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Sleep deprived pregnant nursing mama, seeks advice...

805 views 6 replies 5 participants last post by  Crispie 
#1 ·
Cross posting in a couple areas...desperate for help...

How this applies here? I'm trying to wean...at least down to before bed and nap and then again when rising...or something of the likes. I have a nocturnal toddler who refuses to wean or sleep...please take a moment to view this post...I'm SO open to some advice mamas-treading on totally new ground...

My sleep is gone. His sleep is gone. Of the two of us, one doesn't seem to be affected at all. Sleep training is totally not working....let me enlighten you in hopes you can enlighten me to WTH I am doing wrong?


I'm 13 weeks pregnant. I have always co-slept with my children. My husband however draws the line with one in the bed. I'm really in agreement with him at the moment because our 18 month old is taking over our CalKing bed...and my boobs...and I'm sore and tired and done.

So here's my life right now:
We have hit sleep training very hard. And the backlash has been horrific. I have never in my life had such issues. I am not a proponent of the cry it out method, but I dare to say I'm nearing that end. Funny how you do something like sleep training in desperation to accomplish something like ...sleep... and you get totally the opposite. You reach an odd place of lost sanity. Lost to the point where you know it's lost, and don't seem to care. (this is where such posts come from)

To the point:
I made a nest on the floor near our bed. He is surrounded by the wall, the big bed and a desk, so it's akin to a little nest and not all of a sudden a wide open alone room. He is very close to us, so he can still hear all the same night time noises.

He is now in a cycle...sleeping in our bed is not comfortable for him, he is now used to his own space. He is unable (or unwilling) however to bed down in his own little nest. Last night he was walked rocked shushed and butt patted for an hour and a half. I'm grateful his dad stepped in for about 30 min. My sanity was shot to the point of violent thoughts. Those are kind of scary. (I should add they were thoughts, not ever actions-things that come into your head in moments of powerlessness and desperation...)

He wasn't screaming, but doing a soft little humming, and baby chatter to his sleepy bear. What I'd like to chalk up to self soothing except if I back away at all allowing him to hum or chatter himself to sleep...he sits up and starts crying. *sigh* There's no "self" about it-at all.

If I pull him into our bed (the "oh screw it, I just NEED some sleep") he paws at me, nurses with near violent aggression (he now has a full mouth of teeth that grate my nipples...which wouldn't be SO bad except that he kneads and pushes and pulls on my breasts, I cannot tell you the pain I am in this morning...I finally get so irritated and frustrated with it all that I tell him no, break his latch and make him roll over. Or I roll over. You an imagine the backlash I get for that, but I don't really care at this point. Which can't be totally true as it makes me sad and I am crying as I post this. (I have of course tried to get him to nurse gently but he doesn't-it's a very "his way or highway" situation-and mama's been opting highway lately)

He flips and rolls, kicks and grumps and makes all kinds of screechy irritated kid noises-unable to settle all the way down into sleep. So we both sleep walk back to his nest. When he finally does knock out-it's short lived. He wakes every 2-3 hours fussing and crying and searching for me. I can get him back to sleep without the breast but I have to go back to the floor by his nest and pat pat pat and tell him to lay down and go to sleep. It takes 20-30 minutes to get him back down and another very quiet sneaky 10 to make it back into my own bed, for a mere couple hours rest at best and then repeat the pattern...all night long. It's like he is stuck in this half slumber. It is very akin to having a newborn in the house again. Which I'm gearing up for yes, but not for this child! I certainly do not want to be up with "two" newborns in six months...I really can't handle it.

I'm not in a good place at the moment. I'm certainly not looking forward very eagerly right now, which makes me feel so sad to not be having happy thoughts about this upcoming baby. I've even had thoughts that maybe I should not nurse this new baby, which just breaks my heart...I know my family would just judge me which is why I'm here. Their answer is always his own room and crib and a bottle or paci (he'll take none of the above)

I'm wishing time would slow way the hell down so we can adjust. I'm not liking having to have this struggle with my sweet baby O, but know I cannot baby him forever and I am not superhuman. I must prepare for the near future as much as it makes me sad. I just wish I could be like an elephant and carry new baby for two years instead of only nine months. Mark those words, I doubt you'll hear them again


I'm going to try and find a book today, or a sleep advice place or something. Pregnancy hormones mixed with lack of sleep is not good. I'm irritable, irrational and frustrated. My whole house is awry from one little 25 pound sleep terrorist! I feel stupid that I can't get my kid to sleep. I feel stupid for having another one so soon. My house is thrashed and I've nothing to show for it. I'm totally at the end of my rope and I cannot believe I am about to do this all over. Any (please non judgmental) advice would be really appreciated for this sleep deprived (sore breasted) mama in a fragile state of mind these days. Thanks so much!
 
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#2 ·
I have been there. It is hard. You have my sympathy. I don't think this is all about nursing. How long has it been going on?

No one can make their child sleep. Or eat. Or various other things.

My first thought is that he is hungry - he wants to nurse, gets nothing, and that makes him mad. But probably doesn't have the verbal skills to tell you that.

