I got in trouble for DS going "potty" outside school - Page 5 - Mothering Forums
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#121 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 07:43 PM
 
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Ours are shut after school hours, you cannot stay and play, and they don't re-open either. I suspect behavior just like the OP was taking place, and rough housing, and they were probably worried about property damage, clean up, and liability. So now no one can use it.
Boy is that ever a bummer!

Public schools in NY can not turn the public away unless they 1) have a dog 2) are using language that is abusive 3) bullying children 4) are a registered sex offender. If anyone is there that the school doesn't think is ok (as in, an adult w/out kids or any one of the 4 options above), then they have to call the police. That said, they have doors locked policy (all the time) for the safety of the children, so only the front door is open. If you want to pee, you go arouuuuund the school, pee, and then you can exit any door you want. You are also supposed to sign in and out, which is a safety thing as well. Since all the schools around here provide after care for the children of working parents, no one would get to use the playgrounds during the week at all - after care goes until 6:30pm. Even in summer, kids eat dinner etc., so that would suck big time! This way, kids with parents can join in with the kids who are part of aftercare, but older kids (like ones who ride bikes etc.) are supposed to go home and come back w/a parent. But they don't always. They are still responsible for their behavior and the monitors can and do kick kids off who don't behave.

The private schools do NOT have to allow any kid on the playground that is not with their class. Traditionally, families who belong to the school do use the playgrounds whenever they want - I bring ds (3) to pick up dd (10) and we go 30 min. early so he can play on the playground at her Montessori school. He's pretty good about saying when he needs to pee, but he's also been known to 1) poop in the backyard 2) pee anywhere, even right on the street while we are walking the dog!, 3) think peeing in public/outisde is funny. We've had a bunch of discussions about where it is appropriate to pee if you are outside, like if we are on a trail etc. and WHEN it is appropriate to pee outside, and when it is not. Since he gets it (hasn't done anything naughty pee-wise in oh, probably 3+ months now), and he's about the same age as your ds, I'm guessing your ds is also developmentally ready to learn that peeing on school playgrounds is NOT ok. Ever. If he doesn't get it, then I would not let him play there, unfortunately. He'll get it, I only hope he gets it before he isn't allowed to play on the playground.

Hugs for the crappy treatment, mama.

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#122 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sprungthe2.50 View Post
But again, it's not the teacher's job to make the parent's life easier, the parent's should be taking their children to the bathroom at the end of the day after hours. It's not easy at all to organize a bathroom break for dozens of kids at once, for the few children that need it at the end of the day, their parent's should be the one that do it.
Then the school shouldn't be making it as hard as possible for them to do it. I would genuinly PO'd if I found out DD wasn't allowed to go to the washroom before leaving the school

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#123 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 08:33 PM
 
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And no, kids will not always go pee when asked to try, I didn't see anyone saying that either.
Actually it was said. One of the posters suggested taking him to the bathroom and telling him to go pee. My response was basically what you said, that you can take the child there, doesn't mean they will or even try. Anyway, yes someone basically mentioned that you can get a four yo to go to the bathroom when you want them to...

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#124 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 08:38 PM
 
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Then the school shouldn't be making it as hard as possible for them to do it. I would genuinly PO'd if I found out DD wasn't allowed to go to the washroom before leaving the school
Nobody said she wasn't they just aren't scheduling special breaks for it.

The reason it is so difficult is because of liability, people sue over the dumbest things, also it's safety. If you are going to allow one parent to pick up a child wherever in the school you have to do it for all, so everything is all over the place and helter skelter. They are trying to do it in a sfe and orderly fashion that they have to do because they are responsible for the kids until the parents get them.

They aren't trying to make it difficult on purpose, they just aren't re-arranging everything to make quite harder for themselves and just a little easier for an individual.
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#125 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 08:43 PM
 
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Read my post again, dozens of kids being released from school, end of the day, teachers want to go home to their own kids and lives, and they need to make sure the children go safely to their parents, they need to coordinate an entire break to go to the bathroom so the kids are all fresh and ready to go with their parents so mum and dad don't need to worry about it when they pick up the kids?

