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#61 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 01:12 PM
 
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OK so I have a question here.  This forum is fascinating.  I am a HUGE foody and have totally changed our diets in the course of 4 years.  At any rate...is that primal diet (from what I understand it to be, lots of meat, saturated fat etc and limited carbs/breads etc) similar to following the WAP guidelines?  We do eat fruit, loads of veggies, loads of meat and loads of butter, lard, coconut products and some grains that have been soaked and sprouted - they are also mostly GF.  Not the crap in the store though - homemade.  We also do a lot of bone broth.  Is that a primal type diet??  I just don't see the difference between WAP guidelines and primal and or paleo diets.

Any one care to clarify??  Are we primal(y)? lol


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#62 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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So happy to find this thread!

 

I've been Primal for 9 months and am a regular on Mark's Daily Apple Forum. 

 

I eat a lot of grass-finished beef and lamb and some free-range chicken, eggs, goat's kefir, cheese of all kinds (prefer raw) and lots of spinach, cabbage and chard, some dark chocolate and a tiny bit of fruit (I have fructose malabsorption--a genetic trait, apparently!)

 

I work as a Pregnancy Coach and was asked to write a guest blog post on Primal Pregnancy.  The link will be active tomorrow morning, 10 am EST.

 

Here's the link:

http://www.primaltoad.com/primal-pregnancy/


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#63 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 02:54 PM
 
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OK so I have a question here.  This forum is fascinating.  I am a HUGE foody and have totally changed our diets in the course of 4 years.  At any rate...is that primal diet (from what I understand it to be, lots of meat, saturated fat etc and limited carbs/breads etc) similar to following the WAP guidelines?  We do eat fruit, loads of veggies, loads of meat and loads of butter, lard, coconut products and some grains that have been soaked and sprouted - they are also mostly GF.  Not the crap in the store though - homemade.  We also do a lot of bone broth.  Is that a primal type diet??  I just don't see the difference between WAP guidelines and primal and or paleo diets.

Any one care to clarify??  Are we primal(y)? lol

 

Primal is basically a WAP diet without grains or legumes.  I was a WAP-er for 2 years, but dropping the grains (esp gluten) really improved my health on all levels.  I dropped 15 lbs of body fat as well!
 

 


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#64 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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 Here are a few helpful links:

 

Primal Blueprint 101

 

Why grains are unhealthy.

 

Where to find grass-fed/finished meat, free-range eggs, pastured dairy:

Eat Wild


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#65 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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Organicviolin - there are definitely a lot of similarities as you noted between paleo, primal, and WAP dietary guidelines. I am going to describe them as I understand, for myself as much as anyone as I've been reading about them for awhile, but just finally starting to dive in and actually make the big shift away from grains. They all recommend eating pastured, naturally fed meat. The initial Paleo Diet author, was very big on eating only lean meats and avoiding saturated fats as well as all dairy. He also in his original book at least allows for some diet soda. Ick! He also says no to all grains, legumes, salt, yeast, processed sugar, and starchy root veggies. His student who wrote the Paleo Solution, Robb Wolf, has updated the guidelines to include good fats such as coconut oils, some butter, no artificial sweeteners, sweet potatoes for some, and probably a few others I can't recall. But still not too big on dairy. Primal Diet by Mark Sisson is much closer to the updated Paleo one, emphasizing consumption of healthy fats, including eggs, coconut oil, and some grass fed dairy for those who tolerate. Primal also focuses on it being a lifestyle rather than a diet. Both are big on eating lots of fresh veggies and fruit. WAP and Sally Fallon recommend some of the same. The biggest difference is the inclusion of soaked and/or sprouted grains. While Paleo/primal say even soaked our bodies are not meant to eat them, whole grains are generally recommended when properly prepared. They also emphasize consumption of grass fed dairy, especially cultured, whereas primal more allows it in moderation and still thinks it is a bit "iffy". Were we really catching wild animals and milking them in Paleo times?? Probably not. But as we do start out our lives consuming human milk is it likely okay in moderation for most? I think that's what the primal followers think. WAP is more into fermenting foods and making bone broths. Paleo/primal are both good with it too, just doesn't seem to be discussed as much in their books and sites. Anyone else want to chime in? Am I missing anything?

