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#1 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is there a tradtional foods friendly consensus on how to lower insulin levels? I've seen arguments for low carb, low glycemic load, and low fructose. It seems like all three of those would play a role, but I haven't been able to find anything that puts it all together for me. Any leads?

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#2 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 01:18 PM
 
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I highly doubt you'll find any sort of consensus on anything diet related.

For IR - it really depends on the severity and what you're trying to accomplish. And don't forget that everyone's body is different. Personally I did well on a low carb diet, but I did amazingly well on a grain-free/sugar-free diet. It turns out that my body doesn't handle grains very well at all. I've found it very difficult to maintain, but while I was doing it, I felt AMAZING.

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#3 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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True. I guess what I'm looking for is a low fructose plan that doesn't think saturated fat is evil. And I'm not looking to follow it to the letter, just as a starting point.

What I really want to know is if I can reasonably expect to eat eggy brown rice pancakes with loads of butter and no syrup for breakfast, without causing crazy inflammation, and I don't want to run calculations myself.

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#4 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 05:46 PM
 
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Subbing; part of me knows that I need to cut grains, but a louder part of me keeps saying "blah blah blah blah".

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#5 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 05:58 PM
 
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I'm not sold on low fructose. Let me find the link about it. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...e#post13263071


ETA: HFCS is different, however. Also, many bee keepers are feeding their bees HFCS now too. So, you have to know your source of honey and talk with the bee keeper about what she feeds her bees.


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#6 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 06:02 PM
 
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Also, plenty of protein and fats should help stabilize blood sugar. Mostly, check your adrenals. Have you read my favorite new article about Adrenal Fatigue? It discusses how cortisol gets used in stress and its relation to blood sugar issues. http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp


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#7 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
What I really want to know is if I can reasonably expect to eat eggy brown rice pancakes with loads of butter and no syrup for breakfast, without causing crazy inflammation, and I don't want to run calculations myself.
Well, I don't even know what calculations you would run other than using a glucometer to test your BS. But I eat a more TF diet with plenty of saturated fats - I don't worry about naturally occuring fructose (fruits and vegetables), I do eat a bit of honey or maple syrup. When I'm grain free/sugar free (which is when I feel the best), it's literally grain free/sugar free - those are the only things I'm restricting - the rest of the whole foods gamut is open to me. And I do really well on that.

Ultimately it comes down to experimentation, IME... what works well for you.

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#8 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 06:54 PM
 
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Here are more GF/DF bread recipes: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...highlight=teff
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...f#post13547587

Gluten-free sourdough: http://www.glutenfreesourdough.blogspot.com/

Breakfast ideas: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...highlight=teff

Buckwheat, teff, amaranth, garbanzo, flax seed, tapioca, dal, lentils are all high protein grains/flour options. Gluten-free alternatives: http://www.csaceliacs.org/gluten_grains.php


Consider juicing some cucumbers, beets, celery, spinach, (kale, Romaine lettuce, beet greens), carrots and any fruits. Frozen fruits and greens make great smoothies mid-day also. Check out this fabulous site about "Got Greens?" http://gotgreensrevolution.com/ Together the amino acids form a complete protein which is easily digestible. Throw in some fats (butter, coconut oil, olive oil, flax oil, almond oil) or (soaked) nuts (almonds especially) and you have a more complex meal.

I've read that by including one almond per 10# of body weight at breakfast, it increases metabolic rate and helps to maintain a stable blood sugar, all day long.

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#9 of 60 Old 05-22-2009, 08:40 PM
 
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im a type1 diabetic. i have found that very very good vitamins and proportioning has reduced my insulin requirements. i have also cleaned my liver and colon using natural cleansings. i currently drink kombucha and found that to be agod send for blood sugar control and insulin needs. the less junk in your body the less medications have to fight with.
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#10 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been doing some serious experimenting on myself and dd for the past two years, but have't found the pot of gold yet I feel like I'm doing everything I "should" and I've looked down every path I can think of. Now I'm looking down the inflammation path, which involves minimizing insulin levels. I've checked myself with a glucose meter and I'm not really out of range, but I don't pass with flying colors either. If I'm going down the inflammation path, I'm going to do the best I can.