It's great that your school may be small enough to do that, but the vast majority of schools aren't.
DD's school isn't small... and guess what Kindergarteners get take to the bathroom right before dismisal too...

People keep saying "Why should kids have to go on a potty break just because one child has to go?" I say why does one child have to risk getting in trouble for going on the playgroud or risk having an accident just because they are the only one that has to go? Which is worse? Spending 15 minutes in the bathroom when you don't have to pee, or having an accident and having go home in wet pants?

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#126 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 08:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sprungthe2.50 View Post
Nobody said she wasn't they just aren't scheduling special breaks for it.

The reason it is so difficult is because of liability, people sue over the dumbest things, also it's safety. If you are going to allow one parent to pick up a child wherever in the school you have to do it for all, so everything is all over the place and helter skelter. They are trying to do it in a sfe and orderly fashion that they have to do because they are responsible for the kids until the parents get them.
Then take the kids to the bathroom in a safe and orderly fashion just before the last bell...

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#127 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 08:49 PM
 
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DD's school isn't small... and guess what Kindergarteners get take to the bathroom right before dismisal too...

People keep saying "Why should kids have to go on a potty break just because one child has to go?" I say why does one child have to risk getting in trouble for going on the playgroud or risk having an accident just because they are the only one that has to go? Which is worse? Spending 15 minutes in the bathroom when you don't have to pee, or having an accident and having go home in wet pants?
He doesn't his mom can bring him back in a take him to the bathroom, he does this while he's playing, not the minute he gets out the door.

And if it's the last bell, you are forgetting that they are required to have a certain amount of class time no matter what, they can't take an extra 15 minutes out of it, and if kids are all antsy because it's the end of the day you think it will be easy to get them to go in an and out without a huge rucus and extra coordination? If your kid needs it, you take the responsibility and take the extra hassle rather than having the entire school do it.

If a school is already doing it, because of getting on coats etc, it's for their own convenience because it would be a lot harder to bundle them up with kids then saying they needed to go to the bathroom. You're calling them lazy as if you were expecting cutomer service.
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#128 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 08:55 PM
 
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Then take the kids to the bathroom in a safe and orderly fashion just before the last bell...
But as you said earlier in this thread:

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Um, you can talk all you want, but unless you strap him to the potty until he can't hold it anymore, you can't force a child to go...
Even if the teacher were to schedule a class potty break just before the bell rings at the end of their class for the day who's to say that her son will have to go at that moment as opposed to when mom walks him out to the playground to play.
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#129 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:09 PM
 
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I agree with the PPs that since it is school property, they can make the rules, no matter how many people think it is OK to pee outside ona regular basis (versus an unexpected or emeergency situation). OP knows that her son may have to go potty after school, based on his past behavior. It is up to her to take him in to the school to go to the potty BEFORE hitting the playground (then no worries about him holding it in while somebody unlocks the door). They are permitted to stay on the playground after class, which is nice for the parents and kids. If they want to stay, they need to respect the rules, which are reasonable. If 30 kids peed on the playground everyday, can anybody honestly say that the school would not have a sanitation issue?

If it is too much trouble for the OP to attend to her son's needs in a way that does not infringe on others, then she needs to find another solution - a bottle, a portable potty, or a playground where peeing is OK (don't think that there are any except a dog park).

Sorry folks, urine may be sterile, but that does not translate to sanitary. Have you not ever smelled an area that was frequented by urinators? Yuck! The world is not your toilet.

well said!
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#130 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:10 PM
 
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Just wondering where these preschool classes are that are composed of 'dozens' of children with one adult in charge of them...isn't that child/adult ratio illegal?

a dozen is 12, dozens implies more than one dozen, so what, 2 dozen? 24, or 3 dozen to qualify as 'dozens', so that would be 36 preschoolers with one teacher? I sure hope that's not the case. I don't think it is, so let's stop saying 'taking dozens of 4 year olds to potty'. It's inflammatory to continue doing so.

