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#31 of 54 Old 08-29-2006, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, no real news.

My rented hospital grade pump does nothing for me, so I bought a second single electric pump like the one I have (Avent Isis Uno) and that seems to work OK. I broke the 12 oz barrier yesterday.

An attempt to use a SNS failed miserably. I think I need to wait a few days before trying that again.

Still no trying to latch or anything. I think we've got another tooth almost here too, which isn't helping anything.

He does seem to believe the nipple is there for biting now. I have no idea how to deal with that without pushing him further away from the breast.

I'm beginning to accept that it might be over. I'm going to try to pump enough to get him through the next few months, but I'd love to get him back to the breast.
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#32 of 54 Old 08-29-2006, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It was very quick and an accident, but he was on the boob for a second there!!!

I was giving him a bottle while the tv was on. He turned to look, leaving the bottle, for a moment. I dripped a bit of milk onto the breast and when he truned back he took my nipple for just a second. He even sucked a little before spitting it out with the look on his face. I didn't make a huge deal and just gave him the bottle back.

It's a start though, right?
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#33 of 54 Old 08-29-2006, 10:18 PM
 
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You bet, Mama...don't give up hope yet! I am crying with you on this. I hope he comes back to the breast soon.
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#34 of 54 Old 08-30-2006, 09:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisco
He even sucked a little before spitting it out with the look on his face.
These babies are SO smart!
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#35 of 54 Old 08-30-2006, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisco
It was very quick and an accident, but he was on the boob for a second there!!!

I was giving him a bottle while the tv was on. He turned to look, leaving the bottle, for a moment. I dripped a bit of milk onto the breast and when he truned back he took my nipple for just a second. He even sucked a little before spitting it out with the look on his face. I didn't make a huge deal and just gave him the bottle back.

It's a start though, right?
It sounds like progress to me! hang in there, I know it's really hard to remain positive all the time, and for me it was a lot of ups and downs emotionally, but it sounds like your little one is getting closer to getting back to the breast. Best wishes to you!
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#36 of 54 Old 09-01-2006, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm feeling really down about this.

I can't seem to get my supply up. 11 oz a day seems to be about it. I know that's not terrible, but given that he's not nursing, it isn't enough. He's still definitely not nursing, nowhere close, despite that one latch. I've tried fenugreek, and now milk maid tea (what I could find here inthe UK), eating oatmeal 2 meals a day now, increasing my water intake and I'm double pumping as often as I can.

We're co-sleeping part of the night again (he goes down at 7 in his own bed, then we ove him when we go to bed or he wakes up on his own). He's desparate for some milk in the night, but the 5 1/2 oz max I can get through the evening isn't enough, so we get screaming for ages every night. We finally gave him his breakfast at 5 am yesterday. He normally has it at 7:30. He won't take the breast even in his sleep.

We're spending a lot of time together topless, bathing together most evenings, and everything else I can think of.

I feel like my breasts are very full often now, but the output isn't increasing. I just want him nursing again and I'm beginning to think it really won't happen.

To add to the fun, I finally got a health visitor to agree that there is something wrong with the fact he can't stick his tongue out. She claims it's not tongue tie b/c he can move it back and to the sides a bit, but it isn't normal. I'm thinking this is what caused latch problems repeatedly and made BFing harder for him, making him even less likely to come back to it. I'm angry, b/c I brought it up twice before and my concerns were dismissed. And I'm angry at myself for not pushing it more when he was younger. Maybe I wouldn't even be facing this then.

Off to pump, since he's napping.
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#37 of 54 Old 09-01-2006, 12:55 PM
 
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Brisco, I am really sorry things are not working out. My DD started refusing the breast at 4 months old and I could never get her back. I am still heartbroken over it. I hope things turn out differently for you.

As for pumping, it sounds like your breasts aren't emptying. If they aren't emptying, your supply will not increase and could continue to decrease. Have you tried anything like warm compresses and breast compression/massaging while pumping? Also, if your supply is down, a hospital grade pump should be your best bet. You mentioned that it didn't work. What pump did you rent? Women respond differently to different pumps. Maybe you should try a different hospital pump. The Symphony and the Lactina are two good ones.
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#38 of 54 Old 09-01-2006, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm pumping for about 3 minutes after the last of the milk comes out. Acutally, with double pumping, that's 3 minutes after righty and even longer after lefty. I'm using massage and compression too.

I've spent most of today feeling full, but only the feeling in the breast. I don't feel that full to touch the outside of the breast and I'm not getting much out. Less than yesterday even. I'm not sure if I explained that feeling full well, but I'm not sure how else to explain it.