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#66 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 03:32 PM
 
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Mom&BabyChiro~ Sounds mostly right on to me!

 

Soaking/fermenting does nothing to reduce the worst culprit in some grains: gluten.  Phytates are reduced but not eliminated by soaking/sprouting.  All the nutrition in grains is easily gotten through meat, organ meats, gelatin and bone broths.

 

Personally, I find my life HUGELY simplified by eliminating grains from my daily diet.  I will (on occasion) eat a few corn tortillas or some white rice when eating out, but we no longer need our oven (except to bake bacon, lol!) and most of our meals take about 5-10 min to prepare.

 

In my Primal community experience dairy is only "iffy" for those who are lactose intolerant or who have an allergy/inflammation reaction to it. 

 


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#67 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 03:39 PM
 
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I forgot to say how excited I was to find this thread today from the MDC newsletter! I am finally ready to dive in and give this a try. Thought about it a few times the past couple of years, but with my husband thinking he couldn't survive without whole grains at every meal, never followed through. Now he's been doing crossfit for awhile and enough people talked about Paleo/primal he started reading. And it's really hard to argue with. Halfway through the Paleo solution and he hasn't touched grains for 4 days. Now to come up with food we can regularly eat for b,l, and d. I will explore some other recommended sites, but am specifically looking for ideas for my almost 2 year old. He still prefers breastmilk to food a lot of the time and loves meat. On the go snack suggestions for when we're not at home would be great.

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#68 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 05:03 PM
 
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Hi!  Subbing.  I've been toying with going primal for the whole family for a while.  I've been following the SCD, so it would be a smooth transition for me, and the rest of the gang is gluten-free too.  My DH, on the other hand, thinks he will die without rolled oats and all of their incarnations!  I'm hoping once he sees how well the kids and I are doing, he'll jump on the boat with us!


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#69 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Our snacks when home or out for the babe is always fresh fruits or vegs. Some days I will pack some almond butter as well to use as a dip. DD's faves are blueberries so we always have them on hand. I don't limit her fruit though.
 

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I forgot to say how excited I was to find this thread today from the MDC newsletter! I am finally ready to dive in and give this a try. Thought about it a few times the past couple of years, but with my husband thinking he couldn't survive without whole grains at every meal, never followed through. Now he's been doing crossfit for awhile and enough people talked about Paleo/primal he started reading. And it's really hard to argue with. Halfway through the Paleo solution and he hasn't touched grains for 4 days. Now to come up with food we can regularly eat for b,l, and d. I will explore some other recommended sites, but am specifically looking for ideas for my almost 2 year old. He still prefers breastmilk to food a lot of the time and loves meat. On the go snack suggestions for when we're not at home would be great.

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#70 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So I found some "wild caught" whiting fish at walmart today...5lbs for $12. They are slim fillets but totally worth it. I made some for lunch sauteed in baby spinach and garlic, then squeezed a bit of lemon over it all YUM.

 

I am totally finding it is WAY easier to prepare meals primal style! I can just saute it all up in no time!


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#71 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 05:53 PM
 
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 On the go snack suggestions for when we're not at home would be great

 

Cheese slices, cooked meat chunks (kept in a cooler, leftover steak is so yummy cold!), avocado 1/2s with a spoon...and fruit, of course!


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#72 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 07:27 PM
 
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very cool stuff.  I find some things interesting is that I've just naturally been cooking fewer grains....Dunno if it's because it's 90+ degrees or what. What health benefits have you noted being grain free??  What have you healed from?

 


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#73 of 446 Old 08-02-2011, 09:49 PM
 
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very cool stuff.  I find some things interesting is that I've just naturally been cooking fewer grains....Dunno if it's because it's 90+ degrees or what. What health benefits have you noted being grain free??  What have you healed from?

 

Constant bloating and loose stools are now a thing of the past. 

My chronic eczema disappeared. 

No more snoring!

I dropped 15 lbs of body fat easily and painlessly over 4 months.
 

