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Gentle Discipline > Virtues Parenting
PrennaMama's Avatar PrennaMama 05:52 AM 11-10-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
About the virtues being intrinsic.

With my three year old I will say something like "you have to find patience deep down inside you, it's there, can you find some?"

The other day she was very impatiently waiting her turn for something and I said something similar to the above and she was resistant at first and then suddenly she said
"I found some!"

and I said "what did you find"

"I found some patience. It was in my tummy"

kids are so funny!
Oh my. That is just about the sweetest thing I have heard in like, weeks.

I love allgirls' stories... I get so much inspiration from them.

It's difficult to remember to keep the virtues alive, to talk about it at least once a day... and to stay vigilant with our dc's in reminding them that these are parts of their character that are already there. I love the way allgirls references finding the appropriate/recommended/needed virtue inside. You go girl!

sunnysandiegan's Avatar sunnysandiegan 04:05 AM 11-11-2008
I picked up the first book to arrive from my "hold" list at our library. It is The Book of Virtues edited, with commentary, by William J. Bennett. Man is this a BIG BOOK?!?!!!! LOL
PrennaMama's Avatar PrennaMama 06:20 AM 11-11-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysandiegan View Post
I picked up the first book to arrive from my "hold" list at our library. It is The Book of Virtues edited, with commentary, by William J. Bennett. Man is this a BIG BOOK?!?!!!! LOL
Enjoy!!
WhaleinGaloshes's Avatar WhaleinGaloshes 03:50 PM 11-11-2008
Prenna, I can't believe that the program you presented in your fist post is the same or related to Bill Bennett and his book. Say it ain't so!

I've searched the website from your first post, and it seems to be totally unrelated. I think it's just a name confusion issue.

SunnySD, maybe something to consider before you tackle the book?
PrennaMama's Avatar PrennaMama 08:30 PM 11-11-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffian View Post
Prenna, I can't believe that the program you presented in your fist post is the same or related to Bill Bennett and his book. Say it ain't so!

I've searched the website from your first post, and it seems to be totally unrelated. I think it's just a name confusion issue.

SunnySD, maybe something to consider before you tackle the book?
Yikes... ruffian, I am so grateful that you mentioned this. I have never actually read the WIlliam J. Bennet book. I did some research and whoa. It is about virtues, to be sure, but the language and approach is definitely not in the same line of thinking that the Virtues Project is all about. You're right. The two are not the same. I initiated this thread as a means to bring the Virtues Project to the MDC community, since ime, it's a great philosophy to add to many of the methods and philosphies embraced here. That said, I don't know that I can endorse a book that doesn't come from that pov.

Don't get me wrong, ladies, there are a ton of great resources and materials out there that companion well with the VP, but may not actually be part of it. We find and take what we like, and leave the rest.

sunnysandiegan, maybe as you examine the book, keep in mind it is a source of information of the philosphy of virtue and has some gems in it... but it isn't per se, part of the VP.

If you're interested in reading material that is from the VP, I highly recommend The Family Virtues Guide and you can take a look at it by clicking on theis link: The Family Virtues Guide.

Thanks again, ruffian!
WhaleinGaloshes's Avatar WhaleinGaloshes 08:48 PM 11-11-2008
Yeah, Bill Bennett is a radical neocon political analyst, anti-affirmative action, anti-gay rights, pro-war former drug czar. Not that there's anything wrong with that . Here's a decent seemingly independent bio of him: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1034.html

To be fair, I have not read his book and it entirely possible that Bill Bennett's take on virtue could be thought provoking. Or not.

But that's just one person's opinion.
PrennaMama's Avatar PrennaMama 09:52 AM 11-12-2008
Just the brief snippets I reviewed didn't have the same tenor as the VP... I sincerely appreciate your calling my attention to that.

He mentions some things from Descartes and such, and does delve into philosophy (classical philosophy) but his writing, his language, and the overall sense I got from what I reviewed seemed really harsh.
sunnysandiegan's Avatar sunnysandiegan 03:04 PM 11-12-2008
Well, I am glad I mentioned it specifically! I did get the title from somewhere around here (MDC in general, but I thought specifically in GD). In any case, I read the cover blurbs and all the "intro" type stuff. There are about a dozen virtues presented in the book from a literary perspective and I have not delved into any of those, yet. It appears that each section/virtue has a page or two from Bennett and the rest of the section is short literary works. (They work from super short and easy for the youngest children to longer and more complex for older children.) I haven't seen anything to warrant a red flag, yet, but I really haven't gotten into the meat of the book. It is not meant to be read cover to cover, so I have no plans of doing so. There is simply no way to read this entire book before it is due back at the library! LOL

