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#31 of 55 Old 08-29-2009, 06:49 PM
 
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That's a lot of calories for a woman. Have you calculated your caloric needs?

I track at www.thedailyplate.com and they calculate my caloric needs based on how much I currently weigh and how much I want to loose. My calories should be in the 1500 range - I'm 5'7" and 162lbs.

2300 seems pretty high unless you're an athlete and you may find it difficult to loose at that calorie level.
It all depends on activity level.
I dropped 20 pounds in 2 weeks, eating an average of 3,000 calories everyday, but I was also moving/hauling dirt and firewood, building a huge chicken fence, preparing the chicken coop, gardening, etc, you get the picture!

On days that I am not nearly as active, I regulate down without even thinking about it.

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#32 of 55 Old 08-29-2009, 10:37 PM
 
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WHO recommends at least 2000 calories for women to meet their nutritional needs.
1500 calories is considered a semi-starvation diet, at least for men.
Everyone is different with their caloric needs though for sure.
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#33 of 55 Old 08-29-2009, 11:41 PM
 
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I know that it should be simple math...calories in and calories out, but for some reason, it just has never worked that way for me. When I was first diagnosed with diabetes, the (insane) doctor I saw wanted me on a 1200 calorie diet with no carb restriction. I was pretty overweight...230 lbs at 5 foot 4. I followed the 1200 plan PERFECTLY for six weeks with no weight loss at all, until I finally realized that I was starving and angry and approaching crazy, and that the stress would probably kill me before the diabetes did. I eat a lot more calories than that now, with way more fat and protein. I don't know my percentages, and I do eat a lot more veggies than one would on phase 1 of Atkins or something similar, but I have lost a lot of weight eating this way and continue to lose. I'm curious what my calorie intake its, but I've had a hard time getting programs like fitday to work for me. For instance, home-made kefir and mozzarella are hugely variable, as are meats, depending on how you cook them, etc.
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#34 of 55 Old 08-30-2009, 12:11 AM
 
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Paula,
I totally agree - that's why I clarified that her calories where high unless she was an athlete (or very physically active).

Also, simplykate - those calorie levels are not for a person trying to loose weight. If you want to loose weight, you must cut calories.

No, it's not as simple as calories in, calories out but, calories do play a part in weight loss. The OP is concerned that she's not loosing weight and my suggestion to her is that it might be because she's eating too many calories. She should check her activity level and adjust accordingly.

Poppymum - I think 1200 is way too low for anyone. 1500 is my minimum - I eat more on days I exercise heavily but, my baseline is 1500 and I'm very satisfied eating at that caloric level. But, I eat fairly high fat, moderate protein, lower carbs so I'm fuller longer. It would be nearly impossible for me to feel satisfied on 1500 if I was eating low fat and higher carbs.
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#35 of 55 Old 08-31-2009, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's a lot of calories for a woman. Have you calculated your caloric needs?

I track at www.thedailyplate.com and they calculate my caloric needs based on how much I currently weigh and how much I want to loose. My calories should be in the 1500 range - I'm 5'7" and 162lbs.

2300 seems pretty high unless you're an athlete and you may find it difficult to loose at that calorie level.
well, i've been maintaining my current weight eating 2600 calories a day. i checked out thedailyplate. though there's no way of adjusting for nursing. so i bumped myself up an activitly level (from moderately active to very active) to try to compensate for that. they suggests just under 2300 calories a day.

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#36 of 55 Old 08-31-2009, 11:38 PM
 
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but then i looked at how many calories i'm eating!
I didn't bother quoting those that came after you... but one of the main points that you need to remember about low carb is that it's not about calories. It is not as simple as calorie restriction - if it were, low fat diets would work for all of us. I highly recommend getting into the swing of a LC diet/way of life before even thinking about calorie restriction, or else you're setting yourself up for failure. One of the main reasons low fat diets fail is because you never feel full - don't make that mistake with LC. Most people will lose really nicely without any calorie restriction at all - just by drastically cutting their carbs. Besides - after a few weeks of LC, most people notice they start naturally reducing their intake. Once your body adjusts to a LC WOE, it'll start adjusting how much food it wants, too. When DH and I first started LC, we could sit down and polish off 5# of buffalo wings (frozen 5# bag of chicken wings) in one sitting. Now we couldn't manage 2# between us.