I tried the symphony. I think the problem with it is that I had kinda gotten used to the Avent manual pump and then the Avent IQ, both of which allow you to control the timing and not just the suction. The timing on the Symphony just doesn't seem to suit me. My sister loves it though, so I know it's a good pump.

I'm going to go hunt down some smaller nursing shields. After lots of hunting for info, I think maybe I need a smaller size than the ones I have. If I can make them work, maybe I can trick him into latching on with the shields sometime.

I think maybe my supply is up, I just can't get it out. I have regained the ability to squirt a distance. I tried squirting into DS's mouth, but he cried and turned away.
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#39 of 54 Old 09-02-2006, 10:52 PM
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Brisco, I'm sorry that things haven't resolved yet. It can be so frustrating!

I got some suggestions from my LLL leader when my dd was on a strike, and although I didn't really tried them (the strike resolved on its own the night when I got the suggestions), I thought I would share them with you as they were unusual, I thought, so here you go:

heard about "spinning" somewhere, and suggested it to the mom of a post-one-year-old whose child was on strike. Here's what she did:

She stood up, holding her child in a nursing position with breast bared, and spun - as fast as she could - in one direction. Then she spun as fast as she could in the opposite direction. The baby latched and never looked back.

I learned later that that's not how spinning is generally done. The mom is seated in an office chair, and someone turns it gently for her until she is mildly dizzy (and presumably so is the baby). Oh well. It worked. A friend said later they use a version of spinning with their child who has some neurological problems. As I understand it, the disorientation takes the child back down to baseline - to unknowing sucking, or whatever. The thinking part concentrates on the disorientation, and instincts and reflexes have a chance to assert themselves.


And here a story and technique, also from an LLL leader:

When my son, Scott, was 13 months old, he developed a cold that thoroughly plugged his nose. Nursing was difficult for him, and on the second day, he quit “cold turkey.â€Â I was by no means ready to have our happy nursing relationship stop so soon, but Scott continued to refuse my breast, even after his nose had cleared. He would play with the nipple, would even laugh and point when I asked, “Where’s the milk?â€, but would cry and turn away if I brought my nipple close to his mouth. I imagine he was remembering the suffocating feeling of being unable to breathe and nurse properly.

As the week wore on, I did my best to express milk several times a day, but never succeeded in getting my milk to let down, and I could tell that my supply was dwindling daily. At my La Leche League Leader’s suggestion, I tried to get him to nurse in his sleep. No luck.

Finally, in desperation after 6 days without his showing any desire to nurse, I let him fall asleep in my arms, tilted his head back a bit, and squirted milk into his open mouth. He would either swallow, I decided, or drown! Scott swallowed, opened his eyes briefly, turned toward me, and began nursing as if he had never stopped. I had to use the same “skullduggery†one more time, then our nursing relationship picked right up where it had left off.

Scott is 17 months old now, nursing often and contentedly. If I had any guilt feelings about “making†my son continue to nurse, they vanished the first time he came to me crying over some frustration or hurt, and left my lap a happier little boy.

There was one side benefit to our week’s hiatus. While he was refusing to nurse, Scott would let me rock him to sleep, something he had never done before, and was more cuddly than usual. I was surprised at the amount of closeness we had, even without the nursing. Now I know for sure that there is life after nursing! When Scott no longer wants to nurse, I know I’ll still share warm, loving moments with him.


I hope this helps Brisco, and I send you good vibes, and best wishes, hang in there!
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#40 of 54 Old 09-05-2006, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I tried spinning, standing up as our office chair now lives at the dump. It was funny for him, but didn't work. I might try again in a chair or something when he's feeling better. He's been feverish off and on.

I can't get him to sleep in my arms. We're gonna try properly co-sleeping again now that he's not waking screaming for hours every night (I think he got dehydrated and headachey). We're going to put our mattress on the floor so we're not so freaked out about him crawling off the edge. Maybe then I can try feeding him while he's asleep.

I gave in and bought some formula Saturday. We honestly hadnt realised how little he was drinking each day and how much he had incfreased his solids. It obviously wasnt working for him. He hd been waking screaming often in the night and was starving by 4 am. Now with the formula he's sleeping better (not through the night, but he never did), much less fussy during the day and even with a fever he's happier. My poor baby.
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#41 of 54 Old 09-05-2006, 01:44 PM
 
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Im sorry, Brisco. Mine quit nursing completely at the end of her 3rd month. (she never nursed well) I have been EPing since. You are trying so hard. I feel for you. You are doing your best. Pumping doesn't seem to be going so great for you. I am sorry. If you feel you aren't emptying, you will loose your supply. Sometimes I have pump resistance. What works for me is a super hot shower, and then hand expressing. It is time consuming, and I have carpel tunnel so it hurts my hands, but it gets my breasts mostly emptied. Try to hand express a few times a day after pumping so that you don't loose your supply. Check out the EPers tribe for some great tips on pumping. Pumping is still an option, if you can't get him back to the breast. I am so sorry.
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#42 of 54 Old 09-06-2006, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you.