This book just happens to be the first one to come into my local library branch from my queue. I figure it is another resource for learning about virtues in general. We'll see if I like the tone of the author/editor after I read a few beginning sections...
allgirls's Avatar allgirls 12:41 AM 11-14-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post


As for the workshop, I'm working with my mentor next week to help decide how such a workshop will be best structured. My first instinct is to try to do it for free. Possibly via a yahoo group or facebook group. What kinds of information and tools would YOU like to have available? How effective, useful is the correspondance-nature of those groups, to you? (like the CL group) Would you like posted imagery, vid clips, songs, games..........?

Let me know what you think!

You are awesome! I"m voting for Facebook because I am on there a lot but I will be on board with whatever you decide I like Yahoo groups too.


Another anecdote...along the same vein as my story about my 3 year old and the patience in her tummy. We went to Playgroup this morning. I had $1.50 enough to get a coffee. I rarely go to Tim Hortons but if I do it's usually to get Timbits for the kids. So I explained that I wanted to get coffee but I didn't have enough for timbits too and that I wouldn't be getting any and if they could to try to find some understanding that I really wanted a coffee

I had brought juice and snacks for the kids but my travel mug has vanished and I really would like to have a coffee. I was fully prepared to buy the timbits if my 3 year old kicked up a stink because she's little and we always get the timbits for her.

They were fine and when we left the drive thru I told them how grateful I was for their understanding and that they had been able to find some for me and how I am older and always understand that they need stuff so sometimes I have to do without but I was very happy that sometimes they could find understanding as well.

My five year old said "I keep my understanding in my brain". and I said "that's a great place to keep it" with a big smile on my face.

It's hard to remember every day and sometimes it's hard to figure out which virtue applies. I don't even remember if understanding is on the list but figured it sounded virtious.

My inlaws were visiting for two weeks so I have been off a lot. I've been reading along though.

This is a great read!
PrennaMama's Avatar PrennaMama 04:10 AM 11-14-2008
This just in...

Monumental leaps in development ON a little one's birthday are possible!

Prenna literally went form 3 to 4 in about a 30 second span.

She was given a very extravagant dress. My mom's nuts in the spoiling deptartment, I mean it... this thing is fancier than my wedding dress was.

After she wore it for a bit, we were about to have cake, and she said... "I think I'll take off my dress before some cake, I don't wanna get it messy."

I was so happy at her self-directed responsibility, I shouted out, "Awesome idea, good thinking! That's what I call responsibility!" Without skipping a beat, she curtsied and said "AND a Virtue."

The whole room applauded... we were all so blown away!
allgirls's Avatar allgirls 12:01 PM 11-14-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post

I was so happy at her self-directed responsibility, I shouted out, "Awesome idea, good thinking! That's what I call responsibility!" Without skipping a beat, she curtsied and said "AND a Virtue."

The whole room applauded... we were all so blown away!
I love this! What a great story

My 5 year old can read. I think I need some cards with the virtues on them for her to learn herself. I think she'd love that. She loves and feels so proud of herself when she masters a BIG word.

And I will be ordering some of the books for christmas.

I find three to be a challenging age..the most challenging in all of my children until the teen years.

My oldest daughter is 18 and out of the house now but my 14 year old is watching me with the little ones and has been somewhat curious. She is a good kid. I felt it would have been a bit wierd to start teaching her the virtues out of the blue one day but she's been questioning and learning and I hope at 14 some of it goes in.

So she's been hankering to get her tongue pierced. She actually had the money and went into the store to get it done on her lunch break yesterday. Then she decided to not do it.

She came home and told me that she'd sat in the chair and then figured maybe she shouldn't because I'd be mad and so she resisted. Seh told the guy she'd changed her mind and that she wanted to wait until her mom agreed. The piercing guy said "good for you".

Now I'm not against piercings but the tongue one really heebie geebies me out. She has her nose and belly button and ears done.

I think she should wait until she's sixteen and offered to take her then but waiting 2 years seems endless to a kid.
LauraN's Avatar LauraN 02:44 PM 11-14-2008
PrennaMama:

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this thread! I've actually only read the first few posts, but already Virtues Parenting has helped me make that elusive paradigm shift that everyone talks about in Gentle Parenting.

Mind you, I've been reading and studying Gentle Parenting for *years,* but something about my upbringing just didn't allow me to make that shift.