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So what do you all do when you eat out? I know the first answer is "don't eat out", but sometimes we don't have much choice, and sometimes we really like to eat out.
It's about making good choices - both in the restaurant and in the food there. Someplace like Quiznos or Subway is pretty much never going to be a good choice for a LCer, since everything is on bread. Most Asian food can be a good choice though - a stir-fry at Chinese, BBQ at Vietnamese or Korean, Curry at Thai or Indian. And if you're wanting sushi, order a roll and ask them to skip the rice - or some chefs are willing to replace the rice with cucumber - or just order sashimi. Just skip the rice/noodles and stay away from the sweet sauces.

Mexican is easy - pretty much any meat plate, ask them to hold the rice.
Seafood is easy - skip the potatoes/rice/pasta, and get the grilled rather than the deep fried item.
Even a deli - order coleslaw, a green salad, or even a seafood salad, you can order your favorite combo of meat and cheese with all the trimmings without the bread, and just ask for a fork. It's a little messier that way, but perfectly do-able.

Even fast food - there are a couple fast food restaurants that offer a bunless burger... Carl's Jr (Hardees), last I checked BK did too, but any of them will leave the bun off if you ask.

And for any sit-down style restaurant, just look through the menu. You may have to design your own meal at some places (ordering a burger no bun, extra cheese, with the green salad instead of the fries, etc.), but most sit-down restaurants don't have a problem with that kind of substitution. I know there was a time when I was waitressing that was pretty much my nightly dinner, even though technically it wasn't one of the staff options, I couldn't eat any of the staff food, so I lived on that combo.

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#37 of 55 Old 09-01-2009, 12:03 AM
 
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#38 of 55 Old 09-01-2009, 01:21 AM
 
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I didn't bother quoting those that came after you... but one of the main points that you need to remember about low carb is that it's not about calories. It is not as simple as calorie restriction - if it were, low fat diets would work for all of us. I highly recommend getting into the swing of a LC diet/way of life before even thinking about calorie restriction, or else you're setting yourself up for failure. One of the main reasons low fat diets fail is because you never feel full - don't make that mistake with LC.
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I respectfully disagree that calories don't matter. They do.
If you read what I said, I didn't say they don't matter. I said it's not about the calories, and that it is not as simple as calorie restriction. Most of us have tried low fat diets which are all about calorie restriction. Obviously if we're LCing, LF diets didn't work for us. Calorie restriction alone is not the solution.

I also said that I recommend getting into the swing of a LC WOE before worrying about calorie counting - which is something Dr. Eades agrees with. Once you're past the adjustment phase of LC, most people see their intake drop dramatically, because their bodies adjust to the feeling of satiation. When that happens, most people will find that their calorie count drops naturally - without having to stress over every mouthful. If you've gone through the adjustment and have been eating LC for a month or two and NOT seeing the calorie count drop, then that's the time to start thinking about it, but going into LC thinking about it is setting yourself up for failure, because the adjustment period will usually have you eating MORE food, not less.

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#39 of 55 Old 09-01-2009, 09:24 AM
 
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Well, I am mostly on the page with amcal, BUT 2 things: 1) I have never been overweight and all of my health/nutrition/low carb research and interest has been about general health and wellness, not weight loss.

BUT, I am really starting to think the health of one's endocrine system has A LOT more to do with weight gain/loss than food choices (though I think food choice in the long term is very connected to endocrine health).

One of the best things one can do to help their endocrine health IS to go low carb, so it all ties in, but I don't think its as direct as "eat less calories" or "eat less carbs" if that's not enough to heal one's endocrine system.

Please anyone correct my reasoning above, as I have done little real scientific research on this, its just the feeling I get from what I have seen while doing general wellness research.
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#40 of 55 Old 09-05-2009, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I didn't bother quoting those that came after you... but one of the main points that you need to remember about low carb is that it's not about calories. It is not as simple as calorie restriction - if it were, low fat diets would work for all of us. I highly recommend getting into the swing of a LC diet/way of life before even thinking about calorie restriction, or else you're setting yourself up for failure. One of the main reasons low fat diets fail is because you never feel full - don't make that mistake with LC. Most people will lose really nicely without any calorie restriction at all - just by drastically cutting their carbs. Besides - after a few weeks of LC, most people notice they start naturally reducing their intake. Once your body adjusts to a LC WOE, it'll start adjusting how much food it wants, too. When DH and I first started LC, we could sit down and polish off 5# of buffalo wings (frozen 5# bag of chicken wings) in one sitting. Now we couldn't manage 2# between us.
thanks for the reminder, not to be too concerned with calories right now. mostly i was just surprised at how much what i eat adds up to, i've never food tracked before. i have zero tolerance for being hungry, i just mean to make sure i am hungry is all. not eating just cause i'm tired or whatever.

thanks everyone for your help.