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#131 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:11 PM
 
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The school was rude to you.
On this, I think everyone here would agree.
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#132 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:13 PM
 
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On this, I think everyone here would agree.
Yes, and if the adults working for the school have no qualms about shaming, disrespecting, tsk-tsking, and shaking their heads in disappointment toward another adult, imagine how they must treat the children.

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#133 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:15 PM
 
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I'm telling you, from experience, a big class of young children do this everyday at my daughter's school, with a minimum of fuss, so why the resistance?

Why the resistence to taking your child back into the school to pee? It's certainly much less inconvenient for you to do so with one child as opposed to 1-2 teachers with 12-25 kids. Especially since, as you say, he doesn't pee on command, and this is happening sometime after you get to the playground. If he doesn't pee on command for you, why would you expect him to do so for a teacher, especially before he has the biological urge to do so?

I realize the OP is not you...but you're responding as though he was, so, I pose this to you.
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#134 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:16 PM
 
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Just wondering where these preschool classes are that are composed of 'dozens' of children with one adult in charge of them...isn't that child/adult ratio illegal?

a dozen is 12, dozens implies more than one dozen, so what, 2 dozen? 24, or 3 dozen to qualify as 'dozens', so that would be 36 preschoolers with one teacher? I sure hope that's not the case. I don't think it is, so let's stop saying 'taking dozens of 4 year olds to potty'. It's inflammatory to continue doing so.
I'm talking about the school letting out as a whole, but I'm pretty sure 1 teacher is in charge of over a 12 kindergarteners, yes. I know teachers that have has 25 students in one class for 1st graders. It's still a lot of kids to 1 person, you can't get around that.
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#135 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:17 PM
 
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No, your not hearing about other kids doing this because the OP only knows about her son. For all we know those (dozens? Seriously?) other kids could be having a similar issue only aren't staying after school to play. And yes, I believe like nursemummy, that when I have to go to the bathroom I have a right to go with minimal fuss that does not include waiting until someone else says I can come inside and go. If I were the OP's son I'd be peeing on the tree just to prove they can't control my baser needs.

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#136 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:21 PM
 
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Why the resistence to taking your child back into the school to pee? It's certainly much less inconvenient for you to do so with one child as opposed to 1-2 teachers with 12-25 kids. Especially since, as you say, he doesn't pee on command, and this is happening sometime after you get to the playground. If he doesn't pee on command for you, why would you expect him to do so for a teacher, especially before he has the biological urge to do so?
Because IME - it is less inconvenient for the teacher to do it.

YMMV.

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#137 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:21 PM
 
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Can't read all 8 pages, but scheduling a bathroom break sounds simple and yet.....is not. I'm a teacher and the mechanics of that vary. Depends on if the primary grades have their own bathrooms, class sizes, lunch/snack schedules, and specials classes. (Art, music, etc.) To be honest, I wouldn't want my four year old to whip out his pee pee in public for the third graders to view and make fun of him for. And frankly, who wants the playground to be a place where just anyone could urinate?
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#138 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:22 PM
 
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Yes, and if the adults working for the school have no qualms about shaming, disrespecting, tsk-tsking, and shaking their heads in disappointment toward another adult, imagine how they must treat the children.
I think it may not translate to the children, it was an adult who was allowing her child to urinate on a tree where other kids were playing multiple times, from their point of view they were probably really upset.
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#139 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:23 PM
 
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I think my head would have exploded the first time someone lectured me about an incident I had already handled. :

Wow.

Did they think once he started you could stop him mid-stream?


yep. do they think that you are stupid? It was an uncontrollable situation at the time. You know its not your little boy's fault right? It's not the end of the world and it's not the big deal they are making it out to be. Just on of those things. Tell them to put a sock in it and let you do your job without being lectured like you're the 4yr old.