This is the fructose/insulin resistance info I'm looking at:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/5

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#11 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 12:00 PM
 
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I'm really interested in this, too... I have the classic insulin-resistant body shape (look 7 months pregnant even when not pg at all : ) and my fasting blood sugars are always too high. Not diabetic high, but definitely not healthy.

Now I'm 7 weeks pregnant and my blood sugars are already worse than ever and I'm fully expecting to be put on insulin... which I don't really understand how that could help, since although my insulin levels haven't been tested... I'd pretty much bet they're sky high. I have plenty of insulin. It just doesn't WORK. I have many signs of overall inflammation and I'm guessing those would probably get even worse if I were injecting insulin???

Eating a pretty darn low-carb diet is supposed to help, but that still doesn't directly address the resistance issue. Cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid, and magnesium are all supposed to help increase sensitivity to insulin. I've been taking plain ol' cinnamon (and sometimes the fancy CinnaForce) for quite a while with no apparent effect. It really helps my diabetic mom, though. I recently started taking extra magnesium for other reasons, and it doesn't seem to have helped my blood sugars at all. I just started alpha lipoic acid, so we'll see how that goes.

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#12 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junegoddess View Post
Eating a pretty darn low-carb diet is supposed to help, but that still doesn't directly address the resistance issue. Cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid, and magnesium are all supposed to help increase sensitivity to insulin. I've been taking plain ol' cinnamon (and sometimes the fancy CinnaForce) for quite a while with no apparent effect. It really helps my diabetic mom, though. I recently started taking extra magnesium for other reasons, and it doesn't seem to have helped my blood sugars at all. I just started alpha lipoic acid, so we'll see how that goes.
Cinnamon, that's interesting - I LOVE cinnamon, but haven't been eating it much. Have you seen the fructose stuff? There's also this interview (click for the transcript) about insulin fructose and leptin from this old thread.

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#13 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 03:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Junegoddess View Post
I just started alpha lipoic acid, so we'll see how that goes.

If you have or ever have had mercury fillings in your teeth
, I wouldn't take ALA during pregnancy or nursing. It releases ("chelates") stored mercury into blood circulation to be redeposited in other organs, brain, fetus.

Check out Black Seed/oil, nigella sativa and diabetes/insulin on PubMed. There are a lot of current Western science studies about it lowering blood sugar, specifically due to its anti-inflammatory properties. I believe they are related to the (unidentified) essential fatty acids and anti-oxidant effects of the Thymoquinone component.


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#14 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 03:30 PM
 
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Other anti-inflammatory herbs and spices to include in our diet:

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.co...ammatory_herbs
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA14297...tory-Herbs.com
http://ezinearticles.com/?Traditiona...ments&id=94022
http://www.natural-holistic-health.c...mmatory-herbs/

Herbs and Spices Help Prevent Diabetes Damage

Some of the spices used were cloves (30% phenol content by weight) and cinnamon (18%), while sage (8%) and oregano (6%) are examples of herbs used for the study. It was found in the study that phenol content was directly related to preventing damage caused by diabetes by inhibiting AGE.

http://www.defeatdiabetes.org/news/view.asp?id=49365
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=91645
http://www.medindia.net/news/Herbs-a...es-40297-1.htm


I believe another aspect is the acid and alkaline forming foods. Acid forming foods are going to result in an imbalance of the microbials in the gut and damage the cells throughout the body. So, choosing alkaline forming foods is critical, from my reading.