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#41 of 55 Old 09-05-2009, 03:31 PM
 
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I believe that weight loss/gain is completely controlled by hormones, specifically insulin. Completely. So I don't think that counting calories is helpful at all with weight loss. I think we often get it backwards with regards to calories....what we eat controls how hungry we get and the cravings we have, not the other way around. A proper diet will not allow someone to overeat, and a diet that raises insulin too much will cause hunger and cravings and overeating.

In Dr. Eades' articles on calories, he said he finds that many people overeat on foods like nuts and cheese - these foods contain carbs and raise insulin. It's not that people are simply overeating calories - they are compelled to overeat because the body is reacting to the carbs, plain and simple.

If you are gaining or not losing weight you need to lose, the culprit will be found in what you eat. You do not have to count calories - just look at the foods you eat that contain carbs and realize that those are the foods that are driving your hunger. The only way to change it is to reduce the carbs. Counting calories won't work...the evidence for that is all around us.

Just my .02
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#42 of 55 Old 09-05-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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I believe that weight loss/gain is completely controlled by hormones, specifically insulin. Completely. So I don't think that counting calories is helpful at all with weight loss. I think we often get it backwards with regards to calories....what we eat controls how hungry we get and the cravings we have, not the other way around. A proper diet will not allow someone to overeat, and a diet that raises insulin too much will cause hunger and cravings and overeating.

In Dr. Eades' articles on calories, he said he finds that many people overeat on foods like nuts and cheese - these foods contain carbs and raise insulin. It's not that people are simply overeating calories - they are compelled to overeat because the body is reacting to the carbs, plain and simple.

If you are gaining or not losing weight you need to lose, the culprit will be found in what you eat. You do not have to count calories - just look at the foods you eat that contain carbs and realize that those are the foods that are driving your hunger. The only way to change it is to reduce the carbs. Counting calories won't work...the evidence for that is all around us.

Just my .02
I agree completely, at least as far as my own weight loss goes. When I was my thinnest (which was, really, too thin), I was eating upwards of 3200 calories a day, all in fats and proteins. At the time, I was 112lbs, having dropped from 130-135 on my 5'6" frame. I am now back closer to my previous weight again, and am hoping to get closer to 125. The calorie stuff had me a bit concerned, actually, until I looked back at my food logs from back when I'd lost that weight. Low carb--regardless of calories--is what works for me. (I went low-carb to treat thrush/yeast problems, btw, not specifically for weight loss.)

Erin, Catholic mama to three sweet boys: Ambrose (11/06),  Peter (3/08), and Joseph (9/10) and a sweet girl, Charlotte (7/12/12).

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#43 of 55 Old 09-05-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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In Dr. Eades' articles on calories, he said he finds that many people overeat on foods like nuts and cheese - these foods contain carbs and raise insulin. It's not that people are simply overeating calories - they are compelled to overeat because the body is reacting to the carbs, plain and simple.

If you are gaining or not losing weight you need to lose, the culprit will be found in what you eat. You do not have to count calories - just look at the foods you eat that contain carbs and realize that those are the foods that are driving your hunger. The only way to change it is to reduce the carbs. Counting calories won't work...the evidence for that is all around us.

Just my .02
Nuts and cheese are also very calorie dense. Nuts are much higher in carbs than cheese.

I don't think calories are the only thing that count. Far from it. I think carbs count the most. But, I do think calories play a role. A very complex role.

I don't think one can simply say eat all the steak and butter you want and you'll loose weight.

I also don't think you can eat 1500 calories a day of nothing but carbs and loose weight either.

I think there has to be a balance.

The OP is struggling to loose weight and I suggested to her that her calories might be high. I stand by this.