I think I'm getting fairly empty. It's just so hard finding the time to pump with an extremely active 9 mo old getting into everything.
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#43 of 54 Old 09-06-2006, 11:27 AM
 
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ds went on a nursing strike at about 3 mos or so and we were helped by getting ds adjusted by a chiro and offering the breast when ds was sleepy.

s.... don't give up s
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#44 of 54 Old 09-07-2006, 09:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by coobabysmom
ds went on a nursing strike at about 3 mos or so and we were helped by getting ds adjusted by a chiro
That's an interesting idea!
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#45 of 54 Old 09-10-2006, 12:11 PM
 
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Checking in for an update...
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#46 of 54 Old 09-10-2006, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We're still getting nowhere. He's been sick all week with a fever and total grumpiness. The doc says virus.

We've finally got things sorted out to cosleep again. I'm hoping that helps.

He definitely prefers EBM to formula, but I'm still not pumping enough to give him just EBM. Lack of sleep this week hasn't helped my supply at all.

Thanks for asking.
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#47 of 54 Old 09-10-2006, 10:22 PM
 
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Sure! Get well soon!

Do you feel like co-sleeping gives you the feeling of closeness with him that you don't get through bfing now?
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#48 of 54 Old 09-12-2006, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, so far it's just giving me a tiny bit more sleep. We're both still adjusting to sleeping next to each other again. We're both movers in our sleep.

He's decided nighttime is for milk/formula and daytime is really for solids now. So he's waking about 4-5 times a night (on a good night) for a little feed. That's easy enough with nursing, but a total pain with formula. I can't really just leave it sitting around all night, and I can't give him a couple of ounces here and there from a single bottle. I'm just too worried about it. So we end up with a couple of trips down to the kitchen every night now too.

I'm going to try and get some more sleep over the next few days, getting to bed earlier, and then try to sneak up on him and see if he'll nurse in his sleep once he's more settled in our bed.
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#49 of 54 Old 09-12-2006, 04:29 PM
 
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I'm sorry this has been so difficult... I hope things eventually turn around for you!
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#50 of 54 Old 09-13-2006, 11:57 PM
 
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I would absolutely positively take him to a chiropractor! Find a gentle one who works with kids and likes kids, and just see what happens. Whenever someone talks about their baby rejecting a certain way of being held, and of rejecting plain old being held, along with not wanting to nurse, I think "upper cervical vertebral subluxation!!!"

Yeah, I'm chiro, though a retired one.

Take him in, seriously. I think you wrote that you're in the UK, so you might have good luck with a traditional osteopath (I note the difference b/c osteopaths in the states are basically MDs who maybe learned a little manipulation, while the ones outside the states still practice as osteopaths, and so they might be a better choice than a chiro when you're overseas, but a chiro is the best bet while in the States) over a chiro.

Also, find someone (might even be the same person!) who does Cranio Sacral Therapy. In the States it might be a chiro, though the person that did it on DS (his first bodywork) was a massage therapist with extra training. It is absolutely AMAZING work. I watched his head change shape over that day, his latch got better over the course of that day, and a borderline molly-diagnosed tongue tie disappeared over a short amount of time.


So do those two things, please, before giving up, OK? If it works, you will be so happy you tried. If it doesn't work, well, I'm philosophical about it so I know that he'll be better off anyway, but honestly, I'd bet on it working.

Good luck!!!!!!
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#51 of 54 Old 09-14-2006, 12:01 AM
 
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It also might be interesting to see a homeopath (lucky woman, in the UK where they abound) or get a really good homeopathy book, and see if his set of symptoms match anything. So, rather than the "shotgun effect" (blast away and see what happens) of the Hyland's, you might hone in on one remedy that could help whatever is ailing him.
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#52 of 54 Old 09-14-2006, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the ideas. I'll try looking into those.

It's been about a month now, so I'm not sure anything would help. I would love to get him back on the breast though, especially in the middle of the night.
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#53 of 54 Old 09-14-2006, 09:11 AM
 
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taking him to a chiro definitely could help.
my daughter never went on a strike, but she did seem to have trouble nursing a couple of times. but after her adjustments, she always nursed better. once she nursed for 20 minutes before we even left his office!

adjustments can help with so many things. my dd is almost 3 years old and has been getting adjusted since she was 2 days old.
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#54 of 54 Old 09-14-2006, 10:07 AM
 
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http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/...to-breast.html
http://breast-pumps.com/induced_lact...relactatio.htm

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
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