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#1 of 59 Old 09-24-2009, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I can't be the only one. I would love to have a group to chat and share recipes, etc with for those of us who keep kosher and strive to eat and prepare our food in a traditional manner.

ATM I'm especially interested in how successful you all have been when doing lacto ferments with salt instead of whey. So far all I've done are kraut (unsuccessful) but I want to get into everything else.

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#2 of 59 Old 09-24-2009, 07:31 PM
 
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I can't help with the kosher part, but we're dairy-free and so all our ferments are salt-only. I found this old thread to be helpful when I was getting started...

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...ight=fermented
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#3 of 59 Old 09-24-2009, 10:56 PM
 
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I keep TF and kosher. Thank you for starting this thread. Even though I was sure there were others, I wished there were a TF and Kosher tribe.

I've never tried using whey in my ferments (because what good is a fermented veggie in a dairy meal? then I'll have some form of fermented dairy.) I keep wanting to try using the brine from a previous ferment instead of whey. For sourkraut, I've had good success with just salt. I'd be happy to discuss it more when I'm not running late. Thank you for starting this tribe!

Caroline, partner to J, post partum doula, kitchen manager, aspiring midwife, soon to be nursing student, mama to my furbaby, someday a mama to not so furry munchkins, G-d willing
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#4 of 59 Old 09-25-2009, 04:04 AM
 
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Oh cool thread!!! We're TF and keep kosher. So far, I have tried lacto-fermented pickles for the first time. They've just kinda been sitting in the fridge for a few days (they're not so great...) Using the brine from a previous ferment is a great idea! I've been making kraut by sitting it out in a big container with last, and setting heavy plates on top that draw the brine out, so that's pareve. Dh has been loving that.
It's been.. interesting to keep track of what's dairy and what's pareve! Right now I've got some apricot butter going (with whey) and some lemonade going (with whey) and everything else is pareve, pretty much.

Awesome, awesome thread!!
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#5 of 59 Old 09-25-2009, 04:06 PM
 
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I think one of the hardest things for me is trying to find good local meat that's kosher. I can't seem to do both, and I'm currently chooseing pastured local over feed lot kosher. I'd really like to have all three, and I know there are a lot of local jews who keep kosher, so I'm sure there is demand, I'm just not sure how to make it happen.

For kraut, I pound sliced cabbage and salt in a mixing bowl with a drinking glass. Then I add some more salt and some seasonings (I like juniper berries, caraway seeds and mustard seeds) to a 1 qt mason jar, and fill it with cabbage, pressing the cabbage down so it is submerged under its juices or as close to submerged as it will get. If need be, I add water to cover, and a bit more salt on top. I lid it loosely, place it on a towel (it always spills) and let it sit out until it is done fermenting (to taste) at which point I put it in the fridge. I also push it down under the liquid every oh two days. I've had a lot of sucesses so far. I don't like the taste by itself that much, but it is great with stuff (particularly rich meat and mexican food).

At work, we've done pareve lf salsa, (chopped up tomatoes, spices, and added pickle juice) and it was really good. Its a little hard to get used to effervesent salsa and pickles though lol. I'm thinking ketchup might be done in the same way, pickle or sourkraut brine instead of whey..... I've had ketchup fermented with whey, but what is the point? I only use ketchup with meat, so it sat around forever and ever not getting eaten.

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#6 of 59 Old 09-26-2009, 03:18 PM
 
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Ugh, meat. There's just not much available here! (I'm in Israel) And what is available is extraordinarily expensive!

I really want to ferment some ketchup. I like the use of using brine a lot. Gonna have to try that out. Did the fermented lemonade - delicious, by the way! - but I have to keep remembering that it's dairy!!
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#7 of 59 Old 09-26-2009, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yay!

I've never heard of fermented lemonade. I'll have to try it. I'm hoping to try rootbeer or ginergale. I've homebrewed cider and beer and wine. I want to get my hands on a scoby, especially now that I've tried kombucha, but one step at a time.

