I got in trouble for DS going "potty" outside school - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-06-2008, 10:19 PM
 
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My opinion is that if they make it incredibly difficult and risky for a young child to use the bathroom (and having to wait with a full bladder to be let in is just asking for an accident, he'll probably end up going out side anyway only not behind a tree), they really can't expect every student to beable to make it inside in time.
What exactly is difficult and risky about the mom walking the child to the office door to be let in? I have found that little kids will generally go at least a little when sat on the potty. If going into the building is too much of a hassle and if it so risky to the child to wait for a few minutes with a full bladder then maybe he should be taken home after school until he is better able to let his mom know when he has to go to the bathroom.

The bottom line is that the school has stated that they do not want children going to the bathroom on the playground and they have that right to make such a rule. The OP really has 2 choices, take her child into the building every day after picking him up to take him to the bathroom so that he can play without worry after school or teach the child that if he indeed does go to the bathroom outside on the playground again that the result will be that they leave immediately for home with trips to the playground restricted in the future until he is able to understand that the playground is not an acceptable washroom.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:30 PM
 
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I think I'd really just work the teachers to let you in the school by his room to take him to the bathroom near their class.

"Hi teacher, I was wondering since X needs to go to the bathroom so often while we're on the playground after school, can I just pick him up at the door and then scoot in to the bathroom with him so we don't have to walk all the way around the building and have to do the sign in process? I'd really appreciate it." Said with a dazzling smile. - You're not asking to pick him up in a different spot, you're just asking to get him at the door, walk back in to the bathroom, and then walk back out, together. I'd try for that, personally. If not that, then I'd get a portable potty for my car, or I'd walk around the school and take him to the bathroom, every time.

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Old 11-06-2008, 10:31 PM
 
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We also ec'ed part time and I work outdoors, so dd and I have no problems using trees as potties.

That said, I choose a place that people aren't going to be touching in the near future. Even if pee is sterile, I just don't want to think about people touching other peoples' pee all of the time. A playground is a place that people will likely touch.

I'd totally do the "pee in a bottle" as backup. And try to take him to the washroom after class, even if it's a hassle. I'd also try to get the teachers to take the kids on a bathroom break before they go. I know my dd would do poorly in that situation because like many preschoolers, she tends to hold it until the last minute...and suffered a UTI because of it. So we are focusing on NOT holding it.

One trick I've learned with her is NOT to ask if she needs to pee, but to ask her to check her body and see if she is holding it. We talk about how it is uncomfortable to hold it. I also say that I need to pee if she hasn't gone in a while, and when I head to the washroom she miraculously needs to go too.

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Old 11-07-2008, 12:27 AM
 
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My opinion is that if they make it incredibly difficult and risky for a young child to use the bathroom (and having to wait with a full bladder to be let in is just asking for an accident, he'll probably end up going out side anyway only not behind a tree), they really can't expect every student to beable to make it inside in time.
We're not talking about a kid who had an accident or two on the playgroung. We're talking about a kid who has developed a habit of peeing on the school playground. We're also not talking about a place and time where the child or the parent has a definitive right to be. It's after hours, the school can close the playground, they can oust the family, once or forever. They can probably suspend the kid. It really doesn't matter what the mother or any of you think of the school's decision or rules. There still are only 2 choices--Take the child out of school; or Follow the school's rules by changing the kids routine and habit.

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Old 11-07-2008, 01:06 AM
 
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We're not talking about a kid who had an accident or two on the playgroung. We're talking about a kid who has developed a habit of peeing on the school playground. We're also not talking about a place and time where the child or the parent has a definitive right to be. It's after hours, the school can close the playground, they can oust the family, once or forever. They can probably suspend the kid. It really doesn't matter what the mother or any of you think of the school's decision or rules. There still are only 2 choices--Take the child out of school; or Follow the school's rules by changing the kids routine and habit.
No we're dealing with a boy who's done it "a few times before". That is hardly a habit. It's not like he'd doing it everyday, or that he only goes in the school yard. A few times tells me that theres anothing factor influencing, and my suspicion is that having to be let into the school by someone else to use the bathroom is probably a part of that... If they don't want a 4 year old to pee in the playground after hours they need to have a more direct route to the toilet. I can promise you he is not the only four year old who waits till the last minute. Any school run by someone with half a brain knows that when you gotta go, you gotta go and someone who's more recently mastered using the toilet can't wait around for someone to let them in the door.

