cod liver (A/D mercola controversy) question - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 74 Old 03-16-2010, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've just been reading through Mercola's new recommendations against CLO and the WPF's rebuttal statement. I am now thoroughly confused (as many might be when they hear 2 reputable experts having totally contradictory positions.

My question is and has been for some time: If I take one of the (non-Blue Ice) brands of CLO (Nordic naturals to be precise) which does have a stupidly low level of D after filtration BUT then I also take a vitamin D supplement with my NN CLO as well (1 TSP CLO and 4000IU supplemental D3) will that balance out the "toxic ratio" of A to D in my NN CLO?

I personally have to take a D3 supplement in the winter as we get no UV exposure here at this latitude during this time and my blood D levels are dangerously low. So I have been previously not worrying about the "recommended brands" from the WPF of CLO because I am not using CLO as my own source of D. Does this make sense? I use NN because I like their safety record as far as being pure of pollutants, plus I have a professional account with them and get many discounts and free bottles of CLO so it is financially a good thing for us to use their product.

But now since my head is spinning from reading everything this morning on Mercola/WPF's statements, I wonder if what I am doing is OK? Taking NN CLO just for the fish oil benefits of the EPA/DHA and taking a separate D3 supplement for the D.

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#2 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 09:58 AM
 
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In your situation, I think I'd be more concerned about the synthetic vitamin A in the CLO.

The way I read it, was that the danger lies in CLOs that use synthetic vitamins (like all CLOs except for Blue Ice Fermented.)

That's what really ticks me off about Mercola - he KNOWS that a CLO exists that is exempt from the 'dangers' he discusses in his article, yet HE DOESN'T MENTION IT.

Ten bucks says he posts an article about how his krill oil doesn't have these risks within the next week.

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#3 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There is no synthetic Vitamin A in Nordic Naturals. It's verified on their website, plus I double checked with 2 managers on the phone (like I said, I am professional rep for them so we can ask all the questions we want to all the right people...) They do add lanolin sourced D3 to their Cod liver D-1000 line but no synthetic vitamins are used.

That said, all my original concerns are still there. I have never switched to Blue Ice because my main overall concern RE: Cod liver oil and all fish derived oils in general is pollution, especially now with all the recent news about PCBs being found in fish oils. I'm not saying that Blue Ice is polluted, I just have not been convinced that they are not polluted, like I am with NN, who have third party testing, and post all results yearly on their website that they are free of PCBs, heavy metals, etc.

Yes, I totally agree with you about Mercola and selling his products. I bet he will now be all about krill oil. I used to like and respect him but recently I feel he put marketing over health.

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#4 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 04:59 PM
 
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There is no synthetic Vitamin A in Nordic Naturals. It's verified on their website, plus I double checked with 2 managers on the phone (like I said, I am professional rep for them so we can ask all the questions we want to all the right people...)
WHAT?? Do you have any more info on this (links, quotes from them, etc.) to share? I'd love to look into it more! I wrote to them through email a while ago about this issue and got no response.

VERY interested!!!

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#5 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 05:12 PM
 
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Found this: http://www.naturalnews.com/011853.html It's from 2005--wonder if it's all still true? If so, WOW!!!

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Nordic Naturals announced today that its products do not pose a threat because they have low and safe levels of natural Vitamin A and no synthetic Vitamin A is added to its oils.
Quote:
According to Joar Opheim, CEO of Nordic Naturals, “this concern about fish oils is founded on the fact that most fish oil companies add synthetic Vitamin A to their products. Since we have never added synthetic vitamins to our oils, consumers can feel comfortable taking our cod liver oil without fear of ingesting too much Vitamin A from this one source.” The company has recently taken a strong public stand against any measures that would require standardizing the Vitamin A levels in cod liver oil. Adds Joar, “It is common when fish species other than Arctic Cod are used, synthetic Vitamins A needs to be added back to standardize the oil as Cod Liver Oil. We have never engaged in this practice because we use only 100% Arctic Cod for our Cod Liver Oil, supplying acceptable levels of naturally occurring Vitamin A.”

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#6 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 10:23 PM
 
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Where can I read the WPF's rebuttal? I just read Mercola's article and it freaked me out. I'm about to give up on all supplements

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#7 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 10:29 PM
 
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#8 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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WHAT?? Do you have any more info on this (links, quotes from them, etc.) to share? I'd love to look into it more! I wrote to them through email a while ago about this issue and got no response.

