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#1 of 16 Old 01-18-2012, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Please tell me you experience with upper lip ties. Did you get them clipped? Why/why not? If not, was your baby able to nurse? Did you do therapy or somethign else to help baby nurse? If you did get it clipped, did it help your baby nurse? Did you just have lip clippled or tongue too?

 

I just want to hear some stories...trying to bring my DH around. We confirmed an upper lip tie with an ENT today, I'm not sure about a posterior tongue tie (dr said no, but, I want to get another opinion on it). DH did not want to clip since the ENT could not garuntee it would improve breastfeeding...so I'm wondering if anyone had their baby's clipped and it did help or if you chose not to how you managed nursing. My little one is still removing little to no milk from my breasts and has no suction (according to the LC - she does click constantly and cannot seem to keep the breast in her mouth)...the lack of suction lead the ENT to believe that the clip ould "possibly" help DD nurse effectivly...or at least better.

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#2 of 16 Old 01-18-2012, 04:58 PM
 
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How old is your baby? If your lo is having breastfeeding difficulties then, as you probably already know, your supply may suffer along with the baby not gaining well. I would definitely have the lip clipped and get your second opinion on the posterior tongue tie. I had my dd's lip and tongue tie fixed just before thanksgiving. Our situation was a bit different than yours, however. It turns out that oversupply was our main issue - dd did "click" a lot and was very gassy but resolving the tongue and lip did not fix the problem. But it doesn't sound like that could be your issue.

One thing that I will say after having dd's procedure (it was done with a laser - I don't know how much this compares to a regular "clipping") the worst part was the fact that I had to "massage" the wounds 3-4x daily for 10-14 days. What this meant was that I had to basically pull the wound apart and massage it which caused a good deal of pain/discomfort for my baby (she was 5 weeks old when we did it). I felt horrible about this and didn't know about it before we did the procedure. And, since it didn't end up resolving our issues I feel even worse about it now. But, if my baby was not able to nurse affectively and thus risked affecting my milk supply and possibly requiring having to supplement with formula I would do it again without hesitation.

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#3 of 16 Old 01-18-2012, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My baby is 5 weeks old. The first time we saw a LC she thought the issues came from oversupply and I did have oversupply but it dropped really quick..its ok again since I started pumping a lot and takign domperidone but not where it was. Also she isn't gaing well, she was 8lbs 4oz on Friday (exactly 5 weeks old) and was 8lbs 10oz when she was born..however she has gained from 7lbs 15oz (exactly 2 weeks old). Right now I'm pumping and giving her bottles of EBM after feeding because with sever before/after feed weighs she only took in about 1/2 an ounce. She was always rooting around and acting hungry until I started the bottles which is also when she picked up on her diapers. I really don't think I can maintain supply long term - not to mention I can't stand pumping or bottle feeding and I lvoe breastfeeding and so does my little girl! And of course it is really painful to nurse her...but I could deal with that if she was at least gaining weight.

 

I did not know about the after care though, that is good to keep in mind...I will still probably pursue it; but, better to have an idea what to expect.

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#4 of 16 Old 01-18-2012, 07:05 PM
 
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I had it clipped along with my baby's tongue tie. It's hard to say which tie was the bigger problem. He also had a high arched palate that took a while to grow into, but it eventually worked out. We did see a cranial-sacrl therapist after the procedure, which I thought was useful.  My supply is still touchy though, so I def. recommend keeping up with dom and pumping.  I'd do it all again though.  I found this blog after we'd gone through our ordeal: http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/03/introducing-maxillary-labial-frenulum.html O, and this one: http://daisieyandbuggy.com/2011/07/29/2-dreaded-words-lip-tie/


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#5 of 16 Old 01-18-2012, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The WIC councilor and I also think my DD has a high pallet (not really high and arched like some, but, morethan average) from whatevr I heard that really is just a matter of growning though - of course it is harder to grow if you aren't eating!

 

On top of whatever else is going on all my little ones have really small mouths so I guess that makes anything going on with lips/tongues/latch a little worse. My boys always gained fine (they were small until around 2-3 years old but stayed on their own curves and did gain concistantly) but I did have 6 months of severe pain with DS1 (then it just stopped...I can't think of anything except that maybe he got big enough) so I do think things will (hopefully) get better as she grows...I just need her to gain weight for one, and for two I am realy scared of losing supply before she is nursing well enough to help stimulate my breasts. On another note at least I don't have to worry about my supply dropping when I go back to work since I am already maintaining it by pumping nothing will change there!

