Alfie Kohn blasts "Supernanny" - Page 18 - Mothering Forums
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#511 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 01:26 PM
 
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Sorry, nak and too busy to read the whole thread, but wanted to pop in to say I have a friend who works in editing that show, and he says the whole thing is SOOOO fake! He helps splice together film clips to the point of actually fabricating new sentences out of old ones (listen for slight changes in the speakers tone of voice) to make it look like a happy ending every week, which is hugely inaccurate, according to my friend who sees alllllll the footage.
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#512 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 05:46 PM
 
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I realize everyone parents differently, I guess I just assumed it was according to what came naturally to them and what works with their family rather than by a certain style/method.
You might consider that this is what feels natural to other people. It feels blissfully natural to me. I was already doing it and it was wonderful to stumble across a book that reinforced what I already knew in my own heart with stunning arguments and research. Do you think people are following methods that feel unnatural to them?
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#513 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 05:53 PM
 
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Do you think people are following methods that feel unnatural to them?
you might be surprised. but, yes, some do.
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#514 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 07:21 PM
 
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you might be surprised. but, yes, some do.
I've met one mother who said she let her baby cry-it-out while her instincts screamed for her to pick her up.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#515 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 07:22 PM
 
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You might consider that this is what feels natural to other people. It feels blissfully natural to me. I was already doing it and it was wonderful to stumble across a book that reinforced what I already knew in my own heart with stunning arguments and research.
That's how I feel about my parenting-style, too!

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#516 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 07:48 PM
 
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I think that many parents don't do what feels natural, but rather what they are taught is the "right" thing to do. CIO is a great example of this.

I think what's interesting in this debate is that there is consensus that parenting styles can be placed on a scale - with coercive/punitive at one end and permissive on the other.

What is being debated is where do we draw the line on that scale as to what is acceptable behaviour and punishment and what isn't?

When Mammal Mother wrote about forcing her daughter to sit on her lap - that is a punishment. I think her point proves though that punishments (mostly called "consequences" by us gentle folk who hate to think we would punish a child) are not a negative thing in themself.
What is negative is the way that punishment is applied and why you are applying a punishment in the first place.

Obviously, Mammal-Mama is a loving, gentle parent who has her daughters best interests at heart. She teaches her child the limits in our culture and society - which are very valuable things to learn, not purely from a safety point of veiw, but because children need to learn the "rules" so that can be embraced by others as cooperative members of their society. And if that means you need to sit on mama's lap until you can interact without hurting others, then the punishment is not only fair but gentle.

Punishment in itself isn't the real issue. The real issue is with how or why we punish our children.

Mel - Loving mama and wife to the A team
From little things, big things grow
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#517 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 10:08 PM
 
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When Mammal Mother wrote about forcing her daughter to sit on her lap - that is a punishment.
I'd love to hear more opinions about this! I wonder if my daughter perceived it as a punishment? What I was hoping to communicate was that hurting other people is a problem. We don't like to be hurt, others don't like it either. And I wanted her to feel secure that I was paying attention and was available to help her work through whatever problem she was experiencing.

But I guess I was also wanting her to stop hurting my friend's kids, so that I could enjoy visiting with my friend, and so my friend would want to continue hanging out with us. Maybe that motive made it a punishment? Also, I'll admit that I didn't want my friend to think I wasn't taking her children's wellbeing seriously.

Ultimately, though, I feel like dd wasn't having all that much fun, or she wouldn't have been hurting the kids. I do feel she was crying out for some help from me. But, again, maybe I could have helped her through the difficult feelings without having to restrain her, just by staying closer to her.

I have occasionally felt a need to restrain dd or remove her from certain situations, because it was the only way I saw to keep her from hurting someone. I still don't see how it could be a punishment, if it was the only way to protect someone from being hurt. But I do want to work harder at not moving to restraint as a first resort.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#518 of 529 Old 09-23-2008, 11:22 PM
 
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I've met one mother who said she let her baby cry-it-out while her instincts screamed for her to pick her up.
that would be an example from one end of the spectrum, yes.
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#519 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 01:51 PM
 
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AP, CLW, co-sleeping, tandem nursing, these are all thing that like UP just felt most natural to me and THAT is why I do them
I'm pretty sure we are saying the same things in this regard.

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"I just assumed it was according to what came naturally to them and what works with their family rather than by a certain style/method."
If you read just before this in my post, I mentioned that I never knew there were different parenting method/labels. That is what I was referring to. You are quoting only part of a statement and reading a lot into it that is not there.

My previous reply was in response to your post saying you were confused when I used the word consensual because you didn’t think I seemed to be following the book/CL method. I was trying to clarify that I do what feels right for us and consensual is one of the words I would use to describe our household even though we do not follow CL or any other method.

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She seemed to be implying that us UP folks on this thread are just going for the named style of UP even though it must feel unnatural to us.
Wow, really not sure where I implied any of this.

