I can't bring myself to trust Sally Fallon anymore. - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 101 Old 04-11-2011, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've checked a few facts from her book ( the easy ones to check online) and found that she is not telling the truth.

Nathan Pritikin: he did not die "in the prime of his life", he was 70 and yes he committed suicide but not because "he realized his low fat diet was not working" but because he was dying and likely painfully. And no, his low fat diet did not "help him recover from leukemia" but he had been in remission for over 20 years before it flared up again.

She also mentions that people from Okinawa eat generous amounts of pork and seafood and do all their cooking in lard. I did quite a bit of searching and found this not to be actually true. Their diet seems to be actually mostly plant based and when they eat pork they remove the fat from it. Seafood is eaten in small quantities.

 

Now, eating in moderation  fats, meat, eggs, dairy and so on seems a perfectly healthy and logical diet to me. But I can't believe a word she says anymore and I'm very disappointed. And I guess that extends to the Winston Price foundation as well. How do I know what is true or not?

And that's fine if you are young and healthy but I'd not recommend her diet or book for someone older or who already has problems.

I'm quite PO.


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#2 of 101 Old 04-11-2011, 04:55 PM
 
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I haven't heard a whole lot about her that makes me trust her science.  And her ranting seems as irrational and biased as lots of other groups with different opinions.  Why can't people just be honest and tell us the facts without having to wade through agenda pushing?

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#3 of 101 Old 04-11-2011, 05:04 PM
 
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I love TF but I am not a fan of Sally Fallon. I too believe she doesn't seem compelled to stick with the truth, just with whatever sounds good.

 

But more than anything, I'm irritated she took Weston Price's name for her agenda.


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#4 of 101 Old 04-11-2011, 05:23 PM
 
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#5 of 101 Old 04-11-2011, 05:55 PM
 
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The old saying "eat the meat and spit out the bone" is apt here.  

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#6 of 101 Old 04-11-2011, 09:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by laohaire View Post

I love TF but I am not a fan of Sally Fallon. I too believe she doesn't seem compelled to stick with the truth, just with whatever sounds good.

 

But more than anything, I'm irritated she took Weston Price's name for her agenda.



Yes to this. I've read enough about traditional diets (information coming from sources other than WAPF/Sally Fallon) to convince me that it's right for my family, but I cringe when I think that she is almost always the introduction to tf/real food that most folks get. I was really turned off by NT and the pseudo-science that Fallon promotes, but luckily I found many more resources that I trusted.

 

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#7 of 101 Old 04-11-2011, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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openpolllination, do you mind sharing your other resources? It would be nice to have good info.


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#8 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 04:39 AM
 
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I'm a big fan of Nina Planck, personally. Real Food is a fantastic book. 

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#9 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 06:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Laurienna View Post

openpolllination, do you mind sharing your other resources? It would be nice to have good info.



Yes I would love to have specific information to share on my food blog. Also I would like to find out more about it myself. I too LOVE the book Real Food.  Now I just wish she would come out with a recipe book!

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#10 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 06:16 AM
 
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I'm not a big fan of Fallon or even Planck, really.  People get blinded by ideology and it's unfortunate.  I like many aspects of TF and don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but I don't accept everything "TF authority" says out of hand.

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#11 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 07:06 AM
 
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I'm not a big fan of Fallon or even Planck, really.  People get blinded by ideology and it's unfortunate.  I like many aspects of TF and don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but I don't accept everything "TF authority" says out of hand.


Right, what really gets me is when bloggers just quote Sally Fallon as the ultimate authority on everything. Planck doesn't get quite that treatment, at least. But yeah, I do look at WAPF as *one* source of info, and try to get as many others as possible.
 

 


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#12 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 07:57 AM
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I much prefer to interpret Price's valuable work for myself and combine it with other modern nutrition knowledge, rather than rely on someone else's interpretation.  I highly recommend reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration directly, it's brilliant and in many ways not what I expected after only being exposed to it through what comes out of the WAPF (which I hope everyone knows Price had absolutely no role in creating, he died decades before it was even an idea and it was just named after him).


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#13 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 10:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Laurienna View Post

openpolllination, do you mind sharing your other resources? It would be nice to have good info.