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#6 of 16 Old 01-19-2012, 05:37 AM
 
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My DS had his really thick, tight upper lip tie clipped at 8 weeks. It really helped with breastfeeding. He began to nurse for longer, and gain more weight at a faster rate. I didn't realize he was tongue-tied or I would have got that clipped at the same time.

 

FWIW, my nipples really appreciated the lip-tie clipping too. Nursing became much less 'stingy' and much nicer!

 

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#7 of 16 Old 01-19-2012, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm glad it helped some of you...that makes me feel more comfortable with doing it and hopefully my hubby might read some of this too. We saw our pediatrician today and he thinks she may have a posterior tongue tie also just based on her dificulty sucking (after he looked in her mouth a week ago and said she didn't have one LOL - this week he said posterior ties are diagnosed based off sucking behavior). He believes clipping the lip well help her nurse but he also believes clipping the tongue will help. He suggested we wait a week (because she is jsut finishing up a thrush treatment and he wants to make sure that is not the cause of anything) and then if she still has problems get both clipped. We have an appointment in a week to see an ENT who's name has come up several times in regards to poterior ties and we will see what he thinks... I don't think we are going to have the ENT who diagnosed the lip tie clip...or at least not without getting a second opinion - I'd prefer to do both at once if both need done...the more I think about it I think that would be less tramatic (plus this other ENT uses laser surgery instead of scissors).

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#8 of 16 Old 01-19-2012, 11:58 AM
 
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This sounds like a great plan! My ds was clipped the first time around your baby's age.  I'll be honest and say that it didn't help immediately. It took a while for his sucking to be coordinated, but mostly, that high arch really caused us problems. I continued pumping and bottle-feeding (and nursing when I could, but he wasn't transferring well still) until he was 12 wks. During that time we did CST.  At 12 weeks he went to mostly breastfeeding, but I still had to supplement. At first, he took about 10 oz (formula or bm) and down to 2 oz.  I still felt that his tongue was somewhat restricted, so we went back at 6 mths and had it revised.  The difference was REALLY noticeable at that point. He'd never pointed his tongue, it was always somewhat rounded or squared, even after the first clip.  From then, he nursed exclusively. I have to say, though, that my supply is still touch and go, meaning sufficient, but not a drop more.  It was a relief when he started eaten solids. We also went with a doctor (pediatric dentist) who used laser, btw.

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Originally Posted by LilMomma83 View Post

I'm glad it helped some of you...that makes me feel more comfortable with doing it and hopefully my hubby might read some of this too. We saw our pediatrician today and he thinks she may have a posterior tongue tie also just based on her dificulty sucking (after he looked in her mouth a week ago and said she didn't have one LOL - this week he said posterior ties are diagnosed based off sucking behavior). He believes clipping the lip well help her nurse but he also believes clipping the tongue will help. He suggested we wait a week (because she is jsut finishing up a thrush treatment and he wants to make sure that is not the cause of anything) and then if she still has problems get both clipped. We have an appointment in a week to see an ENT who's name has come up several times in regards to poterior ties and we will see what he thinks... I don't think we are going to have the ENT who diagnosed the lip tie clip...or at least not without getting a second opinion - I'd prefer to do both at once if both need done...the more I think about it I think that would be less tramatic (plus this other ENT uses laser surgery instead of scissors).



 


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#9 of 16 Old 01-19-2012, 12:28 PM
 
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Clip!

 

I had my ds1 clipped at 8 months and again at 9mos.  All of our issues vanished practically overnight.

 

Ds had an upper lip tie but it didn't interfere with nursing.  I just had to make sure to flange his lips at every latch.  When he was 2 or 3yo he face-planted off his skateboard and the tie was broken.  Even now at 17yo I can still see how the flaps used to be stuck together, very weird!

 

FWIW, I had his lingual frenulum clipped by and old fee-for-service country doc who used scissors, and for pain relief, rx'ed immediate nursing.  He was literally the only one in the county who still cipped tongue ties in-office.  He's since retired, so I have no idea what mamas do nowadays.