But reading your posts and the Virtues Project web site did it both for me and for DH.

For DH it was because he dismisses a lot of the other parenting books as psychological mumbo jumbo -- which really means that he doesn't get it. But this, since it was written from a Baha'i perspective, really resonated with him. He's Druze (a small religion in Lebanon, Syria and Israel) that has *a lot* in common with the Baha'i ideas.

For me, strong personal virtues is just an idea that resonates with me because of my upbringing.

So DH and I made up our separate lists of the most important virtues to us personally, and to the running of our household.

Then I merged them and started talking to the kids about them.

I explained that these were tools that we all have inside of ourselves but that we need to practice them so they become easier to use, much like learning to ride a bike (something they've both done recently). I asked them what happens when we fall off our bike. Does anyone yell at them, punish them or suggest there's something wrong with them? Of course not! Instead, we first find out what's wrong (is someone hurt? tired? hungry?), help with that, then get back on the bike and keep practicing!

This was as much an explanation for me and DH as for the kids. It helped me so much to think of these virtues as already existing within them and simply needing to be practiced!

Anyway, we went through our list of most urgently needed virtues and what they each mean and resolved to practice them (and as you suggest, I need to remember to talk about them every day.

Anyway, I was so inspired by this, and I just wanted to thank you!
allgirls's Avatar allgirls 02:48 PM 11-15-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraN View Post
PrennaMama:

I explained that these were tools that we all have inside of ourselves but that we need to practice them so they become easier to use, much like learning to ride a bike (something they've both done recently). I asked them what happens when we fall off our bike. Does anyone yell at them, punish them or suggest there's something wrong with them? Of course not! Instead, we first find out what's wrong (is someone hurt? tired? hungry?), help with that, then get back on the bike and keep practicing!

This was as much an explanation for me and DH as for the kids. It helped me so much to think of these virtues as already existing within them and simply needing to be practiced!

Anyway, we went through our list of most urgently needed virtues and what they each mean and resolved to practice them (and as you suggest, I need to remember to talk about them every day.

Anyway, I was so inspired by this, and I just wanted to thank you!
this is wonderful. I love the way you described it to your children!

I have to remember the practice aspect of it. I mean they aren't perfect. They have their moments but they are so fascinated by this.

I also notice they try to out virtue each other. One will say "thank you" and I'll notice that and the other will jump in with her "thank you as well"

I'm trying not to praise them so much as taking notice and being appreciate it.

What fascinates me it how fascinated they were with it right from the beginning. Simply being informed that they have the capacity for all of these good things seems to change the way they see themselves and also seems to inspire them to try to find the virtues they need.

It's also making me aware that I have to watch myself. I have habits that I'm unaware of and I am starting to notice that. They haven't started pointing them out but it's a matter of time.

I've decided I will be doing some actual workshops if they are offered in this area. I just discovered too late as the introduction and the facilitator workshops were offered this month nearby. If it comes again I'll be ready!
sunnysandiegan's Avatar sunnysandiegan 08:33 PM 11-15-2008
Hi again!

I received a bunch more books from my queue at the public library:

Character Matters by Thomas Lickona
A Pace of Grace by Linda Kavelin Popov
Liberated Parents Liberated Children Your Guide to a Happier Family by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish (I own their How to Talk... book and love it.)
Gentle Discipline by Dawn Lighter, M.A.
The Book of Virtues for Young People (in addition to the above-mentioned The Book of Virtues I picked up last week) by William J. Bennett

While sitting in the library waiting for DH & DD to choose their books, I read each introduction. Each book is slightly different even though they are all about virtues. A Pace of Grace is the most different in that it isn't about parenting per se. It is more encompassing.

William Bennett's books are much thicker than the others! His style is different in that he lets existing literary works do the teaching more than his own writing. The one niggling idea he presents that doesn't really feel right to me is he says, "You need very clear understandings of virtues if you are to get them." Hmmm... "get" them? I prefer the theory that states we already have them and we simply need to practice using them. However, perhaps I am misreading what he means and he is using "get them" in a different context. I plan to read the beginning of each chapter (1-2 pages of his thoughts on the 10-12 virtues he presents) before deciding if I will delve further into his books. If nothing else, it gives me a different perspective from which to examine my beliefs and to compare the other approaches in the other books I have right now...