Sorry but I do think the school is partially responsible.

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Old 11-07-2008, 01:11 AM
 
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But the thing is, schools now have to be super super careful, almost anal, about safety. I completely understand why they require everyone to enter by the same main doors.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:17 AM
 
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I can understand that, but if there are people in there to let you in, then can't they leave that one door unlocked so they see everyone who comes in? Is their only two choices really having all the doors locked or none of the doors locked?

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Old 11-07-2008, 01:21 AM
 
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My oldest is hs'd now, but when she attended a ps the only way in was though the front main doors near the front office, all other doors were locked (you could open them from the inside, but not from the outside). I completely undertsand why they did it that way and I would actually have felt uncomfortable if people could just enter in the side doors at anytime.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:22 AM
 
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But my understanding is in this situation, getting into the school through any door requires waiting for someone to let you in.

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Old 11-07-2008, 01:25 AM
 
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I'm not sure the set up of the school, but I'm sure it's for security reasons which really outweigh this, imo.
Maybe a portable potty wouldn't be a bad idea.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:39 AM
 
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Sorry but I do think the school is partially responsible.
How is the school at all responsible for something that is happening after school hours have ended for the day for this child?
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:41 AM
 
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But my understanding is in this situation, getting into the school through any door requires waiting for someone to let you in.
This is how you enter my DD's school - you ring the bell at the main door and the secrtetary buzzes you in - takes all of a few seconds to enter. If school is in session I doubt that the office would leave anyone standing there for very long.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:56 AM
 
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I don't really have an opinion that hasn't already been covered in some form or another on the whole "issue" if that's the word you want to use of a four year old peeing outside.

I am really truly seriously confused though by all of the people who are truly grossed out by the thought of this. We are talking about an outside playground right? And he wasn't on equiptment, he was behind a tree right?

Seriously? I absolutely 100% guarantee there is already pee AND poop there. Dogs, cats, chipmunks, squirrils, rats, mice, rabbits, birds... (some of these might not apply due to region but you get my point).

And then you have the toddlers... the ones that leak out of their diapers (or are already diaper free but not potty learned) or who have an accident outside when they are potty learned. It's not different suddenly in terms of actual biological substance wise for it to be a 1, 2 or 3 year old and a 4 year old.

Call the discipline issue what you will... but the grossness factor on the bodily fluid that some people are displaying is way misplaced IMO. Your kids are touching worse if they are playing outside in the dirt or touching trees etc.

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Old 11-07-2008, 02:00 AM
 
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How is the school at all responsible for something that is happening after school hours have ended for the day for this child?
They won't let the parents come in first.

They apparently won't take the kids to the bathroom right before it's time to leave if they need to go, I think that's what I got from the OP.

If the OP's son needs to go, he has to wait until they all go outside, then he and mom troop back inside after everyone has exited the building.

That's just dumb. They are setting up the situation where he has to wait to go, when they could just let him go before he leaves, it seems to me. Or, if they're going to let moms come back inside anyway, why not let them in beforehand? The whole reasoning is just silly. They make him wait until he has to go, then they get upset when he has to go. :

How can they be 100% sure he can make it back inside?

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Old 11-07-2008, 02:09 AM
 
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If the OP's son needs to go, he has to wait until they all go outside, then he and mom troop back inside after everyone has exited the building.
Where did it say in the OP's posts that her son was not allowed to go to t he bathroom while at school? I do recall her saying that the bathroom was down the hall but I have a hard time believing that the teacher does not allow students to go to the bathroom during the 2 1/2 hours that they are at school. She also stated that it was a while after they had been outside that he did this so he didn't come out of the building doing the pee pee dance like I have seen my girls do on occasion.