I was thinking about this over night and I realized I have done chutney and salsa, but they were sooooooo fizzy it was a major turn off. Both times I used whey, but at that time kosher meat was unavailable and we were eating mainly fish and dairy. I'm hoping to buy a flat of quart jars this week and get going on some more veggies. I had a wonderful collection of jars but we just moved, and they seemed superfluous, so I gave them away. Now I have to start over

Re: meat I hear you on wanting kosher sustainable meat. There's a coop here (NY) that's sourcing natural beef and lamb and organizing getting the animals to a shechita. It's expensive and not available year round. We don't have a chest freezer, or room for one, so ATM, I'm just doing with regular kosher meat

and tanyalopez - thanks for the link

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#8 of 59 Old 09-27-2009, 04:02 AM
 
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Yes - Thanks for the link, Tanya! I meant to say before that I need to check it out. I want to know if adding even more salt to ferments affects the taste adversely or not..?

This is the fermented lemonade that I made. It's adapted from the recipe in NT. Really yummy! I'm still not used to all of this fizziness - I was a bit surprised when it was fizzy. But it was pleasant.
I can't believe your salsa and chutney were fizzy!! Weird, huh?! I made NT's apricot butter (with whey) and wasn't quite sure what to expect. It didn't come out fizzy, though.

I really, really want to make gingerale. Dh wants to do something with kefir and ginger.

Take the bag off, Falicia! We're doing conventional meat, too. It's a bummer, but what can you do?
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#9 of 59 Old 09-27-2009, 04:12 AM
 
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I wonder, with the lemonade... could you use the brine from pickled lemons? It might taste funny, but maybe it would work (for a parve lemonade) Don't know if it would work, or if it would taste funny, but it might.

I just had my first fermentation flop. And boy was it dramatic. We came home and the whole apartment smelled terrible and our pickling cauliflowers were LITERALLY mush.


Fizzy salsa is one of those things, its tasty, but every single bite has you going "what the heck?!". Same with fizzy pickles. How can you have a fizzy pickle? I don't know but my pickles were decidedly fizzy.

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#10 of 59 Old 09-27-2009, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've just done refrigerator pickles - which were very tasty and not fizzy. In this pregnancy during the summer I was all about the sunimono - cucumber salad. Oh my. I think I made and ate gallons of that every week.

Apricot butter sounds lovely.

Do any of you eat raw butter? have you noticed that it smells.. off? Like parmesean cheese? Or is this just the butter we've been getting.....

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#11 of 59 Old 09-28-2009, 04:06 PM
 
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I wish I had raw dairy!! How was everyone's YK??
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#12 of 59 Old 09-29-2009, 02:27 AM
 
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I've never had raw butter (can't afford it. it is more than 2 times the very expensive cultured pastured butter that I get), but raw milk sometimes smells a little... different. Some brands sometimes smell quite strange if you aren't used to it.

I think I'm going to try to start a co-op or something for local, kosher, pastured meat! I'm sure there will be demand, given the local emphasis on good healthy good for the planet food, and the congregation and rabbi's emphasis on green kosher. Do you know the name of the co-op in NY? I'd like to contact them.


I had a good yk. I found services very very powerful and moving and intense, in a good way. At points difficult and painful, and yet still good. Or maybe because of that good. I did break the fast about two hours early. I made a decision in advance to go to my aunt's break fast, knowing that it would probably mean breaking my fast early, because it felt important to me to spend it with family. I was wavering when there, but was so dehydrated that I did drink water at that point(I started the fast slightly dehydrated), and decided since I'd already broken my fast, I might as well eat food as well. Still it felt like a good yom kippur.

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#13 of 59 Old 09-29-2009, 01:17 PM
 
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I keep kosher and strive for TF cooking/eating.