So now I have to put the laptop away and get busy reading, reading, reading...LOL I've got three weeks to read six books.
loveandmore's Avatar loveandmore 12:31 PM 11-16-2008
I am interested in starting with respect.
loveandmore's Avatar loveandmore 12:45 PM 11-16-2008
Here's a great story from the other day you all might like.
LucyRev's Avatar LucyRev 04:28 PM 11-16-2008
Can you renew them and have another 3 weeks? I do that all the time at our library. I need to get myself some books too.
sunnysandiegan's Avatar sunnysandiegan 05:41 PM 11-16-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucyRev View Post
Can you renew them and have another 3 weeks? I do that all the time at our library. I need to get myself some books too.
I can for the books not in someone else's queue. Several of these are in high demand! I am #3, #4, and #7 for some of the books on this general topic. (I haven't received any of those yet.) Some of these I may end up purchasing for reference in our own personal "library". I prefer to read them once first, though.
holyhelianthus's Avatar holyhelianthus 02:58 PM 11-19-2008
Ohhhh I have been dieing to pick up A Pace of Grace!! Do let us know how it is!
loveandmore's Avatar loveandmore 04:49 PM 11-20-2008
Thank you PrennaMama for your feedback.
allgirls's Avatar allgirls 01:40 AM 11-21-2008
I am having so much success with this. Today at the grocery store my kids were the most helpful, respectful, patient and wonderful children you could have asked for.

People were commenting positively in almost every aisle.

One pushed the cart, one held the list. We counted apples, I lifted little one up to reach the high stuff. We stuck to the list. If it's not on the list we don't get it and sometimes they would ask if something(cookies for example) was on the list and I said "no" and they expressed disappointment and I said "but chocolate chips is on the list so we can make our own" and they were :

Honestly...this is like a big gd secret.

I was so thrilled with the kids I took them for McDonald's for lunch. And know what? When you don't take your kids to McDonald's very often they really super appreciate it when you do! They think those little toy Penquins are amazing! They expressed so much gratitude for that and we haven't even talked about gratitude and thankfulness all that much. That just came out.

They still torture the dog a bit too much..we are working on that but they love him so darn much

Anyway...I felt so good as a mom getting so many positive remarks in the store...it's never happened to that degree before. I can take a bit of credit can't I?
Callimom's Avatar Callimom 05:09 AM 11-26-2008
subbing
sunnysandiegan's Avatar sunnysandiegan 10:33 PM 11-26-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Ohhhh I have been dieing to pick up A Pace of Grace!! Do let us know how it is!
I just thought I would update y'all that I finished reading the first chapter and have decided I am going to buy this book and take my time with it. It is set up to take a chapter/section at a time and I see the benefits of doing so. I really, really like Linda's approach...
PrennaMama's Avatar PrennaMama 04:28 AM 11-30-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraN View Post
PrennaMama:

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this thread! I've actually only read the first few posts, but already Virtues Parenting has helped me make that elusive paradigm shift that everyone talks about in Gentle Parenting.

Mind you, I've been reading and studying Gentle Parenting for *years,* but something about my upbringing just didn't allow me to make that shift.

But reading your posts and the Virtues Project web site did it both for me and for DH.
It was SO my pleasure to bring this thread up... I can really relate to your experience in finding what you needed to make that paradigm shift, because sincerely, the VP tied it all together for me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraN View Post
I explained that these were tools that we all have inside of ourselves but that we need to practice them so they become easier to use, much like learning to ride a bike (something they've both done recently). I asked them what happens when we fall off our bike. Does anyone yell at them, punish them or suggest there's something wrong with them? Of course not! Instead, we first find out what's wrong (is someone hurt? tired? hungry?), help with that, then get back on the bike and keep practicing!
Oooooh! I LOVE the way you linked the bike metaphor with the principles of gentle parenting, that it, parenting without shaming etc! I plan to use that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveandmore View Post
Thank you PrennaMama for your feedback.
All the gratitude is making me :... I can't believe VP hasn't been discussed more roundly, here! It's such a natural fit! Thank you ladies for reading, and giving it a shot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
<snip>

Honestly...this is like a big gd secret.

<snip>Anyway...I felt so good as a mom getting so many positive remarks in the store...it's never happened to that degree before. I can take a bit of credit can't I?
It does feel like a big secret! Get the message out, sistas! There is another approach!! :

And allgirls you uva well better take some credit... it's you, after all, who is helping them to unlock their virtues!
allgirls's Avatar allgirls 01:13 PM 12-04-2008
Sometimes I feel like I'm just winging it but hey, it works.

So yesterday my daughter was disappointed that she didn't win the colouring contest at her school but she was very excited that her friends won. I was very proud and pointed out that being "gracious" in defeat is a virtue. So we talked about that a lot and how it's important that even when we feel disappointment in ourselves we can make ourselves feel better by being happy for others and that will actually make us less disappointed and more happy than if we feel mad at them.