 


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#74 of 446 Old 08-03-2011, 01:58 PM
 
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I started eating primal because I had so many food allergies. I started GAPS and went off of it after a few months. It was really difficult because I was the only one eating this way. However, we've just started eating primal as a family. My son has some behavioral issues and a friend has noticed marked improvement in her son (same behavioral issues) since switching to this way of eating. I love the weight-loss side effect :). I also love how much better I feel when I'm eating this way. Glad to find other families eating like this.


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#75 of 446 Old 08-03-2011, 02:03 PM
 
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For snacks we usually bring along rare steak, chopped up with some ferments in a jar - yesterday it was pickles & steak at the pool. We bring cheese for a snack a lot too. I reeeeaally try to stay away from fruits because I really believe it comes down to insulin/blood sugar. The more pure our diet of meats, fats & non-starchy veggies, the more balanced we are and less hungry in between meals. Sugar is sugar and to the body, grains, starches & sugary fruits have the same effect. I'm not that hardcore so we've been having berries lately because they're in season (OUR season) and we've been having some peaches from our tree - but I do think the peaches are throwing the kids off. In a month the local apples will start rolling in and I'll try to serve them as applesauce or baked (with coconut oil, cinnamon & nutmeg - with hand-whipped cream on top!!) Serving the berries/peaches/apples with cream definitely helps with insulin release (which isn't as good as avoiding them altogether, but it helps.)


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#76 of 446 Old 08-03-2011, 08:03 PM
 
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This is all very interesting to me!

Question (if this was answered previously, I missed it) -

Are primal families spending more money on groceries?

We eat fairly 'primal', but when we're scraping the bottom of the jar out comes a loaf of bread and the peanut butter (or something equally starchy and lifeless). irked.gif


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#77 of 446 Old 08-03-2011, 09:43 PM
 
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For snacks we usually bring along rare steak, chopped up with some ferments in a jar - yesterday it was pickles & steak at the pool. We bring cheese for a snack a lot too. I reeeeaally try to stay away from fruits because I really believe it comes down to insulin/blood sugar. The more pure our diet of meats, fats & non-starchy veggies, the more balanced we are and less hungry in between meals. Sugar is sugar and to the body, grains, starches & sugary fruits have the same effect. I'm not that hardcore so we've been having berries lately because they're in season (OUR season) and we've been having some peaches from our tree - but I do think the peaches are throwing the kids off. In a month the local apples will start rolling in and I'll try to serve them as applesauce or baked (with coconut oil, cinnamon & nutmeg - with hand-whipped cream on top!!) Serving the berries/peaches/apples with cream definitely helps with insulin release (which isn't as good as avoiding them altogether, but it helps.)


i agree with this, i try to serve fruit with some kind of protein or fat.

 


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#78 of 446 Old 08-03-2011, 09:47 PM
 
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This is all very interesting to me!

Question (if this was answered previously, I missed it) -

Are primal families spending more money on groceries?

We eat fairly 'primal', but when we're scraping the bottom of the jar out comes a loaf of bread and the peanut butter (or something equally starchy and lifeless). irked.gif



i say yes and no, i buy less easy to prep/box foods so we save money. but at the same time, grass fed meats and organics can get pricey. i find that it is an all over win because i eat less food. kind of similar with my cat, when he eats the high grain cheap food he is whining at his bowl at least 3 times day! when i buy the high quality (only meat) food he eats once a day and his bms are not horrific smelling and way smaller/more dense. sorry to go off topic but i noticed the similarity recently and i am giving the cheapy cat food away!


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#79 of 446 Old 08-04-2011, 06:52 AM
 
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Thanks lookatreestar,

Your answer makes sense to me. I hope one day DH will get on board and we can try this out fereal!


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#80 of 446 Old 08-04-2011, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We have managed to stay in the same budget.

 

We are dairy free so cheese or other animal BM products are off limits. DD won't eat much meat yet. I want to venture into jerky and see how she does. I try and do almond butter with it. there isn't too much I can do about it all right now and I think fruit is better than a more simple carb (like a cracker or something) no?

