Supplementing: Goat's milk vs. Formula - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 17 Old 10-15-2006, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hopefully, all who can breastfeed find the support they need to do so and to do so exclusively. I had problems that resulted in supplementing. I suspect others here found themselves in similar circumstances. A poster suggested starting a new thread rather than hijack another -- so here goes?

Is raw goat's milk really a better alternative than formula if breastmilk or donor milk are not available?

I need convinced. I am pretty good at reading the literature and I have yet to find anything reputable that suggests raw goat's milk is a better alternative for supplementation than formula for an infant. Dr. Sears even endorses formula over goat's milk.

But I have an open mind. If someone can point to good research -- I'll listen.
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#2 of 17 Old 10-15-2006, 05:25 PM
 
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From what I have read, formula is a better substitute over plain old raw goat's milk. There are things missing in goat's milk or cow milk alone. If goat's milk is used, it will need to be supplemented with other nutrients just like cows milk is. I'm sure you have read the same literature out there that I have. I once did find a really good goat's milk formula that is made in the USA and thought I had put it in favorites. I didn't though and can't find it. I f anyone knows what it is, I would like to hear about it. Goat milk formula would be more compatible to human milk compared to cow milk formula. I am talking about supplemented formula and not plain milk. That would be a disaster. I did find some goat milk formulas out of the US, but it is costly - $45 for just 400 grams. That is with shipping, etc.. I have also read some bad things about formula such as recalls, etc... You can find info about that in Dr. Jack Newman's book "The Ultimate Book of Breastfeeding Answers".

I'm sorry that you are supplementing. I am in the same mess with my twins and it just heartbreaking to me. They are stuck on the SNS and it killed my supply. They just won't nurse without the tube. I have cried buckets over this.

Best of everything to you.

P.S. To find the info that you are trying to find about raw goat's milk, go to: http://www.mercola.com/2000/oct/22/infant_formula.htm
Also, http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html
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#3 of 17 Old 10-15-2006, 05:56 PM
 
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I also heard about the goat milk formula from someone but unfortunately do not have a name or link. it did come from overseas, i'm pretty sure.

Fwiw, I'd much rather be giving goat's milk that might have added iron or whatever that is missing than formula.

Good luck
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#4 of 17 Old 10-15-2006, 06:00 PM
 
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Have you seen this?

http://www.dgc.co.nz/main.cfm
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#5 of 17 Old 10-15-2006, 06:59 PM
 
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Yes. I contacted this company, but unfortunately they do not sell to the US. The same goes for Nanny Goat from England. The only goat milk formula you can buy in the US is from Australia. It is expensive though - $45 for 100 grams. Yikes!
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#6 of 17 Old 10-15-2006, 07:29 PM
 
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Any powdered milk is highly processed(spray dried at temps of 400 degrees F) and bad for you. You might be thinking of the Dr. Sears goat milk formula where he advocates using Meyenburg evap or powdered milk along with brown rice syrup and water. I would never even use the "fresh" Meyenburg milk since they UHT and pasteurize.
Honestly, your best/healthiest bet would be using one of the WAP formulas if you cannot get donor breast milk(www.milkshare.org): http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html

You may be able to get raw cow or goat milk in your area(try www.realmilk.com), if not a lot of HFS have unhomogenized low temp pasteurized goat or cow milk or kefir you could use to make the formula, that would at least still be way better than the canned powdered indigestible milk and syrup. Good luck!

ETA: since you're looking for more info, read the children's site of www.westonaprice.org -- Sally Fallon talks about all the reasoning for the ingredients etc.
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#7 of 17 Old 10-15-2006, 10:25 PM
 
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Thanks for the info. Is that what you are using? If so, how have the babies done with this?
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#8 of 17 Old 10-18-2006, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info -- but this link from Kellymom gives me the answers I was looking for.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mi...ents.html#goat
Quote:
Using goat's milk before 6 months or regular use between 6 and 12 months is not recommended. Goat's milk is no more appropriate to give baby than cow's milk. If you need to supplement and breastmilk is not available, formulas are a more nutritionally complete product. There are several comparisons of goat vs. cow vs. human milk in the links below. Using this information, goat milk is much closer in composition to cow milk than human milk. Goat's milk is high in sodium (like cow's milk) and is very high in chloride and potassium, which makes the renal solute load too high for babies. This can cause gastrointestinal bleeding and can result in anemia and poor growth (these problems are usually undetected until months later). Goat milk is also deficient in folic acid, which can lead to megaloblastic anemia. Also, infants who are allergic to cow's milk protein are often allergic to goat's milk too.
While it's true that whole goats milk (and whole cow's milk) was commonly used prior to the advent of infant formulas it is also true that the infant mortality and morbidity rate during the times of such substitutions was very high.
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#9 of 17 Old 10-18-2006, 01:29 PM
 
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Just found this thread. Nak.

