I got in trouble for DS going "potty" outside school - Page 6 - Mothering Forums
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#151 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post
In our public school district it is not uncommon to see 24+ kids in a preschool/kindergarten clann. My DD's class was 26 last year because the school had 10 new students arrive after the year started and there was no space in the building to start a 3rd section. Her teacher, FWIW, did not have a dedicated aide just help on occasion including help from parents. So in my personal situation, taking dozens of children is neither inflammatory nor incorrect.
Which is also not mom's fault... It's the systems fault. Another reason I like Canada, it's illegal to have 24 kids in a preschool class.

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#152 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:22 PM
 
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Which is also not mom's fault... It's the systems fault. Another reason I like Canada, it's illegal to have 24 kids in a preschool class.
I'd love that too, I lived in Canada and miss it dearly, but the best solution to this is to just take the kid to the bathroom yourself and not expect the teachers to pick up the slack for a crappy system. Believe me, they'd change it all in a heart beat if they could.
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#153 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:22 PM
 
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Which is also not mom's fault... It's the systems fault. Another reason I like Canada, it's illegal to have 24 kids in a preschool class.
That would never happen in Ontario (I live up north) - I think that would be a huge safety issue to have that many kids in a class.

I'm not saying the teacher is to blame. I'm saying that motions and actions could be undertaken to make this situation better.

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#154 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:38 PM
 
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\
I'm not saying the teacher is to blame. I'm saying that motions and actions could be undertaken to make this situation better.
There you go being the succinct one now. That is exactly it.

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#155 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:43 PM
 
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That would never happen in Ontario (I live up north) - I think that would be a huge safety issue to have that many kids in a class.

I'm not saying the teacher is to blame. I'm saying that motions and actions could be undertaken to make this situation better.
But the motions and actions you suggested aren't practical, if even do-able, especially to just make a parent's life easier on taking her child to the bathroom and you said the teachers were being lazy.
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#156 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sprungthe2.50 View Post
not expect the teachers to pick up the slack for a crappy system.
I don't believe the OP is wanting the teachers to take up the slack, I believe she is expressing the teacher was rude to her and that she has a potty problem with her son.

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#157 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:46 PM
 
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I think that the school staff was likely being rude in the manner which they handled this.

BUT - I also think that they are well within their rights to insist she not allow her son to urinate outdoors.

Not just as a matter of school policy, but I am not aware of any places where public urination isn't illegal. It's not just something the school has made up - were it an adult urinating on the tree, they could be facing a ticket / fine (I believe it's likely a misdemeanor).

At what age does public urination (not just outdoors, but PUBLIC) become unacceptable ?

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/public-urination/

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#158 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:49 PM
 
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But the motions and actions you suggested aren't practical, if even do-able, especially to just make a parent's life easier on taking her child to the bathroom and you said the teachers were being lazy.
If they aren't practical or do-able, then why are other schools in other areas able to do it?

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#159 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:54 PM
 
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I really think that maybe we should get away from issue on whether or not it's acceptable to pee outside, but just help the OP find other options (like we have tried to do) as well as dealing with the rudeness.

Potty issue:

Explain to dc that urinating at the playground is *not* an option and that if he needs to go he can go inside or use a portable potty. If it it happens again, calmly explain that he broke the rules and that it is time to leave.

Teacher/AP issue:
I would write a letter or call and speak to (or both) the teacher as well as the AP and explain how bothered you were by how you were treated. They need to know that being rude to a parent is not acceptable. Take it up with the principal if needed.
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#160 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 10:59 PM
 
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If they aren't practical or do-able, then why are other schools in other areas able to do it?
That's what I'd like to know. I've offered my very real, and timely experience, and it's just being completely discredited.

And again, I don't think the teacher (persay) needs to be the fixer here. Nor do I think that everyone accepts public urination (a four year old peeing on a tree wouldn't bother me - but it's not about me).

I will recant on the teachers being lazy. It really raises my ire when other adults in the educational field are behaving in a subpar manner (i.e. the OP's post about the confrontation with the teacher).

There is a fix here, that's all I'm trying to say. Maybe the OP needs to go higher up the food chain?