She's going to congratulate her friends when she goes to school on Monday she said.

She really listened and understood.
PrennaMama's Avatar PrennaMama 06:01 PM 12-04-2008
Prenna and I have been discussing choices, and the value of thinking about the choices available before deciding one's path...

She was interviewed by a friend of ours who is taking a master's class in child psychology and wanted to talk to her about moral development.

Prenna told her that breaking the rules (in a game they were playing) is wrong because someone could get mad, it's not fair... and then she let our friend break the rules to take several turns in a row, because she "wanted her to have more fun, and losing isn't fun."

This started a conversation on fairness and sportsmanship.

We're steadying on... winging it.

When school lets out for winter break, I'm starting a Facebook group. I hope you all will join in!:
holyhelianthus's Avatar holyhelianthus 12:52 PM 12-05-2008
Thanks so much for the update! I think I'll buy it as well...
sunnysandiegan's Avatar sunnysandiegan 11:04 PM 12-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Thanks so much for the update! I think I'll buy it as well...
I just ordered my copy from amazon along with Linda's Family Virtues Guide and a few other books for myself and gifts...all on free shipping, too...

I tried to buy it in person, but the bookstore where I was for a Mom's Night Out didn't carry any of the books on my list...
sunnysandiegan's Avatar sunnysandiegan 03:41 AM 01-11-2009
I wanted to bring this thread back up for discussion.

I have a cute story to share. As I mentioned above, I have checked out a lot of books from the library on parenting topics. The mention in this thread is far from an exhaustive list. LOL Our DD (age 7) has paid attention and has read bits and pieces of many of the books. She reads well and comprehends well, also. She has clear opinions on various books, also, and definitely disliked all of the William Bennett books. In her words, "he is mean". I ordered some of the books I liked from Amazon and they arrived right before Christmas. The Family Virtues Guide by Linda Kavelin Popov has been sitting on the stairs for a few days now. I had read a couple dozen pages and set it aside due to the holidays. She decided to read it yesterday. She loves it! She asked me to read it with her later in the day, so we took turns reading aloud before dinner. Then we asked Daddy to read up to the same point we got to and he did after dinner. She told us what she liked is that "it disciplines parents". LOL She also really liked the stories (examples). She was able to articulate the specific areas where she felt our family could use the work in the book. (We haven't finished reading the section before the specific virtues, but we are close.)

Meanwhile, I brought a few books to a playgroup meeting this morning at the beach and started a discussion on the virtues parenting concept (among others). Two of the three moms present are very interested in purchasing the book and discussing the topics regularly. I'm going to send an email to the whole playgroup next week to see if anyone else is interested as well.

PrennaMama, are you still interested in doing an online workshop? I'd love to participate!
Unity9's Avatar Unity9 03:13 AM 01-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysandiegan View Post
I wanted to bring this thread back up for discussion.

I have a cute story to share. As I mentioned above, I have checked out a lot of books from the library on parenting topics. The mention in this thread is far from an exhaustive list. LOL Our DD (age 7) has paid attention and has read bits and pieces of many of the books. She reads well and comprehends well, also. She has clear opinions on various books, also, and definitely disliked all of the William Bennett books. In her words, "he is mean". I ordered some of the books I liked from Amazon and they arrived right before Christmas. The Family Virtues Guide by Linda Kavelin Popov has been sitting on the stairs for a few days now. I had read a couple dozen pages and set it aside due to the holidays. She decided to read it yesterday. She loves it! She asked me to read it with her later in the day, so we took turns reading aloud before dinner. Then we asked Daddy to read up to the same point we got to and he did after dinner. She told us what she liked is that "it disciplines parents". LOL She also really liked the stories (examples). She was able to articulate the specific areas where she felt our family could use the work in the book. (We haven't finished reading the section before the specific virtues, but we are close.)

Meanwhile, I brought a few books to a playgroup meeting this morning at the beach and started a discussion on the virtues parenting concept (among others). Two of the three moms present are very interested in purchasing the book and discussing the topics regularly. I'm going to send an email to the whole playgroup next week to see if anyone else is interested as well.

PrennaMama, are you still interested in doing an online workshop? I'd love to participate!

It is funny that my almost 5 year old son likes to read the same virtue book at nights before bed. He calls it the Baha'i book!!! He likes the pictures and examples!!

It is wonderful that you introduced this book to your palygroup

Good luck
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