how patient you were." also isn't an evaluation, but rather testimony.

I like the team bit, too!

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<snip>
I've been working with the virtues for many years now, since I was a camp counsellor in the early 90's. It's a bit of a challenge to translate that now that I am a parent... I find I slip into the way my parents parented so so often.
g.
Virtues Camp??

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This sounds great, but did I miss it, did some one post books for this?

blessings
There are links on the first page to the Virtues Project website, as well as to their 'store' and many titles can be purchased through Amazon, I believe. PM me if you're having trouble finding the links.




So, speaking of moderation and game-playing.......

Who feels ready to throw another virtue into Intensive-land here on the thread? I was wondering if anyone might consider working Moderation with me?

We did it at camp, and the above game I mentioned would play nicely into Moderation exploration.

Dd and I got into a little foulness tonight, and it got me thinking about moderation....

We were getting a card for dh (anniversary tomorrow) at the craft store and she was doing the "I want..." bit with everything she saw. She even started whining that she wanted candy (which I am not so down with, but dh will share sometimes) and they don't even carry candy at the craft store. Then she chimes in with the "I never get..." insert candy, toys, what-have-you. So we get into the car and she is all in a huff, and I ask her "What's the problem, honey, why are you frustrated?" She proceeds to file out a litany of "I need more stuff, like K (her best guy friend, 5, very mainstream family, lotsa plastic toys and brightly colored foods... ) and I never get anything!" I calmy replied that it seems to me that she has a lot of wonderful things and even has some pretty brightly colored food-stuffs sometimes (we are by no means perfect in our aim at organic crunchiness, and our house has seen much Gatorade, Root Beer, gummies, etc...). I asked her why she felt like she needs more. She said "Everybody has more neat stuff than me... EVERYBODY!!" I was really taken aback by this. I nearly came unhinged.... I started to say something about, "well, maybe if you had less stuff, you'd be grateful for what you do have" which is something my mother would have said right before giving me a smack for being so cheeky!... THAT wasn't going to work! So I asked if she remembered how during the holiday season she chooses some toys to give to the kids whose folks can't get them toys. She sulked. I asked if she remembered Virtues Camp, when we had moderation tickets for lunch: "Take what you need, no more, no less..." And I asked if she remembered what moderation is. She didn't. I said "I am sorry you feel underprivaledged. You are blessed to have what you have, my love... and I'm blessed to have you!" I got in, privately seething (curse the lineage of abusive parenting going back 4 generations... but I'm a far-cry from where great-grannie was!) and we didn't speak for 15 minutes til we got to the restaurant to meet with my mom. I said "Are you still mad?" She nodded. "Ok, I see that. I'm not, (I had cooled off) and we can wait til you're ready to go in..." A few minutes later she said "I'm done being mad, now, Mama. But I still wish I had more stuff...."

I am beside myself with the commercialism and consumerism that sneaks by me, amping dd up about getting "more, more, more." This kid has SO much stuff... we're bursting at the seams! I'm about to purge, but don't want her to feel like it's a punishment, or like she's being compelled or coerced into "going without" kwim? I'm ready to work intensively on moderation with her... and for myself too. I lost 40lbs in 12 months, and recently gained about 15 of it back through no exercise and lots of indulging...

Who's in?
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#84 of 186 Old 09-23-2008, 07:13 PM
 
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So, speaking of moderation and game-playing.......
I'm ready to work intensively on moderation with her... and for myself too. I lost 40lbs in 12 months, and recently gained about 15 of it back through no exercise and lots of indulging...

Who's in?
Definitely. And timely. We have birthdays and Christmas coming up...perfect!
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#85 of 186 Old 09-24-2008, 01:28 AM
 
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That is a great idea. Moderation is one of my favorite virtues. Also, could we fit in "self-control"? I know it is a hard one for young children, but it is better they learn it now than when they are older.
I hardly buy any toys for DS when we go out shopping together. For instant, when we go to ToysRUS, he just looks at the toys and play with the displayed ones, then we leave the store. He knows this rule! Sometimes, I get him educational toys without his presence at the store.

The other day, I took him to the non toy store; at the end, he grabbed a ghost key chain (Halloween stuff). He kept saying "Mommy, I want this...I want this..." with a very respectful voice!!! I said "would you please put that down?" He kept insisting! I said "I don't think you need this key chair, you just WANT it. Is that right? He said "yap! but I like it!"
I told him "we don't buy the stuff that we don't need" and "can we practice our self-control? The cashier asked for the key chain, so he handed it to her. That was it! we had no conversation about that thing again.
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#86 of 186 Old 09-26-2008, 12:03 AM
 
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We haven't done much with moderation other than talk about it but today we had a playgroup followed by a bbq and I was a bit worried it could get to be too much but my youngest was awesome! It was just the two of us.We talked before about sharing. Then after we got to the bbq I noticed only 2 swings.

There were a lot of kids the same age and limited number of swings and I said remember how we have kindness and sharing down inside us and today is a good day to use them because we have a lot of friends and only 2 swings so can you use your kindness and sharing to take turns and try to share a lot.

She was amazing. She offered other kids turns and was just so grown up and mature. I was so proud. Then I acknowledged that I'd noticed and told her she should be very proud of herself.

She was. And I was very proud of her as well.

At one point one of the other mothers remarked at how "good" she was and they were totally amazed when she got off the swing and gave another kid a turn without being prompted. Honestly, I was amazed too!

There were some babies there too and she was very good about giving them space and not over-hugging them and just played peek a boo. She loves babies

She was noticeably respectful, gentle and sweet, above and beyond what I've ever noticed before.

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#87 of 186 Old 09-30-2008, 09:25 AM
 
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We have mother goose again today...wish me luck!
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#88 of 186 Old 09-30-2008, 11:02 AM
 
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We have mother goose again today...wish me luck!
Best Wishes!

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#89 of 186 Old 10-02-2008, 12:45 AM
 
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Well we didn't end up going to MG because one of my best friends came by with her grandaughter...it was wonderful...She's close in age to my little one and I had a little talk to her about sharing and taking turns and how we are with our guests..and all the good things inside us we should use when we have friends over like our manners etc. and she was so attentive and then they played with very few incidents. They LOVED each other and it was great. My older daughter enjoyed it too..she was fantastic too..helping the little ones negotiate with toys. I cannot believe that a child who is not yet three could be so interested and actually try to carry out the virtues..it's amazing

We haven't done anything with moderation and I missed an opportunity tonight because the kids were eating icecream and cookies(a BIG treat) and wanted more. I said no and they were fine but I could have taught moderation.

I'm sure I'll get other chances.

Are there story books for kids about the virtues?
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#90 of 186 Old 10-02-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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I'm so excited. I just found out that a counselling group in the city I used to live in regularly offers the virtues workshops..the introduction and facilitator training. I may do this if it works out!

They are offering the introductory one next week..and the facilitator one in November too soon for me but I'm emailing them to see if another is coming up in the new year...

I would love to be more involved so I'm definitely looking into this:
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