I'd post more but DS needs my attention now.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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#14 of 59 Old 09-29-2009, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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YK was great... services were nice. DD was mostly behaved when we were at shul. At one point, she was holding the machzor open on her palms and swaying back and forth like she was davening. It was so beautiful and darn cute

We haven't been eating raw butter here, I was only able to get it in CA. And we were in Fresno, so it was SUPER close! It's the brand you can get at WF.. me thinks. I never saw it (raw butter) in WI and I haven't run into it here in NY. I also can't seem to find pasture butter even tho we're part of a TF raw dairy co-op. Hrrm.

I just did my first batch of LF ginger carrots! Only a few skinless knuckles to report The jar is only about 1/2 - 3/4 full... and I did like y'all suggested and used extra water to cover the carrots. I can't wait to try.

I want to do keifer. I just got the Full Moon Feast CB and her keifer shake sounds taaaaaaaaaaaastey. Caroline - your boss is going to be in my neighborhood this weekend! I really want to go (she's doing a couple workshops on cooking TF) but we've already got plans. Bummer.

The name of the meat co-op is Mitzvah Meat. They are a google group and she has a website. I believe she is also an MDC mama but I can't confirm... Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Hi Ruthla!

Does anyone here do liver? Do you get yours raw and kasher it or can you buy it kashered? I want to start putting beef liver in my ground meat but I've only seen it raw (AviGlatt.com) and I'm intimidated. I suppose I could ask our local butcher if they could get it for me...

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#15 of 59 Old 09-29-2009, 04:23 PM
 
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aww that sounds so cute.

I'd love to know how to kasher liver. I eat it, but don't kasher it atm. (and only can tolerate it hidden in ground meat. its so gross as chopped liver or pate). what can I stay, I'm still only baby steps into kashrut, even though I've been doing it for a long time. probably because its harder and stranger(to me) to learn than say TF, which to me is just an easy adaptation from the cooking from scratch I learned on my mom's knee growing up.
reading about how to kasher liver doesn't make it seem less hard, but I'm sure watching someone do it would make it seem easy. I bet your butcher could get it for you (at the least unkashered) and tell you how to kasher it.

I'm sorry you won't be able to go see Jess. I'm so blessed that I get to sit in on the talks she gives to the apprentices if I want, because I learn SO much.

The keifer smoothie we do at three stone hearth is good, but honestly, keifer kind of scares me. I haven't gotten up the guts to try it plain. It smells like sour/cultured milk, and the only cultured dairy product I'll eat plain is yogurt. I can handle creme fraiche on say a blended soup, and am sort of learning to like it. but keifer and buttermilk? ugg. they gross me out. I think its related to having drank a fair bit of sour (and thus bad) pasturized milk as a kid. I got sick from it once and it always tasted so bad, which just makes scared about sour smelling milk.


You can't get any brand of pastured butter? that sucks. I'm sorry. not even say kerrygold or organic valley or a local dairy?

good luck with the carrots! I hope they turn out yummy. I made a batch (My first ferment), tried it after 3 days it was way to salty and not fermented, let it sit for a while then threw it out because I was scared of it lol. haven't done it since though I should. I've just been focusing on kraut.

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#16 of 59 Old 09-29-2009, 05:20 PM
 
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I wish I knew how to kasher liver too! We don't eat so much of it right now, only when we find it prepared. Every time someone explains to me how to kasher it, it's just long and confusing.

We occasionally find Kerrygold here (Israel) which is SOOOO exciting for us. When I see it I buy as many as I can and stock up my freezer!
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#17 of 59 Old 09-30-2009, 10:03 AM
 
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I never ferment with whey- I always just use salt. Sally Fallon says to double the salt if you omit the whey, but her recipes seem to be overly salty to begin with. You can just omit the whey in SF's recipes and you'll be fine. Sandor Katz's book Wild Fermentation is IMO a better book for veggie ferments. I don't own either one but read both from the library, and look up individual recipes online as needed.

I made the ginger carrots once. They came out delicious but I just haven't had the time to make them again. I do want to get into a routine where I always have some in the fridge and another batch brewing (or at least, make another batch when the jar in the fridge is getting empty) but I haven't yet done so. I do keep the beet kvass going like that- it's not the most tasty but it's about the only way I'm getting probiotics so I feel it's important to keep making and drinking. It's what I broke the fast on.