 

Anyways I have been stalking MDA and I noticed he always says "lean meat" I thought we were suppose to be eating more animal fats? I mean our ground beef is like 85% lean and everything else is pretty trimmed anyways (just b/c it comes like that) but I do go for dark meat chicken instead of breasts or something. Besides I thought more fat was good? Did I misinterpret something from the start?

 

Lost 2 more lbs btw!

 

I am having serious trouble kicking coffee! I can't use heavy cream b/c of DD's allergy and since I use coconut creamer (and think it tastes kinda gross in my coffee) I get mocha iced coffee. (which I know is horrible for me!) I feel like a total addict! It's basically that or nothing for coffee but for some reason I feel like I can't *just* drink water all day....

 

Any tips for me?


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#81 of 446 Old 08-04-2011, 08:42 AM
 
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I second the pureeing idea. I make "green soup" for myself every week or so in large quantities, then freeze and eat for breakfast daily, and sometimes lunch. :-) DD, 1 1/2, has gobbled it down with me before, but isn't currently going for it. If you add parsnips and/or carrots (I don't, because I'm dealing with candida) and make the soup thick, it becomes what I call "paleo porridge," and with some fats added after it's in the bowl (I'm lucky enough to be able to make raw butter sometimes), and some sea salt, it's just about the best thing ever, imho. It also helps to include a fair bit of "white" veggies in season: summer squash, cauliflower, etc. which gives it a smoother, sort of satiny texture. Also, one sweet bell pepper in the mix adds a really lovely taste dimension.

 

There's no way to tell there's stock in there, because it's just thick veggie puree. BTW, I'll use any kind of stock I have on hand - just throw some frozen cubes of it in the pot with the veggies - I've used duck stock (yum!), chicken, rabbit, whatever you got!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepfeet View Post

This is all very interesting to me!

Question (if this was answered previously, I missed it) -

Are primal families spending more money on groceries?

We eat fairly 'primal', but when we're scraping the bottom of the jar out comes a loaf of bread and the peanut butter (or something equally starchy and lifeless). irked.gif


I don't think we spend more. We buy a beef share every month and we join our CSA every season, so I really only need to buy veggies in the winter, but I ferment sooooooo much from the CSA during the summer that it gets us through the winter and then some. Also, if you have the space, make a garden!! Kale, collards, arugula, etc often last well into the fall/winter. Even better, if you can have chickens - get some!!
 

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I second the pureeing idea. I make "green soup" for myself every week or so in large quantities, then freeze and eat for breakfast daily, and sometimes lunch. :-) DD, 1 1/2, has gobbled it down with me before, but isn't currently going for it. If you add parsnips and/or carrots (I don't, because I'm dealing with candida) and make the soup thick, it becomes what I call "paleo porridge," and with some fats added after it's in the bowl (I'm lucky enough to be able to make raw butter sometimes), and some sea salt, it's just about the best thing ever, imho. It also helps to include a fair bit of "white" veggies in season: summer squash, cauliflower, etc. which gives it a smoother, sort of satiny texture. Also, one sweet bell pepper in the mix adds a really lovely taste dimension.

 

There's no way to tell there's stock in there, because it's just thick veggie puree. BTW, I'll use any kind of stock I have on hand - just throw some frozen cubes of it in the pot with the veggies - I've used duck stock (yum!), chicken, rabbit, whatever you got!


My favorite part about it is that I can stuff SO much sea veggie in there!!

 


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#83 of 446 Old 08-04-2011, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So do you guys eat sausage? MDA said sausage is out but what if there is no nitrates and it is only pork and spices?

 

I saw the thing about ground beef being out too but really if it is ground beef from my CSA do you think it's that bad? I have to eat it b/c they won't let you request anything at our CSA...


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#84 of 446 Old 08-04-2011, 03:04 PM
 
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Anyways I have been stalking MDA and I noticed he always says "lean meat" I thought we were suppose to be eating more animal fats? I mean our ground beef is like 85% lean and everything else is pretty trimmed anyways (just b/c it comes like that) but I do go for dark meat chicken instead of breasts or something. Besides I thought more fat was good? Did I misinterpret something from the start?

