Optimal Diet / Jan Kwasniewski - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 75 Old 03-21-2010, 11:12 AM
 
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Aw, Hummingmom. Don't beat yourself up.

I'm interested in what Panserbjørne has to say...

I've never had a low supply problem - just an oversupply problem (gluten?) but I still feel for you. It's a hard issue to figure out, in either direction.
My sister had her first baby last May and had a good initial supply, but the baby had trouble latching & being a first-timer, my sister didn't realize that the baby wasn't emptying the breast enough. So the baby lost a lot of weight & my sister's supply became less and less. She was vegan at the time and finally agreed to try adding certain animal fats like wild salmon and pastured eggs and butter & also took a TON of fenugreek and her supply made an amazing comeback. My niece is now 10 months old & super plump & healthy.

It's an interesting idea that your baby was on the smaller side because of the diet (but not in a negative way.)
It sounds like he's thriving, which is what matters the most. Your children are all fortunate that they have a Mama so in tune with how their optimal diets affects them.

I want to thank you again for starting with (& keeping up with!) this thread - it's so helpful to have a community of support when trying to try out or stick with such a different diet.

Of all of the diets, this one seems to make the most sense to me. Carbs are not my friends. If I'm eating potatoes or grains or sugar, I have terrible cravings and awful insulin/blood sugar swings. I played around with my Dad's glucometer and found that my blood sugar would actually DROP after meals with any substantial amount of carbs. This is called post-prandial hypoglycemia and it's a result of too much insulin being released to try to deal with the carbs' effect on the blood sugar.
If I stick with very low carb eating, I don't notice blood sugar/insulin issues and I'm not starving every hour or two. I can actually skip breakfast AND lunch and not even get shaky or nauseous.

I also realize that fat is what I need to get over carb/sugar cravings. I made a paste of cocoa powder mixed with a teeny bit of hot water & mixed it into a quart of pastured cream. Then I added 10 drops of stevia glycerite, some vanilla & put it in the freezer. Before it was completely frozen, I drizzled some peanut butter for a ripple effect. This has been my go-to snack when i feel snacky & it really hits the spot. No idea how it would rate on the Optimal Diet, but it doesn't cause a noticeable blood sugar reaction and it leaves me feeling satiated.

I've been eating REALLY high fat these past few days - lots of eggs, bacon, lard, butter, cream, bone broth, chicken skin, coconut oil, etc & a few times, I've ended up in the bathroom. It's kind of funny, ODing on fat.

One point I'm confused on is veggies. I don't crave veggies and don't particularly love them - I'm definitely a meat & fat kinda gal. I wonder if I eat enough raw liver on a regular basis, if it's that important?
Our CSA will start in May, so we'll have an abundance of veggies, and I fully intend to use every bit, I just worry about the fiber thing. I do think that fiber is a "menace" and since I'm not drawn to a lot of veggies, I feel like my body isn't needing them. Maybe juicing is something to look into, like Tanya said. I've always been skeptical because it doesn't seem like the natural, whole way of eating them, but who knows.

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#62 of 75 Old 03-21-2010, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, guys.

Something else I don't think I've mentioned is that I was diagnosed with borderline/suspected glaucoma last fall. We do have a family history of people getting it relatively young, so the Dr. was inclined toward starting medication (beta blockers). This was a big factor in my decision to go back on the diet, after being off it for a couple of months.

At the time, I had repeated readings of pressure ~23 or 24. (Over 20 is a red flag.) After a month on the diet, it had dropped to I think 17, which is what it had been in the past. So in that sense, the diet seems to have worked as advertised.
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#63 of 75 Old 03-21-2010, 01:27 PM
 
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Here are two referenced articles below from this website concerning vegetables and fruit: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/index.html

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/detox.html

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/5portions.html

The first mentions juicing. I love this site and have referenced it for awhile. Lots of good info and links. Hope this helps!
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#64 of 75 Old 03-21-2010, 07:40 PM
 
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By 5 months old, DS seemed much less happy and had dropped multiple major percentile lines on the growth chart. My milk supply was low no matter what I tried, even going off the diet completely. One side was marginal, and the other side wasn't producing anything at all. (Interestingly enough, that was the same side that my previous baby refused to nurse from after her heart surgery. It was producing plenty of milk back then, but she had a stiff neck, and wouldn't turn her head that way. Maybe it got tired of waiting, and decided to take early retirement? )
The tongue tie does prevent the baby from nursing properly, it interferes with removal from the duct which in turn of course impacts supply. In essence there is no demand if the baby's tongue is anchored, he's feeding passively. The diet has NOTHING to do with this. You probably had a perfect supply (a mom with an oversupply can have babies feed passively for months at a time) but the baby was unable to stimulate it. And, just about every mama has one side that is higher producing. I don't hear anything here that relates to diet given the fact that you identified a tongue tie.