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#161 of 173 Old 11-07-2008, 11:06 PM
 
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I've taught. You figure 10 minutes minimum to get preschoolers dressed/bags packed/ etc to leave. If you're going potty before that, that's another 10 minutes. Then pickup is 5-10 mins minimum. So, that's 25 minutes at least from pee to dismissal. A lot of kids who didn't have to pee at the D-25 mark may well have to at D+5. At which point the PARENT has a RESPONSIBILITY to take the child to the bathroom.
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I'm pretty sure almost all of us agree that the teacher/AP did not handle it well and were rude/condescending...and that should be addressed...but that doesn't change the fact that after picking up her son from class, it's the mom's responsibility to come up ith an alternate bathroom arrangement for her son (bottle, bathroom, potty in the van), especially if it's becoming a pattern. It would be nice if the playground had a porta potty, but it doesn't, so it's up to the parent to find the solution.

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#162 of 173 Old 11-11-2008, 12:27 PM
 
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#163 of 173 Old 11-11-2008, 12:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mattysmomma View Post
After picking DS (4yrs old) up at school, we usually stay at the school playground for another hour or so to hang out with his friends/ other moms...Well, today as soon as he was at the playground, he said he had to go potty and ran to the corner (behind a tree) and peed on the tree.
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...not only that, the OP stated that ehr son had the incidents an hour after being at the playground after class...not 5 or 10 minutes. So even if he did go before dismissal (say 20 min, to accomodate the whole class pottying and dismissal time), he was then with his mom for an HOUR before he peed on the tree...which is WAY out of the responsibilit of the school at that point.
MattysMomma's ds peed as soon as they went to the playground, not an hour later.
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#164 of 173 Old 11-11-2008, 02:05 PM
 
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MattysMomma's ds peed as soon as they went to the playground, not an hour later.
WOOP! Big time misread. I'll go edit my post. Sorry and thanks.


I still think mom should be the one to take kiddo to the bathroom herself, even if it is a pain for her, regardless of if it's 5 min or an hour after release from school.

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#165 of 173 Old 11-11-2008, 03:21 PM
 
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Yes, and if the adults working for the school have no qualms about shaming, disrespecting, tsk-tsking, and shaking their heads in disappointment toward another adult, imagine how they must treat the children.
That is a very good point.

I'm confused about something. When my ds was in preschool, being potty trained was a requirement, and since the children are potty trained, is there a reason they can't go to the bathroom when they need to during class? Are they expected to sit there the entire time until their parents arrive, or is there a time in the middle of the session where everyone goes as a group and waits their turn at the bathroom? Neither one seems to make a lot of sense to me.

I remember my earliest classroom experiences, and there was always a bathroom attached to the classroom in pre-k to at least 1st or 2nd grade. Only the older children had to actually leave the classroom to go to the bathrooms. Is this place just not designed well, or what?

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#166 of 173 Old 11-11-2008, 05:36 PM
 
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I'm confused about something. When my ds was in preschool, being potty trained was a requirement, and since the children are potty trained, is there a reason they can't go to the bathroom when they need to during class? Are they expected to sit there the entire time until their parents arrive, or is there a time in the middle of the session where everyone goes as a group and waits their turn at the bathroom? Neither one seems to make a lot of sense to me.

I remember my earliest classroom experiences, and there was always a bathroom attached to the classroom in pre-k to at least 1st or 2nd grade. Only the older children had to actually leave the classroom to go to the bathrooms. Is this place just not designed well, or what?
I think a lot of this depends on the specific school. As far as I can tell from having read the entire thread, we do NOT know the answers to these questions about the OPs school, other than the fact that the bathroom is down the hall.

For my kid's preschool, the bathrooms were off the central hallway. Not ideal, but the building was originally designed for (and is still used as) a church's meeting rooms. So, the post-potty trained kids used the restroom on a schedule, with each class having specific times throughout the day for restroom trips. Between group trips a child could certainly request a restroom trip and one of the classroom teachers would stand in the doorway of the classroom to watch both classroom kids and bathroom child -- the second teacher would continue to teach the class. This was necessary as the hallway was open (not in an enclosed building, very typical of So. CA schools) so a child could easily leave the classroom and keep walking, ending up at the street without being noticed. These times were generally right ast they came in from the playground at 9 (before circle time), about 10:30 or so (varied by class), just before lunch (12, when 1/2 day children left), before nap (about 1), and after nap (about 3). The toddler room mostly had children in diapers, so they were changed in the room. The young 3's room where active potty training was taking place had the only classroom with an attached bathroom. Around here for preschools that were not originally built to be preschools, this is a common arrangement.