VERY interested!!!
I'd recommend calling them. They are very nice on the phone. I was assured they do not add synthetic vitamins to any of their oils. They do add a "natural" form of D3 to some of their oils from sheep lanolin. I also read it on the website and they verified it to me as true. I have to trust they are telling the truth...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There is some concern that cod liver oil has high levels of vitamin A. This concern stems from the fact that almost all cod liver oil products on the market are supplemented with added vitamin A (natural or synthetic). This is because many cod liver oil products are not made from cod livers! Many brands use fish body oil from species such as pollock or haddock as a less expensive source of oil, and then add vitamin A and D to mimic cod liver oil. This practice is allowed because the international production of cod liver oil is regulated by only one rule—the final product must match the specific EPA ratio (EPA to DHA) found in cod liver oil. These practices are not applicable, however, to the Nordic Naturals brand, and never have been. We have always used 100% Arctic Cod Livers in our CLO formulas, which have consequently always had low, healthy levels of naturally-occurring, fat-soluble vitamin A. We have never used fish body oils or any synthetic additives of any kind in our CLO. Nordic Naturals CLO typically averages 650-1500 IU of vitamin A per serving, which falls in the low range compared to other manufacturers’ products that can contain more than 4500 IU. The recommended daily allowance of vitamin A for adults (as established by the US Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Science) is 3,000 IU for men and 2,300 IU for women.

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#9 of 74 Old 03-17-2010, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Where can I read the WPF's rebuttal? I just read Mercola's article and it freaked me out. I'm about to give up on all supplements
The rebuttal is on the WPF's website. It's easy to find. Go to Cod Liver Oil and then the link to the rebuttal is on that page. I totally agree....I'm also ready to just give up on all supplements! (Except vitamin D, though I'm sure something bad is going to come out about that too, eventually...)

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#10 of 74 Old 03-18-2010, 06:26 AM
 
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That's what really ticks me off about Mercola - he KNOWS that a CLO exists that is exempt from the 'dangers' he discusses in his article, yet HE DOESN'T MENTION IT.
I just read his article again and did not notice any distinction between natural and synthetic Vitamin A. He just discusses the retinoic acid (retinol) form of vitamin A.

In any case I do trust Dr. Mercola and I switched a long time ago to Krill Oil and have witnessed major heath improvements for both myself and my DS so I do not think that I'll ever go back to CLO.

Have suffered from migraines for years and CLO and fish oil never did any good. The moment I switched to Krill my migraines literally disappeared! Also my DS (2.5 years) used to get a cold two every winter, sometimes with persistent coughing. This is the first winter that he was totally cold-free and he has been taking Dr. Mercola's Krill Oil for Kids since early fall.

I highly recommended to everybody to give Krill Oil a try; I was sceptical myself of it for years (mainly due to the cost issue) but once I tried it I could clearly see why it's totally worth it.

But I still have my husband on CLO, it is just too expensive for all three of us to take the Krill Oil on a daily basis
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#11 of 74 Old 03-18-2010, 10:13 AM
 
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My understanding was that the synthetic vitamins were now being added *before* the CLO was reaching the companies who sell them. Dave from GP said this was why he was processing the cod livers himself, by way of fermentation.

I'm really interested in hearing how NN gets around this.

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#12 of 74 Old 03-18-2010, 04:28 PM
 
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Subbing because I still am a tiny bit concerned about taking my CLO now even though it is Blue Ice brand. And does this mean Vit A in Liver is bad and Vit A in grass fed butter?
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#13 of 74 Old 03-18-2010, 04:34 PM
 
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My understanding was that the synthetic vitamins were now being added *before* the CLO was reaching the companies who sell them. Dave from GP said this was why he was processing the cod livers himself, by way of fermentation.
This is my understanding as well, from talking with Dave and being on the Chapter Leader's list.

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#14 of 74 Old 03-19-2010, 06:30 PM
 
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This is my understanding as well, from talking with Dave and being on the Chapter Leader's list.
Mine as well.
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#15 of 74 Old 03-20-2010, 08:11 PM
 
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ugh, i've been stressing on clo since reading journal articles about pcbs being found in it.

plus the overfishing/population depletion stuff.

we take the gp stuff and it makes a HUGE difference for us all. i'm wondering if the skate oil from gp (because i totally trust that company) would fill the nutrient need?

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#16 of 74 Old 03-20-2010, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The PCBs weren't found in all brands. Google it and you can find a link of the brands tested. GP was not tested so I don't know about it. Nordic Naturals and Carlsons tested PCB free but many other brands had it...Scary.

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#17 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 12:46 AM
 
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this is all so confusing!
i'm curious about carlson's "super-d".... any thoughts?
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#18 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 12:52 AM
 
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this is all so confusing!
i'm curious about carlson's "super-d".... any thoughts?
Yeah, does anyone know about Carlson's D drops? We take the 1000 IU drops- are they synthetic?
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#19 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We take them too. They are not synthetic. They are from sheep lanolin in a base of coconut oil. Sheep lanolin--Not the most traditional "food source" but at least it is not synthesized in a lab!

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#20 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is my understanding as well, from talking with Dave and being on the Chapter Leader's list.
And while I am not saying your info is wrong--I just can't get over how a company like NN would make a point of saying no synthetics are added to their oil, then actually have them added anyway? It makes no sense and I wonder if perhaps what Dave told you might not apply to all companies, maybe most but not all?