Once her son has left the building he is her responsibility - since he had done this a few times I think that either she needs to walk him back into the building to make sure he goes to the bathroom before going to the playground or take him home sooner. The school has made it very clear that using the playground as a washroom is unacceptable so she either has to find a way to get him to go to the bathroom before playing or risk the school saying that the playground is off limits to anyone who is not in class during the school day.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:27 AM
 
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Call the discipline issue what you will... but the grossness factor on the bodily fluid that some people are displaying is way misplaced IMO. Your kids are touching worse if they are playing outside in the dirt or touching trees etc.
Years ago i saw a news special about germs in public spaces. They had tested surfaces of grocery carts, bus seats & hold bars, taxi seats & doors, stair rails and elevator buttons, etc. Anyway, it was truly gross b'c EVERY area that was tested came back with a huge amount of fecal bacteria and a variety of other lovelies.

My sisters and I now whisper "feces" and laugh with each other whenever using public spaces and we're touching the tested spots. Soooo nasty.



Oops, forgot to address the OP! I don't have a problem with kids peeing outdoors in an emergency. Since it's a strict school policy, I'd try what pp's have said about getting them to let him use the toilet before your play session. Or change schools if you really disagree.

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Old 11-07-2008, 02:40 AM
 
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Seriously? I absolutely 100% guarantee there is already pee AND poop there. Dogs, cats, chipmunks, squirrils, rats, mice, rabbits, birds... (some of these might not apply due to region but you get my point).

And then you have the toddlers... the ones that leak out of their diapers (or are already diaper free but not potty learned) or who have an accident outside when they are potty learned. It's not different suddenly in terms of actual biological substance wise for it to be a 1, 2 or 3 year old and a 4 year old.

Call the discipline issue what you will... but the grossness factor on the bodily fluid that some people are displaying is way misplaced IMO. Your kids are touching worse if they are playing outside in the dirt or touching trees etc.
Its a preschool playground. Reasonable to assume its fenced. So, no dogs. Probably not that many wild small things either -- what rabbit in its right mind would make a home in a preschool playground? Preschool, so no toddlers. So I'm not sure how much sense that argument makes.

Regardless, its completely beside the point. The school has the right to make a rule. It could be "no red underwear". Families have a choice -- follow the rule or leave or try to change the rule.
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Old 11-07-2008, 03:02 AM
 
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Lets see, squirrels and chipmunks and cats (notorious for using dirt areas as a litter box) can all get over a fence and last time I checked, there are plenty of preschoolers who have younger siblings, no doubt there when mommy goes to pick up her kid from school.

OK, only semi-off topic. The University I went to had a rule, no smoking with in 7.5 meters of a doorway... They had three ashtrays two of them where about 2 meters from a door. Is it my fault I have to break the rules to put out a cigarette or the schools?

The reason I ask, is because it's pretty much the same situation. They have set up a proceedure that pretty much promises that a child at some point will be caught in a situation where they have to break the rule. Because it's either pee behind a tree on the playground, or pee in their pants on the playground. As for potty breaks during the school time, I'm pretty sure they don't let a preschool wander the halls by himself, which means if the teachers don't arranged for a child or the children to be taken to the bathroom right before the end of class, the child is stuck. He has to wait until mom comes and everyone else leaves and then is let back in.