Bring back the old MDC
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#10 of 16 Old 01-20-2012, 06:54 AM
 
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I absolutely 100% think every baby with a TT should be clipped. My only regret is that DS1 wasn't clipped enough.
But I'm of two minds about lip ties. On the one hand, some moms do report improvements when they're clipped and dentists say they can cause problems in the future so why not? But on the other hand, the idea that "fish lips" are desirable in a latch has been replaced with the view that babies suck better with the upper lip in a neutral position and clipping can be more difficult with an older baby and expensive.
I like this link for ideas about improving sucking: http://www.ibclc.qc.ca/GC2010_helping_infants_suck_correctly_CWG.pdf

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#11 of 16 Old 01-20-2012, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan73 View Post

I absolutely 100% think every baby with a TT should be clipped. My only regret is that DS1 wasn't clipped enough.
But I'm of two minds about lip ties. On the one hand, some moms do report improvements when they're clipped and dentists say they can cause problems in the future so why not? But on the other hand, the idea that "fish lips" are desirable in a latch has been replaced with the view that babies suck better with the upper lip in a neutral position and clipping can be more difficult with an older baby and expensive.
I like this link for ideas about improving sucking: http://www.ibclc.qc.ca/GC2010_helping_infants_suck_correctly_CWG.pdf



Wow that link is awesome Megan! We has an assessment with a speech pathologist (to do suck therapy if she feels DD will benefit from it) on Thursday. Some of those ideas I can use now though. Thanks!

 

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#12 of 16 Old 01-20-2012, 01:10 PM
 
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I'm glad it's helpful. Pretty interesting stuff.

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#13 of 16 Old 01-20-2012, 05:01 PM
 
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My DD has an upper lip tie I think degree 4 or whatever the most restrictive is called. I ended up discovering it and diagnosing it it since my midwife, pediatrician, nor the LC I saw knew what it was. When I finally went to a new pediatrician who recognized it she said she would not refer me to a ENT because it didn't matter if nursing hurt or not. She was really helpful duh.gif Anyway, we never got it clipped but I had severe pain when nursing until she was a good 4 months old. Even today her latch is very shallow no matter what I've tried and her upper teeth are right on the nipple. I think your baby will be fine if you can get them to have a deep latch but my DD was stubborn and her upper lip would not move out at all until recently. I still nurse her but with being pregnant and her shallow latch my supply is super low. If I did it over again I would have kept searching until someone would clip it for me. I think it would have helped greatly in the early days/months. Good luck!


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#14 of 16 Old 01-20-2012, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emelee View Post

My DD has an upper lip tie I think degree 4 or whatever the most restrictive is called. I ended up discovering it and diagnosing it it since my midwife, pediatrician, nor the LC I saw knew what it was. When I finally went to a new pediatrician who recognized it she said she would not refer me to a ENT because it didn't matter if nursing hurt or not. She was really helpful duh.gif Anyway, we never got it clipped but I had severe pain when nursing until she was a good 4 months old. Even today her latch is very shallow no matter what I've tried and her upper teeth are right on the nipple. I think your baby will be fine if you can get them to have a deep latch but my DD was stubborn and her upper lip would not move out at all until recently. I still nurse her but with being pregnant and her shallow latch my supply is super low. If I did it over again I would have kept searching until someone would clip it for me. I think it would have helped greatly in the early days/months. Good luck!



My DD has a pretty small mouth in general...so I think that is complicating everything too... I need to look at DS1's mouth now lol he gained steady (though slow) but I was in pain for the first 6mos with him and I had all sorts of docs/specialists look at my nipples - but never thought to have someone look at him. I'm really interested to find out if she has the PTT too.

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#15 of 16 Old 04-01-2012, 11:02 PM
 
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As a family Dentist, I frequently see the problems associated with infants having lip and tongue ties. This creates several problems from failure to latch on properly for breastfeeding,  as well as proper growth and development of the oral structures. Much air can also be a consequence of lip and tongue ties as a good seal is not established, leading to colic. These problems are quickly and easily corrected with a laser procedures that remove the tissue bans without bleeding, or sutures.   Immediate results are noticed by the infant and mother in improvement in nursing.  If left uncorrected, breastfeeding frustrations, as well and proper growth of the palate and dental development will be impeded . Please feel free to contact me if further information is requested.  www.dr-annette.com

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#16 of 16 Old 04-02-2012, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Updating since this thread has resurfaced...

 

We did opt to revise the lip tie, nursing got worse for a week, but then it got better again. DD has a much wider latch, though she still can't stay latched on and swallows lots of air (clicks really badly - and if you watch her carefuly you can see her let go with the corners of her mouth every suck, and every minute or so let go entirely). My suspician is that the bigger issue is that her tongue frenulum is still too tight - considering going back to have that redone. It was certainly worth doing the lip tie though because of her wider latch, and she no longer gets a painful looking line on her lip. She did get swollen and bleed - maybe because we had to go to an ENT which used scissors, but, he did an awesome job and she nursed right afterwards and was no logner bleeding after that. :-)

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