"Alkaline" forming foods. This is my list of nutrient dense, alkaline forming foods.

bananas
pineapple
kale
spinach
dandelion
ginger
flax seed oil
collard greens
cinnamon
cucumber
fig
dates
grapes
oranges
pumpkin seeds
chestnuts
sunflower seeds
chili pepper
salt
peppers
sprouts
carrot
celery
garlic
lemons
limes
wheat grass
olive oil
turnip
watermelon
beets
apple
coconut
curry
strawberries
grapefruit juice (note this makes many medications less effective)
pear
peach
bee pollen
almonds
avocado
oranges
cherry juice
black strap molasses
apricots
raisins

HTH, Pat

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#15 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 03:31 PM
 
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I found these interesting lists of acid and alkaline foods:
http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html
http://www.essense-of-life.com/info/foodchart.htm
http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/acid.html
http://www.energiseforlife.com/list_...line_foods.php

Everything seems to indicate that we need more "alkaline" foods (80% of our diet), because "too much" acidity causes illness.


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#16 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 03:46 PM
 
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This is the fructose/insulin resistance info I'm looking at:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/5
Hmmm...the first sentence mentions obesity. Recently, there was posted a study about how the Gut Microbials were different in obese and thin folks. The gut microbiology affects the nutrient absorption and thus affects our "need" to consume foods to obtain adequate nutrition. These studies indicate the essential nature of nutrient dense foods. (someone have the link to that study?)

I believe the "studies" on obesity and diabetes ignore the nutritional and gut microbial components and focuses on "sugars", including HFCS. I'm not convinced that the obesity leads to the diabetes, as much as the nutrient deficiencies and imbalance of gut microbials leads to obesity and diabetes.

Yes, your linked study focuses on NUTRIENT DEFICIENT HFCS!! Not the nutrient dense fructose in raw, local honey. "substantial increase in the amount of dietary fructose consumption from high intake of sucrose and high fructose corn syrup"


HFCS is not a natural food product. It is a chemical process manufactured by science. I totally don't believe any of us need to consume HFCS in any way, shape or form! But, the concern about fructose in this article related to diabetes is not referencing raw honey, a totally healthy type of fructose, imo.

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#17 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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But, the concern about fructose in this article related to diabetes is not referencing raw honey, a totally healthy type of fructose, imo.

Pat, do you have a link or opinion on how much, on average, raw honey is a good amount to consume each day? (I know you rec. 1 TBS b/4 bedtime--maybe just for my specific case, but I'd love to know what you think a good min/max level would be in general, if you have an opinion on that!)

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#18 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 04:12 PM
 
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Pat, do you have a link or opinion on how much, on average, raw honey is a good amount to consume each day? (I know you rec. 1 TBS b/4 bedtime--maybe just for my specific case, but I'd love to know what you think a good min/max level would be in general, if you have an opinion on that!)
I've heard a max. of 10 Tbls a day. I don't recommend more than 3-4 tablespoons a day, however. I'm thinking in drinks and straight. Using honey as a sweetener in baking, still, I wouldn't want to consume that much glucose (10 Tbls). We don't consume that much sweet, anyway, other than whole fruits and vegetables.

No documentation or links, just IMNSHO. I take almost a tablespoon amount at bedtime. It is RAW, unheated, local honey. Bees not fed HFCS!!


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#19 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 04:48 PM
 
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I think it is just a personal experimentation thing as well. Even local raw honey doesn't do well for me on the insulin front or the yeast issue- even though it is supposed to be ok. Like Cristeen I do better w/ no sugar no grain- absolutely- regardless if it is gf- perfectly soaked organic- yada-yada grain. I am currently doing ok while prego w/ brown rice but absolutely not any kind of rice flour. I do eat them as I have been giving into cravings but I feel best off of it all.

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No documentation or links, just IMNSHO. I take almost a tablespoon amount at bedtime. It is RAW, unheated, local honey. Bees not fed HFCS!!
Thank you Pat!!! And your opionion means a lot to me!!

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#21 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 05:06 PM
 
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I am currently doing ok while prego w/ brown rice but absolutely not any kind of rice flour.
This is interesting to me--do you grind your own rice flour (and soak it for use in baking or something like pancakes?) and it still doesn't sit well w/ you?

I have never gone totally off of grains (we are gf though) to realize how my body feels w/out them, although my life and how I feel changed dramatically when dropping gluten...