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#21 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 01:33 AM
 
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The PCBs weren't found in all brands. Google it and you can find a link of the brands tested. GP was not tested so I don't know about it. Nordic Naturals and Carlsons tested PCB free but many other brands had it...Scary.
but my issue with it was more:

given cod liver oil has pcbs (as all northern atlantic cod do except for a few very small populations- i'll have to find the article).

how much is it processed to remove these?

how much does the processing change or damage the oils?

it wasn't just which brands process their oils enough to remove it.

eh. who needs a signature?
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#22 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 03:05 AM
 
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subbing:
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#23 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 09:28 AM
 
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Who was it that contacted Dave during that huge, long discussion we had about CLO & asked him to respond? I'd love to hear what Dave says about PCBs in his product. I could ask, but I wonder if whoever contacted him before would like to?

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#24 of 74 Old 03-21-2010, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Subbing--

I'd love to hear the answer to the GP purity question. It has always been my main reservation to doing the fermented CLO--Since it is not refined to remove toxics like other CLO's because it is fermented and a whole food (which is wonderful in itself and if we lived in a toxic free world it would surely be my preferred CLO). And also I have never read anything on their website about third party testing for heavy metals, PCBs, etc, so I felt that I couldn't be sure if it did or didn't contain them like I am with NN--KWIM? Toxics (and avoidance of them) are a huge focus in my life.

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#25 of 74 Old 03-22-2010, 12:49 PM
 
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subbing

Tina - mama to DD1 10yrs, DD2 5.5 yrs and DD3 22 mo and wifey to DH.
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#26 of 74 Old 03-23-2010, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Did anyone else make any calls yet?

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#27 of 74 Old 03-23-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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Wow......there's always something! So frustrating!!!
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#28 of 74 Old 03-23-2010, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I called again and spoke to Nanette Ruggerio who was an amazingly educated rep. SHe is very familiar with Mercola, his new recommendations, as well as WPF/NT and Green Pastures CLO.

She told me the following points to summarize:
-NN is in control of the whole production of their CLO from catch to bottle. There are never synthetics added at any point. The A (from the cod liver) is added back from the actual cod liver itself after it is put through the molecular distillation process tom remove all contaminants (which is very rigorous and results in very pure toxin free oil.) The D on the other hand gets damaged in the distillation process. So keeping with trying to make their oils as simple as possible, they do not add any D from other sources into their normal CLO product. They have an "Arctic-D" CLO which has 1000IU of D3 from sheep lanolin (which is the best source of non synthetic D) for those who want it. So the consumer can choose between the 2 CLOs. But neither have any synthetics.

She also was very familiar with Green Pastures CLO and researched it in the past (as she has read Nourishing Traditions/WPF stuff and is very interested in TF!) She had similar concerns to myself regarding how the toxins in the cod livers can be filtered out if the oil is fermented and whole food. She wrote to Dave and never heard anything back from him. She said that she feels that the FCLO would be the best choice for people if we lived 100+ years ago and did not have the ocean pollution that we have today. She would have suggested NN made a FCLO if there was a way they could still be assured that there is no contamination from heavy metals, PCBs, etc. But in this day and age purity is their biggest concern so they have to process the oil by distillation to remove contaminants.

As far as Mercola, she sent me the NN company's rebuttal statement. I haven't had time to read it yet but I will summarize it for you if anyone is still interested later!

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#29 of 74 Old 03-23-2010, 10:04 PM
 
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Well, I called again and spoke to Nanette Ruggerio who was an amazingly educated rep. SHe is very familiar with Mercola, his new recommendations, as well as WPF/NT and Green Pastures CLO.

She told me the following points to summarize:
-NN is in control of the whole production of their CLO from catch to bottle. There are never synthetics added at any point. The A (from the cod liver) is added back from the actual cod liver itself after it is put through the molecular distillation process tom remove all contaminants (which is very rigorous and results in very pure toxin free oil.) The D on the other hand gets damaged in the distillation process. So keeping with trying to make their oils as simple as possible, they do not add any D from other sources into their normal CLO product. They have an "Arctic-D" CLO which has 1000IU of D3 from sheep lanolin (which is the best source of non synthetic D) for those who want it. So the consumer can choose between the 2 CLOs. But neither have any synthetics.

She also was very familiar with Green Pastures CLO and researched it in the past (as she has read Nourishing Traditions/WPF stuff and is very interested in TF!) She had similar concerns to myself regarding how the toxins in the cod livers can be filtered out if the oil is fermented and whole food. She wrote to Dave and never heard anything back from him. She said that she feels that the FCLO would be the best choice for people if we lived 100+ years ago and did not have the ocean pollution that we have today. She would have suggested NN made a FCLO if there was a way they could still be assured that there is no contamination from heavy metals, PCBs, etc. But in this day and age purity is their biggest concern so they have to process the oil by distillation to remove contaminants.

As far as Mercola, she sent me the NN company's rebuttal statement. I haven't had time to read it yet but I will summarize it for you if anyone is still interested later!
Oh yes I'm very interested!!!!
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#30 of 74 Old 03-23-2010, 10:24 PM
 
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We take TwinLab (it's cheap), and I specifically asked about this over a year ago (if they added synthetic A or D.) The email response that I got was:
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The A & D come naturally in our Cod Liver Oil.

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