too many US harmful to baby? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I heard a bunch of people say that too many US are potentially harmful to the baby.
Do you guys know what the source of this warning is?
Also what is too many US?

I didn't hear this with my first baby (only had 2 US with first one anyway),so I would like to find out what this is all about.
Share your knowledge please : )
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#2 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 03:29 PM
 
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#3 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 05:15 PM
 
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Angela! Thank you for these links. You are a gem. :
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#4 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 05:20 PM
 
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On this same topic, what about the doppler device used to hear the baby's heartbeat. I was told by an OB that it uses the same sound waves as an ultrasound uses (in other words, "Why are you balking against getting an ultrasound, silly girl? You let your midwife listen for the heartbeat with a doppler...")

Any thoughts or information on doppler?
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#5 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 05:30 PM
 
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Doppler also uses ultrasound, some say it's worse. I refused all prenatal doppler. I did allow it in labor.

-Angela
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#6 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 06:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna
Doppler also uses ultrasound, some say it's worse. I refused all prenatal doppler. I did allow it in labor.

-Angela
Wow! It looks like I've got some more reading to do. I knew that there is some risk. After all, it is radiation, like U/S. We used the doppler a few times with DS. No U/S, though. I think that by 12 weeks or so, they can hear the baby with a fetoscope. So, I guess we will go with that.

Jean <-------:Puke

Jean, happy HS mom to Peter (5), Daniel (9) and Lucie (2) and also someone new... baby.gif
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#7 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 06:44 PM
 
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It generally takes until 18-20 weeks to hear a baby with a fetoscope. 12 weeks for doppler.

-Angela
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#8 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 06:47 PM
 
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I don't want to look at the links b/c I have u/s's scheduled for medical reasons. I'll freak myself out if I look. I needed quite a few last time too with ds. I think they have a time and a place and when it's used for the baby's health (or mommas) I think they are okay. I wish I had pregnancies where I didn't need them.
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#9 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 10:20 PM
 
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I refuse to having US's for any reason, but mind you that is my opinion. My midwife wont use doppler unless it is during labor.
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#10 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 10:44 PM
 
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argh.. don't tell me this.. I have to go to see a specialist every 4 weeks and they will be doing an ultrasound everytime because I am a super high risk ..and they want to make sure baby is developing correctly.. now I amgonna be all paranoid...
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#11 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 10:56 PM
 
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You can always refuse the u/s. It is very rare that they are truly needed.

-Angela
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#12 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 11:29 PM
 
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Most of the links in the pp were dead. I read one that showed abnormalities in cell division in a lab test on mice. The other links I could read mostly considered us unsafe b/c they can lead to more invasive procedures, ie c-sections.

As with all decisions in pregnancy, I think you have to weigh the positives vs. negatives. If you are high-risk, or your baby could be in danger of IUGR or something else that the us can diagnose, then I think the benefit outweighs the risk.
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#13 of 26 Old 06-13-2006, 11:33 PM
 
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Sorry about that- I put the links together about a year ago, I'll check through them before I post them again. A google for ultrasound dangers should get you some reading material. Yes, sometimes they can be quite useful medically. My issue with them is having them for ALL pregnancies and all the time.

-Angela
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#14 of 26 Old 06-14-2006, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the responses guys!
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#15 of 26 Old 06-17-2006, 09:37 PM
 
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Hi there

I've read through all the previous posts, but I still can't see any concrete reason why people would think that there is anything wrong with u/s.

Please could someone spell it out for the hard of hearing

I believe that they are safe for a number of reasons. Firstly a gazillion people have them every year. If there really was something bad happening, wouldn't someone have noticed something by now? In this litigious society have there been any lawsuits brought against the makers of these machines?

This is SUCH a risk averse country, doctors are covering their behinds all the time, if there was a sniff of something awful happening, they would all stop immediately.

Long live Elvis

Peace and love

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#16 of 26 Old 06-17-2006, 11:10 PM
 
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The deal with ultrasound and doppler is that they create heat, which then heats up the baby's cells. I've seen a video of fetal cell reproduction before and after ultrasound. The "after" part was quite drastic--the cells were dividing improperly and looked chaotic. Who knows if this can have subtle long-term effects or not.