I haven't been fussing with fermenting dairy since I can't eat dairy anyway, and it's just too much work for something the kids may or may not eat. Anyway, it's easy enough to buy ready-made yogurt for them.

I haven't prepared liver in a while because I discovered that beef gives me just as much energy and is a lot easier to prepare. It's a lot more pricey though!

I followed the directions for kashiering liver in my Spice and Spirit cookbook, put out by Chabbad. Basically, I heat up my oven to "broil-low" (I have two broiler settings), rinse the liver, put it on my broiler pan (that I don't use for anything else), salt it, turn the liver over and salt the other side, then broil until it looks and smells done (no longer raw meat but not yet burnt.) My broiler pan is two pieces; a bottom piece that's solid and a top piece that fits inside and has holes in it, so the juices drain into the bottom secton. I also line the bottom with foil so it's easier to clean. I have a special scrub brush for the broiling pan, I don't use the regular fleishig sponge for that. I'm not sure if I have to or not, since the liver is kosher after it's broiled, but I figure "better safe than sorry."

Before I realized I owned a broiler pan, I used to make one out of aluminum foil- two pieces, one draining into the other. It wasn't as efficient or easy to use, but it worked.

If you don't have a "broil" setting on your oven, then you can't cook raw liver.

After it's been broiled (and it's OK if it's only 2/3 cooked when you're done broiling), you can sautee it or use in any other recipe. I used to fuss with the liver once every week or two (empire frozen chicken liver, 8oz box) and eat the whole thing myself as part of a liver-onion omelette, and that was breakfast AND lunch that day.

What do you ladies (and gents? any guys on this thread?) have planned for Succos recipes?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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#18 of 59 Old 09-30-2009, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's kinda refreshing to hear you don't like keifer I've never had it but it sounds so healthy, I feel like I should be drinking it. We do a lot of yogurt so maybe we get the same benefits from that?

Thanks for the info about liver, Ruth. We do have a broiler. I am hesitant to try it though, it seems like a LOT of work. Maybe I should start with chicken liver? Pate for appetizers, etc. Oh and thanks for the tip about the extra pan/sponges. I never would have thought about that...

As for Succot, that Monday DD and I are headed back to CA to hang out with my parents so I'm letting them worry about the menu This year we're not even putting out sukkah up since a) we don't have a yard, and b) we sold all the pieces before the move. And DH works all day so I feel sort of validated in not putting one up (two steps forward and three back, I guess). I really enjoyed doing it last year. It was the first time I'd ever made my own and it was so much fun to eat and entertain in the sukkah.

I wish I had read about the salt issue with Sfs recipes. I do have WF but thought I'd start with SFs recipe first. We'll see how it goes. Luckily, carrots and ginger aren't cost prohibitive.

we just made nut butter and coconut cookies. I over cooked them and they burnt on the bottom. This will NOT stop me (I mean DD ) from eating them, however.

Where do you get a pounder? I looked in our very groovy well stocked local hardware shop (they sell the entire Le Crueset line) but saw nothing... and obviously using my meat pounder would be counter productive.

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#19 of 59 Old 09-30-2009, 04:50 PM
 
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What do you need the pounder for?

When I made the ginger carrots, I just shredded the carrots in my food processor, and then mushed it with my fingers (adding in ginger and salt at this point.) I forget if I needed to add brine (salt water) or if there was enough liquid from the carrots themselves. If this is what you want the pounder for, I'd suggest going Traditional- use your hands!

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#20 of 59 Old 09-30-2009, 08:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshinestarr View Post
Yes - Thanks for the link, Tanya! I meant to say before that I need to check it out. I want to know if adding even more salt to ferments affects the taste adversely or not..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faliciagayle View Post
and tanyalopez - thanks for the link


I was going to answer, but Ruthla said exactly what I was going to.
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#21 of 59 Old 10-01-2009, 02:42 AM
 
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For a long time I didn't make ferments because of the lack of pounder. What I discovered is that your average household abounds with pounders. Got a beer or wine bottle? That will work I imagine. A heavy drinking glass is what I use for kraut. You can smush it with your hands. A pounder is easier. but really, anything will work fine. A mason jar would be good.