Sure! Some books I've really liked are:

 

-Rebuild from Depression by Amanda Rose

-Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival by T.S. Wiley , (the writing style is a little chaotic - as in describing fats as a condom for carbs, haha - but there are some super interesting conclusions found in here if you dig deep and skim through some of the more out-there parts)

-Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A Price (but I do look at it with a very critical eye, because he WASN'T a doctor or a researcher and the entire book is quite racist in the fashion of early 20th century anthropology in general. There are some really amazing nuggets of truth in there, though)

-Real Food/Real Food for mother and baby by Nina Planck (my favorite intro to give to people if they know nothing about TF, because it's like a baby-steps approach)

 

Blogs that I've really appreciated:

 

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/

http://rawfoodsos.com/ - specifically her look at the China Study

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/

 

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#14 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 11:11 AM
 
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I really like the resources of the Price Pottenger Foundation (as far as I can tell not connected with WAPF - though Mary Enig does write some articles for them every once in a while) http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/whois.htm

 

(Here are their nutritional guidelines, btw: http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/DietaryGuidelines-en.htm)

 

I second Amanda Rose's work.  I have known about phytates and soaking for years, but her book finally convinced me of the importance of soaking.

 

 

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#15 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 12:34 PM
 
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 I agree with many of the WAPF ideas: whole foods, like whole milk rather than skimmed, butter rather than margarine, as well as the idea of either fermenting and or soaking beans, nuts and grains but I am careful about recommending her book as well for the reasons stated. I certainly don't consider the book or even the WAPF site  as a bible.

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#16 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 02:37 PM
 
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Apart from the questions about the validity of her facts - I am not a Fallon fan because of the militant and antagonistic tone of voice in her writing. When a friend expresses interest in TF, I refer them to Jordan Rubin's book The Maker's Diet. It is readable and fascinating. His personal journey from extremely poor health (Crohn's and IBS) to excellent health through traditional foods is intriguing. Also he mentions other aspects of our modern life that contribute to poor health  (fluorescent lights, synthetic fragrances, fluoride, lack of probiotics, etc.) I think it's a good introductory book. Then if you want to dig deeper and go into all the how-to's and find recipes, you can pick up something like NT and not be too turned off by it.

 

 

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#17 of 101 Old 04-12-2011, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all. I'm really happy I posted. I have a lot of reading to do! Thank you for the links, the books and blogs. I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't like Sally Fallon. It's a shame really. The book could have been so interesting in its own right. There is no need to lie, twist the truth or slander to make a point.


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#18 of 101 Old 04-13-2011, 08:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ltlmrs View Post

I really like the resources of the Price Pottenger Foundation (as far as I can tell not connected with WAPF - though Mary Enig does write some articles for them every once in a while) http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/whois.htm

 


 

 


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#19 of 101 Old 04-13-2011, 08:53 AM
 
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Yes I would love to have specific information to share on my food blog. Also I would like to find out more about it myself. I too LOVE the book Real Food.  Now I just wish she would come out with a recipe book!



She is currently working on a cookbook!

 


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#20 of 101 Old 04-13-2011, 09:21 AM
 
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 I agree with many of the WAPF ideas: whole foods, like whole milk rather than skimmed, butter rather than margarine, as well as the idea of either fermenting and or soaking beans, nuts and grains but I am careful about recommending her book as well for the reasons stated. I certainly don't consider the book or even the WAPF site  as a bible.



that pretty much sums it up for me. I post here because I support whole milk, butter, raw ect but I will not recommend her book even though I own it and have read it.

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#21 of 101 Old 04-13-2011, 02:57 PM
 
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I field this question constantly.  I encourage people to join PPNF instead and throw their full support behind them.  Keep going back to Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, not the WAPF.

 

I'm not into a cult of personality.  ANY personality.  I expect the advice to be solid, down to earth, and DOABLE for the average household.  Most of the real food advice given out I shake my head at and wonder if these people have ever fed kids!


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#22 of 101 Old 04-13-2011, 10:45 PM
 
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Another very interesting book about traditional diets is the "Jungle Effect" by Daphne ******, MD.

http://drdaphne.com/wordpress/writing/books/jungleeffect/

 

I like the fact that she combines the wisdom of traditional diets with the latest nutrition research, and she also includes many interesting recipes that she picked up from her travels.

 

I am also a fan of Dr Mercola's work and his support of nutritional typing. I find that it explains very well why some people have excellent health with vegetarian diets (carb types, though he does not support vegan diets) while some others do great with high fat/high protein diets (protein types).

I'm a protein type myself that's why I'm interested in WPF work.

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#23 of 101 Old 04-14-2011, 10:05 AM
 
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I'm so glad to see this thread! I read NT and hated it, and I think Sally Fallon is condescending and rude, not to mention conflating the evidence.  I have been confused, because I believe in TF, but I didn't know there were other sources out there.  I will be checking out some of these authors/links posted. Thanks!