But again, there is no way to tell if any of this would apply to the OPs school.
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When dd was in Kindergarten last year, we used to go (me and all 3 kids) down to the playground to play after school. Everytime one of them would have to go potty. So up the hill we would walk, everytime I would have at least one crying child b/c they wanted to stay and play. It was a pain, but I still took them, I just didnt think it was the place to pee, unless it was a big time emergency. At ds preschool this year, it is the parents responsibility to take dc potty before and after school, and if they need to go during, there is an aide that comes to the class and takes them to the potty.

With that said, we have gone to the park or the woods, even in our own backyard and ds had to go bad, there was not enough time to get to a restroom, or there was not one around and I let him go in a very private spot and go. I just didnt want my two boys to make a habit of it.

Reading your post, I can see why you would be upset with the teachers. You were handling it on your own, it was not like you were sitting there talking to another mom and totally ignoring your dc while it happened. I think the teacher may have over-reacted, by stepping in while you were trying to parent your dc.

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I have to giggle, because my kids pee all the time on the school grounds.





















They're homeschooled on a 1,500 acre ranch.
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#169 of 173 Old 11-12-2008, 03:53 PM
 
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I am going to consider myself and my children mighty lucky that we have the school we have.... Our preschool has a bathroom with two child-sized potties in it and the kids can go whenever they need to without all the hullabaloo some of you are describing. If a child has an accident, there are spare clothes we send from home and the teachers will change them and even put the wet/soiled clothes in a bag to send home

There is an 18 child maximum for the youngest group with three teachers always present and 22 kids to three teachers for the next age group. For the four and young fives it is a 28 to 4 ratio and they have their own bathroom too. Class time is 8:30-12:00.

We live in a suburban California area so I recognize that our buildings are more conducive to easy access for the kids while at the same time having a secure campus, but I don't think I'd be interested in sending my kids to a preschool without its own bathroom or a higher ratio of kids to teachers. Preschool is private here so you have to make the choice of where to send your child if at all since it isn't mandatory.

I see the school's point about no pee on the playground, but I would be irritated if I were the OP and had multiple lectures on the same subject. :
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I have to giggle, because my kids pee all the time on the school grounds.





















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Damn, we are moving in.
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Damn, we are moving in.
Believe me, if it was ours, we would turn it into a commune in a heartbeat. But alas, we're just the care-takers. What the owners paid for it is about a bazillion times more than we could ever possibly afford on our budget.
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#172 of 173 Old 11-13-2008, 02:00 AM
 
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Wow, I can't believe that this thread is still alive! I am having a really hard time understanding the high expectations that are being placed on a preschool to make sure that the kids do not need to go potty after school, but have no expectations for the parents involved to preempt the situation by themselves. If you know your kid has to go potty soon after school let's out, then find an appropriate way to deal with it. Period. Go back into the school, bring a bottle, bring a portable potty - it is not exactly onerous. I find it hard to believe that any of these solutions are too onerous for the parent. Gosh, how does such a parent handle other issues in a child's life? If my kid is often hungry after school or play, I make sure to have a snack ready. If my child is often tired after school/play, then I make sure they can take a nap, rather than schedule other activities. If my child often has to pee after school/play, then we go to the potty before the next activity.

Yes, kids sometimes have emergencies/accidents. Kids get distracted at play and do not want to interrupt to go to the potty. My own daughter has had a few accidents. THe first time might be a surprise that you can do nothing about. THe second time, you tell yourself to remember to take your child to the potty BEFORE play. For those that think that the school is setting up the child for failure, the mother is also setting him up for failure. As a parent, it is MY role to guide my child, intervene when necessary, and make efforts to avoid such situations.

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#173 of 173 Old 11-13-2008, 03:05 AM
 
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Wow, I can't believe that this thread is still alive! I am having a really hard time understanding the high expectations that are being placed on a preschool to make sure that the kids do not need to go potty after school, but have no expectations for the parents involved to preempt the situation by themselves.
Wow, I read the whole thread and I agree with this. I keep wondering if the OP had come on to say that her son had decided his new place to pee was in car on the way home from school if she would have gotten the same answers. After all the pee is sterile and certainly you can't expect a four year old to not just whip it out and pee cause when you got to go you got to go right.
I also think it is great that they let you all stay and play on the playground afterschool and it does not seem unreasonable to me to expect you to go to the restroom with your son.
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