If you're trying to loose weight and you're eating clean, low carb foods yet you're not loosing, you may be eating too much.

Everything is so subjective. What works for one person doesn't always work for another. I've low carbed most of my life and I never loose weight just eating mass quantities of low carb foods. At 40 years old, I have to watch my calories as well. Maybe some people don't have to watch their calories. But, I don't think there is one single prescription for someone struggling to loose weight. It's far too complex for that - everyone's metabolism is different, how everyone responds to calories, carbs, fats etc.. is different.

The OP should try to find what works for her. If eating low carb foods with unrestricted calories works for her than fantastic! I'm thrilled for her. It would never work for me so I'm insanely jealous of those of you who don't have to watch your calories as well as carbs.

But, if she's eating low carb and the weight is not coming off, I would suggest taking a look at calories.
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#44 of 55 Old 09-06-2009, 09:44 AM
 
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I agree it is very complex, but I would look at eliminating carbs way before I would start counting calories.

For the record, I do think people can lose weight by eating nothing but meat and fat in "unlimited" quantities - the body will self-limit a diet devoid of carbs quite well. But I'm one of those crazy "zero carbers."
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#45 of 55 Old 09-06-2009, 12:07 PM
 
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I agree it is very complex, but I would look at eliminating carbs way before I would start counting calories.

For the record, I do think people can lose weight by eating nothing but meat and fat in "unlimited" quantities - the body will self-limit a diet devoid of carbs quite well. But I'm one of those crazy "zero carbers."
That's my point exactly. The OP said she was low carbing and not loosing weight. If she is low carbing - really low carbing - no cheats - a true diet based on low carb foods - and she's not loosing weight, then my suggestion to her would be to check calories.

And, I agree with you about the zero carbs - it does work. But, personally, I don't think it's healthy and it's a very difficult diet to do long term. I know atkins recommends it for metabolic resistance but even he says not to do it long term. I know there are those that do but, for someone struggling to loose weight, I don't know that extreme diets are the way to go. But, to each their own.
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#46 of 55 Old 09-06-2009, 12:40 PM
 
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I thought the original Atkins book said that everyone had to find their own level of carb intake where they could eat to satisfaction (i.e. no calorie counting) and lose weight or maintain, as the case may be. That level of carbohydrate will be different for each person, but for some people it will be less than 10 grams a day. The point was that a proper diet will not make you hungrier than you need to be, and there will be no need to count calories because counting calories implies (to me) not eating when you're hungry. But if you can count calories AND not be hungry, then that's great - that means you're eating the right level of carbohydrate for you.
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#47 of 55 Old 09-07-2009, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's my point exactly. The OP said she was low carbing and not loosing weight. If she is low carbing - really low carbing - no cheats - a true diet based on low carb foods - and she's not loosing weight, then my suggestion to her would be to check calories.
i'm finding this debate very interesting, thank you.

actually i was not low carbing before i started this thread. carb conscious in my meal choices yes, but totally sabotaging myself with deserts. for 2+ weeks after starting this thread i ate low carb. then a weekend at my inlaws followed by stomach flu and AF, i have eaten more carbs this past week. i weighed myself this morning and, despite all that, have lost 3+ lb. which is a nice prod to get me back on track with low carb.

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#48 of 55 Old 09-07-2009, 03:07 PM
 
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I thought the original Atkins book said that everyone had to find their own level of carb intake where they could eat to satisfaction (i.e. no calorie counting) and lose weight or maintain, as the case may be.
Atkins also said that calories do matter. He said that carbs matter more but, calories do play a role in weight loss.

He also said to eat until satisfied - not gorged. Again, another nod to natural calorie counting. If we eat until just satisfied, we'll eat fewer calories. Additionally, eating fats and protein will lead you to be satisfied much sooner (and on fewer calories) than eating carb laden food.
Also, this is an interesting study:
http://www.temple.edu/temple_times/3-24-05/atkins.html
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#49 of 55 Old 09-07-2009, 04:31 PM
 
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Atkins also said that calories do matter. He said that carbs matter more but, calories do play a role in weight loss.

