i wish sally fallon.... - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 40 Old 04-28-2010, 04:16 AM
 
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I do not agree with La Leche's dietary guidelines either but it is one thing not to agree and another to publicly attack an organisation that has such an honorable cause! It is like saying that if you eat according to La Leche's guidelines (or even you're a vegetarian) you'd be better off not breastfeeding at all!
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#32 of 40 Old 04-29-2010, 01:30 AM
 
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to be frank, there are a lot of things about Sally Fallon that irritate the crap out of me. She's quite self righteous.

I think she has a lot of good nutritional advice. But her advice on breastfeeding/formula feeding is just, well, wacky.

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#33 of 40 Old 04-29-2010, 02:09 AM
 
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Aw, I dunno... the thumbs down review of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding seemed fairly logical. LLL was recommending poor diets for lactating women, which have been shown to adversely affect breastmilk. What's the problem with saying that? The review didn't advocate formula instead, it advocated that LLL focus on improving nutrition for lactating mothers. As far as that goes, I agree with it. If the evidence does indeed show that babies do poorly on "bad" breastmilk, it's disingenuous to pretend that isn't the case out of fear that some women will choose to use formula instead of focussing their efforts on making "good" formula. It seems paternalistic - "Well, we'll keep the truth from the silly women because they might misuse that knowledge".

I'm only part way through NT - will be interested to see what she says about breastmilk. So far I do find her style a tad off-putting. For a dietary system as generally evidence-based as Traditional Foods, using words like "new-fangled" and talking about spiritual energies make the whole thing seem a bit suspect. Food doesn't nourish if we eat it without forgiveness in our hearts? Erm... oookay. I'm all for forgiveness, but I didn't see a peer-reviewed study in there, KWIM?

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#34 of 40 Old 04-29-2010, 09:57 AM
 
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But even women who have absolutely horrible diets will have their babies do better on their breastmilk than on formula. Thats a fact. Thats why people try to advocate for mothers in subsahran africa who likely have a very poor diet to breastfeed - its cheaper, its safer, and its better for babies. The stance that if you don't have a perfect/wonderful diet then you should just use formula is absolute, complete, 100% BS.

ETA: I know women who say they didn't nurse cause' they know their diets are crap and so formula fed instead. Thats bad advice. I don't care if you live on fast food - your breastmilk is *STILL* better than formula!!
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#35 of 40 Old 04-29-2010, 07:27 PM
 
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Yes, I agree... but the review WASN'T SAYING that women with poor diets should formula-feed instead. It was saying they should improve their diets!

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#36 of 40 Old 05-02-2010, 05:26 AM
 
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Just finished NT today. I see what you mean about her stance on BF. She pays it lip-service... in fact, she says the importance of breastfeeding "cannot be overemphasised" - but the thing is, she doesn't exactly try to overemphasise it! She (or her quoted authors) wax far more lyrical about foods like beet kvass than they do about breastfeeding. And the page on "what to do if you're having problems" is very cursory - it only addresses low supply, not other issues like latching, mastitis etc, and leaves out some pretty common remedies for low supply anyway. So yeah, not uber-impressed.

On the other hand, she may have felt the topic was covered in other publications, or that the sort of person reading NT would be likely to breastfeed anyway; or she could have simply been focussing on formula because providing a "recipe" for breastmilk isn't possible. So I don't think it's a terrible book, particularly when taken in combination with other books rather than as the sole source of nutritional info. Egg yolks at four months, though? That's pretty young... And she should have mentioned donor milk.

Incidentally, it's a mark of how much my perspective has changed that I no longer find the concept of homemade formula horrifying. If I couldn't breastfeed a subsequent child I'd strongly consider the WAPF formula over commercial stuff. Anyone here used it?

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#37 of 40 Old 05-02-2010, 11:14 AM
 
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Anyone here used it?
Not her formula, but my mother was told she didn't make enough milk and after I was hospitalized with dehydration from a severe reaction to formula my great-grandfather told her to put me on goats milk. Not sure if she added anything extra or if it was straight but it worked for us. So I am totally comfortable with the idea of using homemade formula if for some reason I could not bf a child.
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#38 of 40 Old 05-03-2010, 10:43 AM
 
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I love Sally Fallon and WAPF even if I don't agree with everything. They have made an amazing contribution.

I think a letter to Sally Fallon is a great idea if someone wanted to take it on. I can't imagine a group she would rather hear from. To me this is the important point:

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Originally Posted by mamadelbosque View Post
But even women who have absolutely horrible diets will have their babies do better on their breastmilk than on formula. Thats a fact. Thats why people try to advocate for mothers in subsahran africa who likely have a very poor diet to breastfeed - its cheaper, its safer, and its better for babies. The stance that if you don't have a perfect/wonderful diet then you should just use formula is absolute, complete, 100% BS.

ETA: I know women who say they didn't nurse cause' they know their diets are crap and so formula fed instead. Thats bad advice. I don't care if you live on fast food - your breastmilk is *STILL* better than formula!!
I am just starting to realize how huge the effects of maternal nutrition are on babies. And even if the mama is eating a "perfect" traditional diet it does not mean she is absorbing all the nutrients. There are so many issues in our culture that the idea of "perfect" breastmilk is ridiculous. However, there are so many protective effects of breastmilk that the idea of not breastfeeding because of diet is very harmful. Natasha Campbell McBride (who is WAPF-friendly) talks about how if a mother has bad gut bacteria (I'm sure very common), she passes it on to the baby in pregnancy. The baby gets this bad gut bacteria which sets it up for a lot of health difficulties, but gets protective antibodies in the breastmilk. When babies are weaned, they lose the protective antibodies and lots of problems start to develop. In hindsight I definitely saw this with my ds who was weaned at 4 (of course, we will never know how he would be had I not breastfed because of my poor gut health which I had no idea about at the time.)

When my daughter was born, she showed overt signs of gut issues (constipation) and I was able to clean up my diet while breastfeeding. Again, I will never know what would have happened had I weaned because of my issues, but I can imagine it would not be good.
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#39 of 40 Old 05-03-2010, 11:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
If I couldn't breastfeed a subsequent child I'd strongly consider the WAPF formula over commercial stuff. Anyone here used it?
I have. And I must say that I'm very grateful that she included those recipes in the book. My little guy got the broth-based formula when he showed he was reactive to the commercial dairy based formula when he was less than a month old. We quickly got donor milk, but in the gap between realizing he was losing weight like mad and getting the donor milk, that formula worked fairly well for us.

I will say though that I've been flamed on these boards before for discussing it's use. So while you may be comfortable with it, not every TFer is.

I'll also say that right now he is NOT on WAPF formula, he's back on commercial dairy formula (and doesn't seem to be reacting much this time). When the smell of your baby makes you retch (CLO) - that's not healthy for anyone. I've been debating making it again without the CLO, maybe adding the DHA/ARA supplement available from Baby's First instead.

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#40 of 40 Old 05-04-2010, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UrbanSimplicity View Post
Seriously, I think we should write an open letter to Sally Fallon. Rather than discouraging moms with a less-than-ideal diet from bf-ing, she should focus on encouraging them to eat better for both their babies and themselves.
It's been done before, and completely dismissed, in earnest. There are quite a few of us former chapter leaders who either left or were put out over the letter writing campaign.

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