What about other things - is he getting enough daily activity? Illness? Sensory issues?
 
#3 ·
Yeah, I think most of us have been through things like this at some point. 18 months is tricky because you just can't reason with them like you can with someone even 6 months older. Some moms I know who felt the baby was really hungry in the night, have kept snacks and water to offer in the night. Some have had success sleeping somewhere else and having dad take over night duties (doesn't work so well if mom is in the bed, 'cause then baby knows the breasts are there). One of my friends night weaned her kids (worked with all 3) by getting up with them in the night and taking them to the kitchen, putting the toddler into the high chair, turning on the lights and making them scrambled eggs and toast! She said each of her kids would give her this look which said, "Mom has gone crazy! This is not what I was looking for!" And after a few nights of this, the baby would be happy to have mom just pat his/her back, just to keep mom from getting up and starting that crazy routine again.

I'm wondering if it might work to have a mattress on the floor in a separate room, that you and the baby lay down to nurse and then you sneak away. Since you are looking to wean your child from your bed anyway--maybe the "nest" is just too near and yet too far away.

I decided to wean my 2nd daughter when pregnant with my 3rd because it was just becoming too uncomfortable for me. I think she was about 22 months old, but what I told her was that my breasts were "broken" and she accepted that. She was the only one of my kids who had a bottle regularly and I think it helped that she was still able to have the bottle of warm milk before bed.

I know what it feels like to feel like you will just go over the edge without a good night's sleep, and that when you're in the middle of it, you can't imagine it getting any better but it will. It might happen no matter what you do..our kids change so quickly.

Good luck.
Jeanne (mom of a 17, 14, 12 and 8 year old, who all sleep on their own all night these days)
 
#5 ·
I completely second the book recommendation. When I was pregnant with ds we often offered dd a half banana and a drink of water, it seemed to help with the munchies she had in the middle of the night. There seems to be a lot of frustration going on with your ds, do you sign with him? it maybe useful to even start, the other thing we did was draw faces on paper plates and dd could show us her feelings - the emoticons are great for ideas! Maybe you would be able to try explaining to your ds at a non-sleepy time (difficult to find at the moment!) what's going on, you'll lie down with him to nurse, maybe read a story and then he falls asleep, you'll be with him until he falls asleep, and then once he's asleep you'll let him be on his own, if he needs you again he just needs to call, you will come and give him a hug but no milk and he can go to sleep, night weaning is not an easy process, there are a lot of fears and maybe a little separation anxiety on his part he needs reassurance at the moment that you are there for him with your dh. Good luck it's not an easy process. Keep posting to let us know how you are getting on.
 
#6 ·
When we were night-weaning, the book I found the most helpful was Jay Gordon's "Good Nights". His night weaning ideas are also on-line at http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp. It took about a week for DD, a full month to night wean DS, so it definitely depends on the child's personality!

I've heard some mothers really like Elizabeth Pantley's books (No-Cry Sleep Solution). It didn't work for me, but it's more "gentle" than a lot of the sleep training ideas out there, and is also co-sleeping friendly.

I wonder if it might help to have a real bed for your DS. At least then when you're laying down with him, you have more space. I can't imagine his "nest" is very comfortable for a pregnant mama!

I also wonder if something is disturbing his sleep. Teething? Allergies? Getting an illness? Pinworms (icky, but we've had those and they definitely can affect sleep). It almost sounds like he's never really getting into a deep sleep. Might be worth exploring other reasons for night waking.
 
#7 ·
Update!

I'm happy to report that things are looking up! Other than teething issues last night we have been doing a little better.

What it boiled down to? Well a combo of things...food was a major one. Which nursing was in the way of. We've been working during the day to distract from such frequent nursings by offering food/drink. (and someone asked, yes we do sign a few things "eat" is one of them and "milk" for nursing is another) He has really gotten the message that he can get wonderfully full on food-and I think he's going to eat us out of house and home here shortly!


During the wake ups, I started offering him a sipper with plain water, and he chugs an ounce at a time. I'm not sure if it's habit, or perhaps the heater making him parched at night, but he's been taking a good drink, clutching his little bed time lovey and going right back down (Thank you Lord!)

He is still waking up every two to three hours and closer to morning it's every hour. I'm still unsure what that's about-but at least it's not 20-40 minutes before he goes back down. I kinda got relaxed the last few days again and pulled him into bed and nursed a couple times and it was a mistake. For one he didn't stay-he suckled for.ever. and when I finally said "all done" he went back to his bed and took a while to settle back down instead of drifting off in our bed. I broke my own rule (durh!) but in my defense I was just too tired a couple times to go back down to his nest and settle him in. So back to the "no nursing" until it's light in the room.

He was so cute last night as I explained it to him (dark=sleep and light=nurse/mama bed) sometime over the last day or so he learned to say "ok" in response, and was answering me with "ok" "ok" "ok" like I was talking to one of my teenagers. It made me giggle...

So in short-still working on staying asleep longer-my gut says stick with the routine and do not break it. I think he really needs the structure of a clear message, and even then it's going to take a bit.
 
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