So I started supplementing with formula, and he's been doing great since then, growing well and VERY cheerful and active. He's also grown a gorgeous head of hair, which I find interesting, as my other children had almost no hair at his age. Maybe my milk is low in Pantene Pro-Vitamins. But still... argh! This is definitely not what we had in mind.
Well, this would depend (to me) on the diet you ate with past kids and what YOU were able to access from it. IF you were eating sub optimally for your body, then it makes sense that they wouldn't have a TON of nutrients available to them. Plus tongue tie does get progressively worse with each child, unless measures are taken to improve things. IF your previous kiddos had a less obvious tie, or noone was looking for it they may have been unable to get a robust supply going. There's also the possibly of allergens and many other things to consider with past pregnancies.

The diet was very likely a factor in the low milk supply, but probably not the only one. In hindsight, he wasn't a demanding newborn at all, and due to family events there were lots of people around to cuddle and play with him, so maybe I wasn't nursing him often enough in the beginning. This did cross my mind back then, but I didn't think much of it, as I've always tended toward major oversupply in the past (even with DD2, when I was near-exclusively pumping for the first two months).
See, I think this shows that things changed! Your supply NORMALIZED! Unfortunately he was unable to do what he needed to at the breast.

In addition, DS was born with a tongue tie; it was clipped @ 1 week old, but it still looks a bit peculiar to me. When I started pumping to try and increase supply, I realized that the pump felt much more "natural" and effective than his nursing did. Unfortunately, by that point it seemed to be too late to make much difference in the situation.
I have seen kiddos who were four years old clipped and it still makes a difference. I'm not saying you should have, or that it would have for you, but many MANY babies require a second clipping. It's very hard to see when you first do it, as the blood pools under the tongue and you can't go to far too fast. It sounds like there is still a tie present. My youngest is still tied after two clippings-it happens.

And then there was the high-dose Vitamin D and extra calcium that I started taking. I thought it might increase my supply, but it actually seemed to decrease it even further. Maybe I'm imagining that, as I can't find any references that would support it, but it did seem that way.
It could have just been the natural drop that happens. pumping can sub for a baby, but if you don't do it early enough or often enough it just isn't the same for some. I think what you possibly saw is what you were supposed to see. The only thing I can think of is that calcium, taken in excess can prevent the let down reflex from being as smooth which *can* in some people translate into what seems like a lower supply as less is released....and the cycle then continues. I'm not really saying that's what happened....but I don't think the vitamin D played a part in any way. Just my two cents.

I really wish I knew the full story -- not just from JK's books -- so I could decide whether or not to keep my family on the diet. Other than the milk supply issues, everything has gone great... better general health for me, a much easier and happier pregnancy than previous times, and a baby who's bright, cheerful, and easy-going. But I'm not sure what to do now.
I don't know anyone that could argue that being BAD! That's wonderful!

Just knowing what I know about lactation I dont' hear that this diet was in any way involved. Again, I'm a stranger on the net...but everything you are saying that's negative TO ME screams tongue tie and the vicious cycle that follows it. Hugs, mama.
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#65 of 75 Old 03-21-2010, 07:42 PM
 
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Thanks, guys.

Something else I don't think I've mentioned is that I was diagnosed with borderline/suspected glaucoma last fall. We do have a family history of people getting it relatively young, so the Dr. was inclined toward starting medication (beta blockers). This was a big factor in my decision to go back on the diet, after being off it for a couple of months.