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Old 11-07-2008, 03:30 AM
 
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They have set up a proceedure that pretty much promises that a child at some point will be caught in a situation where they have to break the rule. Because it's either pee behind a tree on the playground, or pee in their pants on the playground.
The school is not responsible for what happens with the child's potty breaks once he is dismissed from school at the end of each day - at that moment responsibility for the child switches back to the mom/dad/guardian so if there is any rule breaking that takes place it is not the fault of the school but the person responsible for the child.
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Old 11-07-2008, 03:37 AM
 
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Where did it say in the OP's posts that her son was not allowed to go to t he bathroom while at school? I do recall her saying that the bathroom was down the hall but I have a hard time believing that the teacher does not allow students to go to the bathroom during the 2 1/2 hours that they are at school. She also stated that it was a while after they had been outside that he did this so he didn't come out of the building doing the pee pee dance like I have seen my girls do on occasion.
from the OP

I said, ok, but then it would make sense for me to be able to pick him up at the gym and take him to the bathroom before going outside (since once he's out he's running off to the playground). She said no,because of security reasons, he will have to be sent out by the teacher the way they always do (parents must wait outside on the sidewalk), then I would have to walk down to the main door, ring the doorbell, then they will let us in to use the bathroom....ok well, you know how it is, you ask your dc if they have to go potty, they say no, then 10min later they have to go....so basically, I guess I'd have to just drag him to the bathroom, and not ask if he has to go. Then she said she was going to talk to his teacher about it, because I asked, don't they have a designated potty time? The bathroom is all the way down the hallway from the classroom, so the teacher has to take them altogether. So tomorrow I'll probably get a 3rd lecture from his teacher.


That pretty much tells me the teacher takes the children to pee at her convenience. : It truly sounds to me like the teacher and administrators are UAVs and are getting a taste of natural consequences for trying to schedule bladder function.

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Old 11-07-2008, 03:52 AM
 
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The school is not responsible for what happens with the child's potty breaks once he is dismissed from school at the end of each day - at that moment responsibility for the child switches back to the mom/dad/guardian so if there is any rule breaking that takes place it is not the fault of the school but the person responsible for the child.
So the school doesn't have to take any responsability towards make sure their rules are able to be followed? Might as well make a rule your not allowed to breath and punish students for that. If there's reasonable belief that at some point a situation will arise that prevents someone from following the rule, the school needs to take steps to fix that. You can't blame the OP or her son for problems arising from the way the school operates.

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Old 11-07-2008, 04:31 AM
 
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I agree with the PPs that since it is school property, they can make the rules, no matter how many people think it is OK to pee outside ona regular basis (versus an unexpected or emeergency situation). OP knows that her son may have to go potty after school, based on his past behavior. It is up to her to take him in to the school to go to the potty BEFORE hitting the playground (then no worries about him holding it in while somebody unlocks the door). They are permitted to stay on the playground after class, which is nice for the parents and kids. If they want to stay, they need to respect the rules, which are reasonable. If 30 kids peed on the playground everyday, can anybody honestly say that the school would not have a sanitation issue?

If it is too much trouble for the OP to attend to her son's needs in a way that does not infringe on others, then she needs to find another solution - a bottle, a portable potty, or a playground where peeing is OK (don't think that there are any except a dog park).

Sorry folks, urine may be sterile, but that does not translate to sanitary. Have you not ever smelled an area that was frequented by urinators? Yuck! The world is not your toilet.

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Old 11-07-2008, 04:47 AM
 
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Urine is sterile and has been used as antiseptics and to treat verious other ailments over the centuries. Want OP to take her kid to the bathroom after school, then make it so she can take her kid to the bathroom after school instead of standing outside until everyone is gone.

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Old 11-07-2008, 04:55 AM
 
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Exactly. Like I said before, they set him up for failure, then they get mad about it. Silly and smacks of control for the sake of control. Not nice. :

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Old 11-07-2008, 04:56 AM
 
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Urine is sterile and has been used as antiseptics and to treat verious other ailments over the centuries. Want OP to take her kid to the bathroom after school, then make it so she can take her kid to the bathroom after school instead of standing outside until everyone is gone.
Where did it say that she had to stand outside until everyone is gone?All she said was that to use the washroom she had to walk around to the main entrance and ring to be let in the school - from her own words she only has to wait until her son walks out of the building with his class before she can walk to the main entrance to use thh washroom - no mention of having to wait for everyone else to leave.