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#22 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hmmm...the first sentence mentions obesity. Recently, there was posted a study about how the Gut Microbials were different in obese and thin folks. The gut microbiology affects the nutrient absorption and thus affects our "need" to consume foods to obtain adequate nutrition. These studies indicate the essential nature of nutrient dense foods. (someone have the link to that study?)

I believe the "studies" on obesity and diabetes ignore the nutritional and gut microbial components and focuses on "sugars", including HFCS. I'm not convinced that the obesity leads to the diabetes, as much as the nutrient deficiencies and imbalance of gut microbials leads to obesity and diabetes.

Yes, your linked study focuses on NUTRIENT DEFICIENT HFCS!! Not the nutrient dense fructose in raw, local honey. "substantial increase in the amount of dietary fructose consumption from high intake of sucrose and high fructose corn syrup"


HFCS is not a natural food product. It is a chemical process manufactured by science. I totally don't believe any of us need to consume HFCS in any way, shape or form! But, the concern about fructose in this article related to diabetes is not referencing raw honey, a totally healthy type of fructose, imo.

Pat
I definitely think obesity has more to do with hormones than diet, and it's not the fact that you're obese that you have health problems, it's the hormones that are out of line that are making you obese *and* have health problems. In the case of weight gain around the middle, the hormone that's out of whack is usually insulin, and when insulin's out of whack, that's when you're going to end up diabetic.

I like the fructose explanation of insulin resistance, because it makes more sense to me in a traditional foods context than the glycemic index one or the low carb one. I think all three have parts to play in healing, hence this thread. And who ever said honey was bad? I'm still not convinced it's a good idea when trying to heal insulin resistance, but it might be the first fructose to reintroduce

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#23 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Junegoddess View Post

Eating a pretty darn low-carb diet is supposed to help, but that still doesn't directly address the resistance issue. Cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid, and magnesium are all supposed to help increase sensitivity to insulin. I've been taking plain ol' cinnamon (and sometimes the fancy CinnaForce) for quite a while with no apparent effect. It really helps my diabetic mom, though. I recently started taking extra magnesium for other reasons, and it doesn't seem to have helped my blood sugars at all. I just started alpha lipoic acid, so we'll see how that goes.
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If you have or ever have had mercury fillings in your teeth
, I wouldn't take ALA during pregnancy or nursing. It releases ("chelates") stored mercury into blood circulation to be redeposited in other organs, brain, fetus.
Junegoddess, I would go further than Pat's warning and say no pregnant woman should start taking alpha lipoic acid. Period. It is a significant chelator of heavy metals, and now is not the time you want to start moving the metals in your body. Even without amalgam fillings, we all have this stuff, it's ubiquitous in our environment.

I am using alpha lipoic acid to get the mercury and arsenic and probably a few other things that I've got at lower levels out of my body. I HATE the fact that it's just thrown into various supplements as if it's a normal anti-oxidant, it gives people the wrong impression. Clearly not everyone has significant heavy metal issues like my kids and I do, but I just don't think pregnancy (or nursing) is the time to start experimenting with it.
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#24 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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probiotic connection for you, pat
and a honey article, but I can't see the full text
and you'll LOVE this one. Have you seen it before?

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#25 of 60 Old 05-23-2009, 11:54 PM
 
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If you have or ever have had mercury fillings in your teeth
, I wouldn't take ALA during pregnancy or nursing. It releases ("chelates") stored mercury into blood circulation to be redeposited in other organs, brain, fetus.

Check out Black Seed/oil, nigella sativa and diabetes/insulin on PubMed. There are a lot of current Western science studies about it lowering blood sugar, specifically due to its anti-inflammatory properties. I believe they are related to the (unidentified) essential fatty acids and anti-oxidant effects of the Thymoquinone component.