I think that yogurt is just as good as keifer health wise.

I'm not doing a sukkah this year either. We don't have a place to put it. We live in a third floor apartment without a balcony. I contemplated asking my parents if we could put on up in their backyard, but can't afford to drive there each day anyways. Nor to build one. We'll spend some time in the synogogue one (a song and story night I think?) and will have dinner in some friends as guests. I'm not making anything special for us at our place.

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#22 of 59 Old 10-01-2009, 09:03 AM
 
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Pounders?? What are ya'll doin'?
The first time I made kraut, I pounded and pounded and squished and it was awful.. (And then I realized I forgot to add salt). But since then, I have a new method altogether. I shred everything, leave it in a big bowl (with salt!) and stack a bunch of plates other heavy stuff on top. I just leave it like this for a few days and the brine comes out. I comes out pretty quickly, which I was surprised about. I got this idea from an MDC mom.

I'm gonna have to disagree on yogurt being as good as kefir.. I think that they're both great but kefir is like, almost magical in its healing properties. Yogurt put beneficial bacteria in you, but kefir actually re-colonizes you. Dh had/has tons of stomach problems, has for years and years, and kefir is finally solving it. We do milk and water kefir, and, like some of you here, the milk kefir scares me a bit! I've mostly just fed it to my kids. But I've started to add a teaspoon or so if I'm drinking milk.
Water kefir is awesome!! We make kefir soda and it's really not scary! I don't know why the milk kefir is and the water kefir isn't so much, but there ya go.

I'm so excited for Sukkoth!!!! Woooohoo!!!
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#23 of 59 Old 10-01-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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My ex came over yesterday to assemble the succah- and I didn't even have to ask! The past few years, he would assemble it the morning of Erev Succos, but his current job might interfere with that (driving a couple of kids to Jewish private school, and he'll do extra driving for extra money if they ask- so he can't guarantee that he WON'T spend Erev Succos in the car driving these kids to friends or relatives houses.) All that's left to do is to put on the schach and put in the table and chairs. He's afraid the schach might blow off if it's put on too soon, and that's easy enough for me, DS, DD1, and/or DD2 to assemble ourselves. The folding table is already outside but not set up, and we have random folding chairs in various places around the house.

Is anybody on this thread anywhere near me? I could invite you over for a meal, but that's sort of impractical if you're in CA or TX.

Here's my menu plan:

Friday night: chicken soup, plus "meal in a foil pan" of chicken, rice, potatoes, carrots, and celery

Saturday: cholent in a foil pan (with the oven at 250 and LOTS of water in the pan)

Saturday night: probably a turkey breast with yams, rice, and "sweet spices" in a foil pan

Sunday: we were invited out. I'll have some cold cuts, cans of tuna, and hard boiled eggs as "backup" in case I'm hungry before or after the meal at our neighbor's house. I'm not sure there will be enough for me to eat, with all my food allergies. I'll probably eat a little something before going.

I'll bake spelt challah for everybody but me, and rice challah for myself. I know this meal won't be 100% TF- I'm not making sourdough challah and I do have processed meats in the fridge as "backup food" but for the most part it's all being cooked from real food, assembled fairly simply. What's "non traditional" about roasted meat and veggies?

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#24 of 59 Old 10-01-2009, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sunshinestarr - I was just thinking about water keifer! I think I can totally groove to that. I have a serious soda problem, which I normally ignore, but it has been the one pregnancy craving I will indulge. We do Hansen's soda, so at least it's sugar and not HFCS. And I finally tried kombucha, which upon first taste I was mired in ambivalence, but I think I've come to like it. So when I come back from CA perhaps I'll order some grains and a scoby.