There is more complete info out there. Noone said goat milk was a sub for bm by itself, it needs to be doctored-folic acid, B vites in general, fats etc- need to be added.

The allergy info is true. But the choice between processed formula and live food is still a no brainer to me. Also, processed milk is lacking in lactase which is present in the raw and will facilitate digestion.

Do you think potassium and chloride are removed in the making of formula? Hmmm.

The use of both cow and goat milk can result in intestinal bleeding, and not just because of the folic acid levels. It's much more likely to happen when it's been pasteurized.

Not trying to change your mind, just let you know that there is more than what the popular info has to say. I researched this to death and am very happy with what I did. To each his own. If you are in the position and willing to do the legwork you will do what you find is best.
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#10 of 17 Old 10-18-2006, 01:31 PM
 
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Oh-and Dr. Sears has never been my "go to" guy. I have issues with many things he recommends and endorses. But again, that's just me.
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#11 of 17 Old 10-19-2006, 03:22 PM
 
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I dont know if this is helpful but when my firend's daughter was born she wouldnt nurse. She hand crushed nuts and made her nut milk. I dont know to much about this, maybe you can research it as another option.
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#12 of 17 Old 10-19-2006, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. Hoepfully whenever baby no 2 comes along I'll be able to EBF, but if I should need to supplement I will go with formula. I appreciate all of the information but the evidence seems conclusive to me that formula is a better choice nutritionally if supplementation is necessary. Again -- fingers crossed -- it won't come to that.
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#13 of 17 Old 10-21-2006, 10:16 PM
 
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Formula is best- you can now easily find 100% lactose, organic formula at walmart (the parent's choice brand- NOT similac, that brand is awful). It's too bad we can't get goat milk based formula, but oh well.

It is NOT safe to make your own formula, not with goat or cow milk. Yes, you can add things to the milk.. but you cannot *TAKE THEM OUT*. Read the kellymom site.

Nut milk is just about the worst idea I've ever heard. They are so allergenic, I can't imagine ever doing that to a baby. That's far, far different than even formula, much less breastmilk. Do people really hate formula that much? I guess when people think drying milk constitutes some sort of major terrible issue (it isn't), that could be true. Just because something is processed, does not mean it is worse. It really depends on the conditions. Yes, "live" milk has other things in it- other things MEANT FOR COWS, NOT PEOPLE. Also tasty treats like e. coli. I'd never subject my baby to that. At least formula is tested and has controls in place, even if they are not perfect.
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#14 of 17 Old 10-21-2006, 11:32 PM
 
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There is alot of research that totally contradicts what you are saying. However, you are entitled to your opinion. Feel free to give your baby formula-it's your right.
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#15 of 17 Old 10-22-2006, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenny-g View Post
Formula is best- you can now easily find 100% lactose, organic formula at walmart (the parent's choice brand- NOT similac, that brand is awful). It's too bad we can't get goat milk based formula, but oh well.

It is NOT safe to make your own formula, not with goat or cow milk. Yes, you can add things to the milk.. but you cannot *TAKE THEM OUT*. Read the kellymom site.

Nut milk is just about the worst idea I've ever heard. They are so allergenic, I can't imagine ever doing that to a baby. That's far, far different than even formula, much less breastmilk. Do people really hate formula that much? I guess when people think drying milk constitutes some sort of major terrible issue (it isn't), that could be true. Just because something is processed, does not mean it is worse. It really depends on the conditions. Yes, "live" milk has other things in it- other things MEANT FOR COWS, NOT PEOPLE. Also tasty treats like e. coli. I'd never subject my baby to that. At least formula is tested and has controls in place, even if they are not perfect.
Thanks -- this is exactly what I have found as well -- I just can't seem to find the research others are referring too. Yes, I can find a web site here ore there spouting the benefits of goat's milk -- but no legitmate research about its safety or nutrional value for infants.
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#16 of 17 Old 10-22-2006, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
There is alot of research that totally contradicts what you are saying. However, you are entitled to your opinion. Feel free to give your baby formula-it's your right.
So where is this research?
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#17 of 17 Old 10-22-2006, 05:56 PM
 
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When I did this it was 4 years ago and I had no internet. I did leg work. I met with docs, nutritionists and dieticians. I compiled info and broke down nutritional requirements and the corresponding values in food. I checked and rechecked everything and was able to find alot. I never "googled" or whatever. I'm not going to do more research on the subject than I already have, I have fixed my problems and subsequently bf two children. I'm just letting people know that if it's a path you want to pursue, you can. The info is out there.

It's silly that this is such a debate (not just here, but in other threads) If you want to do it, you can. If not, it's your choice. Everyone is resposible for their own decisions. I was comitted to doing the best for my son when I didn't produce milk. I chose to do my research. What I found made all the sense in the world to me and still does. There is more out there than what you can find on google.
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