 


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#24 of 101 Old 04-14-2011, 10:31 AM
 
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Nobody mentioned Dr. Shanahan

I think she stresses too much the beauty aspect on how nutrition is affecting our look but it's any interesting reading. I'll order now Food rules, her other book

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#25 of 101 Old 04-14-2011, 06:32 PM
 
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I think when there is alot of flak against what you believe in the hackles and one's offense side comes up. It seems over the years Sally has become more and more relaxed in her approach since her book was published in 1995. i.e WAPF 2010 press conference, podcasts on http://www.carbohydratescankill.com/the-podcast.

 

 

WAPF is not the bible. It is flawed just like everyone else and there will always be mistakes made and mistakes to be found as we all continue learning together.

 

Sometimes there are pits in the cherry pie, spit them out and dont let it stop you from enjoying the pie.

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#26 of 101 Old 04-14-2011, 07:43 PM
 
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Quote:

I much prefer to interpret Price's valuable work for myself and combine it with other modern nutrition knowledge, rather than rely on someone else's interpretation.  I highly recommend reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration directly, it's brilliant...

 

I totally agree with this. I checked out Nutrition and Physical Degeneration from the library and read it like a novel. It was fascinating and rang true to me at many points. My husband bought Nourishing Traditions from which we have both read bits and pieces. He really likes it, but I don't really. I don't know a whole lot about Sally Fallon, but I find many of the recipes to be extreme and I'm not convinced we would be better off health-wise. We are currently trying to find a happy medium.nut.gif

 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the other resources. I am always looking to learn more!

 

p.s. sorry about the way I quoted this, I think I just figured out how I should have quoted the post by AJP

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#27 of 101 Old 04-15-2011, 08:42 AM
 
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Hmmm, I'm confused now about the reason why we shouldn't trust anyting written by WAPF or Sally Fallon. Besides the first few points by the OP, what else have these people lied about? I have both NT and Price's work and reading them I have not found they contradict each other a whole lot. Fallon is just more of a sensational type writer, very entertaining. Price is more to the point. I do not find Price racist at all. He wrote in a time when eugenics was at its peak of fashionability, with all the terminology used at the time. While most other experts were claiming that eugenics had to do with genes alone, Price claimed that nutrition was the base for healthy reproduction, not racial traits. In some references that he makes that may come across as racist, he's speaking directly to these believers in eugenics. At least, it's what I have come to believe after doing a lot of research on this subject.

 

What sources tell us that the people of Okinawa do not eat fatty pork, and that they have never done so in the past either? I feel that in most cases, we never would know what the real truth is unless we went out there ourselves to find it with our own eyes. I've never checked out sources myself, as in reading entire research papers. Just kind of trusted that the authors did not twist the writings in papers quoted. Please give me some links to the sources you've found so I can double-check myself. While I assume all of you are writing from some place of certainty in knowing, it must go beyond just a gut instinct or simply trusting another authority more than WAPF or Fallon, for me to take it seriously.  

 

And how do I know that PPNF tells more truth than lies?

 

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#28 of 101 Old 04-15-2011, 08:02 PM
 
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Yes to many of the things posted here.  I really think TF is one of the healthiest ways of eating, partly because of its emphasis on local, whole, unprocessed foods.  However, I am not impressed with many of the things Sally Fallon says, including, but not limited to, the poor advice regarding breastfeeding.  I also feel like there is so much more to TF than just a heavy meat-based diet, which is not the impression you get when you read the book.  I'm also glad to see some other resources about this topic.  Taedareth, I also like Jordin Rubin and TMD; it's a nice intro to TF as a lifestyle change.

 

 

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#29 of 101 Old 04-15-2011, 08:09 PM
 
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Yes, I get very frustrated when people (wrongly) denigrate a TF diet because they assume it must be high protein.  I've found several blog posts recently by different people who have said 'TF didn't work for me' but when you examine what they actually did, you see they combined TF with another idea like low-carb or high-protein and they didn't listen to their own body and so it wasn't a good experience for them.  TF is about preparation methods and doesn't give a set percentages of carbs, proteins and fats for everyone.


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#30 of 101 Old 04-16-2011, 12:19 PM
 
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I know many don't agree with me but I think Fallon's breastfeeding advice is solid, as far as nutrition goes. I wish more people were courageous enough to say what needs to be said. Quality of breastmilk will be affected by what a mother eats and there's no way around that. Most people within TF will agree that the meat and milk from animals eating a 'proper' diet has an entirely different nutrient composition than the products from factory farmed animals. Yes, it can be a downer to know that the milk you're giving your child may not be of the best quality, but in my life as a parent there have been so many moments like that, tearing me apart, I've eventually had to come to accept that being responsible for a child's health is really friggin hard. I still crave the truth though, regardless of how heavy it can make me feel when I'm not able to live up to those standards.

 

 

 

  

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