The China Study vs. Weston Price - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-21-2009, 11:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
In "The Garden of Eating", the author does a comparison of the groups Weston Price studied and shows how the folks eating a meat/produce-heavy, no grain (but full of carb-rich veggies and fruits) diet had less tooth decay issues than those eating grains. The differences were small yet significant, and I found it interesting...
Varies by the grain, too -- they're starting to analyze teeth from the beginnings of agriculture in different places, and it looks like grain itself is not entirely to blame in tooth decay as much as the method of preparation and the type of grain. It wasn't until we started polishing them and turning them into smooshy stuff that really stuck in tooth crevices that tooth decay got significantly worse. And rice is not as bad as other grains, they're seeing.

savithny, 42 year old moderate mom to DS Primo (age 12) and DD Secunda (age 9).

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Old 05-21-2009, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
If your disinclined to believe or wary of WAPF, then you should start with Price's original work Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, not NT. Also, the reason we do need these nutrient-dense foods in substantial quantities beyond a mere "presence" is because they were, traditionally, eaten in substantial quantities. We're not talking about just enough nutrient-dense foods to get by on the RDA; rather, the diets of peoples Price studies were substantially higher in these nutrients than in the Standard American Diet of Price's time and certainly higher than the Standard American Diet of our time.

With the exception of a handful of peoples studied in Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, the native diets were heavy in animal foods and high in fat. That's precisely why these foods play such an important role in the traditional foods movement.
Thanks, yeah, I mixed up the book titles. The one I want to read is Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, not NT.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:48 PM
 
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I have been interested in TF for about 5 years now - I got Sally Fallon's book when ds2 was born. My neighbor just gave us a copy of the China Study, so I'm very interested in this thread. Before I can give any intelligent feed back I need to read the China Study. For now I will be :

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Old 05-22-2009, 11:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post

I've read over and over on allergy/food sensitivity forums that dairy (and gluten, for that matter) can be very hard to digest, and may not be best added into *everyone's* diet. We are all so unique, yk?! Also, for sensitive folks, the preparation (cultured vs. straight raw milk) can make a big difference...
Groups that traditionally ate dairy -- many of them evolved eating dairy for nearly 10,000 years. Over that time, the gene for adult lactose tolerance became more and more common in those groups. Geneticists have done map overlays of lactose tolerance with the areas of early domestication of milk cattle and they match -- near the center of those areas, nearly 100% of people are lactose-tolerant as adults, and as you move away, fewer and fewer people can drink milk as adults.


I strongly disagree with the NT assertion (or interpretation of NT assertions that I've seen here) that *anyone* can drink milk as long as it is raw and that if you can't you need to "heal the gut" and then you will be able to. There's far too much evidence to the contrary. And most of us are such genetic mixes at this point that just because one of our parents grooves on lots of milk it doesn't mean that each and every one of us can handle drinking milk

savithny, 42 year old moderate mom to DS Primo (age 12) and DD Secunda (age 9).

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Old 05-23-2009, 02:36 PM
 
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I would love to hear a debate from each of these two points of view! Does any one know if there is such a thing?
Has anyone read The China Study as well as Traditional Diet info? I would love to hear thoughts about these two conflicting ideas....
TIA!


Just a reminder that we will not host debates in this forum -

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Nutrition and Good Eating and its subforums are boards of support, respectful requests of information, and sharing of ideas and experiences. To uphold this purpose MDC will not host discussions of debate or criticism within Nutrition and Good Eating, Vegetarian & Vegan Living, Traditional Foods and Meal Planning. Disagreements about dietary choices and personal beliefs should be set aside out of respect for the diversity and varying interpretations and beliefs that we hold as a community.

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That said, I am impressed that everyone is keeping this discussion respectful and people are discussing their own experience instead of all-ou debating and putting down opposing points of view. If the tone and content of the posting changes, this thread will have to be removed.

Thanks everyone! :
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Old 05-23-2009, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the heads up... I'm still new here and didnt realize I was going against the guidelines... I was just looking for information and I know that the Mothering mamas know what's up.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:45 PM
 
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I'm just starting to read the China Study and have followed NT for a long time. I hope this thread stays alive because after I finish the China Study I am going to read Weston A Price's book.

So far with the China Study I have felt like the data presented to me are a little bit skewed. Like the idea that isolated casein protein causing an increase of cancer can be extrapolated to mean that all protein could increase the risk of cancer. From what I know of NT, any type of processing of milk (homogenization, pasteurization or heaven forbid making it into dried milk ) is considered toxic. So, eating isolated casein protein seems like it is not a good example of diets that include animal products, but I'm still just getting into the book, so I cannot offer an informed opinion until I'm through. Hopefully you other Mamas will keep discussing

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Old 08-23-2009, 08:49 AM
 
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IMO, it makes the most sense to choose one traditional way of eating (either from a specific country, or a more general category such as coastal Asian, European agrarian, hunter-gatherer, etc.), learn as much about it as you can, and then prepare most of your meals along those lines, while applying Price's guidelines for maximizing nutrient density. It doesn't necessarily have to be the diet of your own ancestors; Stefansson did well on the meat-based diet he learned from the Inuit, and, conversely, so did Native American children who were put on a "white man's diet" that was based on raw milk and whole grains. Still, there's a lot to be said for cultural connectedness.
This makes so much sense to me. I am still confused about food and diet in a huge huge way. But it does make sense to me to simplify ad get down to basics and not do too much mixing and matching. I would love to learn more about the local diet where I live, with my ancestry being highly mixed and my sons ancestry being even more complex. Food and nutrition definitly has the potential to be a full time job.

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Originally Posted by savithny View Post
I've been reading anthro/bio articles on various diets and dietary adaptations of different groups, and read a really interesting one the other day about the adaptation of different groups of Plains Indians. Groups that lived out on the plains lived largely off Bison, and the researchers were interested in the fact that those groups had such strong beliefs and taboos that they would nto eat fish, even when the fish were spawning in the streams they got their water from. Fishing is one of the easiest ways to get large amounts of good fat and protein -- yet high Plains groups would eat fat-depleted bison rather than rich fatty fish. It turns otu that there was so little fat in bison meat by the end of the winter that their stomachs were not adapted to the amount of fat in the fish, and eating fish would cause fat malabsorption syndrome and make them sick. Instead, those groups would combine their low-fat bison with stored carb foods --- dried berries and tubers that they dug up -- to ensure that they didn't die of "lean protein starvation."

Groups living at the edges of the plains would eat the fish -- but they did not rely as much on bison, but ate more different foods and also a lot of nuts, so their stomachs could handle the sudden surge of dietary fat when the spawning fish showed up in the spring.

So even groups who were closely related and lived quite close together would have a very different diet with very different fat/protein/carb percentages -- but they were adapted very well to the lifestyle that they led.
Your post highlighted for me how wrong we can be with assuptions. As I was reading your post I was wondering how it was that these people had a taboo against a potentially healthy food option. And yet it turns out there was wisdom in that choice.
I worry that we are so far removed from the ability to study and know health that we will have lost it before we even know which questions to be asking. But that is totally OT

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Thanks for the heads up... I'm still new here and didnt realize I was going against the guidelines... I was just looking for information and I know that the Mothering mamas know what's up.
I have learnt so much from mothering mama's This place has me questioning all sorts of assumptions I had.

I am still trying to figure things out for myself.

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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