 

Huh?  I always go for fatty meat--from clean sources, of course!

 

I don't know abou the lean meat part--unless you are looking at very early blog posts.  Mark is definitely. friends with saturated fats, so far as I know!  The only reason to get lean meat is if you can only afford conventionally raised meat & want to avoid the worst of the antibiotics/hormones, which tend to end up in the fat of the animals.

 

Quote:

 

So do you guys eat sausage? MDA said sausage is out but what if there is no nitrates and it is only pork and spices?

 

For sure I eat natural sausage & nitrate-free bacon.  What are you reading?  It doesn't sound like the MDA I've read--but then, I lent my book to a friend before I finished reading it, lol!

 


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#85 of 446 Old 08-04-2011, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This was all from his site.

 

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/bad-meats/

 

Oh I did just find this though: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/lean-meat/ which is basically what you said, lean meat if it's conventional

 

 


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#86 of 446 Old 08-05-2011, 01:09 AM
 
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Hmmm, Interesting!  Never read either of these.

 

Both posts are from 2008 and I have noticed that he does change the information (in newer posts) he shares as he gets more up-to-date info. 

 

I think his fears about processed meat in the "5 Meats to avoid" post are really focused on conventionally-raised and processed meat--rather than sustainably-raised and minimally processed grass-finished/pastured meat.


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#87 of 446 Old 08-05-2011, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OIC so he had originally thought that but as long as it's natural and pastured it's OK?

 

Also wanted to say that if you do eat fully conventional meat MDA does say it's important for it to be lean b/c most of the bad stuff will be in the fat of the animal. (I just read that recently and thought I would mention it) and if you don't live in the US (maybe add a couple more countries IDK?) there is a good chance your meat is pastured anyway so you don't have to go searching for it.


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From the MDA link above:

Quote:
We love bacon as much as the next guy or gal, but we definitely recommend going for the uncured variety. Nitrites are a sketchy lot. Included in everything from bacon to most lunch meat, sausages and hot dogs (are we really calling those a food still?), they act as preservatives and color enhancers.

 

I can get bacon, sausages & hotdogs directly from my farmer & they're nitrate/nitrite-free & sooo delicious. I know our local supermarket sells uncured lunch meat, but that doesn't mean it's free of listeria or GMOs (in the feed.)

 

We LOVE bacon, sausage, scrapple,ham, pork hot dogs, pork shoulder........

 

Quote:
Ground meats, as we’ve said in the past, usually end up being a hodge-podge of flesh from hundreds of carcasses.

 

Not if you order a cow share directly from your local organic farmer. I'm not worried about E. coli in my 100% grass-fed beef.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metasequoia View Post

 

Not if you order a cow share directly from your local organic farmer. I'm not worried about E. coli in my 100% grass-fed beef.


Me either!

 


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#90 of 446 Old 08-06-2011, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's good to know! Our CSA is grass-fed so I have nothing to worry about!

 

DD and I went for a 4 mile hike (with her on my back in a didy wrap) and it was quite a workout for me! She loves every minute of BWing so she was happy as a clam looking at the birds and insects etc.

 

We stopped at DD's on the way and I got a cheese free breakfast sandwich and it happened again...(TMI) my body rejected the croissant I ate....Do you think I may have an actual gluten/wheat intolerance or do you think it's just b/c we went primal? Does that happen to you guys?

 

Also anyone that likes golumpkis will love this recipe I made the other day. I call it golumpki stir fry! (I make a lot so we can have leftovers too so my guess would be this recipe would be good for a family of 5)

 

1lb ground pork

1lb ground beef

1/2 or 1 small head of green cabbage

1/2 or 1 small head of red cabbage (or you could just do green)

1/2 of a large sweet onion

4 cloves of garlic

1 can of diced tomatoes with 1/2 the juice drained

marjoram to taste

salt to taste

pepper to taste

 

Basically all I did for prep was chop up the vegs

 

I used a SS wok and sauteed the onion until it was clear then added the garlic and the meat cooked that about 5 mins then added the spices and cabbage and tomatoes then cook it until it's all done! The family loved it and it was easier and quicker than making the real thing.

 


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