He also said to eat until satisfied - not gorged. Again, another nod to natural calorie counting. If we eat until just satisfied, we'll eat fewer calories. Additionally, eating fats and protein will lead you to be satisfied much sooner (and on fewer calories) than eating carb laden food.
Also, this is an interesting study:
http://www.temple.edu/temple_times/3-24-05/atkins.html
I agree, and that's the whole point I was getting at - that the diet needs to be one that supplies enough energy - but not too much - AND be satisfying. If there is hunger involved in achieving a healthy weight, then there's something wrong with the content of the diet.

I would also just like to put out there that I am one of those people who has to eat less calories to lose weight when I eat carbs (and I'm hungry the whole time), but I can eat significantly more calories on a very low carb diet and still lose weight without being hungry. So in my experience, a calorie is not a calorie, and counting them won't do me any good. The only thing that works for me is to severely restrict carbs (which I think it very healthy) and listen to my body's hunger/satiety cues. No one ever said gorge yourself.

I just think its fascinating that I could eat 1800 calories of fruit, vegetables, whole grains, beans, potatoes, etc. (when I was low fat vegan), and I would be hungry all the time and not lose an ounce but would gain if I ate more. Now I'm eating at least 2400 calories a day of meat, fat, eggs, and cheese, and I am losing an average of 2 pounds a week. If the weight loss stops, the first things to go will be the cheese and eggs.

I think the book Good Calories, Bad Calories does a great job of explaining what I'm talking about.
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#50 of 55 Old 09-07-2009, 05:43 PM
 
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It sounds to me like we're arguing the same point.

I completely agree the Gary Taubes book is fantastic. And I absolutely agree that not all calories are equal.

I also agree that it's much easier to loose weight on a low carb diet - you're not hungry and you naturally eat fewer calories. A high carb diet is just a recipe for hunger and over eating.

So, it seems like we completely agree on just about everything.

Again, I repeat my only suggestion to the OP was that if she was eating low carb foods and not loosing, she may be eating too much (read: past her natural satiation point).

But, the OP has come along and said she's not really been eating low carb so, I go back to my point that it will be especially important for her to watch her calories if she's not eating low carb and not loosing.
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#51 of 55 Old 09-07-2009, 08:57 PM
 
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I think we're on the same page, too...just in a round about kind of way.
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#52 of 55 Old 09-10-2009, 10:40 AM
 
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I just want to post a link to a new video blog on the calorie issue, for anyone who might be interested. It's on a "zero carb" blog, but it definitely applies to low carbers or anyone else looking to lose weight.

http://blog.zeroinginonhealth.com/?p=1226

The video is a little rough around the edges, but the message is spot on.
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#53 of 55 Old 09-10-2009, 02:37 PM
 
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subbing, I'm loving the websites! I'm going to try cauliflower pizza tonight.
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#54 of 55 Old 09-25-2009, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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update: well after tracking my diet for a couple weeks, i got my fat % higher and my carbs lower. my sugar cravings actually went away, i found myself less hungry, and i lost a few pounds (and even before the scale moved i was getting comments). yay. but 2 weeks ago we tore into our kitchen remodel and have no stove so we have been eating tj's frozen meals or take out constantly. i've gained back the pounds i lost and my sugar cravings are back with a vengance! i'm SO discouraged. i feel yucky. and i can tell my kids feel yucky too.

next week i'm taking the kids to a camping/family reunion trip and i'm looking forward to good food again. eggs for breakfast, meat and salad for lunch. if only i can keep from eating other peoples junk. which i'm scared of since my sugar cravings are so bad right now (i ate an icecream drumstick this afternoon! ) i'm thinking i'll bake up a whole bunch of cookies to take with us. they will be much better for us than the junk that will be floating around.

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#55 of 55 Old 09-25-2009, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i originally thought we'd only be with out a stove for a week, so i just went with the premade stuff. but now i realize even after the stove is back in, then the sink will be out. so it's going to drag on for a while and i need a strategy to get us eating better! please hit me with your brilliant ideas! i have an oven, a toaster oven and a microwave available. dishes need to be kept to a minimum. but i am thinking i could broil chicken and zukes, burgers (no bun for me) with avocado, buy premade/cooked meat and sprouted bread rather than 'meals'.

mama to DS born 9/7/05, DD born 8/20/07, DS born 9/4/10 and DS born 11/26/13


Loving our chaotic, crunchy, homeschooling life!
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