Ruth - I'm kinda near you - all upstate like in Westchester. Though I don't know exactly where Hogsmead is Maybe we can get together for a later Chag? Do you do sourdough spelt challah? Or regular sourdough? That sounds good. With a standard sourdough recipe? want to share?

Nothing seems to be happening with my carrots. They smell a bit lactic, so I suppose that's good. ATM I've got soaked granola baking (this is taking for*ever*) and Mexican chicken in the crock for dinner.

The cookies I made were my first adventure into coconut flour... I think it gave me an allergic reaction - my mouth and lips were itchy.

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#25 of 59 Old 10-01-2009, 02:52 PM
 
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Nah, I'm in CA. lol. thanks though.

Water keifer I'd like to try, but haven't gotten my hands on any grains. (of course lack of money to purchase any doesn't help lol).

Sourkraut takes 2+ weeks here unless it is REALLY hot, so I'd expect it just takes more time for the carrots. What is your mexican chicken and what do you do with it? it sounds yummy.

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#26 of 59 Old 10-07-2009, 10:29 PM
 
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Hey ladies,
I've been day dreaming about cassolet. Any ideas of what meat to use? (I'm thinking I'll be able to find a kosher sausage to use, and duck is fine (and yummy fatty)). but what about the bacon/salt pork/pork shoulder/ ham hocks, I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure all of these are very fatty cuts of meat. Would perhaps adding more duck in work? What other cuts are really fatty? Brisket? (or unseasoned corned beef, since many of those are salt cured?) Are there other meats which would be good for cassoulet? Any one have experience making a kosher version of cassoulet? Thanks!!

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#27 of 59 Old 10-08-2009, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've never made cassolet... there is something called Beef Fry which is essentially beef bacon, complete with nitrates! You could also add smoked paprika for extra smokey flavor, though no help in the fat department.

Good luck, let us know if you make it.


the carrots didn't work out. I used neither my hands nor other apparatus as a compressor/pounder and the carrots have some white growth over the top. Bummer.

I was given some kombucha today and holy smokes, it is goooood! way better than the stuff I got the other day. It tasted of cinnamon, I wonder how she did that?

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#28 of 59 Old 10-08-2009, 02:30 AM
 
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If its white, you can scrape it and the top layer off. Blue or green or bad smelling, not so good, but white is just fine to scrape off.

(beef fry sounds scary. what is it? lol. do they make nitrate free? well, I suppose I'll research that, maybe ask the butcher)

I'm definitely going to make it at some point, and will definitely share the results. It sounds delicious: a meat and bean long cooked stewy thing (traditionally 3 days!!), with a bread crumb crust, several types of fatty meat, and white beans (and seasonings and some mirepoix type veggies). a very traditional peasant dish that has become a traditional fine french cuisine meal which for some reason is perceived to be difficult to make.

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#29 of 59 Old 10-08-2009, 10:59 AM
 
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I haven't the foggiest idea what cassolet is. I haven't eaten pork since high school, and I wasn't really into the fancy recipes back then- bacon with eggs, or not caring what my lunch meat was made of, is about as adventurous as I got. If you share the whole recipe, I can give you some ideas. I've seen recipes for split pea soup that called for ham, and sucessfully substituted a beef bone or some hot dogs (in my kosher, pre-TF days.)

I haven't been making sourdough bread lately. I haven't done that since I went gluten-free, and I haven't tried it again since I started baking spelt challah for the rest of the family. When I baked it, I didn't really have a recipe. I'd just make a "sponge" with the sourdough starter, put half aside, then add challah ingredients (honey or sugar, eggs, oil, flour) to the starter (basically using the sponge in place of yeast and water in the dough). I never measured anything.

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#30 of 59 Old 10-08-2009, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's impressive. Even though I've been baking my own challah consistently for 2 years I am no where near being ready to "wing it" and go out without a recipe. Kudos

My babies were born at home! 09/07, 01/10, and 09/12 joy.gif

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