Happily parenting our snuggly wild child since 2007 and her little brother since 2011!

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#17 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 12:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola
Hi there

I've read through all the previous posts, but I still can't see any concrete reason why people would think that there is anything wrong with u/s.

Please could someone spell it out for the hard of hearing

I believe that they are safe for a number of reasons. Firstly a gazillion people have them every year. If there really was something bad happening, wouldn't someone have noticed something by now? In this litigious society have there been any lawsuits brought against the makers of these machines?

This is SUCH a risk averse country, doctors are covering their behinds all the time, if there was a sniff of something awful happening, they would all stop immediately.

Long live Elvis

Peace and love

Nicola
For years and years it was routine to x-ray pregnant women. EVERYONE did it. It was FINE. The babies were fine. Wanna sign up for one?

-Angela
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#18 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 09:41 AM
 
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I've done some research on this and found it was common in the 1920's, but already then some alarm bells were ringing even though the practice was still used until the 1950's. There have been mistakes made throughout the whole of medical history but that doesn't mean that all progress is bad.

So your argument against u/s is that X-rays proved to be harmful so who knows what u/s's are doing to our babies? It is my opinion that this is a spurious argument. It's like saying thalidamine causes birth defects so I'm not going to take any of the anti-nausea medicine that is availible today for my hyperemesis gravidar.

There is such a system of checks and balances in todays medicine that I believe nothing like x-rays would ever happen again. Sometimes you have to have faith in progress.

Peace

Nicola
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#19 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 12:20 PM
 
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My mother had an x-ray in 1973 in a progressive teaching hospital in order to confirm her twin pregnancy. I also think that blindly thinking that the medical profession knows/behaves best is an extremely naive way to make decisions. Litigation does not always result in the best practices being used- malpractice often does not lead to the safest way of doing things-- just look at the c-section rate of over 50% in some hospitals.

Until testing has been done to determine whether or not these machines that heat cells cause damage, I will be skipping them. I don't judge people who have routine ultrasound screening (even if the reasons are silly- to know the sex? to bond with the baby?) but if someone asked my advice, I would implore them to limit the number that they get. and I am talking about routine screenings, not people who are trying to monitor high risk conditions.

There are other non-safety related issues .. un-needed ultrasounds cost the taxpayer and raise health insurance costs for everyone, for instance.

mama to Ingrid (11/06) and Louisa (5/29/09):
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#20 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna
For years and years it was routine to x-ray pregnant women. EVERYONE did it. It was FINE. The babies were fine. Wanna sign up for one?

-Angela
I'm with Nicola on this one. I don't think I'm going to change anything I'm doing just because someone that isn't even in this group came in a showed up with a bunch of dead links. I could give you the same number of links why it MAY be harmful for you to walk outside, or down the road. I understand that people are curious, I do. But I think that it's just a little wrong to tell people that have medical problems that it's never really needed. Maybe it is. Maybe it's the only thing saving that Mama's sanity. Who knows. I'm not a high risk pregnancy. But, I'm waiting for the day for my U/S. Knowing that it's coming is the only thing keeping me calm. As with my previous two, I'm not going to be able to rest until I can see it for myself.:
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#21 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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Weighing the Risks: What You Should Know about Ultrasound
By Sarah Buckley
Issue 102, September/October 2000
http://tinyurl.com/7xf45

I'm with Alegna. For my 2nd pregnancy 2 years ago, I did not do any ultrasound. I did not allow any dopler during prenatal visits with my midwife, but I did allow it during labor if she felt she needed it (I think she used it once.)

With my first baby 6 years ago, I think I had one "routine" ultrasound. I didn't know to question it.

Quote:
Reasons for Concern
Ultrasound waves are known to affect living tissues in at least two ways. First, the sonar beam heats the highlighted area by about 1°C (2°F). This is presumed to be insignificant, based on whole-body heating in pregnancy, which seems to be safe up to 2.5°C (5°F).21 The second effect is cavitation, where the small pockets of gas that exist within mammalian tissue vibrate and then collapse. In this situation "...temperatures of many thousands of degrees Celsius in the gas create a wide range of chemical products, some of which are potentially toxic."22 The significance of cavitation in human tissue is unknown.
My SIL said that when she had her baby 15 years ago, ultrasounds WERE NOT routine. They are now. :

If they weren't routine, then I'm not going to make it routine now (for me). I don't want to risk any potential damage (even if the risk is minimal). I don't have to.