 

 

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#140 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:23 PM
 
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I'm talking about the school letting out as a whole,
but I don't think it is the whole school because:

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He only goes to pre-k from 7:30-10

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#141 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:24 PM
 
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IME adults who don't respect other adults, rarely show the same respect to even their own children let alone another persons.

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#142 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:24 PM
 
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No, your not hearing about other kids doing this because the OP only knows about her son. For all we know those (dozens? Seriously?) other kids could be having a similar issue only aren't staying after school to play. And yes, I believe like nursemummy, that when I have to go to the bathroom I have a right to go with minimal fuss that does not include waiting until someone else says I can come inside and go. If I were the OP's son I'd be peeing on the tree just to prove they can't control my baser needs.
You're much more succinct than I am - thank you.

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#143 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:24 PM
 
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Because IME - it is less inconvenient for the teacher to do it.

YMMV.
??????

Less inconvenient for who? You or the teacher?
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#144 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:25 PM
 
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IME adults who don't respect other adults, rarely show the same respect to even their own children let alone another persons.
So true.

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??????

Less inconvenient for who? You or the teacher?
The teacher - parents and children are not appreciated back in the school after final bell. We've been told as much...

And - I'm coming from my experience as an ECE... in the trenches, so to speak.

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#146 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:33 PM
 
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You're much more succinct than I am - thank you.
Would you feel that way if someone chose a place where you play as a spot to pee?

If this was a singular incident then the school was way out of line, but the op said it was multiple times and he'd decided it was his spot. The school said it wasn't and unfortunately do not have the time or means to change a schedule or designated release spot because of the legalities, bureaucracy and rules they need to abide by themselves.
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#147 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:37 PM
 
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And what happens if the teacher does rearrage the schedule, and takes the kids to the bathroom 15 minutes before leaving and they DON'T pee at that time - especially since, as has been pointed out over and over, some kids don't pee on command? Then what? Do we even know when the potty breaks *are* for these kids? Is it possible they're going 10/15/30 minutes before dismissal, and some of the kids just aren't peeing then?

I've taught. You figure 10 minutes minimum to get preschoolers dressed/bags packed/ etc to leave. If you're going potty before that, that's another 10 minutes. Then pickup is 5-10 mins minimum. So, that's 25 minutes at least from pee to dismissal. A lot of kids who didn't have to pee at the D-25 mark may well have to at D+5. At which point the PARENT has a RESPONSIBILITY to take the child to the bathroom. It's really not that hard. If it *is* so hard, perhaps the parent should go home, let the child use the bathroom, and then come back or go to an alternate park.
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#148 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 09:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
Just wondering where these preschool classes are that are composed of 'dozens' of children with one adult in charge of them...isn't that child/adult ratio illegal?

a dozen is 12, dozens implies more than one dozen, so what, 2 dozen? 24, or 3 dozen to qualify as 'dozens', so that would be 36 preschoolers with one teacher? I sure hope that's not the case. I don't think it is, so let's stop saying 'taking dozens of 4 year olds to potty'. It's inflammatory to continue doing so.
In our public school district it is not uncommon to see 24+ kids in a preschool/kindergarten clann. My DD's class was 26 last year because the school had 10 new students arrive after the year started and there was no space in the building to start a 3rd section. Her teacher, FWIW, did not have a dedicated aide just help on occasion including help from parents. So in my personal situation, taking dozens of children is neither inflammatory nor incorrect.
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[QUOTE=Sprungthe2.50;12564087]Would you feel that way if someone chose a place where you play as a spot to pee? [QUOTE]

I don't think it was right for him to pee there - I never, ever said so.

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Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post
In our public school district it is not uncommon to see 24+ kids in a preschool/kindergarten clann. My DD's class was 26 last year because the school had 10 new students arrive after the year started and there was no space in the building to start a 3rd section. Her teacher, FWIW, did not have a dedicated aide just help on occasion including help from parents. So in my personal situation, taking dozens of children is neither inflammatory nor incorrect.
thank you........
Sprungthe2.50 is offline  
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