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I know, I should just tune it out!
Feel free I do not and was not judging anyone's parenting. I’m just stating that our family does not fit into any particular style or method.
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#520 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 03:24 PM
 
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I do not and was not judging anyone's parenting. I’m just stating that our family does not fit into any particular style or method.
I'm sorry if you felt attacked! It's just that many of us who connect with styles like UP, AP, unschooling, and so on, often hear others saying things like, "You should just do what works for your family and not worry about the 'label'" -- as if anyone who's brainstorming about how to better apply the principles they've been learning is just trying to "fit in" to some particular style.

I see now that you're not saying that, you're just talking about your family.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#521 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 03:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
I'm sorry if you felt attacked! It's just that many of us who connect with styles like UP, AP, unschooling, and so on, often hear others saying things like, "You should just do what works for your family and not worry about the 'label'" -- as if anyone who's brainstorming about how to better apply the principles they've been learning is just trying to "fit in" to some particular style.

I see now that you're not saying that, you're just talking about your family.
I don't feel attacked, just missunderstood

I find it hard to get my thoughts down in text as they are in my head. It's frustrating that sometimes people take from my replies something that I did not intend, imply, believe in, agree with, etc.

I guess that is one of the hazards of this kind of communication. Thanks for understanding.
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#522 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 04:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenmama2AJ View Post
I think that many parents don't do what feels natural, but rather what they are taught is the "right" thing to do. CIO is a great example of this.

I think what's interesting in this debate is that there is consensus that parenting styles can be placed on a scale - with coercive/punitive at one end and permissive on the other.

What is being debated is where do we draw the line on that scale as to what is acceptable behaviour and punishment and what isn't?

When Mammal Mother wrote about forcing her daughter to sit on her lap - that is a punishment. I think her point proves though that punishments (mostly called "consequences" by us gentle folk who hate to think we would punish a child) are not a negative thing in themself.
What is negative is the way that punishment is applied and why you are applying a punishment in the first place.


Obviously, Mammal-Mama is a loving, gentle parent who has her daughters best interests at heart. She teaches her child the limits in our culture and society - which are very valuable things to learn, not purely from a safety point of veiw, but because children need to learn the "rules" so that can be embraced by others as cooperative members of their society. And if that means you need to sit on mama's lap until you can interact without hurting others, then the punishment is not only fair but gentle.

Punishment in itself isn't the real issue. The real issue is with how or why we punish our children.
You've said it so much better than I have been trying

I consider what mammal_mama did to be a time out (just not like SN would do it, or how I would do it), but that is just my perception of the situation.

Do I think there was a different way to handle the situation … sure … there are probably lots of ways she could have handled it. Mammal_mama did what she felt was best in that particular situation as it was unfolding. If she’s thought about it since and feels there is a better way to handle it if it occurs again then that’s great. This is how I see parenting … assessing each situation, responding to it, learning from it, then moving on to the next … that’s how we learn and grow as people/parents.
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#523 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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I consider what mammal_mama did to be a time out (just not like SN would do it, or how I would do it), but that is just my perception of the situation.
I guess I perceive time out as "depriving my child of my loving presence" -- and since I wasn't doing that, I didn't see it as a punishment but simply as coercion, which I prefer not to engage in ...

But you guys have sure got me thinking ... sounds like more of you agree with my dh than not.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#524 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 05:40 PM
 
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I guess I perceive time out as "depriving my child of my loving presence" -- and since I wasn't doing that, I didn't see it as a punishment but simply as coercion, which I prefer not to engage in ...

But you guys have sure got me thinking ... sounds like more of you agree with my dh than not.
I think everyone's perception of a time out is probably different. That is my issue with the blanket statement that punishment/rewards are wrong/damaging.


I am very present and loving during what I call time out with my son.
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#525 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 08:25 PM
 
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If you read just before this in my post, I mentioned that I never knew there were different parenting method/labels.
Wow, so you had never even heard of Attachment Parenting? I'm curious how you found this board.
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#526 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 08:38 PM
 
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Wow, so you had never even heard of Attachment Parenting? I'm curious how you found this board.
Nope, never heard of it until I joined MDC.

I found this board when i was searching the net for info on an issue with my DS. It brought up a thread from here concerning the same issue so I joined to post my question concerning DS.

After that I started reading all these great threads and got hooked
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#527 of 529 Old 09-24-2008, 08:45 PM
 
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Wow, so you had never even heard of Attachment Parenting? I'm curious how you found this board.
i never heard of the labels until I came on board either. now i have a better understanding of some of the labels
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#528 of 529 Old 09-25-2008, 03:00 PM
 
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I am returning this thread. I have removed several posts for user agreement violations.

Please keep in mind the following when posting.



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#529 of 529 Old 09-25-2008, 03:31 PM
 
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yesterday i made a comment which many of you may have taken as a slight. i meant nothing by it. if anyone was offended it was not my intentions.
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