Pat
I'll tell my mom about the ALA... if it works for me, she's going to try to find room in her budget for it, but she has LOTS of fillings, and the earliest ones were all amalgam. I don't have any mercury in my mouth. Not sure how I avoided that... I didn't know about it when I got my first adult cavities... but my dentist says I'm metal-free.
I'll read about the nigella sativa when my brain is working better. Gotta catch up on all the other info on this thread...

SAHM of Kayla (11/98) Hunter (8/03) Jo (1/04) : Jared (2/05) Camelia (12/07) Hope/Chance (11/08) and Jack (12/09)
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#26 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 12:03 AM
 
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Junegoddess, I would go further than Pat's warning and say no pregnant woman should start taking alpha lipoic acid. Period.
: Poopy. (It's childish, but... I don't think there's a foot-stomping icon.)

I wanted it to magically work and help me have better blood sugars and even better digestion and... and... and...

I'm out of magic pills to try. Well, except nigella sativa. And of course the really dull and boring EXERCISE. It's hard to start up with that again when I'm slammed with the first trimester sleepies. I was doing SO WELL the first couple of months of the year.... and then got hit with my first asthma attack in a few years (thought going gluten-free had cured my asthma, guess not) and had no stamina at all for the next 6 weeks or so. Which meant my new habit of exercising became un-habited. And I never picked it up again. And then, surprise, I got pregnant.

Ok, nevermind, this thread isn't about me... let's see if I can click some of those links and actually understand what's being said.

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#27 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 02:12 AM
 
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I'll tell my mom about the ALA... if it works for me, she's going to try to find room in her budget for it, but she has LOTS of fillings, and the earliest ones were all amalgam. I don't have any mercury in my mouth. Not sure how I avoided that... I didn't know about it when I got my first adult cavities... but my dentist says I'm metal-free.
Unfortunately, you probably got a mercury dump from your mom. Just as my son did from me---in utero and through nursing.

No ALA for prego mamas.


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#28 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 02:14 AM
 
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probiotic connection for you, pat
and a honey article, but I can't see the full text
and you'll LOVE this one. Have you seen it before?

:nana:


Wait till I/someone finds the one about gut microbials and obesity. : I totally believe that probiotics help to prevent diabetes. Tomorrow, I'll try to hunt for info about the relationship between probiotics and diabetes/autoimmune diseases.


Pat

I have a blog.
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#29 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 10:36 AM
 
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Unfortunately, you probably got a mercury dump from your mom. Just as my son did from me---in utero and through nursing.

No ALA for prego mamas.


Pat
Well, I don't think my mom's teeth went bad until after I was born. And she didn't nurse me very long because I was very sickly, and her doctor blamed it on her milk and put me on soy formula. I was probably allergic to food she was eating, but no one knew about that sort of thing back then.

Still, I won't take any more ALA. I do need to start making water kefir again, for good probiotics. And maybe take a probiotic supplement, too. I could definitely believe a connection between poor bowel health (lack of friendly flora) and auto-immune disease. It was right after a horrible case of giardia that I either became allergic to so many foods or finally noticed that I'd been allergic for a long time. And apparently developed a clotting disorder.

SAHM of Kayla (11/98) Hunter (8/03) Jo (1/04) : Jared (2/05) Camelia (12/07) Hope/Chance (11/08) and Jack (12/09)
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#30 of 60 Old 05-24-2009, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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: Poopy. (It's childish, but... I don't think there's a foot-stomping icon.)

I wanted it to magically work and help me have better blood sugars and even better digestion and... and... and...

I'm out of magic pills to try. Well, except nigella sativa. And of course the really dull and boring EXERCISE. It's hard to start up with that again when I'm slammed with the first trimester sleepies. I was doing SO WELL the first couple of months of the year.... and then got hit with my first asthma attack in a few years (thought going gluten-free had cured my asthma, guess not) and had no stamina at all for the next 6 weeks or so. Which meant my new habit of exercising became un-habited. And I never picked it up again. And then, surprise, I got pregnant.

Ok, nevermind, this thread isn't about me... let's see if I can click some of those links and actually understand what's being said.
You might be interested in some of the stuff we're talking about in the allergies forum...

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
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