It really doesn't matter if urine is sterile or not, the school has stated on several occasions that they do not allow children to go to the bathroom on the playground.
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Old 11-07-2008, 05:14 AM
 
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Where did it say that she had to stand outside until everyone is gone?All she said was that to use the washroom she had to walk around to the main entrance and ring to be let in the school - from her own words she only has to wait until her son walks out of the building with his class before she can walk to the main entrance to use thh washroom - no mention of having to wait for everyone else to leave.

It really doesn't matter if urine is sterile or not, the school has stated on several occasions that they do not allow children to go to the bathroom on the playground.
It's a ridiculous amount of back and forth. Why? You would think they would want to make it easier for children to use the bathroom.

But then, I used to live in the SF Bay Area, where the entire city smelled like a urinal, but there were even restaurants that didn't have restrooms for customers to use! As I told the manager at a McDonalds in downtown SF one day it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you feed people in your restaurant and don't offer a bathroom, sooner or later somebody's gonna pi$$ in your doorway.

Yes, the OP needs to keep teaching her son. But the people at the school are kind of setting themselves up, imo. I'm sure it's much more gratifying for them to be right than it is to make it easier for these children to take care of their personal needs without being humiliated and having to jump through ridiculous hoops. Plus they get the added bonus of clucking their tongues at a young mother and feeling superior about their parenting skills. They must feel so proud.

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Old 11-07-2008, 06:40 AM
 
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OP stated that she has to wait for her son outside and only when the students have been let out can she take him back in... It's like... ordering in McD's and then having to go out, get in your car and head through the drive through the pick it up... Why is it too hard to ask that the students be allowed to use the washroom before they leave the school?

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Old 11-07-2008, 08:01 AM
 
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Because, presumably, 5 year olds need to be chaperoned out the door. You can't have kids going in different directions, including the bathroom. Why is it such a BIG deal that the parent needs to accompany the kid back into school to go to the bathroom. Hardly seems onerous to me. If you want the privilege of staying on school grounds, make just a little bit of effort to make sure that the grounds remain usable for all the children!

Apparently doing it rong and ruining it for everyone, but I don't give a crap anymorebanana.gif

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Old 11-07-2008, 12:20 PM
 
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My friend takes her son from the playground to her car and her son pees on the car tires. (her car of course) It's fun, it's outside, and nobody seems to mind.

Maybe the OP could do that if it's more convenient for her than going inside.

I agree that going back inside would be a hassle, especially if they need to be let back in. But, I wouldn't want children peeing on the trees in my backyard, so I would expect the parent to make sure it doesn't happen.

If she also can't make her son go pee in a bathroom, then perhaps she could ask the teachers to make sure he goes at the end of the day. I'm sure they are busy with the other kids and getting ready to go, but I doubt they would mind that much.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amma_mama View Post
Because, presumably, 5 year olds need to be chaperoned out the door. You can't have kids going in different directions, including the bathroom. Why is it such a BIG deal that the parent needs to accompany the kid back into school to go to the bathroom. Hardly seems onerous to me. If you want the privilege of staying on school grounds, make just a little bit of effort to make sure that the grounds remain usable for all the children!
Exactly. And frankly, no, the school does not have to take responsility for your kids peeing somewhere they shouldn't. Either take them back inside to pee or leave. I'm really not understanding the huge issue here.
Does anyone here actually understand how much is involved taking a large group of preschoolers to the bathroom? They obviously do it at least once during the 2.5 hours, but if they had to do it again right before class let out, there would be virtually no time left. The school is rightly assuming that you can take your child to the bathroom after class lets out if they need to go.
What happened to some parental responsibility? Yes, the school might be locked up more than you would like, but it is a safety measure which imo, trumps being inconvenienced by having to go back inside to use the potty.
I would also like to mention that I have never heard of a school allowing kids & parents to play on the playground while school is in session. Hell, most schools I know of don't even allow that after school. It would be considered trespassing.

Really, it shouldn't be that big of an issue. Either take it up with a higher up, find someplace else to play, get a portable potty, or follow the rules and take a couple minutes to go back in and use the restroom.
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