I don't know what I would do if I had a high risk pg. I would probably opt to do the minimal # of u/s or none, depending on the situation. And then I wouldn't stress about it. Stress makes anything (pg or not) worse!

And... some women need the reassurance of an U/S and sign up as early as possible (then have a miscarriage). Maybe it's linked. I was always curious about that. Anyway, I'm not the type of person that needs to see the u/s for reassurance that the baby is "healthy" or to bond or anything.

I feel better NOT having it.

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#22 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 12:50 PM
 
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Yep, x-rays were around in the 70s. My MIL had one in 1974 for her twin pregnancy.

Even the professional OB organizations say that ultrasound should not be used without medical reason. Finding out the sex is not a medical reason. Taking a look is not a medical reason.

-Angela
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#23 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 12:56 PM
 
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Yikes Myranda! That's a little harsh on Angela. True, she isn't in this group, but a pp did request information. And, I apologize for saying "most" of the links were dead. Really, only about a third of them were. Sorry. I kind of skipped around, and like four in a row were dead, so I stopped looking.

It can't hurt to look at both sides of the issue. Read the information. Make an informed decision about the risks and benefits of the procedure for yourself.
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#24 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrandaDawn
I don't think I'm going to change anything I'm doing just because someone that isn't even in this group came in a showed up with a bunch of dead links.
I'm sorry, but I find that pretty disrespectful. The MDC community is very large. Anybody can post on any thread, and the people who are responding here, who are "not part of this group" are trying to be helpful. A question was asked, so more seasoned moms will respond. The MDC community is unique in that most of us will question everything, so you are getting something different here than in a mainstream board. You can agree or disagree with information, that's fine, but to say you will dismiss it because she isn't a part of the group is... unfortunate.

And... I always click on "New Posts" when I come to MDC and saw this thread and thought "oooooh! I have something to share on this topic!" So I did.


I had a painfree labor thanks to a HypnoBirthing class. I highly recommend it. My first baby was a hospital birth. My 2nd a home birth. So I like to share my experiences, and if someone posts a question on that topic, I'll respond. To not respond because I'm not part of "the group" is silly.

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#25 of 26 Old 06-18-2006, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrandaDawn
I'm with Nicola on this one. I don't think I'm going to change anything I'm doing just because someone that isn't even in this group came in a showed up with a bunch of dead links. I could give you the same number of links why it MAY be harmful for you to walk outside, or down the road. I understand that people are curious, I do. But I think that it's just a little wrong to tell people that have medical problems that it's never really needed. Maybe it is. Maybe it's the only thing saving that Mama's sanity. Who knows. I'm not a high risk pregnancy. But, I'm waiting for the day for my U/S. Knowing that it's coming is the only thing keeping me calm. As with my previous two, I'm not going to be able to rest until I can see it for myself.:
Come outside your DDC and have a look around MDC.

-Angela
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#26 of 26 Old 06-19-2006, 12:14 AM
 
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I completely understood the fact that someone, yes, did ask about it. And the only reason I personally answered to this was because I don't feel that anyone needs to be slammed with anything like, "For years and years it was routine to x-ray pregnant women. EVERYONE did it. It was FINE. The babies were fine. Wanna sign up for one?" Sarcarsm at this point seems a little rude. It's okay to give your opinion to something, but the second someone disagrees with it, let's just be teenagers again and start pulling hair. That'll get it solved. And sunshine, I did read the links. I'll read anything put in front of me. I'm really not here to argue with anyone. There's plenty of other things to do. But, just to be clear on this thing, the whole reason I'm even on this board is because different people know alot about different things on here. I just don't appreciate the sarcasm or the snide remarks when someone has a different opinion. And I don't find it safe for anybody to ignore medical conditions because someone else over the internet told them it'll be ok. Information and knowledge is one thing, it's a completely different thing to disregard everything that isn't yours.:
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