At the time, I had repeated readings of pressure ~23 or 24. (Over 20 is a red flag.) After a month on the diet, it had dropped to I think 17, which is what it had been in the past. So in that sense, the diet seems to have worked as advertised.
just another vote for what really looks to me like improved health! You are doing fabulously well in my eyes.
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#66 of 75 Old 03-21-2010, 08:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Metasequoia View Post

One point I'm confused on is veggies. I don't crave veggies and don't particularly love them - I'm definitely a meat & fat kinda gal. I wonder if I eat enough raw liver on a regular basis, if it's that important?
Our CSA will start in May, so we'll have an abundance of veggies, and I fully intend to use every bit, I just worry about the fiber thing. I do think that fiber is a "menace" and since I'm not drawn to a lot of veggies, I feel like my body isn't needing them. Maybe juicing is something to look into, like Tanya said. I've always been skeptical because it doesn't seem like the natural, whole way of eating them, but who knows.
I don't feel excellent on raw veggies. I cook them to pieces (in a broth or something) or juice them. No, it's not the "natural" way...but I ate way unnaturally for years and as a result have some damage control to do. There was also some very limited research done that showed that our jaws are far weaker than our predecessors and they chewed more vigorously for far longer. Therefore on (undamaged guts) there was less fiber to have to deal with. I don't know that they could have completely broken down the cellulose wall...really there's nothing I've seen that's definitive. I just go by what I feel and what I feel when I eat raw veggies is miserable. They aren't right for me. However by juicing I can extract the good parts and deliver them without discomfort *to me.*
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#67 of 75 Old 03-24-2010, 06:20 PM
 
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I made a paste of cocoa powder mixed with a teeny bit of hot water & mixed it into a quart of pastured cream. Then I added 10 drops of stevia glycerite, some vanilla & put it in the freezer. Before it was completely frozen, I drizzled some peanut butter for a ripple effect. This has been my go-to snack when i feel snacky & it really hits the spot. No idea how it would rate on the Optimal Diet, but it doesn't cause a noticeable blood sugar reaction and it leaves me feeling satiated.
ooooeeeeeeee............ that sounds awesome!!
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#68 of 75 Old 03-25-2010, 11:09 AM
 
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hummingmom, any chance you have a direct link to Optimal Nutrition? I can't seem to find it anymore...

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#69 of 75 Old 03-25-2010, 11:47 AM
 
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There was also some very limited research done that showed that our jaws are far weaker than our predecessors and they chewed more vigorously for far longer. Therefore on (undamaged guts) there was less fiber to have to deal with.
Do you think green smoothies are a semi-natural thing to eat then? Like, they might be the result of LOTS of chewing on our predecessors' part? Have you made them and how do you feel on them as opposed to plain green juice? (Still haven't bought myself one of those juicers for greens to try it, just using my blender atm and making green smoothies...) Myself and ds (who both totally have gut damage that we are working on) seem to do fine on green smoothies...

Lauren, wife to my dear and mama to amazing River
I traditional foods
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#70 of 75 Old 03-25-2010, 03:50 PM
 
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hummingmom, any chance you have a direct link to Optimal Nutrition? I can't seem to find it anymore...
I'm not hummingmom but here is the link: http://homodiet.netfirms.com/
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#71 of 75 Old 03-26-2010, 10:19 AM
 
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I'm not hummingmom but here is the link: http://homodiet.netfirms.com/
I'm looking for a direct link to the book, 'Optimal Nutrition' - am I blind? I can't find it on that page. All I can find is 'Homo optimus'....

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#72 of 75 Old 03-28-2010, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Is the book online? I've never seen it there. We had to order our copy from Poland.

(Unfortunately, it's in a box somewhere, as we're in the middle of moving. Once it gets unpacked, I'd be glad to look something up for you.)
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#73 of 75 Old 03-28-2010, 10:45 AM
 
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Is the book online? I've never seen it there. We had to order our copy from Poland.

(Unfortunately, it's in a box somewhere, as we're in the middle of moving. Once it gets unpacked, I'd be glad to look something up for you.)
Does Poland have a 1-800 number?

I'm thoroughly confused ~ I don't understand how you can order the book.

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#74 of 75 Old 03-31-2010, 04:22 PM
 
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I'm looking for a direct link to the book, 'Optimal Nutrition' - am I blind? I can't find it on that page. All I can find is 'Homo optimus'....
I'm sorry. I thought you meant the website. I've only heard that the book is in Polish but maybe hummingmom's is in English?
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#75 of 75 Old 10-08-2013, 05:53 PM
 
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Hello when you have time could you let me know how you purchased her book? I only see copies for around 80 on Amazon
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